I dont care Justin B is a fuckin Dyke transvesdike

[pat grimshaw]

I guess a dog growling can be counted as singing too. Rap isn't music.

[JohannBessler]

@T-Rexxx:

Wow! You have a formidable point. I'd forgotten how feminine some of those guys looked. We must remember, however, that Tony DeFranco, at least, had not yet entered puberty when he reached his height of fame.

By contrast, Justin Bieber is 18 years old, and besides, none of those guys look like lesbians.

I still believe Bieber holds the title for "Most Feminine-Looking Teenybopper Ever."

[JohannBessler]

Yes. How astute of you. And rock also isn't a genre because Nickelback sucks, and Bing Crosby wasn't a singer because he didn't hit the back rows. I didn't honestly think people still thought like this.

Can't agree with you there, Lex. Rap sets itself apart because the artist speaks the words, instead of singing them.

The definition of music holds that a composition has tonal variations. I don't think rap fits this criteria.

You might call it "recitative", or "poetry", but I cannot honestly classify it as music.

[RazorzEdge88]

I've never seen a more repressed homosexual than Justin Bieber.

Who the hell makes a face like this when a woman kisses them?:

[refujiunderground]

I guess a burp contest can be counted as singing too lol.

and this isn't rapping???





not saying that all of reggaeton is like this BUT breh, there's no way you're going to tell me that the man isn't rapping in spanish in this song. i've heard plenty of songs similar to this. yeah, reggaeton may have singing, reggae melodies and a bunch of the other things you said but you're not fooling anybody by saying there's NO traces of rap at all in reggaeton. there may be some singers but i know that there's some reggaeton songs and artists that incorporate rap into their shit.

here's another one featuring some of your reggaeton favorites during a collabo with a rapper and guess what, all of them are RAPPING.

[RazorzEdge88]

Man, these endless music "discussions" between Giancarlo and refuji about the same topics, which never lead anywhere, sure are interesting!

[GiancarloC]

and this isn't rapping???

You cite Daddy Yankee? No.. even that's not rapping. It's something entirely fucking different.



Your rap music isn't what invented reggaeton. And it's all flipped backwards. Rap took from reggaeton. Rap is hardly original. Reggaeton took from bachata, merengue and reggae. Listen to some old reggae songs... maybe Peter Tosh. Forget Marley.

not saying that all of reggaeton is like this BUT breh, there's no way you're going to tell me that the man isn't rapping in spanish in this song. i've heard plenty of songs similar to this. yeah, reggaeton may have singing, reggae melodies and a bunch of the other things you said but you're not fooling anybody by saying there's NO traces of rap at all in reggaeton. there may be some singers but i know that there's some reggaeton songs and artists that incorporate rap into their shit.

No. NO AND NO WAY. Listen to reggaeton a bit closer and with LESS OF A CLOSED MIND. There aren't traces of rap. Reggaeton has it roots before even rap existed.

And I never quite forgave Wisin y Yandel for singing with that putz 50 cent.

I know you HATE reggaeton... but it does involve ACTUAL SINGING most of time.

Here is another video:



This reggaeton is called "mas flow"... it's smoother and has an edge about love. Or just outright sex lol.

It's tied to reggae and bachata.

Bachata Prince... Prince Royce:



I want him in more ways than one... in that song he incorporates Mariachi music.

[refujiunderground]

You cite Daddy Yankee? No.. even that's not rapping. It's something entirely fucking different.



Your rap music isn't what invented reggaeton. And it's all flipped backwards. Rap took from reggaeton. Rap is hardly original. Reggaeton took from bachata, merengue and reggae. Listen to some old reggae songs... maybe Peter Tosh. Forget Marley.

okay, i get what you're saying with the whole reggaeton coming from reggae but rap taking from reggaeton...

and yeah, you're right about the way rap not creating reggaeton, i was wrong about that BUT breh, you're going to tell me that daddy yankee wasn't rapping in those songs? what was he doing then? some of your reggaeton artists do rap in their songs.

