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  1. #151
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    Re: Hostage Taker Boehner: Im Walking Away from compromise, throws cold water over budget talks

    Oh, Obama is hosting a holiday party at the WH for Congress. That ought to be interesting.
    BEWARE! Harassing the Indian may result in sudden and severe hair loss.

  2. #152
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    Re: Hostage Taker Boehner: Im Walking Away from compromise, throws cold water over budget talks

    Bah humbug.....
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  3. #153
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    Re: Hostage Taker Boehner: Im Walking Away from compromise, throws cold water over budget talks

    Oh, Obama is hosting a holiday party at the WH for Congress. That ought to be interesting.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    Bah humbug.....
    God! That man is fugly!

    *fuckin ugly
    BEWARE! Harassing the Indian may result in sudden and severe hair loss.

  4. #154
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    Re: Hostage Taker Boehner: Im Walking Away from compromise, throws cold water over budget talks

    Scaryface.

  5. #155
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    Re: Hostage Taker Boehner: Im Walking Away from compromise, throws cold water over budget talks



    A visage only a mom from Galapagos might love?

  6. #156
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    Re: Hostage Taker Boehner: Im Walking Away from compromise, throws cold water over budget talks

    Now I have that thing from Never Ending Story stuck in my head. Thanks.


    Click image for larger version. 

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  7. #157
    dougmc92
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    Re: Hostage Taker Boehner: Im Walking Away from compromise, throws cold water over budget talks

    Love this tweet from Bill Maher on the subject:

    I don't get today's Republicans. Paying for stuff used to be called responsible; now its called Socialism.

  8. #158
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    Re: Hostage Taker Boehner: Im Walking Away from compromise, throws cold water over budget talks

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post


    A visage only a mom from Galapagos might love?
    I can't believe you did that! Now I will have nightmares. I used to like turtles.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    Now I have that thing from Never Ending Story stuck in my head. Thanks.


    Click image for larger version. 

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    But this is ET, isn't it? Don't relate them together.
    BEWARE! Harassing the Indian may result in sudden and severe hair loss.

  9. #159
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    Re: Hostage Taker Boehner: Im Walking Away from compromise, throws cold water over budget talks

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    With the Democrats, it is sometimes hard to say. lol

    However, the more important issue is that the legislative branch would never, ever yield this power to the Executive. Nor should they.
    Agreed. And that's why many don't view it as a serious offer. Its inclusion is a non-starter, and would turn off everyone, democrats and republicans included.

  10. #160
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    Re: Hostage Taker Boehner: Im Walking Away from compromise, throws cold water over budget talks

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    Don't conflate "it was a high initial bargaining point" with "completely unwilling to compromise."

    The only accurate direction to throw that accusation is at the Republicans in Congress for the last 4 years.
    It wasn't just high, it was patently absurd.

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    Re: Hostage Taker Boehner: Im Walking Away from compromise, throws cold water over budget talks

    Actually the Executive has been leeching power off the Legislature since like, the beginning, sometimes with their active consent sometimes not.

    Modern presidents are far more powerful than was intended.
    ATTACK OF THE LIBERAL ELITE

  12. #162
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: Hostage Taker Boehner: Im Walking Away from compromise, throws cold water over budget talks

    Quote Originally Posted by JB3 View Post
    It wasn't just high, it was patently absurd.
    Hence the indignation and outrage over Obama "demanding it" being ridiculous. It was just a bargaining tactic.

    Holding the process hostage after your party lost in the election is also absurd. But it is now the norm.

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    Re: Hostage Taker Boehner: Im Walking Away from compromise, throws cold water over budget talks

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    Hence the indignation and outrage over Obama "demanding it" being ridiculous. It was just a bargaining tactic.

    Holding the process hostage after your party lost in the election is also absurd. But it is now the norm.
    Considering that you're bitching about how much the republicans are stalling, it seems ridiculous that you can support a bargaining tactic that does nothing except poison the negotiations.

    If the proposal had been reasonable and the republicans still balked, the president would have had the opportunity to use that against them as a bargaining chip. Instead, he gave them ammo to use against him. It was a bad move made with politics instead of progress in mind.

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    Re: Hostage Taker Boehner: Im Walking Away from compromise, throws cold water over budget talks

    Quote Originally Posted by JB3 View Post
    Considering that you're bitching about how much the republicans are stalling, it seems ridiculous that you can support a bargaining tactic that does nothing except poison the negotiations.

