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  1. #1
    Are u haleloo ya ? Telstra's Avatar
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    Your prediction about the US finances and its debt ??

    .
    What is the US debt at this moment ?
    And can the US pay back the debt ?

    Describe the world economy in the future ....


    NEVER LISTEN TO A ONE SIDED STORY AND JUDGE.

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    Re: Your prediction about the US finances and its debt ??

    i think you have been watching too much television.


  3. #3
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    Re: Your prediction about the US finances and its debt ??

    All will be well Telly.

    All will work out.

    If we go down the world's going with us.

  4. #4
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    Re: Your prediction about the US finances and its debt ??

    I hope it doesn't happen until after the ND Bama game

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    Re: Your prediction about the US finances and its debt ??

    Telly

    Check the Mayan Calendar.

    All will be clear.

  6. #6

    Re: Your prediction about the US finances and its debt ??

    If you live in Australia, I'd be more concerned by the impending property bubble collapse.

  7. #7
    Are u haleloo ya ? Telstra's Avatar
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    Re: Your prediction about the US finances and its debt ??

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    Telly

    Check the Mayan Calendar.

    All will be clear.
    lol ......................


    NEVER LISTEN TO A ONE SIDED STORY AND JUDGE.

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    Re: Your prediction about the US finances and its debt ??

    I 'fink de impendin' crisese wull find a way of bein the dog's bollocks agin....
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  9. #9
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    Re: Your prediction about the US finances and its debt ??

    Quote Originally Posted by EastMed View Post
    If you live in Australia, I'd be more concerned by the impending property bubble collapse.
    At least from what I read in the Economist, Australia weathered the recent recession by mining "resources" (coal, iron and various minerals) and shipping them to China. However, China's economy is slowing down and left Australia with depressed prices and an abundant supply with said minerals which has a cascading affect.

  10. #10
    Do I dare to eat a peach?
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    Re: Your prediction about the US finances and its debt ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Telstra View Post
    .
    What is the US debt at this moment ?
    As of Tuesday, 11/27, the debt was US$16,315,984,269,811.12. Each citizen owes US$51,969.47. Piece of cake. Move on.

  11. #11
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    Re: Your prediction about the US finances and its debt ??

    Quote Originally Posted by EastMed View Post
    If you live in Australia, I'd be more concerned by the impending property bubble collapse.
    I can say the young people in Australia are happy that the censorship on videogame violence/blood lifts come January.

    Sorry, relevant to nothing.

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    Re: Your prediction about the US finances and its debt ??

    Do you accept a check or does it need to be a money order?
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  13. #13
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    Re: Your prediction about the US finances and its debt ??

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    Do you accept a check or does it need to be a money order?
    It can be paid in blood only. That or pyramid-building levee labor.

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    JUB Addict maxpowr9's Avatar
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    Re: Your prediction about the US finances and its debt ??

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    I can say the young people in Australia are happy that the censorship on videogame violence/blood lifts come January.

    Sorry, relevant to nothing.
    Now you just need start selling alcohol at the Chemist and you can be Americans too!

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    Re: Your prediction about the US finances and its debt ??

    Quote Originally Posted by maxpowr9 View Post
    Now you just need start selling alcohol at the Chemist and you can be Americans too!
    LOL, I'm American but I'm a gamer which means that I'm used to seeing as the top question in any videogame forum or discussion whatsoever: "Help, I'm Australian, how can I get an American/Euro copy of this game instead of this horrible Mister Rogers version when confetti comes off people when you shoot them instead of blood?"

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    Re: Your prediction about the US finances and its debt ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Telstra View Post
    What is the US debt at this moment ?
    http://www.usdebtclock.org


    Quote Originally Posted by Telstra View Post
    And can the US pay back the debt ?
    The reality is that much of the US debt will never need to be repaid.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/02/op...ands-debt.html


    Quote Originally Posted by Telstra View Post
    Describe the world economy in the future ....
    Unlikely we will see massive changes in our lifetime.

  17. #17
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    Re: Your prediction about the US finances and its debt ??

    The numbers will continue to be too large for most people to grasp for at least another fifty years.

    It's possible, but unlikely to happen, for the US to actually pay off the debt in that time. It would be very helpful if we at least paid off the foreign debt.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  18. #18
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    Re: Your prediction about the US finances and its debt ??

    What Congress has done, Congress can undo. There is no "cliff".

  19. #19
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    Re: Your prediction about the US finances and its debt ??

    Just to give a rundown of the top 5 holders of US debt (at the end of 2011). The numbers are from the St. Louis fed but the tidbits are my own...

    1. Federal Reserve - $6.328 trillion. A lot of economists have a gripe with this since their holdings have nearly sextupled since 2000 (the chart below explains why).

    2. China - $1.132 trillion. Funnily enough, this number has been trending down but countries' holdings tend to fluctuate as a form of pegging.

