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  1. #1
    JUB Addict CoolBlue71's Avatar
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    Would you name one U.S. president you really appreciate?

    Would you name one U.S. president you really appreciate?

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    JUB Addict Sausy's Avatar
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    Re: Would you name one U.S. president you really appreciate?

    Harry Truman. Not always the most popular guy but held to his principles and stood firm against the Soviet Union's expansionist goals after WWII. A tough Democrat with character... also started the ball rolling on civil rights integrating the armed forces.
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    Re: Would you name one U.S. president you really appreciate?

    Jimmy Carter...he is a decent man and a brilliant humanitarian. I have great respect and affection for him.

  4. #4

    Re: Would you name one U.S. president you really appreciate?

    I'll agree with Sausy -- Harry Truman. He came from a very simple background, had a strong faith in God, said what he wanted to say, saved the White House structure, saved what may have been millions of lives by putting an end to WWII, was devoted to his family which probably cost him many votes when he ran for office.

    Truman also didn't allow the position of being President to go to his head -- if you take a tour through the house that he and his wife lived in after his Presidency you would be humbled. The house they lived in was big -- it was his mother-in-law's house -- but it is very simple -- they were not extravagant people. Truman was also able to divorce himself from being a pawn of the local political boss Tom Pendergast. He was treated in the worst way by Roosevelt and in many ways was a better President than Roosevelt.

    Truman created the modern Presidential library which allows papers, correspondence, and memorabilia from the WH to be forever preserved and studied. I'll never forget the field trip to the library when I was in grade school and seeing the replica of the the Oval Office.

    America has had many great Presidents. To put it in a nutshell I appreciate Truman because he proved that an average person could become President and do great things.

  5. #5
    loki81
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    Re: Would you name one U.S. president you really appreciate?

    Truman also didn't allow the position of being President to go to his head -- if you take a tour through the house that he and his wife lived in after his Presidency you would be humbled. The house they lived in was big -- it was his mother-in-law's house -- but it is very simple -- they were not extravagant people. Truman was also able to divorce himself from being a pawn of the local political boss Tom Pendergast. He was treated in the worst way by Roosevelt and in many ways was a better President than Roosevelt.
    um... because Truman was flat broke after the Presidency it was never stated outright, but it's generally understood that the Presidential Pension act was established because of Truman's post-presidency poverty, and that Herbert Hoover only accepted the pension as well to help him save face.

    (that aside, I like Truman... he was probably our last President to come from the middle class)

  6. #6
    Oranje rareboy's Avatar
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    Re: Would you name one U.S. president you really appreciate?

    Jefferson

    Lincoln

    Teddy Roosevelt

    FDR

    Washington
    Last edited by rareboy; November 28th, 2012 at 09:15 AM.

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    Re: Would you name one U.S. president you really appreciate?

    And yes...I know I broke the rules.

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    Re: Would you name one U.S. president you really appreciate?

    Abraham Lincoln.

    I've always liked him but even more so now after I saw the movie about him that came out this year (sorry I forgot the name of it).

  9. #9

    Re: Would you name one U.S. president you really appreciate?

    John F. Kennedy
    Without Kennedy we would had have World War III.

  10. #10

    Re: Would you name one U.S. president you really appreciate?

    I would choose the last good Republican president: Eisenhower. I'll remember him as the obedient president, who sent troops to protect little black schoolchildren and black college students after the Supreme Court ruled segregated education unconstitutional.

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    Re: Would you name one U.S. president you really appreciate?

    Besides Obama, Jimmy Carter.
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  12. #12

    Re: Would you name one U.S. president you really appreciate?

    Quote Originally Posted by loki81 View Post
    um... because Truman was flat broke after the Presidency it was never stated outright, but it's generally understood that the Presidential Pension act was established because of Truman's post-presidency poverty, and that Herbert Hoover only accepted the pension as well to help him save face.

