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  1. #1
    AshyPhoenix
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    If a man said a single thing this woman said in this video...

    He'd be flamed to oblivion for being a chauvinist, misogynistic pig.



    This woman is incredibly insightful and really strikes to the heart of the feminist ideology with regards to the disposability of men in modern societies around the world.

    What do you think? Do you agree or disagree with her? Discuss.

  2. #2

    Re: If a man said a single thing this woman said in this video...

    You really don't wanna know what I think about of Feminist. Mind you I never finished the entire video. She is out of her fuckin mind. Maybe she should look around her and look at the world that MEN created for her. The voice that MEN allow her to have. The computer that MEN created so she can get her ridiculous message out. I think I will end it here for the time being.

  3. #3
    AshyPhoenix
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    Re: If a man said a single thing this woman said in this video...



    Watch the entire video. Or at least more than the first twenty seconds. She'd agree with almost everything you just said.

  4. #4

    Re: If a man said a single thing this woman said in this video...

    Quote Originally Posted by AshyPhoenix View Post


    Watch the entire video. Or at least more than the first twenty seconds. She'd agree with almost everything you just said.
    Fore real....16 mins of that ? She is so unsexual. I would have to be so bored......sorry

  5. #5
    AshyPhoenix
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    Re: If a man said a single thing this woman said in this video...

    Quote Originally Posted by Comrad View Post
    Fore real....16 mins of that ? She is so unsexual. I would have to be so bored......sorry
    If you're not going to watch the subject of the entire point of the thread, then why bother replying to it?

  6. #6

    Re: If a man said a single thing this woman said in this video...

    Quote Originally Posted by AshyPhoenix View Post
    If you're not going to watch the subject of the entire point of the thread, then why bother replying to it?
    Well like I said i watched the first min or so and came my short opinion on what I heard. I am sorry but you will find that most people are not willing to sit through a 16 min video in general. I was just some what trying to give your thread some kind of attention because I saw it turning into beef stew real soon but anyway. I will leave it as that and move on. Hope your serious thread here takes off.

  7. #7
    The gay gargoyle
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    Re: If a man said a single thing this woman said in this video...

    (some sort of statement implying that I'm expecting the person in that clip to both create and serve me a sandwich)

    Lex

  8. #8
    thatgirl
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    Re: If a man said a single thing this woman said in this video...

    She says:

    "The feminine is intrinsically and individually valuable simply because females are the limiting factor in reproduction... And while I will concede that this drive to keep women safe from all harm has often resulted in extreme limits placed on women's mobility, their agency, their power of decision to direct their own lives all throughout history in many cultures and in many cultures even today..."

    So women, throughout history, were basically treated like baby-making machines by the men in their society and treated as property to be maintained and controlled (so pampered!). They were valued for their wombs and not for their humanity. And these attitudes still exist to this very day. Poor men!!! I wish they were valued like that, too.

    These so-called 'Men's Rights Activists' are hilarious.

    And yes, women can be misogynists, too. girlwriteswhat is a perfect example of that...she even advocates for beating women to keep them in line: "Women should be terrorized by their men; it’s the only thing that makes them behave better than chimps."

  9. #9
    The old familiar sting blackbeltninja's Avatar
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    Re: If a man said a single thing this woman said in this video...

    Quote Originally Posted by thatgirl View Post
    So women, throughout history, were basically treated like baby-making machines by the men
    Well, on this part of what you said alone - if men could make babies or create them artificially, I suspect they would.

    Biology has created niche roles for us - in a nutshell, it's kinda obvious that the women are busy with the child-bearing process so it kinda makes sense that the men should be out hunting and gathering in order to contribute. The process has been modernised, but we are still kinda stuck with the basics not yet being interchangeable. I suspect the child-rearing and home-making part being included in the whole deal was simply borne from necessity and practicality.

    I'm not sure why women get so pissy about it. Blame God(s), not the rest of us.

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  10. #10
    thatgirl
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    Re: If a man said a single thing this woman said in this video...

