Tell me more about Andreus

[-Callum-]

Tossing in my (worthless) two cents...

I don't know how anyone has time, energy or just genuine effort to create a fake online identity. I understand the Internet's anonymity can allow the creative to spin a few tales but holy shit, I can't imagine spending a significant period of time pretending to be someone I'm not. A generic psychology/sociology magazine or thesis will tell you every person is a 'little different' online, which is a theory I wholeheartedly embrace, but good Lord...I was on a movie forum in high school - so about six years back - and went on not too long ago to see how things have changed and apparently someone was ratted out as living as someone completely different than who they were for a whopping nine years. Nine years of frequent logins with pictures of someone else, updates on their non-existent life. Isn't that exhausting?

Reminds me of that one guy a few years back here on JUB that was outed (haha, see what I did there) as being fake despite weaving an elaborate tale for several years. He ended up being a wrestler from Columbia, lawyer at Yale and all that jazz...still posts here under a different identity (I know what that one is, don't remember the original username, someone help me out here). Whoever he was, he was a good-looking guy but his pictures, as JUB eventually discovered, were used on Craigslist and a plethora of other sites. Then the impostor vehemently denied the accusations and tried to lie his way out of it and being silly, naive I actually believed him and we e-mailed outside of the site. Turns out he's some construction worker. Sad way to lead a social life...

I wasn't around when Andreus was so I can't comment on him.

[HunterM]

This thread is a MUST read for all new JUBers! It's like a new employee orientation. It has history, mystery, CSI all roll into one. It's a good way to know the cast of characters on this site.

[xbuzzerx]

Point of fact, this thread is about Andreus, with the OP asking people to tell him more about the poster. It became a witch hunt thread when someone began pondering the fact that Andreus was simply the product of someone's active imagination. Then it became 15 pages of people conspiracy theorizing about every poster involved in the thread.

It has never been about sockpuppets and fake posters. It turned into that when the accusations began to fly.

From what I'm seeing in this thread several people always thought things about Andreus didn't add up, and were often herd-silenced about it back when Andreus was a comet in the forums.

I don't know that that summation of the thread is accurate. I do get that's how you've taken it but as someone not invested one cent into whether or not Andreus was real or fake I don't feel that's what happened in the thread.

[QUOTE=weinerslav;8530659]

I actually have a question, I hope it doesn't seem inappropriate or plain ignorant, the positive post started in January, the disappearance was in September so, let's say that since getting infected and dying was a year or maybe a year and a half? It seems a reasonable period of time for all the events take place, as told... Would this really be possible? I'm not sure but even in the beginnings of the disease (in the early 80's) this would be seen as a really quick evolution no? This period for all this kind of events it's plausible? Specially knowing that he was medicated and only interrupted, whatever, during the Ramadan. I'm only asking because I really don't have a clue and if yes, I hadn't the idea of the condition still represent this kind of danger

That's an interesting way to look at it, one of the main "inconsistencies" that the munchausen by internet article mentioned was a misunderstanding on the part of the fake persona about how their illnesses work-- i.e. someone claiming to be writing while in great pain from toxic shock when it is very unlikely someone in that physical condition would be able to sit and type anyway.

And Mitri:

- had behavioural problems from an open air head wound
- fell down a flight of stairs
- was convicted of arson
- is now in prison

^ All that from what BostonPirate said in the first page of this thread.

And leaving aside the fact that I've NEVER known in the history of JUB for there to be two brothers on this site, much less two gay ones (unless anyone can correct me on that)

I do wish that BostonPirate would come back in here and answer a few of these legitimate points that people are making. Although to be fair, I can see why he's now avoiding this thread. Whether he's true or false it'd be like the Spanish Inquisition, lol.

I've seen big fake-sonas outed (or suspected) many times since first joining the net and I have to say this thread has been fantastically civil. This isn't a thread full of people making impassioned rants about how DARE that person abuse my trust, or other threats and high passions about how angry or betrayed people are.

I'd go so far as to say if Andreus IS fake, and was perpetuated falsely by someone else on JUB, this thread was the most civil, calm examination of that possibility I've ever seen on the internet. Hardly the Spanish Inquisition.

[JohannBessler]

^I agree.

Everybody (including me, btw) held their tongue.

[Corny]

Enchanted is not BostonPirate - this has been confirmed before.

From what I'm seeing in this thread several people always thought things about Andreus didn't add up, and were often herd-silenced about it back when Andreus was a comet in the forums.

Correct.

