Tell me more about Andreus

[bankside]

I find the idea of looking up the death certificate of an internet stranger to prove a point on a discussion forum to require no rebuttal other than to simply draw attention to the statement.

[BostonPirate]

BP, do you have an approximate date of death please, say within 3 or 4 days either way, and a place of death in Greece. That way we can clear it up, and I will humbly apologise to you.

I don't know you and I have NO reason to trust you. NONE.

IF you are a stalker of some sort of his, then you are the LAST person I will be disclosing personal info about to. It's just that simple. You didn't know him by your own estimation. He was a major part of your life for years and yet he never NOTICED YOU?

Are you kidding me?

And you want his death certificate? Really? Don't you think international courts will be involved in that endeavor?

[justaguy]

I find the idea of looking up the death certificate of an internet stranger to prove a point on a discussion forum to require no rebuttal other than to simply draw attention to the statement.

In NZ anyone can order anyone's death certificate. BP has already told us everything he knows of his life.
All the same, I actually wouldn't need to get the certificate itself. It would be in the indexes.
Although I guess it does sound a bit morbid when I think about it.

[tombastep]

Hypothetically?

Hypothetically you are doing the exact thing you profess you are trying to stop. You're outrageous. This for you is revenge, as it is the other aliases that are on the attack in this thread.

Who said I was trying to stop it? I was stating that I have a problem with it. Stopping it is unrealistic and my points are that I understood why people would be skeptical. You're taking the defensive with me more than you actually have to, I wasn't even the one who claimed you were Andreus. And what are you even on about when it comes to revenge? When I get irritated or constantly conflict with people on here I put them on ignore.

I have my own skepticisms about you as well, champ.

That's nice.

@Tombastep:

Does the memory of Kahil change things?

I'm asking because i don't know.

Kahil doesn't make it mean that Andreus was more real or fake I just remember a lot of the drama that surrounded him.

[ibill1]

I'm bored today, big day tomorrow, and read this entire thread. Sad, very sad. I have no idea who you all are talking about but it is very strange for someone who has not been around in a long while. I have met many fascinating people in my life but no one that would cause me so much angst. Bp professes to have known this fellow and I am at a loss as to why anyone would doubt what knowledge he felt comfortable sharing. All the talk of the aliases is what is truly sad. What purpose does it serve to pretend to be someone else? I wouldn't want to meet said individuals.

[borg69unimatrix]

BP, do you have an approximate date of death please, say within 3 or 4 days either way, and a place of death in Greece. That way we can clear it up, and I will humbly apologise to you. And I, for one, will rest knowing that the incredible story was actually real.
<edit> You should probably add his full name as well.

I think giving out someone's full name, alive or dead would be a major faux pas. The guy is dead. Let him rest in peace. And if he's not dead, ultimately, what does it really matter? Let it go, and move on.

[G-Lexington]

And say you find it in the index. Then presumably a "sorry bro", and everything's hunky dory. You of course will maintain your anonymity, since that's not to be questioned.

Actually, no. I do question it. I demand to see your birth certificate.

Lex

[justaguy]

IF you are a stalker of some sort of his, then you are the LAST person I will be disclosing personal info about to. It's just that simple. You didn't know him by your own estimation. He was a major part of your life for years and yet he never NOTICED YOU?

What makes you think he never noticed me? I'm assuming he didn't, but I have no idea. He posted with me. We commented on each others posts.

[BostonPirate]

In NZ anyone can order anyone's death certificate. BP has already told us everything he knows of his life.
All the same, I actually wouldn't need to get the certificate itself. It would be in the indexes.
Although I guess it does sound a bit morbid when I think about it.

What nations did he die in, have you considered that? I don't believe it is New Zealand.

What nations do not allow biohazards to be shipped in and out of its ports and which do? Answer those questions, and if you find he is alive, I will reduce what chances he has at a happy life to nill for the rest of his existence.

But you can't and you wont.

[justaguy]

Ok guys. I have taken your points on board. T'was a suggestion, but your points are fair enough.
I will leave it there.

[MidnightPrism]

There was another guy from the south that he really liked, but his brother and his health sort of took that away.

Dreu was certainly something special.

[BostonPirate]

Dreu was certainly something special.

The handsome southern gentleman I presume? You are the rare unicorn that got his attention. Fascinating.

He was infatuated with you. You brought him a lot of joy when he was unreachable to all of us.

Thank you.

[MidnightPrism]

Handsome southern gentleman? That might be the biggest compliment I have ever received Chatting with Dreu helped get both of us through several rough spots.