    Quote Originally Posted by blackbeltninja View Post
    Well, on this part of what you said alone - if men could make babies or create them artificially, I suspect they would.

    Biology has created niche roles for us - in a nutshell, it's kinda obvious that the women are busy with the child-bearing process so it kinda makes sense that the men should be out hunting and gathering in order to contribute. The process has been modernised, but we are still kinda stuck with the basics not yet being interchangeable. I suspect the child-rearing and home-making part being included in the whole deal was simply borne from necessity and practicality.
    I think pretty much everyone can agree on and acknowledge that the primitive gender roles that ensured the survival of the species were borne out of necessity and convenience.

    There is absolutely nothing that is inherently wrong with taking on traditional gender roles when it comes to who earns income/resources for the family and who maintains the household and takes on the child-rearing. So long as one role isn't valued more than the other and people have a say in how they want to manage their families, in this day and age, it's all good.

    Quote Originally Posted by blackbeltninja View Post
    I'm not sure why women get so pissy about it. Blame God(s), not the rest of us.

    -d-
    Wait, women were pissy about having wombs and having the ability to give birth?

    Or did they take issue with being subjugated and dehumanized in patriarchies that only valued them for their wombs and treated them as second-class citizens to be traded off in marriage, bred and subjected to the whims of their male guardians?

    I'm pretty sure it's the latter. It's not about the biology, it's about the shitty subordinate status that was tacked on to it hence my use of the dehumanizing term "baby-making factories."

    Generally, women are in awe of and celebrate the fact that they have the ability/plumbing to bring life into this world, despite all the challenges that come along with it.

  11. #11
    The Mother of Loki Laufey's Avatar
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    Re: If a man said a single thing this woman said in this video...

    I prefer to use the word equalist to describe myself rather than feminist since I believe in equality which I think most feminists these days are not fighting for. In countries where women have full rights they seem to transfer into some type of high moral club (focusing most on being anti-porn and stuff like that). It's actually kinda ironic that many feminists these days act in a similar way as sexist men did before. Women should cover themselves up and they should be protected more than men.

  12. #12
    Hard-up1
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    Re: If a man said a single thing this woman said in this video...

    The 93% occupational death gender gap (does THAT sound like the name of a band, or what) brings up another example: Western military assignments, once they came, still had the built in sexism that they were to be non-infantry, non-combatant roles.

    That has changed a bit, but still reflects the larger culture.

    If the death gap closes, it will be helpful in getting women beyond the wage ceiling disparity. Equal is equal; equivalent is weak.

  13. #13

    Re: If a man said a single thing this woman said in this video...

    I do thank you for posting this - and possibly my reaction is the same as yours , really if a man said this .... little boys crying , break your heart .

  14. #14
    thatgirl
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    Re: If a man said a single thing this woman said in this video...

    Quote Originally Posted by Geiri85 View Post
    I prefer to use the word equalist to describe myself rather than feminist since I believe in equality which I think most feminists these days are not fighting for. In countries where women have full rights they seem to transfer into some type of high moral club (focusing most on being anti-porn and stuff like that). It's actually kinda ironic that many feminists these days act in a similar way as sexist men did before. Women should cover themselves up and they should be protected more than men.
    While I get your concern, it's best not to make blanket statements about "feminists these days."

    Feminists these days come in a wide ranging variety. There are many brands of feminism, with many disagreements between them and competing ideologies. Some have even branched off as "womanists" because they feel that feminism is not accepting of them.

    And like any movement, you'll find "extremists" within it. It seems to me that most people take issue with 'Radical Feminists' but then generalize it to all feminists. See: the woman in the video for example.

    Whether one identifies as a feminist or not, I think the movement -- in it's truly egalitarian forms -- helps both men and women dismantle and examine patriarchal traditions that have not only fucked over women but have also limited men in many ways, as well.

  15. #15

    Re: If a man said a single thing this woman said in this video...

    also additionally rather as an aside I predict our culture is moving towards gender neutrality , as it happens by gradually eliminating the completely exclusively feminine . As I put it , once the hundredandone artificially applied differences are removed , male and female humans are really very similar physically , so similar as to be often confusing .