I'm almost certain that an individual needs to log in, to show activity in a user account, and I'm not a Mod. What Quasar has asked about, I think, is whether a Mod actually has the power to override the password of a user account, in any way, to access an account.

Admins can *change* a password - for people who have forgotten theirs but can claim that they are the person behind it in another way (you'll also get the password change e-mail). We cannot see or read a password since only the password hashes are stored in the database (google it ).

When someone reported this yesterday, I was afraid that this accidentally could have been me, since before I abandoned the thread, I checked the galleries in his account from the admin console, in an attempt to find a certain pic that he had once posted. But to be sure, yesterday I did the same with another long inactive account and his last activity still shows up as August last year - so browsing/managing the galleries from the admin console does NOT trigger this. Now the question is whether a failed login *attempt* already does it .. (like someone trying to log in) - so far I haven't found an answer.

Somebody else asked the IP question...I've logged into JUB from various IP's because I do a lot of traveling and am often far from my home IP. (I don't have, nor have ever had, any desire to post under anything besides my primary - and only - username here...or elsewhere on the internet.)

That's not a problem at all. Also you have visited a few JUBbers and ex-JUBbers in your travels, we immediately knew



I'm not sure if there is any worth to keep this thread open. As of now, we can't judge for sure what happened. Also please don't stalk Kahil, as it already has been mentioned, it is certain that they never met. Most likely he is pretty innocent in all this and was fooled as well.

[Anders123]

I checked the galleries in his account from the admin console, in an attempt to find a certain pic that he had once posted.

Wait, does this mean admins can see my private gallery?

Brb, deleting everything.

[Telstra]

This thread is a MUST read for all new JUBers! It's like a new employee orientation. It has history, mystery, CSI all roll into one. It's a good way to know the cast of characters on this site.

Am i a member of the cast ?
I never act on camera before ...

[LaughOutLoud]

@ Corny

I think keeping this thread going until a certain degree of "closure" is felt by most involved would be best.

There are still many questions waiting to be answered, and having read all of the posts in this thread and a lot of the posts in the thread dedicated to him in the Garden of Memories, it's clear that a lot of people on JUB had quite an attachment to this person/persona, and unfortunately, it looks like they've all been duped.

To save the same questions coming up from time-to-time, I say leave the thread going and allow for all involved to either get the answers/closure they need, or until they become naturally bored and tired with the subject - at which point the thread will slip off the first page and disappear

[JohannBessler]

@Corny:

Failed log-ins don't count. I just wasted 4 out of 5 login attempts with a made-up password. I looked again at Andreus's profile. No dice. The last log-in stayed the same at November 26, 2012.

That can only mean one thing: the puppeteer logged on.

So I guess there's no place for this thread to go. "The fat lady has sung".

[frankfrank]

My knowledge is limited but as I recall, in the 1980s the period from diagnosis to death could be six months, whereas post-1996, patients are living upwards of two decades and we haven't seen the lifespan ceiling yet because the disease is still young.

I don't think there's any hard-and-fast "formula" that says how long people will survive after they start exhibiting symptoms of HIV. We have Magic Johnson in that group, and somebody else can quickly get the "wrong" opportunistic disease and perhaps not be able to get treatment when it's most effective, or the disease could whack that person easier than somebody else because he also has diabetes or gets an infection from the hospital, or he falls, or he also catches some "normal" illness such as a bad cold on top of all his other problems, etc. Often AIDS can be "managed" for the rest of a natural lifetime if done carefully, but I remember that the "cocktail" all had to be taken at intervals, one of the drugs might interact with another, some had to be taken with food, some not with food - skipping or forgetting a dose or being ten hours late with it could have caused the disease to get too much of a foothold, etc.

I assume that, if somebody cannot get good treatment or is lax on managing his/her treatment, terrible outcomes like this still happen.

how come the mods won't do an ip check on bostonpirate, enchanted and andreus to see if their ips area match? something tells me that all three of them are connected. i'm beginning to think that the guy known as enchanted doesn't exist and might very well be the creation of the same guy andreus. bostonpirate as far as i'm concerned has some explaining to do. him ducking only indicates guilt.

I am thinking it's very possible that Enchanted does [did, well, before SexKitten] exist - we know there ARE people out there who think like he does.