    If the proposal had been reasonable and the republicans still balked, the president would have had the opportunity to use that against them as a bargaining chip. Instead, he gave them ammo to use against him. It was a bad move made with politics instead of progress in mind.
    This negotiation started with Republicans saying "we won't come to the table at all until cuts are proposed-- but we're not going to be the ones to propose which cuts should be made."

    So Obama forced them to name their desired terms by coming back with a proposal he knew they wouldn't accept. If they want cuts, man up and show which ones you propose. You don't get to dictate every step of the process when you're the minority that just lost the election. Deal with it.

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    Re: Hostage Taker Boehner: Im Walking Away from compromise, throws cold water over budget talks

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    This negotiation started with Republicans saying "we won't come to the table at all until cuts are proposed-- but we're not going to be the ones to propose which cuts should be made."

    So Obama forced them to name their desired terms by coming back with a proposal he knew they wouldn't accept. If they want cuts, man up and show which ones you propose. You don't get to dictate every step of the process when you're the minority that just lost the election. Deal with it.
    You seem to have never negotiated anything. If you have a party that has already dug its heels in and is being obstinate, you don't get them to the table by making outrageous demands.

  16. #166
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    Re: Hostage Taker Boehner: Im Walking Away from compromise, throws cold water over budget talks

    Quote Originally Posted by JB3 View Post
    You seem to have never negotiated anything. If you have a party that has already dug its heels in and is being obstinate, you don't get them to the table by making outrageous demands.
    I'm sorry, please show me the evidence that the GOP has been remotely reasonable on anything, ever, and that Obama bending over backwards to try to appease them in his first four years bore positive fruit.

    If you truly believe this junk you haven't been paying attention for four years. Why should his bargaining strength be LESS after an election where the Republicans lost hard?

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    Re: Hostage Taker Boehner: Im Walking Away from compromise, throws cold water over budget talks

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    I'm sorry, please show me the evidence that the GOP has been remotely reasonable on anything, ever, and that Obama bending over backwards to try to appease them in his first four years bore positive fruit.

    If you truly believe this junk you haven't been paying attention for four years. Why should his bargaining strength be LESS after an election where the Republicans lost hard?
    You didn't read what I actually wrote. (Giancarlo, is that you?) Nowhere did I say that the republicans were being reasonable. In fact, they are being quite unreasonable.

    You don't get them to the table by putting out a ridiculous proposal that will only piss them off even more. He could have put forth an entirely reasonable proposal that was identical to what he did put out, but without the debt ceiling bric-a-brac, and the republicans would not have had a leg to stand on when the inevitably shot it down.

    Also, the president's own advisors have said that he plainly does not have a mandate on taxes and the economy. That's why this initial proposal was so confusing.

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    Re: Hostage Taker Boehner: Im Walking Away from compromise, throws cold water over budget talks

    You don't get them to the table by giving them what they want and passing off their ideas as your own either, evidently.

    You don't get them to the table period while the crazy is running a rampant tantrum over the black man.
    ATTACK OF THE LIBERAL ELITE

  19. #169
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    Re: Hostage Taker Boehner: Im Walking Away from compromise, throws cold water over budget talks

    Quote Originally Posted by JB3 View Post
    You didn't read what I actually wrote. (Giancarlo, is that you?) Nowhere did I say that the republicans were being reasonable. In fact, they are being quite unreasonable.

    You don't get them to the table by putting out a ridiculous proposal that will only piss them off even more. He could have put forth an entirely reasonable proposal that was identical to what he did put out, but without the debt ceiling bric-a-brac, and the republicans would not have had a leg to stand on when the inevitably shot it down.

    Also, the president's own advisors have said that he plainly does not have a mandate on taxes and the economy. That's why this initial proposal was so confusing.
    They seem perfectly willing to try to hold the process hostage whether or not Obama returns to his policy in the first four years of trying everything possible to reach reasonable compromise even including virtually all of their demands (see Health Care bill). If they choose to act like children taking a temper tantrum and refuse to participate like grownups-- again-- I fail to see how the blame for that is Obama not coddling them hard enough.

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    Re: Hostage Taker Boehner: Im Walking Away from compromise, throws cold water over budget talks

    Quote Originally Posted by JB3 View Post
    Considering that you're bitching about how much the republicans are stalling, it seems ridiculous that you can support a bargaining tactic that does nothing except poison the negotiations.
    says the hostage taker, hence the title of the thread.