[GiancarloC]

Rap is a rip off of various things... it's not even worth trying to justify it. Maybe visit Puerto Rico. Reggaeton never took from rap. Backasswards. Two different genres. And watch the videos I posted. They actually need fucking vocals... someone like Lil Wayne and 50 Cent can't sing for shit.

and yeah, you're right about the way rap not creating reggaeton, i was wrong about that BUT breh, you're going to tell me that daddy yankee wasn't rapping in those songs? what was he doing then? some of your reggaeton artists do rap in their songs.

Here we go again... claiming reggaeton is ripping off rap... give it a rest. This isn't a battle one can win. Who said he took that from rap? Daddy Yankee isn't even the first one even though people think that. Again listen to some reggae artists. Open your mind a bit.

And in those videos... where do they rap? They sing. Those artists are known for their wide vocal range.



Open your mind a bit. Please. Oh and Peter Tosh was singing in the mid 70s.

[refujiunderground]

Rap is a rip off of various things... it's not even worth trying to justify it. Maybe visit Puerto Rico. Reggaeton never took from rap. Backasswards. Two different genres. And watch the videos I posted. They actually need fucking vocals... someone like Lil Wayne and 50 Cent can't sing for shit.

just because you don't like rap doesn't mean that it's not music. the same argument could be applied to death metal and hardcore punk. i don't see you, pat, or any guys in here bashing rap talking about death metal and how these guys basically are screaming, saying a whole lot of WTF in the mic, basically incoherent and hardcore punk where you basically have guys talking over a fast beat. i guess because you see them playing instruments that gives them a pass right? you'll probably say that rza from the wu tang and kanye west aren't producers because they make beats to rap over too with sampling machines using other people's records. yet i don't see any of you saying anything about skillrex or david guetta which are basically using computer software to make the same generic wack ass dubstep beats which are basically computer generated sounds.

i think it's ignorant to dismiss a music genre because you don't like it. i'm not a big fan of dubstep music and these wack ass pop music BUT yeah, it's still music. rap is music.

[GiancarloC]

just because you don't like rap doesn't mean that it's not music. the same argument could be applied to death metal and punk. i don't see you, pat, or any guys in here bashing rap talking about death metal and how these guys basically are screaming, saying a whole lot of WTF in the mic and hardcore punk where you basically have guys talking over a fast beat. i guess because you see them playing instruments that gives them a pass right?

I don't like death metal or punk either. So that goes out the window. I think both are horrid... I would rather listen to someone scratching on a chalk board. Same goes for rap.

i think it's ignorant to dismiss a music genre because you don't like it. i'm not a big fan of dubstep music and these wack ass pop music BUT yeah, it's still music. rap is music.

I don't like music where people are screaming their heads off or pretending to sing when they don't have the vocals. I listen to mostly "mas flow" reggaeton...

And wait a second... weren't you talking bad about reggaeton in the past anyways? lol.

Oh and Kanye West... another rubbish "artist" who can't sing for shit.

Look I can spend all day going over music I thnk is rubbish... rap in general... well is just bad and on life support right now. And please don't bring up Lil Wayne...

[BreakTheIce]

I hate this kid.

His entire team is basically trying to follow Justin Timberlake's every career move to ensure he lasts, but no matter how "tough, adult, and sexy" he tries to be he can NEVER look the part. Has his pants too fucking low and wears oversized T-shirts (like we don't have enough of that shit already) and when he wins an award talks like an absolute douchebag. Case in point: his first AMA win this year, he decides to say "this is for my haters!" instead of actually thanking the fans (if any) who voted for him.

Does not even look sexy at all, has the worst tattoos ever (Jesus on the ankle, random owl?? wtf?), thinks he's all grown up but comes across as a lesbian playing a teenage boy in some cheesy movie.

If I ever met him in person I'd punch him in his fucking twat.

[Comrad]

Seeing as how this thread is a rip off about music and trannies. Another guy who I noticed looked very fem is that fat asain guy. He is fucking disgusting (Not because he looks like a lesbian but because hes fat) but eh. Anyway. He looks like a fat lesbian the majority of the time and I thought I was the only one who noticed this. He is that guy who has out that ridiculous rap song in Japanese or something. Its a mess.