If ONLY Andreus and Enchanted/SexKitten came out of the same mind, that alone is enough to make me think that the creator of these personas has a very interesting and brilliant mind. It takes a lot of skill in composition, role playing, etc. for somebody to convince nearly all of us that TWO such different people exist. Thinking back on Enchanted's own account deletion, then his reappearance under another name (and NOT trying to hide that he had been Enchanted), that didn't *seem* to be how I would expect a sockpuppet to behave. But then we can't really know...because sockpuppetology is a very poorly developed science.

Creating multiple sock puppets, and having enough control to keep the attributes of one from merging with the other, is challenging as well.

Now, if Andreus/Mitri, Enchanted, and BostonPirate *ALL* came out of the same mind...wow. Four people all very different from each other in their ways (though Mitri wasn't around quite enough for us to "know" him very well, and he may have come to seem much more like Andreus if I had read more of him and done so when I wasn't in a big hurry or something). Even that, if Andreus and Mitri were both sockpuppets, the fact that Andreus was pretty much ALWAYS around and Mitri was only here very intermittently, even THAT is strange for sockpuppets. *IF* it were to come about that all four of these came from the SAME mind, my best guess is that BP is the one who is "the real deal" if only that his posts in C E & P, which often went into deep politics that were well off the radar, would be difficult for somebody to impersonate if it isn't their true set of beliefs.

I don't feel "cheated" in any way. Duped, yes, but this is the internet and it comes with the territory. Though I don't remember for sure and I sure-as-hell can't prove it, I think that I learned something (and, therefore, improved my life by at least some minimal amount) from these guys.

Also, if the same person came up with ALL of these characters (and maybe MissPatrickCampbell??), he/she doesn't belong on JUB at all. NO, NOT BECAUSE OF DECEPTION AND STUFF, that's not the reason. That person needs to be out there, writing books. Why would somebody waste time here, when they have a mind that could probably be producing 250,000-units-sold books?

Tossing in my (worthless) two cents...

I don't know how anyone has time, energy or just genuine effort to create a fake online identity. I understand the Internet's anonymity can allow the creative to spin a few tales but holy shit, I can't imagine spending a significant period of time pretending to be someone I'm not.

THIS. And thus the reason why I simply find this entire phenomenon interesting. Extreme role-playing, which I'm entirely no good at (even on a small scale), is something that just fascinates me - like how do people do this? Let alone your comment; it DOES take a lot of time and it's very possible that the puppetry was much less a flow of consciousness than it sometimes appeared to be. If it's not somebody's nature to be "that way" (like the role that is being played), everything has to be written fairly carefully to remain convincing.

I'd go so far as to say if Andreus IS fake, and was perpetuated falsely by someone else on JUB, this thread was the most civil, calm examination of that possibility I've ever seen on the internet. Hardly the Spanish Inquisition.

NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition!!!

[blackbeltninja]

No reason to lock the thread, though. Other threads aren't locked by default - the rise in necro-posting over the last couple of months is proof of that.

-d-

[Gimmecat]

Oh wow so he did have a recent log-in, but wasn't he supposed to be...you know -- dead?

[ozguy]

Peto_Antoni ..... who remembers him?? Seem to recall a fair bit of drama on the boards when he was posting. Hmmmmm, I wonder ...........

[justaguy]

*IF* it were to come about that all four of these came from the SAME mind, my best guess is that BP is the one who is "the real deal" if only that his posts in C E & P, which often went into deep politics that were well off the radar, would be difficult for somebody to impersonate if it isn't their true set of beliefs.

There's always the possibility that Boston Pirate is the real deal, but was just pretending to know Andreus in order to improve in the popularity stakes??

[Corny]

^ No, not related. Certain mods and I do check stuff like this regularly. Some members also have been helpful in delivering hints in the past. Not every weird person is a sock puppet

Wait, does this mean admins can see my private gallery?

Brb, deleting everything.

Well if you think about it for a minute, we *have* to be able to see them in some way. I'll leave it to you to figure out why (and since you mentioned it .. I had to check .. oh my )

@ Corny

I think keeping this thread going until a certain degree of "closure" is felt by most involved would be best.

There are still many questions waiting to be answered, and having read all of the posts in this thread and a lot of the posts in the thread dedicated to him in the Garden of Memories, it's clear that a lot of people on JUB had quite an attachment to this person/persona, and unfortunately, it looks like they've all been duped.

To save the same questions coming up from time-to-time, I say leave the thread going and allow for all involved to either get the answers/closure they need, or until they become naturally bored and tired with the subject - at which point the thread will slip off the first page and disappear

The thing is, that unless someone comes forward with a definite proof in one way or another, we can't answer those questions. And when people start mining for private information of people involved back then, who have long moved on, this worries me more than the need for closure.