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    Re: Hostage Taker Boehner: Im Walking Away from compromise, throws cold water over budget talks

    Couldn't agree more; I especially agree with point 2.

  22. #172
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    Re: Hostage Taker Boehner: Im Walking Away from compromise, throws cold water over budget talks

    Just a thought: President Obama should propose cutting all federal salaries except the enlisted military by ten percent -- including himself. That ought to set off something interesting.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Hostage Taker Boehner: Im Walking Away from compromise, throws cold water over budget talks

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Just a thought: President Obama should propose cutting all federal salaries except the enlisted military by ten percent -- including himself. That ought to set off something interesting.
    50%, members of congress already make 200k a year and many of them are millionaires.


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    Re: Hostage Taker Boehner: Im Walking Away from compromise, throws cold water over budget talks

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    They seem perfectly willing to try to hold the process hostage whether or not Obama returns to his policy in the first four years of trying everything possible to reach reasonable compromise even including virtually all of their demands (see Health Care bill). If they choose to act like children taking a temper tantrum and refuse to participate like grownups-- again-- I fail to see how the blame for that is Obama not coddling them hard enough.
    Since what I'm saying doesn't seem to be getting through to you:

    The point wasn't that the President putting forth a more reasonable offer would get republicans to stop being obstructionist. The point was that, by putting up an entirely reasonable offer, he would take the wind out of any republican talking points and could make the legitimate argument that republicans weren't interested in negotiating.

    Instead, what he gave us was a proposal that gave the republicans raw meat and diverted attention away from the other sensible pieces he included.

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    Re: Hostage Taker Boehner: Im Walking Away from compromise, throws cold water over budget talks

    Quote Originally Posted by evanrick View Post
    50%, members of congress already make 200k a year and many of them are millionaires.
    Postmen? Inventory managers? State Department communications secretaries? You want them all cut 50%?

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  26. #176
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    Re: Hostage Taker Boehner: Im Walking Away from compromise, throws cold water over budget talks

    Quote Originally Posted by evanrick View Post
    says the hostage taker, hence the title of the thread.
    The proposal was laughable. Anyone that's been paying any attention could see that this had no chance of being met with anything other than laughter.

  27. #177

    Re: Hostage Taker Boehner: Im Walking Away from compromise, throws cold water over budget talks

    Boehner offered what was basically a compromise of the Simpson-Bowles Plan. A serious offer. Rejected by the non-leader.

    Obama is planning on going over the cliff. He's arrogant and thinks he's Bill Clinton .... well, he's no Bill Clinton.

    While the USA faces a crisis, the non-leader-in-chief will be in Hawaii for a 3 week vacation.

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    Re: Hostage Taker Boehner: Im Walking Away from compromise, throws cold water over budget talks

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Postmen? Inventory managers? State Department communications secretaries? You want them all cut 50%?
    Not to mention the 300,000 workers at the state department, and tens of thousands that work in other departments. Most are middle class.

  29. #179
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    Re: Hostage Taker Boehner: Im Walking Away from compromise, throws cold water over budget talks

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Just a thought: President Obama should propose cutting all federal salaries except the enlisted military by ten percent -- including himself. That ought to set off something interesting.
    Oh thats sweet. A majority working on the federal pay scale are on the lower tier. You know the guy working at Grand Canyon, doing clerical work at Social Security or the BLM ,or sweeping the flooring at the Smithsonian, or repairing truck engines at some some shop outside of Chicago. Might be a GS1 or2, maybe a GS4 -7 and grade 5 making the big ass bucks you know. Their pay has been frozen since Jan 2010 when President Obama wiped out the massive 1.4% pay increase they were to get.
    Its hard to believe I know but there are still men and woman who are federal employees and not contractors who clean the toilets at the CIA and FBI offices. Not everyone working at the VA gets to sit in the Senate floor, some are changing guys diapers right now and will be tomorrow as federal workers and there pay was frozen too. They are all living the life of the well off and am sure they look forward to your proposal about a 10% pay cut. Hell why not just volunteer to be a patriot and work for free?
    Its the walmart way I realize the mindset of the majority is until it rams its muddy shoe deep up their asshole then they cry foul and whine how they are so poor already they can't afford to be a patriot and give up there massive huge income.