    (that aside, I like Truman... he was probably our last President to come from the middle class)
    You can still see the floorboards through the cheap linoleum in the kitchen in the house. The tour guides in the house walk backwards like the Pentagon tour guides do to keep you from touching anything.

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    Re: Would you name one U.S. president you really appreciate?

    Nixon because he was really great at foreign policy! Also, he had balls unlike a lot of the Presidents who were (dare I say "is" in reference to the current one) milquetoast yes-men with spines as durable as a wet flannel.
    Your post comments are forwarded to the CIA.

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    Re: Would you name one U.S. president you really appreciate?

    How easily an appreciation devolved into hate for another... at base do you really wonder why people die on Black Friday?

    I have always taken a different route. The best President is no different. I like Woodrow Wilson. I like him for practical things that is probably why some of you all may dislike him.

    The Underwood tariff which is the baseline for a federal income tax upon which so many other national programs exist.

    The idea although NOT accepted of a League of Nations to work out arguments. What an amazing idea and although paid for mostly by the United States the Current UN does resolve a lot of issue before they can become conflicts.

    The first efforts to give workers more rights to strike, picket and boycott so as to be unified against the abusive nature of some employers. He gave them a voice.

    The Federal Reserve which has spawned and regulated growth of the American century. Although I think we could do better with a national bank we are doing pretty good at the top of the barrel and a lot of that has to do with having a FED....

    Finally his reluctance to enter WWI.
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    Re: Would you name one U.S. president you really appreciate?

    I'm gonna go off the beaten path of typical candidates and say James Garfield. I always hate when the GOP speak Lincoln's name as part of their party. Garfield was an ideal Lincoln successor in more ways than one. He was basically assassinated and only was in office for a year but he would been a good president. He hated government waste and abolished the spoils system in the government. He completely revamped the Post Office after it was discovered to be rotten to the core. He indicted his own campaign manager who was involved in the scandal he was that much against cronyism. He was also against the jingoistic expansion of European countries in Asia and Africa (once the Civil War started, Manifest Destiny was over). He rebuilt the dilapidated navy too. He also hired several blacks into high government positions and wanted to reform education in the south.

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    Re: Would you name one U.S. president you really appreciate?

    Abraham Lincoln, because he's a bad ass vampire slayer.


    I keed!!!


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    Re: Would you name one U.S. president you really appreciate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sausy View Post
    A tough Democrat with character...
    and the last of his kind.

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    Re: Would you name one U.S. president you really appreciate?

    I'll just name a few of my favorites:

    Lincoln, TR, Wilson, FDR, Eisenhower, JFK & Obama

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    Re: Would you name one U.S. president you really appreciate?

    Quote Originally Posted by star-warrior View Post
    Abraham Lincoln, because he's a bad ass vampire slayer.


    I keed!!!
    I did it first! Just in a more subtle way

  20. #20
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    Re: Would you name one U.S. president you really appreciate?

    My first inclination is Ronald Regan, because of the masterful way in which he handled foreign policy, especially regarding the Soviets. But his dismal performance in domestic policy, especially social issues, knocks him out of the running.

    My next call would be Truman, but he's outside my range of experience, and I'd rather pick one at least within my lifetime. That's still hard, because there are a number with some aspects of greatness but not enough to be called great -- LBJ is a good example.

    So I'm going to settle on Eisenhower. He was a real conservative, and a thinking one, to boot. He'd know exactly how to handle today's situation, working from actual conservative principles and not the reactionary crap pitched now by the GOP.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

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  21. #21
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    Re: Would you name one U.S. president you really appreciate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    My first inclination is Ronald Regan, because of the masterful way in which he handled foreign policy, especially regarding the Soviets. But his dismal performance in domestic policy, especially social issues, knocks him out of the running.

    My next call would be Truman, but he's outside my range of experience, and I'd rather pick one at least within my lifetime. That's still hard, because there are a number with some aspects of greatness but not enough to be called great -- LBJ is a good example.

