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  1. #1
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    Barbara Bush On Obama's Reelection: 'People Spoke. Move On, Get On With It'

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2141769.html

    "I'm tired now of the elections," Bush, who had endorsed Republican Mitt Romney, said at a forum on America's first ladies. "People spoke. Move on, get on with it. I want to do other things and not to be ugly."

    Bush, sporting a double strand of her signature pearls, joined former first lady Laura Bush on a panel for the Enduring Legacies of America's First Ladies conference at the Lyndon Baines Johnson Presidential Library.

    The first ladies avoided offering political opinions, but Barbara Bush did issue a stern warning to both Republicans and Democrats.

    "They are going to have to compromise," said Barbara Bush, the wife of former President George H.W. Bush. "It's not a dirty word."
    Barbara Bush stepped out as the matriarch of the Bush plutocracy to urge the GOP faithful that it's time to let the bitterness go.

    It's a concerted effort, I've noticed, that the Bushes have been engaged in for the last week. It's clear that the Bushes want the GOP back, and realistically they may be their only way forward.

    Jeb is married to a Latina, and his son, also going into politics for the first time this year, a bush who is half latino, is expected to be a soon rising star in the future GOP.

    Do you think that the rest of the Bushes combined can overcome the damage that Dubya did to their name as a political brand?
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    Re: Barbara Bush On Obama's Reelection: 'People Spoke. Move On, Get On With It'

    If it keeps the Bush's out of the White House, I'm all for the Repub hardliners being as intractable as possible.

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    Re: Barbara Bush On Obama's Reelection: 'People Spoke. Move On, Get On With It'

    Boston i actually think the country would have been a much better place if Jeb vice George was the favorite son and went up first....

    That and american minds are fleeting when it comes to bad news. They will forget by the time a George P Bush runs for national office.... he has a long way to go in Texas politics and you will see Texas politics move to the center more so than ever before....

    So yeah George P Bush has a great shot... Jeb Bush has no chance and I dont think he wants it....
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    Evolving...give it a try. Críostóir's Avatar
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    Re: Barbara Bush On Obama's Reelection: 'People Spoke. Move On, Get On With It'

    First sensible thing I've EVER heard that evil woman say. Thank you for pointing out that it's dynastically self-serving.

    And no, I don't think they can overcome it. At least I hope not. The Bushes who are left are more like that idiot Dubya (two terms) than like his relatively harmless father (one term), and my parentheses contain the only calculation they'll care about.
    ____
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    Re: Barbara Bush On Obama's Reelection: 'People Spoke. Move On, Get On With It'

    I love Barbara. I really think she is a Dem. Who knows what lever she pulls in the booth.
    And lest you forget, it was Jeb that sold NOLA the pumps that failed and flooded the poor section.
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    Re: Barbara Bush On Obama's Reelection: 'People Spoke. Move On, Get On With It'

    Quote Originally Posted by White Eagle View Post
    I love Barbara. I really think she is a Dem. Who knows what lever she pulls in the booth.
    And lest you forget, it was Jeb that sold NOLA the pumps that failed and flooded the poor section.
    1- 2- 3.....wait for it.... absoltuely wrong WE.

    The levee were designed porrly and failed during Katrina while waters were for the most part within what was supposed to be design criteria....

    The pumps you refer to were installed after Katrina to prevent a second fllod and have been plagued with vibration and maintenance issues but have never failed....

    This is something engineering on a grand scale cannot often perform exactly at the snap of a finger as those less informed of the process would like....

    Additionally the company that provided the pumps WAS a previous beusiness partner with Jeb Bush but not anymore...

    MWI is owned by J. David Eller and his sons. Eller was once a business partner of former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush in a venture called Bush-El that marketed MWI pumps. And Eller has donated about $128,000 to politicians, the vast majority of it to the Republican Party, since 1996, according to the Center for Responsive Politics.
    Finally the premature report of pumps failing were based off of the initial testing and were inaccurate as they did not follow the entire test and then repair process to bring things up to standard.... think of it like this... if you turn your garden hose on and it leaks do you take the hose back or tighten the connection? That depends on the leak however those pumps are still in place and still projected to work quite well.
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    Re: Barbara Bush On Obama's Reelection: 'People Spoke. Move On, Get On With It'

    Quote Originally Posted by White Eagle View Post
    I love Barbara. I really think she is a Dem. Who knows what lever she pulls in the booth.
    And lest you forget, it was Jeb that sold NOLA the pumps that failed and flooded the poor section.
    Here's what the depraved old white lady had to say about all those dusky people in the Astrodome:

    Quote Originally Posted by Barbara Bush
    What I'm hearing, which is sort of scary, is they all want to stay in Texas. Everyone is so overwhelmed by the hospitality.