  30. #180
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    Re: Hostage Taker Boehner: Im Walking Away from compromise, throws cold water over budget talks

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Boehner offered what was basically a compromise of the Simpson-Bowles Plan.
    If that were so, I think this article would have mentioned it:

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...googlenews_wsj

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Hostage Taker Boehner: Im Walking Away from compromise, throws cold water over budget talks

    John Boehner and the GOP are trying to play the victim because they lost. The fiscal cliff is a manufactured crisis, just like the debt debacle was. Its just another ploy to shield congress, and the gig is up.


  32. #182

    Re: Hostage Taker Boehner: Im Walking Away from compromise, throws cold water over budget talks

    ^^^

    That seems to be Obama's thinking.

    However, I wonder why all his CEO buddies --- like his bundler and friend Costco CEO are paying dividends a few days before the end of 2012 instead of when they normally do at the first of the year.

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    Re: Hostage Taker Boehner: Im Walking Away from compromise, throws cold water over budget talks

    Americans don't believe that republicans will face reality, that a deal will not be reached, and everyones taxes are going up.

    If republicans refuse to vote for a middle class tax cut now, why would they after taxes go up?


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    Re: Hostage Taker Boehner: Im Walking Away from compromise, throws cold water over budget talks

    If they can't get tax breaks for the super rich - I wouldn't put it past some of them like hmmmmm, CANTOR to let everyone's taxes go up out of sheer juvenile spite.
    ATTACK OF THE LIBERAL ELITE

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    Re: Hostage Taker Boehner: Im Walking Away from compromise, throws cold water over budget talks

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    ^^^

    That seems to be Obama's thinking.

    However, I wonder why all his CEO buddies --- like his bundler and friend Costco CEO are paying dividends a few days before the end of 2012 instead of when they normally do at the first of the year.
    Do they pay you per wacky conspiracy theory, or are you on salary?
    ATTACK OF THE LIBERAL ELITE

  36. #186
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    Re: Hostage Taker Boehner: Im Walking Away from compromise, throws cold water over budget talks

    Okay to the early spat about Obama making a ridiculous offer. He is simply starting high so republicans will offer something. All to often over the last years Obama has been willing to listen to that mindset and ends up bargaining with himself... then after he has conceded and come to middle the republicans publicly balk and demand more and ask why the President wont meet them in the middle. To say it should be the same no is ignorant to the last three years.

    I saw an article where the CBO is offering to cut military pay and benefits because it is too much. I would ask just one question. If military pay is too high for people to spend years away from their homes and the people they love typically in places where people wnat to kill them then WHY is it lower tier military members qualify for food stamps by falling below the poverty level for a family?

    Are service members overcompensated?

    Kuli I can get behind the concept that senior ranks and senior GSA employees ought to have a ten percent cut. Hell I am very much willing to pay more and have said so since this fiscal crisis started. However don't ask the bottom rung to pay more they are grossly under compensated in my humble opinion.

    First lets look at both articles and their figures:

    Escalating Military Pay under Scrutiny

    Military cash compensation jumped 52 percent overall compared to 24 percent for the private sector workforce between 2002 to 2010, the CBO report said.
    Hmmm was that the same 2002 to 2010 when we were incentivising service members to stay in the service despite a tempo that exceeded by ten fold that of previous years....? Oh and go take a look at the pay incentives and raises. Taken as a whole they are 25% greater than the civilian work force yet they were all targeted to MATCH benefits to outside employment while incentivising retention.

    Military Pays Caps and Gaps - RAND

    Take a look at this report that talks about downsizing that occurred post Reagan and during the Clinton Administration. It is suggesting growing military pay rates less than the civilian workforce because retention wasn't affected for ten years after Reagan did it. It also suggested we could sustain those levels of retention ... mind you that 1994 and the idea of 12 years of war was not even a concept.... so lets take a journey:

    The ECI shows an ever-widening pay
    gap through the 1980s, reaching 11.7 percent by fiscal 1992 from a fiscal 1982 base
    point—that is, military pay grew 11.7 percent slower than civilian pay as
    measured by the ECI. However, unlike the situation in the late 1970s, the
    Services did not experience recruiting and retention problems. As a result, the
    ECI-based pay gap suggested that military pay had become unimportant to
    meeting personnel quality and quantity goals.
    Hmm so 1992 the military is being paid almost 12 percent less than the civilian sector. But patriotism and opportunity is overcoming any accession or retention issues.