[refujiunderground]

I don't like death metal or punk either. So that goes out the window. I think both are horrid... I would rather listen to someone scratching on a chalk board. Same goes for rap.



I don't like music where people are screaming their heads off or pretending to sing when they don't have the vocals. I listen to mostly "mas flow" reggaeton...

And wait a second... weren't you talking bad about reggaeton in the past anyways? lol.

Oh and Kanye West... another rubbish "artist" who can't sing for shit.

but they're still music aren't they?

and even though i said that i wasn't a fan of reggaeton, i didn't dismiss it as a music genre like how you did and continue to do with rap. just because you don't like it doesn't mean that it's not music.

[GiancarloC]

Seeing as how this thread is a rip off about music and trannies. Another guy who I noticed looked very fem is that fat asain guy. He is fucking disgusting (Not because he looks like a lesbian but because hes fat) but eh. Anyway. He looks like a fat lesbian the majority of the time and I thought I was the only one who noticed this. He is that guy who has out that ridiculous rap song in Japanese or something. Its a mess.

Oh was it that stupid song that went viral I see on my facebook all the time? Garbage... absolute garbage I AGREE! I'm not even going to say the name of it because it pisses me off.

[Comrad]

I hate this kid.

His entire team is basically trying to follow Justin Timberlake's every career move to ensure he lasts, but no matter how "tough, adult, and sexy" he tries to be he can NEVER look the part. Has his pants too fucking low and wears oversized T-shirts (like we don't have enough of that shit already) and when he wins an award talks like an absolute douchebag. Case in point: his first AMA win this year, he decides to say "this is for my haters!" instead of actually thanking the fans (if any) who voted for him.

Does not even look sexy at all, has the worst tattoos ever (Jesus on the ankle, random owl?? wtf?), thinks he's all grown up but comes across as a lesbian playing a teenage boy in some cheesy movie.

If I ever met him in person I'd punch him in his fucking twat.

Yes Ye Yes Thank you! You described her to the T like the poser she is! I didn't even know she had tattoos..Who is she fooling!

[GiancarloC]

but they're still music aren't they?

and even though i said that i wasn't a fan of reggaeton, i didn't dismiss it as a music genre like how you did and continue to do with rap. just because you don't like it doesn't mean that it's not music.

Death metal and punk are bad music genres... rap isn't one at all. So moving right along.

[refujiunderground]

Seeing as how this thread is a rip off about music and trannies. Another guy who I noticed looked very fem is that fat asain guy. He is fucking disgusting (Not because he looks like a lesbian but because hes fat) but eh. Anyway. He looks like a fat lesbian the majority of the time and I thought I was the only one who noticed this. He is that guy who has out that ridiculous rap song in Japanese or something. Its a mess.

man, i don't know if anybody has told you this but STOP. you're clearly trying to do this with the intent of offending people over here which is why you continue to use anti gay slurs, bash transgender people, and etc.

[AWP82]

@T-Rexxx:

Wow! You have a formidable point. I'd forgotten how feminine some of those guys looked. We must remember, however, that Tony DeFranco, at least, had not yet entered puberty when he reached his height of fame.

By contrast, Justin Bieber is 18 years old, and besides, none of those guys look like lesbians.

I still believe Bieber holds the title for "Most Feminine-Looking Teenybopper Ever."

They're all feminine, but only one looks like a lesbian? What's the difference? What do "lesbians" look like?

[refujiunderground]

Death metal and punk are bad music genres... rap isn't one at all. So moving right along.

how is death metal and hardcore punk music genres and rap not when they're basically the same thing except you can actually understand what the rappers are saying? would it make a different if they sang or not? quit hating on rap.

[GiancarloC]

how is death metal and hardcore punk music genres and rap not when they're basically the same thing except you can actually understand what the rappers are saying? would it make a different if they sang or not? quit hating on rap.

It's so easy to get you angry... jeez... listen to some reggae.