[medic1]

^The only one who could have posted under Andreus's profile is Andreus himself.

That gives us conclusive proof.

Why does that give us conclusive proof ? Just a question not a flame.......... .

All he had to do was give his password to someone else , or as others think an alter -ego username/member himself .

[LaughOutLoud]

Corny,

Fair enough. In that case, perhaps just a gentle reminder of the rules on JUB against mining for information, then everyone can sit back, twiddling their thumbs, waiting for someone to reveal all the answers.....something I can't see happening until Boston Pirate logs back into the site.

That to one side, it should serve as a fairly useful vehicle for those "accused" to defend themselves.....??

As long as there's no rule breaking, I don't see the harm in an open (and to some extent, honest) discussion.

[rareboy]

Originally Posted by BostonPirate
Sorry, I can't find a picture of him on my computer, guys.

I will check with a moderator or admin to make sure that it's ok, and if it is, I will scan the picture of him I have on the wall in my office and post it tomorrow. ...

Perhaps we can still convince BP to scan the pic he has of Andreus and post it? Or did the mods say 'No'?

[Hard-up1]

How very odd that there is any thought of closing down a civil thread.

The log-in to Andreus' account was a tease, btw, whether it was done by a friend of Andreus', a puppet-master, a mod, or by Andreus himself. And, look how well it worked.

Trust me, if the person or persona could resist not logging in since the time when Andreus "died," this thread wasn't so tempting that he could not resist. It was a ploy, plain and simple.

[-Callum-]

Oops, looks like I missed five pages of this thread. The impostor in question was Nik2. I thought he was a law student at Yale but ravenstar said he was a medical student instead? Sweet baby Jesus I don't know how people have time to spin these webs.

[HunterM]

Andreus may be a real personality in a person with multiple personalities...like Tara.

[rareboy]

The Andreus account log-in is too co-incidental and convenient.

It must have been something that Corny or another mod/admin did inadvertently. Or 'advertently'. Just to tease the posters here.

I would say though that the trajectory between diagnosis and death....and even the reasons given for demise....always struck me as beyond the scope of melodrama. Only someone who had been HIV+ for some time and had been on no medications whatsoever would have been prone to catastrophic pneumocystis in 2007.

And there is no proscription in Islam against medications.

And I remind everyone, that not eating between sun-up or sundown does not mean that someone is starving all through Ramadan.

[rareboy]

^ No, not related. Certain mods and I do check stuff like this regularly. Some members also have been helpful in delivering hints in the past. Not every weird person is a sock puppet

So you are categorically stating that BP is/was not Andreus?

If he isn't, then he deserves to be allowed to disembark the tumbrel.

[JohannBessler]

Peto_Antoni ..... who remembers him?? Seem to recall a fair bit of drama on the boards when he was posting. Hmmmmm, I wonder ...........

I remember Peto Antonio very well. He stood out because he, too, was supposed to be "huge".

Peto had several pictures of his huge member in his profile. One time, I decided to take a closer look.

It turned out that all the pictures of his huge member had been Photoshopped. I know this because I found, buried deep in his photo album, a non-photoshopped picture of the same penis. The 10-inch penis had "mysteriously" shrunk to five inches at most.

Somehow, he'd forgotten to delete it.

[JohannBessler]

How very odd that there is any thought of closing down a civil thread.

The log-in to Andreus' account was a tease, btw, whether it was done by a friend of Andreus', a puppet-master, a mod, or by Andreus himself. And, look how well it worked.

Trust me, if the person or persona could resist not logging in since the time when Andreus "died," this thread wasn't so tempting that he could not resist. It was a ploy, plain and simple.

I wondered about that, Hard-up.

There seems little doubt that the puppeteer logged in. The question is: why?

He could have logged in to tease us, but I doubt it. There would have been too big a chance that no one would have noticed this "recent activity". In fact, I see it as sheer coincidence that somebody DID notice.

It seems more likely that something existed on Andreus's profile that the puppeteer wanted to delete. A picture, perhaps? We'll probably never know.

[Hard-up1]

No. It was a ploy. The one logging on, be it JUB staff, Andreus, or a proxy, knew it would be seen. It was sheer wow factor. Irresistible for someone out there.

[weinerslav]

There seems little doubt that the puppeteer logged in.

Nonsense, it seems very obvious that this forum is sooooo good it can't actually raise the dead

It seems more likely that something existed on Andreus's profile that the puppeteer wanted to delete. A picture, perhaps? We'll probably never know.