    The result was a carried gap to the Bush years who immediately started trying to close that gap before we ever heard of war. He and congress passed a 1% pay increase guarantee above the normal rise for inflation over the next ten years.

    So the long and the short is IF we ask these folks to come home now and then ensure we have funded all care programs fully the idea of stagnate or lower pay levels will not kill our military. However if it is allowed to get to far afield then you will see the great decline in quality and retention that was felt in the 70's and early 80's.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


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    Re: Hostage Taker Boehner: Im Walking Away from compromise, throws cold water over budget talks

    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    If they can't get tax breaks for the super rich - I wouldn't put it past some of them like hmmmmm, CANTOR to let everyone's taxes go up out of sheer juvenile spite.
    Let everyone's taxes go up, but increase the individual exemption by $2k.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Hostage Taker Boehner: Im Walking Away from compromise, throws cold water over budget talks

    Quote Originally Posted by JB3 View Post
    Since what I'm saying doesn't seem to be getting through to you:

    The point wasn't that the President putting forth a more reasonable offer would get republicans to stop being obstructionist. The point was that, by putting up an entirely reasonable offer, he would take the wind out of any republican talking points and could make the legitimate argument that republicans weren't interested in negotiating.

    Instead, what he gave us was a proposal that gave the republicans raw meat and diverted attention away from the other sensible pieces he included.
    I disagree. Since ANYTHING proposed by Obama has been ROUTINELY met as "outrageous" by Republicans, putting out the things you actually hope to get first (to meet the "that's outrageous!") would be a stupid tactic over beginning the negotiation with a bigger initial asking from which you compromise towards what you want to get.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Boehner offered what was basically a compromise of the Simpson-Bowles Plan. A serious offer. Rejected by the non-leader.

    Obama is planning on going over the cliff. He's arrogant and thinks he's Bill Clinton .... well, he's no Bill Clinton.

    While the USA faces a crisis, the non-leader-in-chief will be in Hawaii for a 3 week vacation.
    This criticism... wow. Do you know how much time Bush spent on his ranch? lol.

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    Re: Hostage Taker Boehner: Im Walking Away from compromise, throws cold water over budget talks

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    Okay to the early spat about Obama making a ridiculous offer. He is simply starting high so republicans will offer something. All to often over the last years Obama has been willing to listen to that mindset and ends up bargaining with himself... then after he has conceded and come to middle the republicans publicly balk and demand more and ask why the President wont meet them in the middle. To say it should be the same no is ignorant to the last three years.

    I saw an article where the CBO is offering to cut military pay and benefits because it is too much. I would ask just one question. If military pay is too high for people to spend years away from their homes and the people they love typically in places where people wnat to kill them then WHY is it lower tier military members qualify for food stamps by falling below the poverty level for a family?

    Are service members overcompensated?

    Kuli I can get behind the concept that senior ranks and senior GSA employees ought to have a ten percent cut. Hell I am very much willing to pay more and have said so since this fiscal crisis started. However don't ask the bottom rung to pay more they are grossly under compensated in my humble opinion.

    First lets look at both articles and their figures:

    Escalating Military Pay under Scrutiny



    Hmmm was that the same 2002 to 2010 when we were incentivising service members to stay in the service despite a tempo that exceeded by ten fold that of previous years....? Oh and go take a look at the pay incentives and raises. Taken as a whole they are 25% greater than the civilian work force yet they were all targeted to MATCH benefits to outside employment while incentivising retention.

    Military Pays Caps and Gaps - RAND

    Take a look at this report that talks about downsizing that occurred post Reagan and during the Clinton Administration. It is suggesting growing military pay rates less than the civilian workforce because retention wasn't affected for ten years after Reagan did it. It also suggested we could sustain those levels of retention ... mind you that 1994 and the idea of 12 years of war was not even a concept.... so lets take a journey:



    Hmm so 1992 the military is being paid almost 12 percent less than the civilian sector. But patriotism and opportunity is overcoming any accession or retention issues.

    The result was a carried gap to the Bush years who immediately started trying to close that gap before we ever heard of war. He and congress passed a 1% pay increase guarantee above the normal rise for inflation over the next ten years.

    So the long and the short is IF we ask these folks to come home now and then ensure we have funded all care programs fully the idea of stagnate or lower pay levels will not kill our military. However if it is allowed to get to far afield then you will see the great decline in quality and retention that was felt in the 70's and early 80's.
    Services once they're home should be guaranteed -- period.

