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View Poll Results: I prefer to reduce the budget by:

Voters
14. You may not vote on this poll
  • Raising taxes o% and cutting spending 100%

    1 7.14%
  • Raising taxes 10% and cutting spending 90%

    0 0%
  • Raising taxes 20% and cutting spending 80%

    2 14.29%
  • Raising taxes 30% and cutting spending 70%

    0 0%
  • Raising taxes 40% and cutting spending 60%

    4 28.57%
  • Raising taxes 50% and cutting spending 50%

    3 21.43%
  • Raising taxes 60% and cutting spending 40%

    2 14.29%
  • Raising taxes 70% and cutting spending 30%

    0 0%
  • Raising taxes 80% and cutting spending 20%

    1 7.14%
  • Raising taxes 90% and cutting spending10%

    1 7.14%
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Thread: Democrats Stiffen Spine Against Trimming Benefits

      
   
  1. #1
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    Democrats Stiffen Spine Against Trimming Benefits



    The new balance of power means that Democrats who once would have acquiesced reluctantly to GOP demands for stiff benefit cuts are now balking at ideas such as chained CPI or an increase in the Medicare retirement age, as well as demanding GOP concessions to higher taxes.

    "The price for that kind of thing has gone up," said a senior House Democrat who required anonymity to speak frankly on party strategy. "Negotiations depend on the situation. No one should expect to get the same kind of deal."

    Republicans have gotten the message, but insist that higher tax revenues be paired with cuts to rapidly growing programs such as Medicare and the Medicaid health care program for the poor and disabled.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...p_ref=politics

    It will be interesting to see what this is going to turn out like. I am interested in everyones opinion on this topic.

    First what percentage of the deal that the congress makes should be tax increases and how much should be spending cuts. I am going to post a poll so that people can choose their rate in that way.

    After you vote, though, would you comment on what tax increase you would like to see... Corporate or upper income individuals, across the spectrum tax hikes... whatever you think about that.

    I would also appreciate your opinions on what programs need to be cut and why. Are they ineficient, do you have moral issue with a certain expense, are there programs that can be merged... again... whatever your issue is there.

    Thanks guys!
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    Re: Democrats Stiffen Spine Against Trimming Benefits

    Lose all the Bush tax cuts, while increasing the individual exemption by $2k.
    Add a new tax bracket at $500k and go back to JFK tax levels for it.

    Reduce taxes on purely domestic businesses by half. Reduce them on all others by 2%.
    Slash corporate welfare.

    Freeze all federal government spending except on infrastructure.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  3. #3
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    Re: Democrats Stiffen Spine Against Trimming Benefits

    I love the title

    "stiffen spine"

    "spineless" is more like it

    budget conversations w/o entitlement cuts are meaningless

    I guess "the word is out"

    no entitlement reform

    regardless of the ability to pay for it

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    Re: Democrats Stiffen Spine Against Trimming Benefits

    'Entitlements' is a silly word to begin with; it just messes with the conversation.

    Each one should be in its own lock-box.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Democrats Stiffen Spine Against Trimming Benefits

    Once again no opinion from the right just hurled insults of the process... sigh..

    I actually voted and desire to contribute to the argument.

    I voted 50/50 because I do think we could find a dollar to cut for every dollar of revenue raised... I am a weird duck though because I would be against raising taxes moderately on the middle class. Not by the 3000 average that expiring Bush tax cuts would cause but perhaps a third of that. I think we could see a myriad of savings from the military. The Army and Marines need to reduce forces back to pre-2001 levels because we are not in two wars and soon will not be in any wars... that is three battalions of manpower that is un-needed to sit idle while at peace. We obviously ramped up into two conflicts rather seamlessly so I previous posture was a good stance to have.