    So I'm going to settle on Eisenhower. He was a real conservative, and a thinking one, to boot. He'd know exactly how to handle today's situation, working from actual conservative principles and not the reactionary crap pitched now by the GOP.
    Just a minor (semantic) nitpick: I tend to view a dismal performance as someone setting out to do something and doing very badly at it... I actually think Reagan pretty much did exactly what he aimed to do with social issues, so in that regard while I totally agree with you those were bad policies, he didn't fail. He was just a dinosaur pandering to a regressive, traditionalist mindset.

    His comments about NA's and reservations almost make me puke.

  22. #22

    Re: Would you name one U.S. president you really appreciate?

    ^^^

    Now you're going to start trashing this thread? Give it a rest man.

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    Re: Would you name one U.S. president you really appreciate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    ^^^

    Now you're going to start trashing this thread? Give it a rest man.
    I'm not trashing any thread.

    a) The response wasn't to you
    b) The response wasn't a trash, it was a semantic point as I noted
    c) Actually read posts thanks.

  24. #24
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    Re: Would you name one U.S. president you really appreciate?

    Franklin Roosevelet.

    This was a president that was so bad ass, he's responsible for the federal government establishing term limits. He's the closest thing we ever had to an emperor because of his leadership through the Great Depression and WWII. The people just kept electing him. Although the success of his New Deal can largely be debated, he did establish social policy that has defined American politics over entitlements for generations. We take care of our elderly because of FDR. He also had to show leadership in leading the "greatest generation" into fighting a war that defined human history. Despite his physical and marital flaws, the man is legendary.
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    Re: Would you name one U.S. president you really appreciate?

    Lincoln. We wouldn't be here without him. He also produced some of the most eloquent writings and speeches of any political figure in American history, which defined a generation of American government. Reading and hearing those things makes you realize how far our political class has fallen from grace.

  26. #26

    Re: Would you name one U.S. president you really appreciate?

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    How easily an appreciation devolved into hate for another... at base do you really wonder why people die on Black Friday?

    I have always taken a different route. The best President is no different. I like Woodrow Wilson. I like him for practical things that is probably why some of you all may dislike him.

    The Underwood tariff which is the baseline for a federal income tax upon which so many other national programs exist.

    The idea although NOT accepted of a League of Nations to work out arguments. What an amazing idea and although paid for mostly by the United States the Current UN does resolve a lot of issue before they can become conflicts.

    The first efforts to give workers more rights to strike, picket and boycott so as to be unified against the abusive nature of some employers. He gave them a voice.

    The Federal Reserve which has spawned and regulated growth of the American century. Although I think we could do better with a national bank we are doing pretty good at the top of the barrel and a lot of that has to do with having a FED....

    Finally his reluctance to enter WWI.
    The problem I have with Wilson is his belief that self determination was only for whites, while believing that non-whites were little more than savages than needed to be ruled by whites.

  27. #27

    Re: Would you name one U.S. president you really appreciate?

    Ronald Reagan.
    I used to be like that, but not anymore. At least not on the first date. Third date, whole other story..."

  28. #28
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Would you name one U.S. president you really appreciate?

    Reagan was absolutely one of the worst presidents since Warren Harding... the only saving grace was some of the foreign policy he implemented. Most of Reagan's foreign policy also was an abject failure. But I even give Nixon higher marks in foreign policy... but the two were easily the WORST in domestic policy. Reagan's handling of the HIV/AIDS epidemic and disastrous handling of Latin American politics was criminal. I can't believe his name comes up... he should have been sent to jail like the hundred (and then some) of his staffers that were convicted. Absolute criminal.

    http://articles.latimes.com/1992-03-..._1_el-salvador - Foreign policy FAILURE. They backed a butcher. Reagan did turn his back on D'Aubuisson but they backed Duarte who was just as bad. And don't think I'm just putting this on republicans... democrats in the 1980s had some part in it too. But the Reagan administration was key in sending money to murderers. And Mitt Romney was tied to it too.