That is a very good point, if the login was made by the owner, I doubt that he had any interest in raising even more suspicion on himself so, probably there was something there to hide/delete.

Another thing, someone said before that that login was made the same day that bostonpirate posted the last time, maybe he had the password or was able to guess it since he knew him so well? Or their where the same?

[Corny]

So you are categorically stating that BP is/was not Andreus?

If he isn't, then he deserves to be allowed to disembark the tumbrel.

No, jag's post came in between - my line was referring to ozguy throwing peto_antoni into the conspiracy mix.

[borg69unimatrix]

I'm sure that if something was changed/deleted off Adreus' profile, there would be some kind of record as to what changed the Mod's could see.

[HoodedRat]

From what I'm seeing in this thread several people always thought things about Andreus didn't add up, and were often herd-silenced about it back when Andreus was a comet in the forums.

Not several ... more like dozens.

Even before the ludicrous Kahil relationship thing dominated the forum for months on end, many of us were either suspicious or were utterly convinced that Andreus was a total fraud playing the forum for his own amusement, and thus not really worth bothering to take seriously.

Most of those people, many of them part of the old uppity Brit crowd, are long gone but, to be honest, when I made my first post (#2) in this thread I actually expected loads of people to support me and say they knew it all along. Several did, privately in comments (thank you).

I think many of Andreus's fanboys were probably completely unaware how thoroughly unpleasant he could be via comment and PMs. He frequently played 'the race' and 'religion' cards whenever it suited him, threatening to report people to the mods and crying 'foul' at the drop of a hat. It was often in PMs that he let his mask slip, forgot to stay in character, and thus gave himself away.

By the time he started posting as his brother Mitri (supposedly whilst Andreus was dying) the whole thing seemed to have turned into a rather sick joke. Many of us had completly given up on taking anything he said seriously, and pretty much just ignored him.

Then when he 'died' and Mitri carried on posting, occasionally dropping character and sounding alarmingly like Andreus', the whole thing seemed so ridiculous that I just assumed most other Jubbers were simply playing along and humouring him.


When Enchanted started this thread I just assumed that he was another Andreus-related puppet, so I thought fuck it ... I will say what I think. It was almost laughable that the very next post was by BostonPirate who, once again, many already considered part of this whole silly little fraud.

Personally, if this thread had not been started I would not have brought it up ... it all happened years ago, most of the people involved have long since moved on. I would guess that Andreus and his pathetic childish games are pretty much irrelevant to most current Jubbers.


Having said all that, it has been utterly fascinating to see how this thread has panned out. I hope it it stays open so that any new info can be added if and when it is discovered.

[bankside]

The only grain of insight so far has been the recent login to Andreus' account. Everything else has been rather base and distasteful speculation about a JUB member otherwise understood to be a deceased person, and above all I'm surprised the thread continued after the second post, unless moderators were in possession of actual evidence instead of speculation and insinuation of their own. Not one of the "aha!" moments in this thread is inconsistent with what should actually be expected from the posting history of an eccentric but real poster. I don't see why it is more plausible that a boring person would pretend to be an eccentric while posting on the Internet, compared to the possibility of an eccentric person posting on the Internet.

What there has been far too little of in this thread is people prepared to reserve judgement. I'm honestly astonished at how people will pile on to innuendo and pretend it is substantive. I didn't have any affinity for Andreus but it still seems to me that he is entitled to more than the gong show on display here. If we had been forced into a boat made of the logic in this thread, we'd be down there with the titanic by now given all the gaps.

The first and only thing that rises above a hunch (which to my knowlege has never before been sufficient to disparage another member given the code of conduct) is the recent activity date. And even that is not conclusive; just google Mat Honan.

[Ram]

The thread title is "Tell me more about Andreus". I think we all have fulfilled the "more" part very well and have gone beyond that. Can we put a lock on this thread?

[blackbeltninja]

The only grain of insight so far has been the recent login to Andreus' account. Everything else has been rather base and distasteful speculation about a JUB member otherwise understood to be a deceased person, and above all I'm surprised the thread continued after the second post, unless moderators were in possession of actual evidence instead of speculation and insinuation of their own.

Well... in all honesty, why shouldn't it have continued? It may indeed be in poor taste, but that is entirely subjective and is not against the CoC anyway.