    I think we could cut from every department of government without lowering services. While I am not sophisticated enough to talk about each department without facts to work with I know there are plenty of people in the US who could provide specifics. Perhaps take one piece of the Romney ideas that seemed very feasible and reduce the size of Federal departments by simply funding the sates to do it themselves... education is one area that could be quite successful I think.
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    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


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    Re: Democrats Stiffen Spine Against Trimming Benefits

    P.S. I agree with Democrats that SOcial Security has dick all to do with the budget as is a separate program with its own tax. I like the idea of eliminating or raising the payroll tax cap. That alone can easily solve the SS issue and provide 95% of the funds to remove that insolvency.
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    Re: Democrats Stiffen Spine Against Trimming Benefits

    Thanks for all the serious replies so far.

    I would appreciate a conservative perspective on policy if anyone out there wants to write one. I think that the ideas of both sides ought to be considered, and would appreciate a thought out, post that outlines how their ideas will benefit the nation.

    There are benefits to raising taxes. There are benefits to cutting spending. There are people in washington deciding this for us right how. Does anyone want to think about what they want the turn out to be, or do we all think the congress is trustworthy enough to handle it on their own.

    Yeah

    Right.

    SO you guys please take the opportunity to express your ideas on the revenue/austerity proportions and how it woud be best to porceed, before taking shots at others who have done so
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  8. #8
    loki81
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    Re: Democrats Stiffen Spine Against Trimming Benefits

    personally, I'd:

    -let all the Bush tax cuts expire
    -withdraw from Afghanistan and cut the military's budget back to pre-war levels
    -raise the retirement age to 67 for anyone currently under the age of 60

  9. #9
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    Re: Democrats Stiffen Spine Against Trimming Benefits

    I would start at the 50/50 equation with an emphasis on dramatically reducing spending in the military and in any programs that should be funded only at the state level. Downloading is a bitch, but in Canada, it became the way to transfer the debt back to the taxpayer at the provincial and local level and brought the federal deficit under control. It has, though, meant that the provinces have had to focus on health and education as the primary areas of concern, while all the other services are gradually gutted or abandoned.

    The feds might also turn off the tap to the states that receive more than they contribute by capping the transfer payments. These states will then have to focus on finding solutions to their own fiscal management crises.

    Probably, although sad to say, there should be huge reductions at the department of agriculture and an end to all the federal subsidies to farmers and protection of cheap food for people who could afford to pay a greater percentage of income for food.

    As well, the feds should be looking to move out of the infrastructure funding business unless the project is demonstrated to have an impact on interstate transportation or safety. Let the states raise their tax rates to get all intra-state projects done.

    All western countries will be moving to the retirement age being raised to 67, so that is a no brainer.

    What the federal government can do is to ensure that every citizen in the US has access to medical care, food and basic shelter as well as any of the services like monetary policy and consumer protection, defense and, of course the environment.

    Of course, the US role and importance in world affairs will diminish tremendously, but at the same time, it will no longer be a target for the disaffected and religiously insane.

    It would really be like Canada, only with nukes.

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    Re: Democrats Stiffen Spine Against Trimming Benefits

    1. Stop calling Social Security and Medicare "entitlements". They aren't. The programs are paid for by people who paid into them. Social Security hasn't contributed one dime to the nations deficit.
    2. Cut the overbloated defense budget. We do not need 800 embassies around the world and troops all over the world in places that are completely unnecessary. For example, why do we need 50,000 troops in Germany?? Get out of Afghanistan now. Abandon the Bush doctrine of pre-emptive war. We do not need to be spending more than the combined defense budgets of 9 other major nations in the world. That is insane.
    3. End the Bush tax cuts. Period.
    4. Raise the retirement age for anyone under 50 and do not allow a privatization option because it would basically de-fund the existing program. That alone will preserve social security for generations to come.
    5. Tax all the so-called Super PACS. Why should they enjoy tax free income.
    6. Combine Medicare and Obamacare. There is no need for two separate bureaucracies. Medicare is already in place and works. At the same time, strenuously attack and end Medicare abuse by unethical companies and individuals. That abuse is costing the program billions.
    7. SERIOUSLY make every effort to bring the unemployment rate down to 5%. If only 3% more people were working and paying taxes, that alone would cut the deficit by trillions over 10 years.
    8. FORBID Congress to take anymore funds out of social security that are replaced by worthless IOU's. Congress now owes social security nearly $3 trillion. Cut the defense budget and start paying it back.
    9. End so-called "nation building" around the world and start rebuilding this nation...for a change.
    10. Stop playing "nanny" for the rest of the world.
    11. Tax corporations who outsource jobs. Reward corporations who create jobs here.
    12. Reinstate tariffs on imports to those nations who tax our exports to them.