And I don't consider talking singing. Anybody could do that lol.

[Comrad]

man, i don't know if anybody has told you this but STOP. you're clearly trying to do this with the intent of offending people over here which is why you continue to use anti gay slurs, bash transgender people, and etc.

You should put me on ignore. Like seriously just do it please.

[JohannBessler]

They're all feminine, but only one looks like a lesbian? What's the difference? What do "lesbians" look like?

I don't know myself, AWP, how to explain that. Something like the fact that lesbians don't look like gay men in drag. The drag queen carries some kind of undercurrent of masculinity, usually; a lesbian carries an undercurrent of femininitiy, usually. Bieber doesn't seem to carry that undercurrent of masculinity, or something.....

lol

I find it amusing to have an idea in my head, but not to have the vocabulary to describe it. ^I guess that will do for now.

[Nishin]

Which begs the question--why would a teenage girl want to have sex with a man who looks like a lesbian? It's not his voice that they're gaga over.

Anybody who can figure that out deserves a Nobel Prize for psychology.

You're the second person who has mentioned that theory. I think it must have some validity to it.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...hit-women.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4261489.stm

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...050665030.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/20...8/genderissues

etc etc ...

Seeing as how this thread is a rip off about music and trannies. Another guy who I noticed looked very fem is that fat asain guy. He is fucking disgusting (Not because he looks like a lesbian but because hes fat) but eh. Anyway. He looks like a fat lesbian the majority of the time and I thought I was the only one who noticed this. He is that guy who has out that ridiculous rap song in Japanese or something. Its a mess.

This is not rap and this is not Japanese.

[Nishin]

Music =/= Singing
and
Singing =/= Music

Rap(ping acapella) =/= Singing
but
Rap (genre) = Music (genre)

Music is an art form whose medium is sound and silence. Its common elements are pitch (which governs melody and harmony), rhythm (and its associated concepts tempo, meter, and articulation), dynamics, and the sonic qualities of timbre and texture. The word derives from Greek μουσική (mousike; "art of the Muses").

[USEDCAR]

I like Justin i don't care for his music he kinda looks like one of my friends.

[G-Lexington]

I'm sorry. It still seems like a bunch of people are carrying their own yardsticks around, and declaring that anythimg that doesn't measure up to them isn't music and/or sucks. No, I don't like death metal with Cookie Monster vocals, at all. But I don't therefore decree that it isn't music because the notes don't fall pleasantly on the ear, or that it all sucks because "they're just screaming" and, presumably, "that's not how we do things". That's why I brought up Bing Crosby, who was roundly criticised when he burst on the scene for "not being able to sing". Because back then, singing meant projecting from the diaphragm towards the back seats. And Bing was singing confidentially into the microphone. In short, he "wasn't doing it right". He "obviously couldn't sing correctly", and therefore he "sucked". None of which really addressed why he drew all the scorn - despite being this supposed no-talent hack, he was selling a ton of music and making the girls swoon.

Similarly, many of the paradigm shifts in popular music have drawn the same ire. Little Richard and his nonsensical, animalistic yowls? Shudder. Thank goodness for Pat Boone, who clearly displayed how singing SHOULD be - by pitching each note correctly, and placing the emphasis away from the carnality of the lyrics and square on the melody. Because that's how music should be performed. Now, of course, see if you can dredge up anyone who thinks Little Richard had the wrong idea and Pat Boone the right one.

A lot of musical evolution involves finding how elastic the so-called "rules" are. Rock found there was a place where country and blues met, after all. James Brown (as one critic pointed out) liberated music from the tyranny of the chord change. (It's no surprise that rap samplers plundered the James Brown archives first, as his lengthy single-key workouts formed the perfect backdrop for their rhymes.) And much of the first half-century of the history of jazz involved systematically breaking down one barrier after another....and the subsequent pissing-off of the group that preceded it. Can a musician take a "solo"? ("No! Jazz is ENSEMBLE playing!") Can more than one take a solo? ("No, it's called a solo for a reason!") Do you even have to know what you're going to play before you start? ("That's not music - that's chaos!")