Oddly enough, Kahil and I are friends on several social networking sites.

[JohannBessler]

^What happened to Kahil?

(By the way, you and he must think the debate in this thread absolutely insane.)

[MidnightPrism]

He just chose to stop participating here ((or was banned permanently). I've been around too long to remember.

The internet is what it is. There will always be mistrust, people using fake personas, and people being accused as fakes.

[ozguy]

^^ A very good note on which to close this thread, IMHO!

[Telstra]

Who has laughed besides you? Where would that be?

Believe me, I am not amused, and you are one of the people that I find most disturbing.

That is a LOL coz it is not true.

[Telstra]

That's actually not a bad idea. All it needs is a date and place of death. If I can get that info, I'll see if I can get the death certificate. I'd like to clear it up in my own mind.

Nah thats go too far. Let it rest.
Its only the internet for goodness sake.

[Telstra]

I'm bored today, big day tomorrow, and read this entire thread. Sad, very sad. I have no idea who you all are talking about but it is very strange for someone who has not been around in a long while. I have met many fascinating people in my life but no one that would cause me so much angst. Bp professes to have known this fellow and I am at a loss as to why anyone would doubt what knowledge he felt comfortable sharing. All the talk of the aliases is what is truly sad. What purpose does it serve to pretend to be someone else? I wouldn't want to meet said individuals.

I wasn't skeptical.
It was Hooderat's idea that brings the skeptics out of me because he is an experienced JUBBER.

[Kyanimal]

I have NO doubts that Dreu, Mitri, and Kahil (previously known as "Curious George"), were, and are, quite Real! I also contend that BP and MP actually exist, too! And, NO!, none of them post like the others! And, Enchanted being Dreu? Not even a shadow thereof!

I would 'banter' with Adreus, and Kahil, in thread posts. But, then Dreu and I would move to PMs. And he was a more 'gentle' guy in Private. We had a lot of interesting discussions. We chatted about many things beyond the realms of JUB. His loss left a small hole in my heart, even though I was never fortunate enough to have met him IRL. He was very kind to this Old Guy!

I also chatted with Mitri a bit. I was not aware of his 'challenges'. After Dreu's passing, I forwarded Mitri one of Dreu's PMs, talking about what he thought of his younger brother. Mitri replied that he had no idea how Dreu really felt about him. I thought it was the least I could do.

Yep, Folks! I'm fairly sure all these guys are/were Real! Well ... at least as 'Real' as any of us are.

All the more reasons to ... no matter what ...

Keep smilin'!!
Chaz

[justaguy]

As far as I'm concerned, I've been bitten by a JUB fake previously, hence my nastiness in this thread, which isn't really my nature, and which I apologise for.

[JohannBessler]

^We all make errors in judgment, justaguy. <gives justaguy a bearhug>

But rest assured--Andreus was as real as you and I. I mourn his loss.

[Kahaih]

As it turns out, I do have four pictures that Drue posted. Although he has tats and piercings, he looks very young.

The embedded info says they’re from 2004. There is also some other info embedded in them, so I won’t be putting them up on this or any other site.

[pat grimshaw]

.... I will scan the picture of him I have on the wall in my office and post it tomorrow. ..

As it turns out, I do have four pictures that Drue posted. .. There is also some other info embedded in them, so I won’t be putting them up on this or any other site.

Excuses, excuses!!

[rushoverme]

I remember all this drama (I had a profile back then)

I never knew if he was real or fake. I remember he got shot overseas and recovered, then got diagnosed with HIV.

I also remember that his brother joined and posted before he died.

He first was dating this guy (just googled for his old blog) http://www.beautifulmag.com/beautifu...ful_blogg.html

the guy was banned from JUB and they broke up. Then he was dating this guy http://midnightprism.blogspot.com when he died



It was like a soap opera

[blackbeltninja]

Wait...

So Enchanted quite happily put up with all the shit and drama and accusations and sniping directly at him associated with his other threads, but after starting THIS one and all its mudslinging he decided to self-delete?

The mind boggles.

-d-

[Hard-up1]

Kahil still has web sites available for those who are interested, and lives in LA with a partner who is ill.

Andreus wasn't a god by any means, just a really highly torqued impassioned poster.

It is fair to miss him, whether he was authentic or not, whether he was Dmitri or not, whether he lives or not. We enjoyed his postings, his antics, and his presence.

Celebrating life doesn't have to be based on truth or reality. It was great, whether it was as contrived as a movie plot or authentic.