  16. #16
    The old familiar sting blackbeltninja's Avatar
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    Re: If a man said a single thing this woman said in this video...

    Quote Originally Posted by thatgirl View Post
    Or did they take issue with being subjugated and dehumanized in patriarchies that only valued them for their wombs and treated them as second-class citizens to be traded off in marriage, bred and subjected to the whims of their male guardians?
    Point taken. However, I believe the practice of slavery and subjugation was not confined only to women.

    -d-
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  17. #17

    Re: If a man said a single thing this woman said in this video...

    Quote Originally Posted by csb999 View Post
    also additionally rather as an aside I predict our culture is moving towards gender neutrality , as it happens by gradually eliminating the completely exclusively feminine ...
    Yes, traditional masculinity is being emasculated by the PC Ninnies. They are demanding we celebrate the differences between cultures while eliminating those differences between the genders.

  18. #18
    thatgirl
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    Re: If a man said a single thing this woman said in this video...

    Quote Originally Posted by blackbeltninja View Post
    Point taken. However, I believe the practice of slavery and subjugation was not confined only to women.

    -d-
    True.

    And you'll find feminists speaking out on all forms of subjugation and discrimination

    LGBT rights, classism, slavery, racism, sexism, ableism, religious intolerence, sizeism, misandry. etc

    All these things are discussed within/alongside women's issues because there is a lot of intersectionality.

  19. #19

    Re: If a man said a single thing this woman said in this video...

    Oh, please no!

    Not the intersectionality!

  20. #20
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: If a man said a single thing this woman said in this video...

    Quote Originally Posted by thatgirl View Post
    Whether one identifies as a feminist or not, I think the movement -- in it's truly egalitarian forms -- helps both men and women dismantle and examine patriarchal traditions that have not only fucked over women but have also limited men in many ways, as well.
    I'd love to believe that were true, but if it were true, "the movement" would not be so dismissive of the idea of Men's Rights. It is truly offensive, and laughably hypocritical.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

  21. #21
    The Mother of Loki Laufey's Avatar
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    Re: If a man said a single thing this woman said in this video...

    Quote Originally Posted by thatgirl View Post
    While I get your concern, it's best not to make blanket statements about "feminists these days."

    Feminists these days come in a wide ranging variety. There are many brands of feminism, with many disagreements between them and competing ideologies. Some have even branched off as "womanists" because they feel that feminism is not accepting of them.

    And like any movement, you'll find "extremists" within it. It seems to me that most people take issue with 'Radical Feminists' but then generalize it to all feminists. See: the woman in the video for example.

    Whether one identifies as a feminist or not, I think the movement -- in it's truly egalitarian forms -- helps both men and women dismantle and examine patriarchal traditions that have not only fucked over women but have also limited men in many ways, as well.
    In my opinion it's not a good thing to even call it feminism. The name clearly suggests that it's a movement which mostly focuses on females. I've noticed more people here speak of themselves as equalists rather than feminists. This includes most young women. This is a great development in my opinion.

    And saying most feminists, in countries where women have full rights, is not generalizing. You see this very clearly in countries like Sweden and Iceland. I think it's probably because it's more difficult for the extremists to let go. Most women in these countries don't feel they are discriminated because of gender and therefor don't feel the need to be active feminists and label themselves in that way. The extremists on the other hand will just find new "problems" to attack. For example here we just changed the names of many streets from male to female because they thought there weren't enough of them. It pretty much shows how there aren't any real issues anymore which need to be tackled.

    My experience is mostly from my country and I realize it's not the same in most other countries.

