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  1. #251
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: Gun ban back on Obama’s agenda

    Quote Originally Posted by Stardreamer View Post
    Then your are saying there has been no successful revolutionary civil wars since the invention of modern warfare?
    I'm saying you're not going to defeat a government with nuclear submarines, F-16's and nuclear silos with your handgun. This seems like common sense to me.

  2. #252
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Not one against a government with the military night of the US, that's for sure
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  3. #253
    auribus teneo lupum Stardreamer's Avatar
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    Re: Gun ban back on Obama’s agenda

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    I'm saying you're not going to defeat a government with nuclear submarines, F-16's and nuclear silos with your handgun. This seems like common sense to me.
    You are right by this much, a handful of revolutionaries armed with small arms by themselves are not going to defeat the US Military but that they aren't expected to. Such an uprising would fail unless it has the popular support of the people, in that they could be the fuse which is part of the point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Not one against a government with the military night of the US, that's for sure
    Russian Revolution of 1917

    Honestly any such revolution would only have a chance of success if the situation in the country had devolved into a situation where the military was not reliable and as likely to join the revolutionaries as suppress them.
    “You can’t con people, at least not for long. You can create excitement, you can do wonderful promotion and get all kinds of press, and you can throw in a little hyperbole. But if you don’t deliver the goods, people will catch on.”


  4. #254
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: Gun ban back on Obama’s agenda

    Quote Originally Posted by Stardreamer View Post
    You are right by this much, a handful of revolutionaries armed with small arms by themselves are not going to defeat the US Military but that they aren't expected to. Such an uprising would fail unless it has the popular support of the people, in that they could be the fuse which is part of the point.



    Russian Revolution of 1917

    Honestly any such revolution would only have a chance of success if the situation in the country had devolved into a situation where the military was not reliable and as likely to join the revolutionaries as suppress them.
    Agreed regarding the last comment... which is why I think having or not having totally unrestricted small arms is completely incidental, and not the cornerstone of whether or not a revolution today would succeed against our own government. That mindset is completely obsolete, it's the minuteman era from the colonies.

  5. #255
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: Gun ban back on Obama’s agenda

    That's my point as well. The Russians didn't have MOST of the weapons we have now in 1917. I mean, the technological and weapons advancement during WWI and II is probably comparable to all technological and weapons advancement in human history before that... Back then hand guns were relevant because you had similarly armed soldiers on the other side. Now you would have a drone pewpewlaserbeaming you from the sky.

    And as buzzer said, if the military were on your side, personal arms would STILL be irrelevant...

  6. #256
    auribus teneo lupum Stardreamer's Avatar
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    Re: Gun ban back on Obama’s agenda

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    That's my point as well. The Russians didn't have MOST of the weapons we have now in 1917. I mean, the technological and weapons advancement during WWI and II is probably comparable to all technological and weapons advancement in human history before that... Back then hand guns were relevant because you had similarly armed soldiers on the other side. Now you would have a drone pewpewlaserbeaming you from the sky.

    And as buzzer said, if the military were on your side, personal arms would STILL be irrelevant...
    Not necessarily, in that situation most often the military isn't going to just come all over to your side, if they did you would have a Turkish style bloodless coup. An armed populous with popular support could rise up and gain enough support from sympathetic military personnel to neutralize the advantage of the army and turn the conflict into a full scale civil war. That is the more likely situation. It would be bloody and terrible and I hope it would never have to happen but an armed uprising would be start of it and an unarmed population can be put down easier before it reaches that stage.
    “You can’t con people, at least not for long. You can create excitement, you can do wonderful promotion and get all kinds of press, and you can throw in a little hyperbole. But if you don’t deliver the goods, people will catch on.”


  7. #257
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: Gun ban back on Obama’s agenda

    Quote Originally Posted by Stardreamer View Post
    Not necessarily, in that situation most often the military isn't going to just come all over to your side, if they did you would have a Turkish style bloodless coup. An armed populous with popular support could rise up and gain enough support from sympathetic military personnel to neutralize the advantage of the army and turn the conflict into a full scale civil war. That is the more likely situation. It would be bloody and terrible and I hope it would never have to happen but an armed uprising would be start of it and an unarmed population can be put down easier before it reaches that stage.
    So strictly the fact that they have handguns is going to convince half the military to join them in a revolution?

    C'mon.

  8. #258
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: Gun ban back on Obama’s agenda

    What's weirder is that the type of bloodshed is undesirable by anyone, so why jeep the guns?

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