Given the amount of posts and the volume of input, tasteful or not, I'd say closing the thread would be in incredibly poor form. It has clearly resonated with numerous members here; to deny the right to discussion simply because some find the member in question to be something of a sacred cow would be a massive application of double standards, given how other members are dragged through the mud from time to time when they do or say something some deem questionable.

I think this type of discussion would be in exceptionally poor taste had this all come up now for the first time - still not against the CoC, I don't think, but probably entirely unnecessary and not something I could willingly or easily participate in. However, as has been pointed out several times, the similarities between Andreus the member as presented and Andreus the man is something which has been considered by a good number of JUBbers for most of the existence of this forum as we know it; this is hardly some new slander. Now is as good a time as any to get to the bottom of it, if indeed we can.

Death may well be The Leveller, but I'm mindful of the old adage that gone does not equal forgotten.

-d-

[tombastep]

I'd go so far as to say if Andreus IS fake, and was perpetuated falsely by someone else on JUB, this thread was the most civil, calm examination of that possibility I've ever seen on the internet. Hardly the Spanish Inquisition.

And this is why I don't think the thread should be locked either. As much as it is a controversial issue, I've seen threads with less controversy turned to way worse shit storms that this thread barely even touches. Most of those threads are hardly even touched.

And I don't think anyone in this thread said anything so horrible or insulting to Andreus' character.

[bankside]

I don't begrudge anyone the right to raise the question: was he real? But given that it raises questions about a poster's motivation, ethics and integrity, it is best handled with the mods. If they can shed light on a history of falsehood, as with other posters and sock puppets, then a "mod decision thread" can be posted explaining the outcome, as with permabans or removal of sock puppets, impersonation using other people's photos, etc.

[zoltanspawn]

That some members are confusing their speculations with substantive fact does not mean all members or most are. (And shame on those who are confusing their hypotheses with fact.) I keep seeing people use the word "if" in this thread.

Given the gravity of the accusation, I think it's entirely natural to consider the possibilities. This isn't merely a question of uncovering a charismatic fake (if that's what Andreus was). It's a question of uncovering someone who faked their own death. I consider that a serious betrayal.

I do wish there was enough evidence--to the contrary of these speculations--that would put the concern to rest.

[rareboy]

No, jag's post came in between - my line was referring to ozguy throwing peto_antoni into the conspiracy mix.

ah my misunderstanding, then....

[sixthson]

I don't put much stock in Andreus' account activity because a few months ago, dpnice's name appeared as a visitor to my blog and he has not been here for a long time. In fact, many believe he is deceased. Couldn't it just be some kind of glitch that showed activity.

[sixthson]

Peto_Antoni ..... who remembers him?? Seem to recall a fair bit of drama on the boards when he was posting. Hmmmmm, I wonder ...........

Oh gosh, good old Peto, Croynan's favorite nemesis. Any time Peto posted, I knew Croynan would soon be on his tail. Now that was entertainment.
I remember being unkind to Peto one time in a post. He sent me a PM asking me what he had ever done to me. And he was right. I felt bad about it.
Even if Peto's endowment was enhanced, he was definitely knowledgeable about opera.

I really miss Croynan. What a major part of JUB he was and one of the best parts of JUB.

[HoodedRat]

Oh gosh, good old Peto, Croynan's favorite nemesis. Any time Peto posted, I knew Croynan would soon be on his tail. Now that was entertainment.
I remember being unkind to Peto one time in a post. He sent me a PM asking me what he had ever done to me. And he was right. I felt bad about it.
Even if Peto's endowment was enhanced, he was definitely knowledgeable about opera.

I really miss Croynan. What a major part of JUB he was and one of the best parts of JUB.

The Croynan vs Peto feud was a truly wondrous thing to behold.

Peto's love of opera made him almost bearable at times.

I too miss Croynan, he was always interesting.

[rareboy]

I don't put much stock in Andreus' account activity because a few months ago, dpnice's name appeared as a visitor to my blog and he has not been here for a long time. In fact, many believe he is deceased. Couldn't it just be some kind of glitch that showed activity.

Timing is everything. There are coincidences and there are coinkydinks.

But perhaps Andreus is like

[Keeland]

Given the gravity of the accusation, I think it's entirely natural to consider the possibilities. This isn't merely a question of uncovering a charismatic fake (if that's what Andreus was). It's a question of uncovering someone who faked their own death. I consider that a serious betrayal.

Look what happened the last time. We even have a schism and a pope.

[rareboy]

That some members are confusing their speculations with substantive fact does not mean all members or most are. (And shame on those who are confusing their hypotheses with fact.) I keep seeing people use the word "if" in this thread.