    Quote Originally Posted by csb999 View Post
    also additionally rather as an aside I predict our culture is moving towards gender neutrality , as it happens by gradually eliminating the completely exclusively feminine . As I put it , once the hundredandone artificially applied differences are removed , male and female humans are really very similar physically , so similar as to be often confusing .
    Quote Originally Posted by pat grimshaw View Post
    Yes, traditional masculinity is being emasculated by the PC Ninnies. They are demanding we celebrate the differences between cultures while eliminating those differences between the genders.
    This is actually one of the main problems I have with many feminists. They claim that the difference in behavior between men and women is all from upbringing and that genes and hormones have nothing to do with it. Women and men are naturally different so behavior and statistics will never be the same. Some feminists think there won't be full equality until the statistics are the same for both genders. Also they never speak of statistics where men don't do as well. For example 2/3 of university students here are women and they never show any concern about it. It's "good equality" when it's in favor for women. 90% of the time women get custody of the children after divorcing and they never show any concern for that either.

  22. #22
    Count Hedgecula freefall's Avatar
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    Re: If a man said a single thing this woman said in this video...

    come now, my child. if we were planning to harm you, do you think
    we'd be lurking here beside the path in the darkest part of the forest?

  23. #23
    thatgirl
    Guest

    Re: If a man said a single thing this woman said in this video...

    Quote Originally Posted by pat grimshaw View Post
    Yes, traditional masculinity is being emasculated by the PC Ninnies. They are demanding we celebrate the differences between cultures while eliminating those differences between the genders.
    Sorry that some guys just don't want to be boxed in by traditional masculinity.



    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    I'd love to believe that were true, but if it were true, "the movement" would not be so dismissive of the idea of Men's Rights. It is truly offensive, and laughably hypocritical.
    I think MRAs are usually met with derision from many feminists because the way they tend to frame their arguments are often either not rooted in reality or they perpetuate the very patriarchal traditions that negatively impact on men and the expression of masculinity (beyond the very narrow-minded traditional views of it).

    ex 1 - It's actually men who have been oppressed throughout history by women! Men never had rights as awesome as women had! Currently men are at a disadvantage across the board!

    ex 2 - Remember the good old days when men were men and did these specifically manly things? Now they're all a bunch of sissies cos they've been castrated by feminists! If only feminism hadn't happened and women knew their place so men could be men! Now we have all these gays and metrosexual men running about, crying and talking about their emotions while doing each others nails.

    ^ These kinds of viewpoints are helping nobody. I'm actually interested in the idea of a men's movement that deals with issues unique to men and allows them to voice their concerns, especially since femnism has paved the way for changing the way we look at gender roles. It's important to examine how that has impacted men and the evolution of masculinity. Also, delving into what areas men need help in when it comes to breaking out of problematic/stifling gender expectations or stereotypes that marginalize them. Currently, with the MRA movement, I see a lot of frustration and lashing out at women and other groups. Do they make some valuable points? Yes, but it's just not coherent enough for me to take seriously for the most part. In time, I think it'll get its act together.

    Some of the discussion I see on sites like The Good Men Project give me hope that it's possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Geiri85 View Post
    In my opinion it's not a good thing to even call it feminism. The name clearly suggests that it's a movement which mostly focuses on females. I've noticed more people here speak of themselves as equalists rather than feminists. This includes most young women. This is a great development in my opinion.
    Equalists is simply too vague and can basically cover every topic under the sun that deals with discrimination/inequality.

    Gender Equalists would be more specific but still would not account for the fact that a focus on women's issues is necessary in closing the overall gender gap because it is women who are lagging behind as a whole on a global scale. Whenever they conduct worldwide studies/research, the statistics point to this...

    Thus the term "feminism" -- it focuses on the specific ways in which women experience marginalization and ensures that their needs are voiced because gender inequalities generally affect them a great deal more on an institutional/systemic level when it comes to economic opportunities, education, political representation, etc. The term signifies advocacy for women to help them garner equality, not advocacy for the oppression of men.

    This sort of specialization isn't unique to women's movements. When a form of discrimination is being addressed, it has to be filtered through a particular lens. Civil Rights Movement, LGBT Movement. etc

  24. #24
    WTF????? refujiunderground's Avatar
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    Re: If a man said a single thing this woman said in this video...