Music is going to continue to evolve (or, if you insist, devolve). Rules will continue to be tested for strength, and leapt over, or demolished. Sometimes, yes, to make up for an artist's own deficiencies. But often that's where the innovation comes from. Rather than try to belt out a number (which he probably coudn't do as well as the other singers of the day), Bing crooned...and found an untapped audience who responded to it. Rather than express his rather carnal desires in a melodic way (which, if you listen to his oeuvre, he could do, if unremarkably), Little Richard gave us a wop-bop-a-loo-bop-abop-bam-boom. And rather than sing their desire to cut loose and party or their anger about the world around them (which perhaps they couldn't do very well), the rappers rapped it instead. But even if they're "breaking the rules" by "compensating for deficiencies"...what exactly is wrong with that? It's just these sorts of things that have pushed music outwards. Were it not fior musical evolution, we would all presumably still be humming Gregorian chants, and presumably finding other ways to piss off previous generations.

And yes, it can be hard to move your brain beyond certain points. For many of us, music becomes unpleasant when certain rules are broken or certain lines are crossed. But then the problem doesn't lie with the music - it lies with the listener. It isn't a case of "that's not music" - it's a case of "I don't like that kind of music". Which is completely fine, but it should be recognized as such. If for no other reason than it would eliminate both the ridiculous "that's not music" claims on stuff, and it would eliminate this whole Giancarlo/refuji argument.

Lex

[JohannBessler]

Rap(ping acapella) =/= Singing
but
Rap (genre) = Music (genre)

But Nishin, you have directly contradicted yourself.

1. Rap =singing
2. "Music is an art form whose medium....common elements are pitch(which governs melody and harmony)....ad infinitum"

Don't get me wrong--I don't intend to diss rap. I merely maintain that it does not fit the defiinition of "music".

[Nishin]

But Nishin, you have directly contradicted yourself.

Sorry... I don't see where...

1. Rap =singing

Rapping is not singing... otherwise it would be called... singing ... right?

Don't get me wrong--I don't intend to diss rap. I merely maintain that it does not fit the defiinition of "music".

Rapping (accapella) is more like poetry, but Rap as a genre is music, it has music/beats/loops that are part of the piece, and with which the rapping interacts...

[tombastep]

Are people really saying that rap isn't music because they're not singing? Really? I guess instrumental bands and classical isn't a musical genre either.

[tombastep]

You should put me on ignore. Like seriously just do it please.

Everyone should do this anyway.

[refujiunderground]

Everyone should do this anyway.

i know i did.

[Essex Boy]

I'd like to revisit the original subject for a moment if that's all right. I saw La Bieber for the first time on a chat show the other week. Not impressed. But then I'm about three decades older than his main fan base. I wondered whether he might be a descendant of Heinrich Ignaz Franz Biber von Bibern (1644-1704), whom Hindemith called 'the greatest composer before Bach' which would make him much more impressive. Does anyone know?

[Kulindahr]

Can't agree with you there, Lex. Rap sets itself apart because the artist speaks the words, instead of singing them.

The definition of music holds that a composition has tonal variations. I don't think rap fits this criteria.

You might call it "recitative", or "poetry", but I cannot honestly classify it as music.

To be technical, rap is a form of chant:

Chant (from French chanter[1]) is the rhythmic speaking or singing of words or sounds, often primarily on one or two pitches called reciting tones.

(Wiki)


As chant, there is a fair amount of rap that is good stuff. At the high end, chant overlaps singing -- e.g. some of the complex Gregorian multitones -- but rap is at the simpler end, and the "tones" involved aren't musical per se, but more like the tonal properties of some languages.

One instrument I've always thought would go well with rap is the didgeridoo, which can be viewed as chant without words.

[GiancarloC]

Are people really saying that rap isn't music because they're not singing? Really? I guess instrumental bands and classical isn't a musical genre either.

What I'm saying is that rap isn't music because talking isn't music.