  11. #11
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    Re: Democrats Stiffen Spine Against Trimming Benefits

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Lose all the Bush tax cuts, while increasing the individual exemption by $2k.
    Add a new tax bracket at $500k and go back to JFK tax levels for it.

    Reduce taxes on purely domestic businesses by half. Reduce them on all others by 2%.
    Slash corporate welfare.

    Freeze all federal government spending except on infrastructure.
    I'm on board with this, with one addition. Get the hell out these freaking wars.



  12. #12
    loki81
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    Re: Democrats Stiffen Spine Against Trimming Benefits

    1. Stop calling Social Security and Medicare "entitlements". They aren't. The programs are paid for by people who paid into them. Social Security hasn't contributed one dime to the nations deficit.
    not entirely... my social security payments are paying for people who are retiring right now.

    when I retire in 40 years... I fully expect social security as we know it to be gone, so that's money I'm paying that I'll never see returned to me one way or the other.

    I believe SS payouts have been greater than SS revenues since 2010? that's likely to exacerbate as income growth stays flat and population growth decreases.

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    Re: Democrats Stiffen Spine Against Trimming Benefits

    Quote Originally Posted by loki81 View Post
    not entirely... my social security payments are paying for people who are retiring right now.

    when I retire in 40 years... I fully expect social security as we know it to be gone, so that's money I'm paying that I'll never see returned to me one way or the other.

    I believe SS payouts have been greater than SS revenues since 2010? that's likely to exacerbate as income growth stays flat and population growth decreases.
    how about a little tinkering in a different way with social security, which by the way, holds more of the national debt than China. China only holds eleven percent.

    Not reinvesting the social security money in the way that they do would not allow the fund to keep up with inflation. Or so the idea goes... You have dead money that is not acruing interest if you are not lending it out at a modest interest rate. Gov't rarely keeps pots of cash sitting around.

    That is not really an effective way of doing business.

    “The most effective way to strengthen Social Security for the next 75 years is to eliminate the cap on the payroll tax on income above $250,000. Right now, someone who earns $110,100 pays the same amount of money into Social Security as a billionaire. That makes no sense,” said Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders, the chairman of the Defending Social Security Caucus. He also chairs the Senate aging subcommittee.
    https://www.commondreams.org/headline/2012/04/24-2
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  14. #14
    loki81
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    Re: Democrats Stiffen Spine Against Trimming Benefits

    ^ I would agree with that.

    I'd also support treating capital gains as income for the purposes of taxation once they exceed a certain mark.

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    Re: Democrats Stiffen Spine Against Trimming Benefits

    I see quite a few things here I agree with, like what Orlandodude said

    Of course cut the military. There really is no reason for troops in Europe, that is what NATO is for. All members should contribute equally. End the Afghan war ASAP. Stop the gauging of the gov by companies like Haliburton

    Retirement age to 67, over 60 grandfathered @ 65.

    Stop subsidizing big oil, pharma & insurance.

    End Bush tax cuts. Raise taxes on people above 250K. I like the idea of new rates for income above 500k or 1Million.

    Close loopholes for folks like Romney, who stash their $$ offf shore. Penalize Corps who outsource American jobs overseas.

    Tax Religious Organizations who try to intefere with gov or elections. When said organizations "give" to things like Prop 8 or anti gay initiatives, the amount given should be taxed. Just think how much CA would have gained from the Mormon & Catholic churches

    If the NRA really believes that assault weapons are necessary (never know when an armour plated herd of deer will attack) then tax the bejeezus out of buyers

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    Re: Democrats Stiffen Spine Against Trimming Benefits

    Quote Originally Posted by loki81 View Post
    I believe SS payouts have been greater than SS revenues since 2010?
    True, but taking the trust fund’s accumulated interest earnings into account, its nominal balance will continue to grow until about 2020. At that time redemption of the trust fund reserves will exceed interest earnings, resulting in exhaustion of the trust fund -- currently predicted to occur in 2033.