    One thing that would help is if across the board government ended the asinine practice of raises by percentages of current pay. That's a huge contributor to widening the gap between those at the bottom and those at the top. The way to deal with raises is simple: take the current poverty level, double it, apply the percentage inflation rate, take the resulting amount and give everyone that raise. At the moment, though, I'd say the GS1 and -2 salaries ought to be raised an additional $2k per year.

    Romney wanted billions more than the Pentagon even asked for. I can agree to some of that, but not for the Pentagon -- it needs to go to the VA. They wouldn't let me serve, so it wouldn't do anything for me, but I can imagine being injured or wounded and coming back only to find that I had to wait in line as long as the worst stories about Canada or the UK to get help.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Hostage Taker Boehner: Im Walking Away from compromise, throws cold water over budget talks

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    This criticism... wow. Do you know how much time Bush spent on his ranch? lol.
    The vacation crybaby shit never ends. Although you never hear these toadies decry the republicans who spend vastly more time lazing about doing nothing.... Bush literally fiddled while rome burned...

    President Obama has been on vacation 78 days from 2009 to 2011. At the three year mark into their first terms, George W. Bush spent 180 days at his ranch in Crawford, Texas and Ronald Reagan spent 112 vacation days at his ranch in California. Of course, staff was around all three Presidents on vacations and all White House aides argue that the commander-in-chief is never “out of touch” with work
    Of course that last line is the key note here that makes cries on either side irrelevant.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  41. #191
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    Re: Hostage Taker Boehner: Im Walking Away from compromise, throws cold water over budget talks

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    I disagree. Since ANYTHING proposed by Obama has been ROUTINELY met as "outrageous" by Republicans, putting out the things you actually hope to get first (to meet the "that's outrageous!") would be a stupid tactic over beginning the negotiation with a bigger initial asking from which you compromise towards what you want to get.
    I wonder if the request for authority to raise the debt ceiling wasn't a way of announcing he doesn't think the Republicans can be trusted to not fuck the country over again? After Boehner went two-faced between the election and now, I don't expect anything more out of the House Republicans than the equivalent of throwing sand in the sandbox because they can't have their way.

    If Boehner had any balls, he'd lay down reality to the RNC and tell them that he's going to run things like a real Republican, and if that lets the Tea Partites make a mess of everything and sink the party for a generation, it won't be on his shoulders, it will be on the shoulders of the people who are supposed to be running the party and making sure that candidates for national office are at least as smart as fifth graders.

    What's sad is that this is a perfect example of why we need a multi-party system: the thing for the real Republicans to do at the moment would be to ditch the Tea Party and make a real working compromise with the Democrats.

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    This criticism... wow. Do you know how much time Bush spent on his ranch? lol.
    Jack dislikes facts, so there's no point in bothering him with any.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  42. #192
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    Re: Hostage Taker Boehner: Im Walking Away from compromise, throws cold water over budget talks

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    The vacation crybaby shit never ends. Although you never hear these toadies decry the republicans who spend vastly more time lazing about doing nothing.... Bush literally fiddled while rome burned...



    Of course that last line is the key note here that makes cries on either side irrelevant.
    Yeah. I recall an article where some on the staff complained that Bush insisted on them sitting around doing business while he split wood. I thought it was rather kool of him to humble them that way.

    Not that I believe that's what he was thinking... though if it had been LBJ he not only would have expected staff to be there, he would have dragged some recalcitrant congresscritters along and made them stack the wood he was splitting.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  43. #193
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    Re: Hostage Taker Boehner: Im Walking Away from compromise, throws cold water over budget talks

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Services once they're home should be guaranteed -- period.

    One thing that would help is if across the board government ended the asinine practice of raises by percentages of current pay. That's a huge contributor to widening the gap between those at the bottom and those at the top. The way to deal with raises is simple: take the current poverty level, double it, apply the percentage inflation rate, take the resulting amount and give everyone that raise. At the moment, though, I'd say the GS1 and -2 salaries ought to be raised an additional $2k per year.