Asides from that, most rap is outright terrible... especially that crap from Lil Wayne (who is supposed to be the leading rap star right now). No wonder the genre (again, it's not part of music) is on life support.

[JohannBessler]

Are people really saying that rap isn't music because they're not singing? Really? I guess instrumental bands and classical isn't a musical genre either.

Tomba, instumentals feature variations of tone in the melody. The melody of any sort of composition is the tune that leads; the harmonies behind them follow.

In a rap composition, purportedly, the poetry leads the composition. I see rap music as either poetry or recitative (take your pick).

I suppose, theoretically, one could compose a piece which includes a melody played on an instument, coupled with poetry spoken over it. I'd find it interesting to hear such a composition. Done artfully, it might work.

Maybe you could call it a "fugue"?

[JohannBessler]

To be technical, rap is a form of chant:

Chant (from French chanter[1]) is the rhythmic speaking or singing of words or sounds, often primarily on one or two pitches called reciting tones.

(Wiki)


As chant, there is a fair amount of rap that is good stuff. At the high end, chant overlaps singing -- e.g. some of the complex Gregorian multitones -- but rap is at the simpler end, and the "tones" involved aren't musical per se, but more like the tonal properties of some languages.

One instrument I've always thought would go well with rap is the didgeridoo, which can be viewed as chant without words.

I see, Kulindahr.

I hadn't read your reply when I replied to Tombastep.

Thank you for clearing it up.

[Kulindahr]

I've never seen a more repressed homosexual than Justin Bieber.

Who the hell makes a face like this when a woman kisses them?:

That's a VAMPIRE!

[Kulindahr]

and this isn't rapping???

The opening is definitely rap. It's part of an approach that opens some rock songs with classical riffs, or other combinations. But the classification of the genre doesn't depend on the intro, it depends on the piece as a whole -- so you wouldn't look for this under rap if you wanted to download it.

[tombastep]

What I'm saying is that rap isn't music because talking isn't music.

It is your opinion that it is just "talking", which it isn't. When I talk to people I don't hear them try and carry a conversation like someone who is rapping trying to keep a certain rhythm with their voice, along with the music.

Asides from that, most rap is outright terrible... especially that crap from Lil Wayne (who is supposed to be the leading rap star right now). No wonder the genre (again, it's not part of music) is on life support.

It doesn't really matter that you think it's terrible or not because that doesn't make it not music. And you keep bringing up Lil Wayne as a representative of the genre, which he is not. He is one artist out of many.

The "It's not music" comments are nothing but snobbery when it comes to people who just look down on a type of music they don't enjoy. It comes from people who probably think their musical taste is better than the person who likes said genre and/or they feel more "sophisticated" because of it.

[Kulindahr]

Bachata Prince... Prince Royce:



I want him in more ways than one... in that song he incorporates Mariachi music.

Brilliant. And unlike most Spanish singers I hear, I can follow the words.

[moniker]

The real puzzle here is why this young man generates so much hate.Those who think he is effeminate are plainly crazy, basing their dumb opinion on how he looked when he was 15. Name me another pop star who can actually play musical instruments, including the piano? Okay, so he's not a pedophile unlike some other pop star I could name and who never was called out on it by jealous nobodies, but who's perfect?

[JohannBessler]

^Who said any of us hated him?

We merely maintain that he looks feminine--which he does. As I've said before, I think he looks like a lesbian.

What's this about "hating him"? You put words in all our mouths.

[GiancarloC]

It is your opinion that it is just "talking", which it isn't. When I talk to people I don't hear them try and carry a conversation like someone who is rapping trying to keep a certain rhythm with their voice, along with the music.

Oh but it is just talking... perhaps chanting too.

It doesn't really matter that you think it's terrible or not because that doesn't make it not music. And you keep bringing up Lil Wayne as a representative of the genre, which he is not. He is one artist out of many.

Well one certain poster said Lil Wayne is pretty representative of the best that rap has to offer. I didn't say that.

The "It's not music" comments are nothing but snobbery when it comes to people who just look down on a type of music they don't enjoy. It comes from people who probably think their musical taste is better than the person who likes said genre and/or they feel more "sophisticated" because of it.