    And so many of the people in the arena here, you know, were underprivileged anyway, so this is working very well for them.
    In other words, she found it scary that all those black people (most of them) wanted to stay in Texas, and was so contemptuous of them that she really believed the squalor and hardship they were enduring was really OK.

    I was indifferent to her before I heard about this. Since then I hate her guts.

    And yeah, it's hard to believe anyone would say anything that callous and heartless. But she did. Here's the Snopes link.
    ____
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    Re: Barbara Bush On Obama's Reelection: 'People Spoke. Move On, Get On With It'

    While it is easy to be cynical and demand she hates the poor and the blacks even more than the poor and that sells well in Librul' land it is in no way possible that she meant it is scary to think of how fucking horrible life was in Louisiana that Texas is so much better so people have no intention of going home....


    But hey it is fun to hate the Bush's
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
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    Re: Barbara Bush On Obama's Reelection: 'People Spoke. Move On, Get On With It'

    Barbara Bush is a strong person who cannot be pushed. For some reason she hated Franklin Roosevelt, so she is definately not a Democrat. I am happy that she realizes that it is time to move on.

    Yes, I think that a Bush can one day again run for president. The Bushes are almost a political dynasty a little less powerful than the Kennedys.

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    Evolving...give it a try. Críostóir's Avatar
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    Re: Barbara Bush On Obama's Reelection: 'People Spoke. Move On, Get On With It'

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    While it is easy to be cynical and demand she hates the poor and the blacks even more than the poor and that sells well in Librul' land it is in no way possible that she meant it is scary to think of how fucking horrible life was in Louisiana that Texas is so much better so people have no intention of going home....
    Wow. I was wondering how the right wing would whitewash (and I do mean white) her appalling statement. I HEARD her say that. She was LAUGHING. Sorry, but your analysis is bullshit.

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    But hey it is fun to hate the Bush's
    Not really fun, just hard to avoid. And I really don't hate George H.W. Bush, despite his crimes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rickrock View Post
    Yes, I think that a Bush can one day again run for president. The Bushes are almost a political dynasty a little less powerful than the Kennedys.
    And of course we keep having Kennedys run for president. Oh wait, no, not since 1980, and Ted didn't get the nomination (Jimmy Carter "whupped his ass," as he put it at the time).

    Anyway, I sure hope you're wrong. Eight years of total incompetence, belligerent foreign policy, and fiscal irresponsibility are enough - and in fact we haven't climbed out of the hole that moron put us in yet.
    ____
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  11. #11
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    Re: Barbara Bush On Obama's Reelection: 'People Spoke. Move On, Get On With It'

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    Boston i actually think the country would have been a much better place if Jeb vice George was the favorite son and went up first....

    That and american minds are fleeting when it comes to bad news. They will forget by the time a George P Bush runs for national office.... he has a long way to go in Texas politics and you will see Texas politics move to the center more so than ever before....

    So yeah George P Bush has a great shot... Jeb Bush has no chance and I dont think he wants it....
    Jeb was harder to manipulate. Cheney wanted a puppet.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

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  12. #12
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Barbara Bush On Obama's Reelection: 'People Spoke. Move On, Get On With It'

    Quote Originally Posted by Críostóir View Post
    Wow. I was wondering how the right wing would whitewash (and I do mean white) her appalling statement. I HEARD her say that. She was LAUGHING. Sorry, but your analysis is bullshit.
    Well we each have our mental needs that should be addressed ... we will have healthcare soon so those interesting opinions can be worked through....lol

    BTW I found the left wings delusions about the President just as lunatic as the right wings delusions this time around.... just depends on which side is losing as to whom is more delusional
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  13. #13
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    Re: Barbara Bush On Obama's Reelection: 'People Spoke. Move On, Get On With It'

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    While it is easy to be cynical and demand she hates the poor and the blacks even more than the poor and that sells well in Librul' land it is in no way possible that she meant it is scary to think of how fucking horrible life was in Louisiana that Texas is so much better so people have no intention of going home....


    But hey it is fun to hate the Bush's
    I had no idea people felt this passionately about old Babs the Bush... who would have thought. Well I never!



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    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Barbara Bush On Obama's Reelection: 'People Spoke. Move On, Get On With It'

    I dont feel that passionate about her really... I am typically against the grain when it appears off the scale and ignorant assumptions are made... she could be just as callous and shitty as Cristoir' is inferring... i really have no idea but the hyper-nutso claims by both parties are the reason our two parties are mortal enemies now instead of two sides of the same American people.
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  15. #15
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    Re: Barbara Bush On Obama's Reelection: 'People Spoke. Move On, Get On With It'

    I have no opinion on Barbara, really.

    Jeb is positioning himself for a run though... http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0612/77137.html

    George P may wind up being the Gov of Texas before anything else...