Given the gravity of the accusation, I think it's entirely natural to consider the possibilities. This isn't merely a question of uncovering a charismatic fake (if that's what Andreus was). It's a question of uncovering someone who faked their own death. I consider that a serious betrayal.

I do wish there was enough evidence--to the contrary of these speculations--that would put the concern to rest.

I guess.

We actually have one Jubber still active who did that and then was apparently resurrected after a period in purgatory.

Obviously I have a very low opinion of anyone who might toy with some of their emotionally fragile fellows...but as long as they didn't try to raise money from the gullible...then it is a relatively modest betrayal.

It would be the difference between your parents faking their own death when you were 7 in order to not have to take care of you any more and some guy telling his room mate to tell the one night stand who wanted to get in touch again that he had moved far, far away.

[refujiunderground]

I am thinking it's very possible that Enchanted does [did, well, before SexKitten] exist - we know there ARE people out there who think like he does.

If ONLY Andreus and Enchanted/SexKitten came out of the same mind, that alone is enough to make me think that the creator of these personas has a very interesting and brilliant mind. It takes a lot of skill in composition, role playing, etc. for somebody to convince nearly all of us that TWO such different people exist. Thinking back on Enchanted's own account deletion, then his reappearance under another name (and NOT trying to hide that he had been Enchanted), that didn't *seem* to be how I would expect a sockpuppet to behave. But then we can't really know...because sockpuppetology is a very poorly developed science.

Creating multiple sock puppets, and having enough control to keep the attributes of one from merging with the other, is challenging as well.

Now, if Andreus/Mitri, Enchanted, and BostonPirate *ALL* came out of the same mind...wow. Four people all very different from each other in their ways (though Mitri wasn't around quite enough for us to "know" him very well, and he may have come to seem much more like Andreus if I had read more of him and done so when I wasn't in a big hurry or something). Even that, if Andreus and Mitri were both sockpuppets, the fact that Andreus was pretty much ALWAYS around and Mitri was only here very intermittently, even THAT is strange for sockpuppets. *IF* it were to come about that all four of these came from the SAME mind, my best guess is that BP is the one who is "the real deal" if only that his posts in C E & P, which often went into deep politics that were well off the radar, would be difficult for somebody to impersonate if it isn't their true set of beliefs.

I don't feel "cheated" in any way. Duped, yes, but this is the internet and it comes with the territory. Though I don't remember for sure and I sure-as-hell can't prove it, I think that I learned something (and, therefore, improved my life by at least some minimal amount) from these guys.

Also, if the same person came up with ALL of these characters (and maybe MissPatrickCampbell??), he/she doesn't belong on JUB at all. NO, NOT BECAUSE OF DECEPTION AND STUFF, that's not the reason. That person needs to be out there, writing books. Why would somebody waste time here, when they have a mind that could probably be producing 250,000-units-sold books?



THIS. And thus the reason why I simply find this entire phenomenon interesting. Extreme role-playing, which I'm entirely no good at (even on a small scale), is something that just fascinates me - like how do people do this? Let alone your comment; it DOES take a lot of time and it's very possible that the puppetry was much less a flow of consciousness than it sometimes appeared to be. If it's not somebody's nature to be "that way" (like the role that is being played), everything has to be written fairly carefully to remain convincing.

i agree with you on the brilliant mind part but i also think it's safe to assume that the person behind it has some serious issues to work out. it's ironic that this thread was made while the show catfish is airing on mtv which is about people that are creating fake personas on the internet.

with that said, i'm convinced that andreus, his brother and bostonpirate are connected as in someone is basically getting their acting on. i'm also convinced that enchanted/sex kitten is also connected. enchanted/sex kitten is either an alias or lying about a lot of shit. i don't buy his whole entire teacher story. i'll try to give him a serious response out of sheer boredom BUT in the back of my mind, i know that the story is too good to be true. it sounds like one huge troll job. if he is real, that's probably NOT his photo and i DOUBT he lives in russia or whereever. he lives in america and dude is basically playing all of us for a fool. dude says a lot of suspicious things by the way which makes me wonder. wouldn't be surprised if another poster was in on it too or even the moderators knew what was going on.

it wouldn't surprise me if dude is basically reading this, laughing his ass off at this and then having an evil smirk on his face plotting on something. all we need is someone to basically come forward and tell the truth.


i think we need to call it out for what it is instead of beating around the bush.