    3. Private Holdings - $1.107 trillion. This is your Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, Barclay's and other similar finance companies.

    4. Japan - $1.038 trillion. This number is outdated as Japan will supposedly pass China this year as the #2 debt holder. I believe they bought something like $300billion this year alone.

    5. Pensioners - $842.2 billion. Thrift Savings Plan (TSP): G-Fund is all that money. If you're a government employee, you know what this is.
    ---

    Courtesy of the US Fed, this our Debt:GDP ratio chart over the past 60 years...


  20. #20
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    Re: Your prediction about the US finances and its debt ??

    Quote Originally Posted by maxpowr9 View Post
    Just to give a rundown of the top 5 holders of US debt (at the end of 2011). The numbers are from the St. Louis fed but the tidbits are my own...

    1. Federal Reserve - $6.328 trillion. A lot of economists have a gripe with this since their holdings have nearly sextupled since 2000 (the chart below explains why).

    2. China - $1.132 trillion. Funnily enough, this number has been trending down but countries' holdings tend to fluctuate as a form of pegging.

    3. Private Holdings - $1.107 trillion. This is your Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, Barclay's and other similar finance companies.

    4. Japan - $1.038 trillion. This number is outdated as Japan will supposedly pass China this year as the #2 debt holder. I believe they bought something like $300billion this year alone.

    5. Pensioners - $842.2 billion. Thrift Savings Plan (TSP): G-Fund is all that money. If you're a government employee, you know what this is.
    ---

    Courtesy of the US Fed, this our Debt:GDP ratio chart over the past 60 years...

    Where do all the IOUs in the Social Security fund fit in?

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  21. #21
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Your prediction about the US finances and its debt ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Where do all the IOUs in the Social Security fund fit in?
    I used to believe the IOU lie but it isn't the cause of the defunct SS in 25 years.... the problem is the income of the bottom has been so eroded over the last 20 years that there isnt enough money at the bottom to pay Social Security.

    This is just another net effect of trickle up economics.

    Since the 1980s, the share of covered workers below the taxable earnings base has remained relatively stable at roughly 94%. However, the share of covered earnings that are taxed has fallen from 90% of all earnings in 1982 to 83% in 2007. The large declines in the late 1990s were mainly because salaries for top earners grew faster than the pay of workers below the cap.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  22. #22
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    Re: Your prediction about the US finances and its debt ??

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    I used to believe the IOU lie but it isn't the cause of the defunct SS in 25 years.... the problem is the income of the bottom has been so eroded over the last 20 years that there isnt enough money at the bottom to pay Social Security.

    This is just another net effect of trickle up economics.
    You're claiming there are no IOUs in the Trust Fund?

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  23. #23
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    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  24. #24
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    Re: Your prediction about the US finances and its debt ??

    Taxes will go up for America's most wealthy but they will find new loopholes or bribe the taxation authority...as usual.

  25. #25
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    Re: Your prediction about the US finances and its debt ??

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    Not that I am aware of.... you have to understand it is all made up anyways... no actual cash exist that is sitting in a stack somewhere called Social Security. The fund invested by buying bonds so we are in debt to ourselves as it were but the funds invested were surplus to what was currently needed.



    If we default on that then we default on everything else and Social Security wont matter anyways...
    So there is a stack of IOUs in the "Trust Fund" -- call them "bonds" or whatever, it means IOUs.

    So my question was, where does that sit in the listing of US debt? Whether we owe it to ourselves isn't relevant; it's still debt and can't be ignored.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  26. #26
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    Re: Your prediction about the US finances and its debt ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    So my question was, where does that sit in the listing of US debt? Whether we owe it to ourselves isn't relevant; it's still debt and can't be ignored.
    There are better links, but this should give you an idea ...


  27. #27

    Re: Your prediction about the US finances and its debt ??

    The rich will not pay more -- no matter how high they set the rate. The really rich -- including democrats and republicans -- have ways of not paying taxes that the ordinary citizen does not.

    There will not be any more taxes paid by raising the rates on the super rich.

    Boehner offers to close loopholes and Obama rejects the idea --- that should be major news.

    Taxing the rich is a popular idea and Obama is using it to make republicans look bad. If I was Boehner I would agree to the increase in new taxes for the rich -- maybe those over $500,000 income -- call his bluff.

    Obama is trying to break the republican party.

  28. #28
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    Re: Your prediction about the US finances and its debt ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    The rich will not pay more -- no matter how high they set the rate. The really rich -- including democrats and republicans -- have ways of not paying taxes that the ordinary citizen does not.

    There will not be any more taxes paid by raising the rates on the super rich.

    Boehner offers to close loopholes and Obama rejects the idea --- that should be major news.

    Taxing the rich is a popular idea and Obama is using it to make republicans look bad. If I was Boehner I would agree to the increase in new taxes for the rich -- maybe those over $500,000 income -- call his bluff.