Thanks for the memories, Andreus Thanos.

[Kyanimal]

^ Very well put, Hard-up1!

[Sex Kitten]

Wow,I discoverd something very interesting about this case.
Still,maybe it's to early to open my mouth,as I'm not completly sure.Maybe it's only coincidence.

[bankside]

Wow,I discoverd something very interesting about this case.
Still,maybe it's to early to open my mouth,as I'm not completly sure.Maybe it's only coincidence.

ON another site, that would be called "vaguebooking."

[justaguy]

I don't want to lose good friends because of my views, but I'm actually quite passionate about this.

I've only always been on JUB to make connections with real gay and bisexual people. When Andreus was going through his problems, I actually thought about him quite a bit. I don't believe that to be fair, if it wasn't true. Sure there's stuff like sloppyseconds around, but he's obvious and is not connecting with other jubbers, or impacting on their lives.

There really is heaps of stuff to make me sceptical, even in this thread.

For example, he was supposed to be conscious of his body, not thinking it was good enough, and yet he apparently enjoyed walking around nude in front of others. Doesn't make sense.

Mitri has a mental disability, and yet after Andreus' death, he travels from Greece to the United States to live (let alone whether immigration would even let him in). And then do you guys remember when Andreus was in hospital, how we were all so concerned we rallied around organising a card from JUB to send to the hospital? Mitri came on and told us not to do it because his parents didn't know Andreus was gay. And yet in this thread, his father apparently blamed Andreus for making Mitri gay. Which is it? The father knew or the father didn't know? And also with Mitri's disability, although in broken English, his posts were always very intelligent, and in the same short, one paragraph sentence, posting style as Andreus

There is much more I can say, but these are the sorts of things that have made me sceptical. I also think it fair that its ok to express such scepticism. I much prefer to find to truth, if there is doubt. Kahil having websites doesn't cut it.

[Sex Kitten]

Before I decide to reveal something,I have to talk with some people on here that knew him better.
And,don't pm me.I know who I have to talk with.

[Hard-up1]

"Believing" or not believing anything about Andreus should certainly not be the basis of anyone's JUB friendship. Reasonable men agree to disagree.

[Kyanimal]

Wow,I discoverd something very interesting about this case.
Still,maybe it's to early to open my mouth,as I'm not completly sure.Maybe it's only coincidence.

There seem to be a Lot of 'coincidences'. And, though I'd be interested in hearing more about them, I'm still thinking they are all simply that ... Coincidences! Then again ... what do ANY of "Us" REALLY Know for Sure sure?

Another thing I'd like to hear about is how You became interested in all of this in the First place.

Keep smilin'!!
Chaz

[Kyanimal]

I don't want to lose good friends because of my views, but I'm actually quite passionate about this.

There is much more I can say, but these are the sorts of things that have made me sceptical. I also think it fair that its ok to express such scepticism. I much prefer to find to truth, if there is doubt. Kahil having websites doesn't cut it.

There is NO reason you should loose "good friends" because of your views! Because, if that should happen, then they weren't "friends" to begin with, let alone "good" ones!

Good Friends encourage each other to freely express themselves!

Granted, I'm not as skeptical when perhaps I should be. However, that's just not My nature. No one has to Earn my Trust. Everyone has that until they do something to lose it. And, even then, it takes quite a bit to accomplish that. And, given the nature of the internet, I'll also grant I may be being too naive/optimistic!

I guess ... all the more reasons to ... no matter what ...

Keep smilin'!!
Chaz

[stacy]

None of this is real.

It is the Matrix and we are all pod people being controlled by the JUB Machines.

Porn. Argue. Whine. Troll. Porn. Argue. Whine. Troll. It's the perfect way to sustain their energy. People who are no longer with us, either in death or just disappearance, took the red pill and got out.

[Hard-up1]

What if we don't believe in pod?

What if Pod is dead?

There is no pod.

[stacy]

It is the only way I can get my mind to understand the goings on of the interwebs. If this really is humanity I don't want to live on this planet anymore.

[pat grimshaw]

^
Good-bye

[stacy]

Sorry to burst your bubble folks, but I'm not leaving again. I am the perfect source of energy for the pods.

[G-Lexington]

But you're almost in quadruple digits!

Lex

[stacy]

Better STFU for a while again then

[G-Lexington]

Odd that you're one of the current JUBbers I've met in the flesh. So you know I'm real (on some level). Maybe The rest of JUB s my own creation. If so, any suggestions or pointers?