  17. #17

    Re: Democrats Stiffen Spine Against Trimming Benefits

    Democrats have spines?

    Gotta love that title.



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    Re: Democrats Stiffen Spine Against Trimming Benefits

    Seems their spines were a damn sight stiffer this year than those republicans running scared from their own party these days.... you must not have gotten the talking points yet.... check your email.
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    Re: Democrats Stiffen Spine Against Trimming Benefits

    Thanks for all the ideas so far. I am enjoying the responses. Lots of food for thought.

    Is anyone worried that too much austerity will cause a double dip recession, as it just has in Europe? I guess yes, since most people are going for a pretty ballanced tax increase versus spending cuts model.

    I personally think that as long as it's not below Fifty percent in revenue on the final deal, we will be fine. We need revenue and we need jobs.

    Has anyone considered the half trillion dollar fix that the coast is going to need this next year coming?
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    Re: Democrats Stiffen Spine Against Trimming Benefits

    Quote Originally Posted by BostonPirate View Post
    Thanks for all the serious replies so far.

    I would appreciate a conservative perspective on policy if anyone out there wants to write one. I think that the ideas of both sides ought to be considered, and would appreciate a thought out, post that outlines how their ideas will benefit the nation.
    A hiring freeze and budget freeze would be a conservative approach -- actually, a conservative conservative approach, conservative because it proceeds cautiously and conservative because it minimizes disruption.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Democrats Stiffen Spine Against Trimming Benefits

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    Probably, although sad to say, there should be huge reductions at the department of agriculture and an end to all the federal subsidies to farmers and protection of cheap food for people who could afford to pay a greater percentage of income for food.
    Just restore the farm subsidies to their original intent: to help family farms manage.

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    As well, the feds should be looking to move out of the infrastructure funding business unless the project is demonstrated to have an impact on interstate transportation or safety. Let the states raise their tax rates to get all intra-state projects done.
    The states can currently get federal money for transportation for two reasons: first, as a trade-off from when the feds handed all the US Highway system over to the states; second, because commerce travels on all those roads.

    If you want to reduce federal funding of transportation, you have to reduce federal interference in state matters on commerce as well, by giving up on the authoritarian interpretation of a commerce clause that was meant to limit federal power, not to make it infinite.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Democrats Stiffen Spine Against Trimming Benefits

    Quote Originally Posted by cityboy-stl View Post
    I'm on board with this, with one addition. Get the hell out these freaking wars.
    I didn't include that because it's being worked on.

    Quote Originally Posted by loki81 View Post
    I believe SS payouts have been greater than SS revenues since 2010? that's likely to exacerbate as income growth stays flat and population growth decreases.
    Can't find it, but IIRC Bill Clinton outlined a plan that would keep SS solvent for another seventy years -- and by then, assuming we wouldn't be paying any interest on any national debt, a plan could be worked to keep it solvent.

    Quote Originally Posted by loki81 View Post
    ^ I would agree with that.

    I'd also support treating capital gains as income for the purposes of taxation once they exceed a certain mark.
    Simple: either your existing actually earned income, or a hundred times the median income, whichever is smaller.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lestatnj View Post
    If the NRA really believes that assault weapons are necessary (never know when an armour plated herd of deer will attack) then tax the bejeezus out of buyers
    There's no such thing as an "assault weapon" -- the term indicates nothing but something a politician finds cosmetically objectionable. Not a single "assault weapon" on Clinton's old list was any different than any gun that's been for sale since Prohibition.

    And it's unconstitutional to tax the exercise of a right.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Democrats Stiffen Spine Against Trimming Benefits

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Democrats have spines?

    Gotta love that title.



    Order now for delivery by Christmas.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  24. #24

    Re: Democrats Stiffen Spine Against Trimming Benefits

    ^^^

    Self portrait?
    "That’s the good thing about being president. I can do whatever I want.” Barack Obama, 2-10-14

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