    *rant over*

    As far as this thread... I think Theodore Roosevelt for me... who spoke of industrial and social justice. He was a product of his time and some of his foreign policy was a bit undesirable... but his domestic policy had many strong points.


  29. #29
    Porn Star Chrizze's Avatar
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    Re: Would you name one U.S. president you really appreciate?

    John.F.Kennedy. Second would be Ronald Reagan.



    ************* Disclaimer*************


    I would not further elaborate those choices,
    Because,I am sure everyone other here will.
    And for the record, I am not Republican.
    Should I be an U.S citizen,of course.
    Last edited by Chrizze; November 29th, 2012 at 03:27 AM.
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  30. #30

    Re: Would you name one U.S. president you really appreciate?

    Lincoln preserved the country and ended slavery.

    TR trust buster, created the National Park System, conservationist.

    FDR saved the country and created the middle class.

    Truman is the president began the transformation our political system into the current red state/blue state divide by desegregating the military.

    JFK was a transformational figure by winning the presidency despite deep seeded ethnic and religious prejudice. He's most responsible for how the Irish became white. He cemented black allegiance to the Democratic Party by calling Coretta Scott King when Martin Luther King, Jr. was jailed and by pushing for civil rights. Created the Peace Corps and won the space race.

    Obama was also a transformational figure who won the presidency despite deep seeded racial prejudice. Saved the country from another deep depression. Despite my many disappointments with him, I still appreciate him.

  31. #31
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Would you name one U.S. president you really appreciate?

    Quote Originally Posted by SoVos20 View Post
    The problem I have with Wilson is his belief that self determination was only for whites, while believing that non-whites were little more than savages than needed to be ruled by whites.
    Well he did have some quite obvious flaws. Yet he was a product of his time. I wont catalogue the issues with each President listed here but there are issues with all of them.
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  32. #32
    Banned chance1's Avatar
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    Re: Would you name one U.S. president you really appreciate?

    LBJ baby

    Current times show us that the ability to navigate across the aisle

    Is critical

    In order to effectuate positive change

    Civil Rights is a good but not the only example

    He had conviction

  33. #33
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    Re: Would you name one U.S. president you really appreciate?

    I know we're supposed to be positive but I don't get the love affair people have for JFK and I say that as an Irish [lapsed] Catholic in MA. His domestic policy was decent but his foreign policy was atrocious at best. Jackie was better at it than he was. With Kennedy, you got the erection of the Berlin Wall, Bay of Pigs disaster, the escalation of the Vietnam War and ending the embargo on Israel which lead to them acquiring weapons to use in the Yemen Civil War.

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    Re: Would you name one U.S. president you really appreciate?

    Quote Originally Posted by maxpowr9 View Post
    I know we're supposed to be positive but I don't get the love affair people have for JFK and I say that as an Irish [lapsed] Catholic in MA. His domestic policy was decent but his foreign policy was atrocious at best. Jackie was better at it than he was. With Kennedy, you got the erection of the Berlin Wall, Bay of Pigs disaster, the escalation of the Vietnam War and ending the embargo on Israel which lead to them acquiring weapons to use in the Yemen Civil War.
    We also avoided WWIII. Kind of a big one.

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    Re: Would you name one U.S. president you really appreciate?

    Quote Originally Posted by maxpowr9 View Post
    I know we're supposed to be positive but I don't get the love affair people have for JFK and I say that as an Irish [lapsed] Catholic in MA. His domestic policy was decent but his foreign policy was atrocious at best. Jackie was better at it than he was. With Kennedy, you got the erection of the Berlin Wall, Bay of Pigs disaster, the escalation of the Vietnam War and ending the embargo on Israel which lead to them acquiring weapons to use in the Yemen Civil War.
    All of that trumped by the fact that JFK saved us in the Cuban Missile Crisis. It was the closest moment in human history where the entire world was on the brink of nuclear war and destruction
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    Re: Would you name one U.S. president you really appreciate?