    "We have said from day one that George P. is looking where he can best serve the state and people of Texas which includes considering Texas Land Commissioner as well as Attorney General, Texas Comptroller and other statewide positions," he said in an emailed statement responding to the letter.
    "Right now, the organization is in an exploratory process," Newton continued, "where George P. is travelling the state meeting with Texans about how best to serve."
    Bush, a 36-year-old attorney from Fort Worth, is a Spanish-speaker whose mother, Columba, is originally from Mexico. He is deputy finance chairman of the Republican Party of Texas. His uncle is George W. Bush, who was Texas' governor before becoming president. His grandfather is George H.W. Bush.

    Read more: http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/pol...#ixzz2CWZnsn3W

    So George P will be among the elected chattering class by the time the mid term elections are here.
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  16. #16
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Barbara Bush On Obama's Reelection: 'People Spoke. Move On, Get On With It'

    Jeb Bush is positioning himself for a run? Have these guys lost their mind? The Bush name... this is a dynasty that just needs to go away and stay away. I think the republicans really don't want to win the White House anymore... I think they just want to crawl under a rock and shrivel up. The republicans potentially lost an entire generation of voters and it will be catastrophic. I think Barbara Bush realizes how badly these guys have fucked up.

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    Re: Barbara Bush On Obama's Reelection: 'People Spoke. Move On, Get On With It'

    GC no offense because it was a good win but it was by a mere 3 million votes which is a huge percent in a modern election... however if they get right with gay marriage and immigration and just shut the fuck up about abortion... essentially just say that Roe v Wade is the law of the land then they have very easy potential... Single white women went hard for Obama but imagine if there was no abortion or contraceptive issue at stake?

    Well guess what health care will be law and along with it contraception so if republicans get solidly behind immigration (Which the Bush clan could have a prominent voice because Bush was for amnesty) then they simply accept any SCOTUS decisions on Gay marriage... well now you would have a moderate party that has a divergent fiscal view.

    I think the economy will recover to a degree by 2015 but it will by no means be booming.... so they will have the ability to paint a different picture with a moderate candidate... i don't think it will be Jed but he may play into the primaries... meanwhile democrats will be having primaries tooo...

    Dont kid yourself this isn't a end game election by any means whatsoever..... I have said before if the republican party was for immigration reform, not opposing gay equality then i couyld find a moderate voice like that appealing depending on the rest of their platform.... I am not alone by no means.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
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  18. #18
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Barbara Bush On Obama's Reelection: 'People Spoke. Move On, Get On With It'

    No offense, but not true. They have a major generational gap. The turn-out in younger voters was lower this election, but that could easily shift. Those who are in their later 20s and 30s are shifting towards democrat. While it was by a mere 3 million votes, but the republican party royally screwed up with younger voters. They don't have much of a chance on the path they are going, and certainly not with another Bush.

    The economy has been recovering, and will continue to do so. In the next few years, I think 7-8 million jobs should be created and unemployment should be around in the 5.5-6% range (by 2015).

    I'm not saying this election is an end game... but I'm saying the republicans really screwed up with Latinos and young voters... and that will have long lasting effects. Latino voters are increasingly finding their voice within the electoral system and there could be shifts in states like Georgia and Arizona towards the Democratic Party. A moderate voice? Fat chance.

    http://news.yahoo.com/romney-relies-...050409581.html

    Old habits die hard... and this isn't one that will be going away.

    California is a good foreshadowing for what could happen nationally... maybe nationally there won't be a democratic supermajority, but the democrats will continue their stranglehold. And so far the republican reaction to their loss has been one of stubbornness and reactionary politics.

    Expect a reactionary to win the republican nomination in 2016. That's my prediction.

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    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Barbara Bush On Obama's Reelection: 'People Spoke. Move On, Get On With It'

    Well that is the beauty of politics is the long game. We will find out who is seeing the tea leaves correctly....

    Surprisingly since a higher percentage of the youth vote went towards Romney it would seem that youth divide isnt quite so dependable... check out this wapo link

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv...12-exit-polls/
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
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  20. #20
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Barbara Bush On Obama's Reelection: 'People Spoke. Move On, Get On With It'

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    Well that is the beauty of politics is the long game. We will find out who is seeing the tea leaves correctly....
    I see a paradigm shift... only time will tell if I'm right... but I can interpret what's going on with Latinos and younger voters. Lets not forget Latinos are becoming more strongly pro-democrat and that will have an impact in future elections.

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    Re: Barbara Bush On Obama's Reelection: 'People Spoke. Move On, Get On With It'

    Sure but they also indicated specific issues drive their opinion and if those issues are neutralized with bipartisan solutions then it becomes a message game again...just saying don't get over exuberant....
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
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  22. #22
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Barbara Bush On Obama's Reelection: 'People Spoke. Move On, Get On With It'

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    Sure but they also indicated specific issues drive their opinion and if those issues are neutralized with bipartisan solutions then it becomes a message game again...just saying don't get over exuberant....
    I'm not being overly exuberant. But as far as specific issues, I think it's much more than that. Latinos have been democrat for a long time... Bush was the most successful getting them to vote republican and that was only 40%. Republicans have never had an edge among Latinos... and I expect it to get increasingly difficult for them. I think it's not just specific issues, but rather an overall ideological divide... this has been brewing since the time of Cesar Chavez really.