Lex

[stacy]

The truth is, we can all argue that we are real in some way. If Andreus was the creation of a JUBber and not "real" in the flesh, he WAS real to the person who created him and the people who were touched by him, whether that be negatively or positively.

I know that there are people here that are real. You, for instance, among a handful of others I have seen in person. But every once in a while I still catch myself wondering if I made up certain people in my mind.

That does not make the incarnation any less real to us that experienced it.

I don't think it's good to feel duped by the people that "get" us. Or weary of making connections to others in the future. If you really wanted to make real and true connections you would go to a public bar, club, sports event, something that brings real people in the flesh to gather together and share a common hobby or whatnot.

You cannot get pissed off at anyone for not being real on the Internet. This isn't the local watering hole. It's a place where people come to be hidden, to be not themselves. That's a lesson I had to learn the hard way.

[G-Lexington]

It's like a furry convention, or sci-fi, or cosplay. We all dress up in the outfit we want before joining in. And it's not always clear how much the costume reflects the wearer. And sometimes people decide they love the costume, and it puts the wearer in a bind. Do they keep the costume on, or do they start revealing who's wearing it?

Lex

[borg69unimatrix]

I don't think it's good to feel duped by the people that "get" us. Or weary of making connections to others in the future. If you really wanted to make real and true connections you would go to a public bar, club, sports event, something that brings real people in the flesh to gather together and share a common hobby or whatnot.

The bars *I* have been to, those people might be "in the flesh", but VERY FEW of them are any more 'real' then the cyber manifestations here. Often times those people also put on the face of whom they wish they were, hiding the baggage and insecurities and self doubts that make up who they really are on a day to day basis.

Anyone can be civil for a couple hours/short term.

Back stabbers and parasites are all over, in cyber space, and in real life.

[stacy]

Edit: ^ I was going to mention that even in real life we put on faces and personalities to attract people. But we tend to be harder on ourselves for believing someone was real when we are taken for a ride on the Internet rather than that too good to be true dude at the bar. I think it's that internal "I should have known better" thing.

It is how we react to actors as well. People cry and scream and stomp their feet when they find out Keanu Reeves is not Neo, Anthony Hopkins does not eat human livers with fava beans and chianti. Etc, etc.

My advice is simple. Lower your expectations. Decide if you are OK with the incarnation of the "person" on the other end, real or not and go with it. And then don't get mad when they turn out to be nothing like what you expected or what they said they were.

[justaguy]

You cannot get pissed off at anyone for not being real on the Internet. This isn't the local watering hole. It's a place where people come to be hidden, to be not themselves. That's a lesson I had to learn the hard way.

I actually think for a lot of people it's the opposite. JUB is a place some gay guys come to to first explore the real them. It's a place where people can come to to connect to the gay world, and then hopefully discover it's not as scary as they originally thought (as far as some of the forums go anyway - other forums are just where they can look at some dirty pics). It's far better to have real gay and bisexual jubbers, and their real lives, however mundane they are. I know most of the people I know on here are real because their lives are just as mundane as mine. If they are godlike in appearance, mannerisms and personality, they have gone to Iraq as a bodyguard, been shot, become a prostitute, stop taking antivirals during ramadan, drop your brother downs some stairs giving him a head injury, and disappear without telling anyone (as an example), thats when you have to start wondering about realness.

[stacy]

^If we take out all forums here at JUB other than Coming Out & Relationships I would agree with you. But if HT is the barometer for how real gay men behave in life, I weep for humanity.

It used to be one of my many crusades to "fix" JUB by insisting people stop hating on one another and scaring the fuck out of the lurkers who are using the site as their first exposure to the gay world. I was hung by my thumbnails and tarred and feathered for hoping I could make that difference.

Meeting other gay men behind the scenes, that is one thing. Interacting the way many people do, even in this thread alone, should not be an example of how gay people behave outside of the internet. All of the men in my life are gay. None of them treat each other with the disdain and indecency people here treat each other with.

That's why I have learned to accept JUB as a heightened version of whatever reality the members have chosen to create for themselves. This is not the place to learn about how to behave. I know there are worse forums than this. But if people are relying on this site to teach them how to behave, I have a major sad.

[JohannBessler]

^I think that, online, we develop schemas on people--we have an idea of their personality, based on what they say, and build it into a schema of their personality, when in fact, we have projected our own internal ideas of their personality into that schema.

When we meet them offline--or, alternately, when we discuss indepth ideas with them online--oftentimes that scheme does not match reality, and disappointment--or pleasant surprise--can seep in.

Put another way, offline personalities don't always match online personalities.