    Quote Originally Posted by maxpowr9 View Post
    I know we're supposed to be positive but I don't get the love affair people have for JFK .
    Maybe they were commenting on the man and his character? I interpreted the question..."appreciation"...as the President who I liked and respected the most and Jimmy Carter was my first and only thought...but as a effective President he wouldn't even be in my top ten.

  37. #37

    Re: Would you name one U.S. president you really appreciate?

    Quote Originally Posted by maxpowr9 View Post
    I know we're supposed to be positive but I don't get the love affair people have for JFK and I say that as an Irish [lapsed] Catholic in MA. His domestic policy was decent but his foreign policy was atrocious at best. Jackie was better at it than he was. With Kennedy, you got the erection of the Berlin Wall, Bay of Pigs disaster, the escalation of the Vietnam War and ending the embargo on Israel which lead to them acquiring weapons to use in the Yemen Civil War.
    Kennedy's foreign policy was not atrocious. The Berlin Wall was hardly Kennedy's fault. Did you expect him to go to war to remove it? The Bay of Pigs was a disaster and Kennedy should have called it off. Keep in mind, though, that it happened approxmately two months into his presidency.

    Kennedy did not escalate the Vietnam War. We had only military trainers in Vietnam when Kennedy was assassinated. I believe he had even ordered a reduction of American advisers in the last year of his presidency. The Gulf of Tonkin Resolution was in 1964, after which time LBJ escalated the war.

    Kennedy improved relations with Latin America and Africa. Created the Peace Corps. On balance, Kennedy had a successful foreign policy.

  38. #38
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Would you name one U.S. president you really appreciate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    The question was which president you really appreciate ... not the one your really hate.

    Reagan was a great President -- without him we'd still be in a cold war with the USSR.
    I answered the question. I gave Teddy Roosevelt as an snwer.

    And Reagan was a fricking disaster... who had a few positive points in foreign policy (Berlin wall)... his foreign policy in Latin America should have landed him behind bars like so many of his staffers.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by chance1 View Post
    obama is a reality tv star - not much more
    Spoken without any real evidence. Obama has substance... unlike the reality TV star that ran against him.

  39. #39
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    Re: Would you name one U.S. president you really appreciate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Reagan was a great President -- without him we'd still be in a cold war with the USSR.
    No -- he merely accelerated the inevitable. The Sovunion might have lasted another twenty, maybe twenty-five years without Reagan's input, but the economics of the situation made the collapse certain.

    One thing he did do was make it a crisis point rather than a lengthy deterioration. I used to read predictions of the collapse that almost promised civil war, even nuclear exchanges within the USSR. But by bringing it to a boil while they were still somewhat stable, Reagan made a more-or-less orderly transition possible.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  40. #40
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Would you name one U.S. president you really appreciate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    One thing he did do was make it a crisis point rather than a lengthy deterioration. I used to read predictions of the collapse that almost promised civil war, even nuclear exchanges within the USSR. But by bringing it to a boil while they were still somewhat stable, Reagan made a more-or-less orderly transition possible.
    Sort of. I think most of the credit for a somewhat orderly transition may be more to the credit of Gorbachev and Yeltsin (after the collapse). Gorbachev himself said in an interview not too long ago he almost considered halting the reforms he started. Gorbachev could easily have gone the same route as Brezhnev...

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    Re: Would you name one U.S. president you really appreciate?

    Quote Originally Posted by palemale View Post
    Kennedy's foreign policy was not atrocious. The Berlin Wall was hardly Kennedy's fault. Did you expect him to go to war to remove it? The Bay of Pigs was a disaster and Kennedy should have called it off. Keep in mind, though, that it happened approxmately two months into his presidency.

    Kennedy did not escalate the Vietnam War. We had only military trainers in Vietnam when Kennedy was assassinated. I believe he had even ordered a reduction of American advisers in the last year of his presidency. The Gulf of Tonkin Resolution was in 1964, after which time LBJ escalated the war.