[xbuzzerx]

The only grain of insight so far has been the recent login to Andreus' account. Everything else has been rather base and distasteful speculation about a JUB member otherwise understood to be a deceased person, and above all I'm surprised the thread continued after the second post, unless moderators were in possession of actual evidence instead of speculation and insinuation of their own. Not one of the "aha!" moments in this thread is inconsistent with what should actually be expected from the posting history of an eccentric but real poster. I don't see why it is more plausible that a boring person would pretend to be an eccentric while posting on the Internet, compared to the possibility of an eccentric person posting on the Internet.

What there has been far too little of in this thread is people prepared to reserve judgement. I'm honestly astonished at how people will pile on to innuendo and pretend it is substantive. I didn't have any affinity for Andreus but it still seems to me that he is entitled to more than the gong show on display here. If we had been forced into a boat made of the logic in this thread, we'd be down there with the titanic by now given all the gaps.

The first and only thing that rises above a hunch (which to my knowlege has never before been sufficient to disparage another member given the code of conduct) is the recent activity date. And even that is not conclusive; just google Mat Honan.

The thread title is "Tell me more about Andreus". I think we all have fulfilled the "more" part very well and have gone beyond that. Can we put a lock on this thread?

Well... in all honesty, why shouldn't it have continued? It may indeed be in poor taste, but that is entirely subjective and is not against the CoC anyway.

Given the amount of posts and the volume of input, tasteful or not, I'd say closing the thread would be in incredibly poor form. It has clearly resonated with numerous members here; to deny the right to discussion simply because some find the member in question to be something of a sacred cow would be a massive application of double standards, given how other members are dragged through the mud from time to time when they do or say something some deem questionable.

I think this type of discussion would be in exceptionally poor taste had this all come up now for the first time - still not against the CoC, I don't think, but probably entirely unnecessary and not something I could willingly or easily participate in. However, as has been pointed out several times, the similarities between Andreus the member as presented and Andreus the man is something which has been considered by a good number of JUBbers for most of the existence of this forum as we know it; this is hardly some new slander. Now is as good a time as any to get to the bottom of it, if indeed we can.

Death may well be The Leveller, but I'm mindful of the old adage that gone does not equal forgotten.

-d-

Agree with blackbelt's post. I consider it more "distasteful" when people summarily call for locking of a thread just because they personally aren't interested in it or don't like it, and not because it stands to harm them or anyone else.

I also think everyone trumping up the "innuendo" and "accusations" have only perused the thread as this thread is full of "IF..."s and "if that's the case.."s more than J'E ACCUSE.

On top of that, as already discussed, this isn't a random everyday poster being abruptly singled out arbitrarily, but someone that a good number of forumers always thought had a fishy story. And he does have a fishy story. In fact it's a fishmarket during a bumper fish harvest.

[refujiunderground]

Agree with blackbelt's post. I consider it more "distasteful" when people summarily call for locking of a thread just because they personally aren't interested in it or don't like it, and not because it stands to harm them or anyone else.

I also think everyone trumping up the "innuendo" and "accusations" have only perused the thread as this thread is full of "IF..."s and "if that's the case.."s more than J'E ACCUSE.

On top of that, as already discussed, this isn't a random everyday poster being abruptly singled out arbitrarily, but someone that a good number of forumers always thought had a fishy story. And he does have a fishy story. In fact it's a fishmarket during a bumper fish harvest.

what gets me is how many people actually believed it though. that's crazy. if they believed that without getting suspicious, then who else has been able to do the same thing? there's probably many other posters that aren't real, duping other people.

[xbuzzerx]

what gets me is how many people actually believed it though. that's crazy. if they believed that without getting suspicious, then who else has been able to do the same thing? there's probably many other posters that aren't real, duping other people.

I'm of the opinion that without the "hawt" part of his persona including a naked avatar he wouldn't have gotten half the attention he did.

[MoufOfKhaos]

Oh, this thread just got grandiosely more confusing from when I posted in it a week or so ago.

Let me stop what i'm doing and read up.

[refujiunderground]

I'm of the opinion that without the "hawt" part of his persona including a naked avatar he wouldn't have gotten half the attention he did.

smh @ people falling for look game. geez. it's scary, man. folks will always take something at face value even when it's suspicious as fuck.

[loki81]

I'm of the opinion that without the "hawt" part of his persona including a naked avatar he wouldn't have gotten half the attention he did.

I'd say that about a lot of posters makes me glad I have avatar pictures turned off <3