    Romney wanted billions more than the Pentagon even asked for. I can agree to some of that, but not for the Pentagon -- it needs to go to the VA. They wouldn't let me serve, so it wouldn't do anything for me, but I can imagine being injured or wounded and coming back only to find that I had to wait in line as long as the worst stories about Canada or the UK to get help.
    Well you would find that the majority of the pay increases were provided to close the disparity between the junior and senior ranks... junior received on average three times as many raises by percentage. My point is we could easily survive the blow back from just doing a inflation increase each year... and senior ranks could easily absorb a cut or stopping the inflation adjustment. But the junior ranks who are on the edge or under the level of poverty cannot afford cuts.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  44. #194
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    Re: Hostage Taker Boehner: Im Walking Away from compromise, throws cold water over budget talks

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    Well you would find that the majority of the pay increases were provided to close the disparity between the junior and senior ranks... junior received on average three times as many raises by percentage. My point is we could easily survive the blow back from just doing a inflation increase each year... and senior ranks could easily absorb a cut or stopping the inflation adjustment. But the junior ranks who are on the edge or under the level of poverty cannot afford cuts.
    Which is why my suggestion excluded the enlisted and fell only on officers.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  45. #195
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    Re: Hostage Taker Boehner: Im Walking Away from compromise, throws cold water over budget talks

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Which is why my suggestion excluded the enlisted and fell only on officers.
    Well your heart was in the right place but did you know the bottom four ranks get paid less than the top enlisted ranks... as it should be.... i focus on all junior ranks.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  46. #196
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    Re: Hostage Taker Boehner: Im Walking Away from compromise, throws cold water over budget talks

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    However, the more important issue is that the legislative branch would never, ever yield this power to the Executive. Nor should they.
    Actually, Mitch McConnell proposed transferring authority for raising the debt ceiling to the president in the summer of 2011. It makes sense, since it creates the impression of reduced responsibility for the federal deficit by the Republican House. Obama is only asking for what Republicans themselves have proposed.

    The debt ceiling is an absurdity. If the idea was to limit the spending of the federal government, that has never happened. Not once since the debt ceiling law was enacted in 1917. The law does not grant real power to Congress, since votes to raise the debt ceiling only come after Congress and the president have already approved the spending in question. It does not matter whether the president is Republican or Democrat, nor whether the Congress is Republican or Democratic. Refusal to authorize spending for what has already been agreed upon (as Republicans did in 2011) is internally contradictory and childish. It accomplishes nothing beneficial, and a lot that is harmful.

    Repealing the law would be difficult. But, an easy way to effectively eliminate the many problems it has caused would be to transfer this authority to the president.

    Republicans do occasionally come up with good ideas. Transferring authority to raise the debt ceiling to the president is one of them.

  47. #197

    Re: Hostage Taker Boehner: Im Walking Away from compromise, throws cold water over budget talks

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    I disagree. Since ANYTHING proposed by Obama has been ROUTINELY met as "outrageous" by Republicans, putting out the things you actually hope to get first (to meet the "that's outrageous!") would be a stupid tactic over beginning the negotiation with a bigger initial asking from which you compromise towards what you want to get.



    This criticism... wow. Do you know how much time Bush spent on his ranch? lol.
    Bush when to the home he owned in Texas. He did not go to Hawaii and stay in a fundraiser's house for free.

    Bush didn't play golf all the time either.

    Obama thinks he's "king shit" and can do anything he wants now and the American people will blame it all on the republicans. Sad thing, he'll probably get away with it too with the support of the MSM.

  48. #198
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    Re: Hostage Taker Boehner: Im Walking Away from compromise, throws cold water over budget talks

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    Well your heart was in the right place but did you know the bottom four ranks get paid less than the top enlisted ranks... as it should be.... i focus on all junior ranks.
    You mean if a sergeant gets promoted to lieutenant, he gets a pay cut?

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  49. #199
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    Re: Hostage Taker Boehner: Im Walking Away from compromise, throws cold water over budget talks

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Bush when to the home he owned in Texas. He did not go to Hawaii and stay in a fundraiser's house for free.

    Bush didn't play golf all the time either.

    Obama thinks he's "king shit" and can do anything he wants now and the American people will blame it all on the republicans. Sad thing, he'll probably get away with it too with the support of the MSM.

    Jack your agaony over this makes me smile.

  50. #200
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    Re: Hostage Taker Boehner: Im Walking Away from compromise, throws cold water over budget talks

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Bush when to the home he owned in Texas. He did not go to Hawaii and stay in a fundraiser's house for free.

    Bush didn't play golf all the time either.

    Obama thinks he's "king shit" and can do anything he wants now and the American people will blame it all on the republicans. Sad thing, he'll probably get away with it too with the support of the MSM.
    Reserve your outrage for something that is worth any actual outrage and not massively hypocritical.

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