    Obama is trying to break the republican party.
    If that's really, legitimately true, then yes. They should go ahead and pass it. They'd get to look good and less like they were throwing a sour grapes temper tantrum and playing power games after losing an election.

    I wonder why they aren't, since according to what you say, they really stand to lose nothing by cooperating.

  29. #29
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    Re: Your prediction about the US finances and its debt ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    So there is a stack of IOUs in the "Trust Fund" -- call them "bonds" or whatever, it means IOUs.

    So my question was, where does that sit in the listing of US debt? Whether we owe it to ourselves isn't relevant; it's still debt and can't be ignored.
    It isn't an IOU... you are still refusing to comprehend. It is debt just like everything else we have borrowed except we hold the ticket so that to me is much better.... Yet at the end of the day if we cant pay that debt then it wouldn't matter if six hecta-trillions were saved the US will be defaulted and so will Social Security... in other words as long as Social Security exists the debt and bonds on SS will exist and they will always be paid. Calling it an IOU is semantics since it never really actually existed in the first place.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
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  30. #30
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    Re: Your prediction about the US finances and its debt ??

    Quote Originally Posted by opinterph View Post
    There are better links, but this should give you an idea ...

    Ah -- an answer!

    Should have come to you first.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  31. #31
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    Re: Your prediction about the US finances and its debt ??

    Meh I didnt realize you were asking what constituted our debt....
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
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    Re: Your prediction about the US finances and its debt ??

    I'm not super-knoweldgeable about economics, so this may be a silly question: What would happen if the Federal reserve decided to forgive most or all of their debt holdings? Or, what if they decided to forgive all of it if the government made a large single payment?

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    Re: Your prediction about the US finances and its debt ??

    Everything would collapse.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  34. #34
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    Re: Your prediction about the US finances and its debt ??

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    Meh I didnt realize you were asking what constituted our debt....

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  35. #35
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    Re: Your prediction about the US finances and its debt ??

    Quote Originally Posted by JB3 View Post
    I'm not super-knoweldgeable about economics, so this may be a silly question: What would happen if the Federal reserve decided to forgive most or all of their debt holdings? Or, what if they decided to forgive all of it if the government made a large single payment?
    "All"? My guess is chaos.

    I think the most they could get away with and not cause economic disturbances would be give a holiday on interest.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Your prediction about the US finances and its debt ??

    Yeah I'm no expert either but my uninformed mental picture of "forgiving the debt" would be wheelbarrows of cash to buy bread.

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    Re: Your prediction about the US finances and its debt ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    "All"? My guess is chaos.

    I think the most they could get away with and not cause economic disturbances would be give a holiday on interest.
    Pretty much what I figured. It just seems odd that the Fed is the biggest debt holder considering their relationship to the government. I mean, really, what's to prevent the Fed and government from colluding with each other to say that the government is paying down debt when they aren't and having their debt magically 'disappear'?

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    Re: Your prediction about the US finances and its debt ??

    Quote Originally Posted by JB3 View Post
    Pretty much what I figured. It just seems odd that the Fed is the biggest debt holder considering their relationship to the government. I mean, really, what's to prevent the Fed and government from colluding with each other to say that the government is paying down debt when they aren't and having their debt magically 'disappear'?
    You mean cook the books? Fascinating concept. Wall Street did it to the whole country, inventing money and then making it all vanish except their portion... might it work?

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Your prediction about the US finances and its debt ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    You mean cook the books? Fascinating concept. Wall Street did it to the whole country, inventing money and then making it all vanish except their portion... might it work?
    Pretty much. I also imagine that someone, somewhere in the government has evaluated the concept. (My sibling works for the GAO, and they get asked to do stuff like that all the time, even if its just a huge what-if)

  40. #40
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Your prediction about the US finances and its debt ??

    Okay so back to reality land where debt doesnt just vanish with the tooth fairy.


    Republicans are more and more talking about giving into Obama's demand to raise taxes which is somewhat a win as they agree to cut taxes on the majority of us in the same bill. At least that is what they are talking about. I agree taxes should not go up on the majority of America. At least not to the Clinton era levels that would be an average net increase of 3000 bucks for each American. However I would fully support a plan to raise everyone's taxes 1/3 of that rate. It is quite obvious to all concerned that raising taxes on just the wealthy doesnt solve anything substantial but does start (very slightly) to level the taxable playing field.

    Now republicans are going to hold debt hostage once more to barter with Americas credit for more entitlement cuts...

    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  41. #41
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    Re: Your prediction about the US finances and its debt ??

    ^
    The problem is that raising taxes at all on the bottom end will dampen the economy substantially. That $1k a year is presently being spent, and that spending is what drives the economy -- the rich don't drive it, the "rest" do.

    That's why the bail-out of the banks was a silly thing to do: we should have bailed out the people with "problem loans", because that would have been money into the economy.

    Here's an easy way to put it: earned income, i.e. income people actually work for, is the foundation of the economy; unearned income is secondary.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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