    Quote Originally Posted by Comrad View Post
    You really don't wanna know what I think about of Feminist. Mind you I never finished the entire video. She is out of her fuckin mind. Maybe she should look around her and look at the world that MEN created for her. The voice that MEN allow her to have. The computer that MEN created so she can get her ridiculous message out. I think I will end it here for the time being.
    well, at least you admitted that you didn't watch the video. i'll give you that. you also didn't get it either.
    one thing about the closet/you don't have to hurry/it will be bad tomorrow/so brother, don't you worry

  25. #25
    WTF????? refujiunderground's Avatar
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    Re: If a man said a single thing this woman said in this video...

    as for this discussion.

    i just think that people in general like to feel that they have power and control. the easiest way to achieve that is by putting down other people. in society, you've always had a group of people that had the power and control basically putting down other people who weren't like them or making other people feel like they're not worthy or capable of being in power or having control. that's the case here. now that equality is becoming the norm and women are working their way to power positions in the workplace and society. you have women basically doing the same thing that men back in the day used to do to them. that's not to say that they're still not a disadvantaged group where they're vunerable (you still have male politicians in america trying to overturn roe v. wade, basically reverting back to the whole men have control over women and their bodies.).

    nowadays, you have women in general basically on a power trip where they use the fact that because they're a woman that gives them the right to basically take advantage of a man where she has power over him. they want him to pay for the dinner, hold the door for her, basically pay the bills in the household, and do this, that and the fifth while she gets to work, keep the money she has, and etc, basically independent while basically living off of a guy. she basically has him at her will finding all the excuses in the book to why that is. "i'm a woman. the man is supposed to be the provider". the flip side to that you have men that are like that too with the whole "i want a woman that i can control and have power over." it's sad.
    one thing about the closet/you don't have to hurry/it will be bad tomorrow/so brother, don't you worry

  26. #26
    AshyPhoenix
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    Re: If a man said a single thing this woman said in this video...

    I can't reply to everyone because there's a lot of stuff said in this thread, but I'm really enjoying where this discussion is going.

    Quote Originally Posted by thatgirl View Post
    I think pretty much everyone can agree on and acknowledge that the primitive gender roles that ensured the survival of the species were borne out of necessity and convenience.

    There is absolutely nothing that is inherently wrong with taking on traditional gender roles when it comes to who earns income/resources for the family and who maintains the household and takes on the child-rearing. So long as one role isn't valued more than the other and people have a say in how they want to manage their families, in this day and age, it's all good.
    And I think that's the idea behind true gender equality. If men and women were equally valued in this modern society, there would be no need for the MRA movement or feminism. I'd love to see a world where men are allowed to be makeup artists and women are allowed to be plumbers with zero judgment from anyone on either side, and I think with the advent of the men's rights movement, that's a distinct possibility.

    A quote Girl Says What mentioned really spoke to me: "Our society reduces men from human beings to human doings." On a large scale, we're stereotyped into the essential roles in society (plumbers, electricians, scientists, architects, etc.), and the value of a man is judged by how much he can contribute to the building blocks of society. Men who don't contribute anything of solid, tangible worth to the world are considered "lesser", while women are allowed to pursue careers in which their contributions, while equally valid, aren't as easily measured (interior decorating, artistry, modeling, etc.). That's not to say that either of these traditional roles are invalid or one is better than the other; quite the contrary. Both of them are integral to our modern society. When a man can contribute to making the world a more beautiful place and a woman can contribute to making the world work better, without any judgment being laid upon them, I think we'll know we have full gender equality.

    On the other hand...

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    I'd love to believe that were true, but if it were true, "the movement" would not be so dismissive of the idea of Men's Rights. It is truly offensive, and laughably hypocritical.
    Keep in mind that feminism was probably regarded in the exact same way back when they started pushing for their rights. "Oh, silly women, don't they understand that there are specific gender roles that must be adhered to or else society will crumble?" That could be said by either the chauvinists of the 50s or the radical feminists of the 21st century, if you switch the genders.

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