    Kennedy improved relations with Latin America and Africa. Created the Peace Corps. On balance, Kennedy had a successful foreign policy.
    Bay of Pigs was a disaster because JFK caved to advice to tell the Nicaraguan government to keep their planes and home and not go support the landing. Israel was involved somehow, but I've never quite understood how or why the were involved.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  42. #42
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    Re: Would you name one U.S. president you really appreciate?

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    Sort of. I think most of the credit for a somewhat orderly transition may be more to the credit of Gorbachev and Yeltsin (after the collapse). Gorbachev himself said in an interview not too long ago he almost considered halting the reforms he started. Gorbachev could easily have gone the same route as Brezhnev...
    True enough -- without a strong leader willing to shoot people if they didn't behave, the Soviets still could have had a civil war as the result. From the books I read, the most likely scenario would have been Army v KGB, a total "OMG WTF" sort of scenario.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  43. #43
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Would you name one U.S. president you really appreciate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    True enough -- without a strong leader willing to shoot people if they didn't behave, the Soviets still could have had a civil war as the result. From the books I read, the most likely scenario would have been Army v KGB, a total "OMG WTF" sort of scenario.
    Yea, Putin was too young at the time lol... but to think.. if the Soviet Union did hold on long enough... Putin probably would have rose through the ranks anyways and ended up in charge... and he's a former KGB man.

  44. #44
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    Re: Would you name one U.S. president you really appreciate?

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    Yea, Putin was too young at the time lol... but to think.. if the Soviet Union did hold on long enough... Putin probably would have rose through the ranks anyways and ended up in charge... and he's a former KGB man.
    Yeah, and a doctrinaire one lacking the imagination to see a way forward and the balls to follow through.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  45. #45

    Re: Would you name one U.S. president you really appreciate?

    Incredible . . . . a thread that asks the question which US President you really appreciate turns into which Soviet dictator do you really appreciate.

  46. #46
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    Re: Would you name one U.S. president you really appreciate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Incredible . . . . a thread that asks the question which US President you really appreciate turns into which Soviet dictator do you really appreciate.
    Gorbachev took far more risks and worked far harder to end dictatorship in his country and re-establish freedom in the USSR and eastern Europe than Reagan did, and more than Reagan could have even understood. Reagan was the man who smiled while history unfolded.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

  47. #47

    Re: Would you name one U.S. president you really appreciate?

    The discussion is about appreciated US Presidents.

  48. #48
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    Re: Would you name one U.S. president you really appreciate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    The discussion is about appreciated US Presidents.
    Exactly. And discussing how much Gorbachev had to do with a success generally attributed to Reagan is pertinent to how much Reagan should be appreciated.

    Reagan's contribution was twofold: he managed to give people behind the Iron Curtain hope that they actually could be free of the Soviet bear, while scaring the shit out of the Soviets enough that they broke their economy trying to build up their military to meet the danger of a madman (which is what they considered him). But that's a one-sided view, because without someone on the other side holding things together until they could be released peacefully, what Reagan did could well have resulted in the slaughter of tens of thousands.

    That's why I call what Reagan did with the Soviets a poker game: he had the balls to face down the bear, raising the stakes, without knowing it would end peacefully.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  49. #49
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Would you name one U.S. president you really appreciate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Incredible . . . . a thread that asks the question which US President you really appreciate turns into which Soviet dictator do you really appreciate.
    Actually my point about Gorbachev takes some of the gloss off Reagan's foreign policy record, which in my opinion is horrendous at it is. He had some bright spots with talks with Gorbachev, but elsewhere in the world his foreign policy was deplorable.

  50. #50
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    Re: Would you name one U.S. president you really appreciate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Incredible . . . . a thread that asks the question which US President you really appreciate turns into which Soviet dictator do you really appreciate.
    That's because contrary to popular nativist belief the U.S. doesn't exist in a bubble free of interaction and influence with the greater world community. Particularly when it comes to analyzing or praising/criticising a particular President's foreign policy.

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