How is it snobbery? Maybe just talking was a harsh characterization... but perhaps chanting at most. Chanting isn't music. Adding some female vocals and rhythm isn't going to make rap itself into a music genre.

Kulindahr, as far as reggaeton it is a music genre as a whole, and it borrows from reggae, bachata and merengue. Daddy Yankee is only one artist. There are others out there who clearly sing... and don't chant. Some others I've mentioned in this thread.

[JohannBessler]

It is your opinion that it is just "talking", which it isn't. When I talk to people I don't hear them try and carry a conversation like someone who is rapping trying to keep a certain rhythm with their voice, along with the music.



It doesn't really matter that you think it's terrible or not because that doesn't make it not music. And you keep bringing up Lil Wayne as a representative of the genre, which he is not. He is one artist out of many.

The "It's not music" comments are nothing but snobbery when it comes to people who just look down on a type of music they don't enjoy. It comes from people who probably think their musical taste is better than the person who likes said genre and/or they feel more "sophisticated" because of it.

]

We maintain that it IS a genre. Who said otherwise? I just don't think one could classify it as "music".

As Kulindahr has suggested, some rap compositions do contain melody that pops in and out of the piece. One might call that music, as long as it has some tonal variation that serves as a melody. You could probably call that sort of composition a "rhapsody".

We need a music professor to come in here to explain.

I can't speak for others, but I admit the fact that I don't particularly like the genre. However, I have heard worse.

[Kulindahr]

how is death metal and hardcore punk music genres and rap not when they're basically the same thing except you can actually understand what the rappers are saying? would it make a different if they sang or not? quit hating on rap.

Yes. Singing involves the use of a range of tones that fall on the musical scale.

That rap is not singing doesn't mean it isn't art. It's chant, a cousin of Gregorian, just more "primitive", which really means having less formal structure and less strict rules. (It has occurred to me on more than one occasion that to get some (good) rappers to do some Gregorian would ROCK!)

To say rap isn't singing isn't hating on rap, it's being clear about distinctions in vocal art. Gregorian chant -- the ultimate example of chant in the western world -- isn't singing, either, for the most part, but it's still beautiful.

[refujiunderground]

Oh but it is just talking... perhaps chanting too.



Well one certain poster said Lil Wayne is pretty representative of the best that rap has to offer. I didn't say that.



How is it snobbery? Maybe just talking was a harsh characterization... but perhaps chanting at most. Chanting isn't music. Adding some female vocals and rhythm isn't going to make rap itself into a music genre.

Kulindahr, as far as reggaeton it is a music genre as a whole, and it borrows from reggae, bachata and merengue. Daddy Yankee is only one artist. There are others out there who clearly sing... and don't chant. Some others I've mentioned in this thread.

who said that?

[Kulindahr]

I find it amusing to have an idea in my head, but not to have the vocabulary to describe it.

I find it tiresome and frustrating, even agonizing -- why do you think some of my chapters take so bloody long?

[Kulindahr]

Are people really saying that rap isn't music because they're not singing? Really? I guess instrumental bands and classical isn't a musical genre either.

It occurs to me that one way to see rap is that instead of the voice doing the melody in the piece, it's doing percussion.

That puts an interesting twist into this....


BTW, can Bieber rap?

[JohannBessler]

Yes. Singing involves the use of a range of tones that fall on the musical scale.

That rap is not singing doesn't mean it isn't art. It's chant, a cousin of Gregorian, just more "primitive", which really means having less formal structure and less strict rules. (It has occurred to me on more than one occasion that to get some (good) rappers to do some Gregorian would ROCK!)

To say rap isn't singing isn't hating on rap, it's being clear about distinctions in vocal art. Gregorian chant -- the ultimate example of chant in the western world -- isn't singing, either, for the most part, but it's still beautiful.

Quoted for truth and for excellence.

You explained it beautifully, Kulindahr.

Our opinions on the matter don't have anything to do with hate or snobbery, they relate to definitions. I hope JUBbers understand this.