    Unless the republican party has a major realignment, I just don't see them getting anymore than 30% of Latino voters.

  23. #23
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    Re: Barbara Bush On Obama's Reelection: 'People Spoke. Move On, Get On With It'

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    ...Dont kid yourself this isn't a end game election by any means whatsoever..... I have said before if the republican party was for immigration reform, not opposing gay equality then i couyld find a moderate voice like that appealing depending on the rest of their platform.... I am not alone by no means.
    So if the Pubs weren't the Pubs a whole lot more people would vote for them?

    The fundie right will never give up abortion, gay marriage, or the brown horde all the little Bush's will have to oust them, capitulate or start a new party. That is IF they in fact disagree in the first place.
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  24. #24
    loki81
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    Re: Barbara Bush On Obama's Reelection: 'People Spoke. Move On, Get On With It'

    I don't hate JEB... but I don't expect I'll ever see a Bush run for President again in my lifetime.

    even if it's a totally unrelated person whose last name also happens to be Bush, I think the brand is critically damaged.

  25. #25
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Barbara Bush On Obama's Reelection: 'People Spoke. Move On, Get On With It'

    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    So if the Pubs weren't the Pubs a whole lot more people would vote for them?

    The fundie right will never give up abortion, gay marriage, or the brown horde all the little Bush's will have to oust them, capitulate or start a new party. That is IF they in fact disagree in the first place.
    I agree. A realignment doesn't seem to be in the works for the GOP... looking at what they have out there as far as candidates. Ted Cruz said something incredibly idiotic recently about the third debate... just goes to show business as usual.

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    Re: Barbara Bush On Obama's Reelection: 'People Spoke. Move On, Get On With It'

    Quote Originally Posted by Críostóir View Post
    Here's what the depraved old white lady had to say about all those dusky people in the Astrodome:



    In other words, she found it scary that all those black people (most of them) wanted to stay in Texas, and was so contemptuous of them that she really believed the squalor and hardship they were enduring was really OK.

    I was indifferent to her before I heard about this. Since then I hate her guts.

    And yeah, it's hard to believe anyone would say anything that callous and heartless. But she did. Here's the Snopes link.
    I'm sorry, but I read the link and I don't feel she was being that callous and heartless. Staying here would be better for them.
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    Re: Barbara Bush On Obama's Reelection: 'People Spoke. Move On, Get On With It'

    Quote Originally Posted by BostonPirate View Post
    I have no opinion on Barbara, really.

    Jeb is positioning himself for a run though... http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0612/77137.html

    George P may wind up being the Gov of Texas before anything else...






    Read more: http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/pol...#ixzz2CWZnsn3W

    So George P will be among the elected chattering class by the time the mid term elections are here.
    I don't know George P other than he is a looker. But that don't make the politician. Altho he will have an easier time because of it. I just don't trust the Bushes, other than Barbara. I lived in Houston when they were there and found her quite trustworthy.
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    Evolving...give it a try. Críostóir's Avatar
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    Re: Barbara Bush On Obama's Reelection: 'People Spoke. Move On, Get On With It'

    Quote Originally Posted by loki81 View Post
    I don't hate JEB... but I don't expect I'll ever see a Bush run for President again in my lifetime.

    even if it's a totally unrelated person whose last name also happens to be Bush, I think the brand is critically damaged.
    I sure hope you're right.
    ____
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    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Barbara Bush On Obama's Reelection: 'People Spoke. Move On, Get On With It'

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    I'm not being overly exuberant. But as far as specific issues, I think it's much more than that. Latinos have been democrat for a long time... Bush was the most successful getting them to vote republican and that was only 40%. Republicans have never had an edge among Latinos... and I expect it to get increasingly difficult for them. I think it's not just specific issues, but rather an overall ideological divide... this has been brewing since the time of Cesar Chavez really.

    Unless the republican party has a major realignment, I just don't see them getting anymore than 30% of Latino voters.
    Not hardly but the republicans do not need 60% Latin vote to win... just 35% ... look at the number there is definite room there for a republican moderate... Romney was supposed to be that moderate but he never moved to the center until it was way too late and Obama had defined Romney to the people.

    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    So if the Pubs weren't the Pubs a whole lot more people would vote for them?

    The fundie right will never give up abortion, gay marriage, or the brown horde all the little Bush's will have to oust them, capitulate or start a new party. That is IF they in fact disagree in the first place.
    The fundies no... the republican party is hardly made up of fundies just like the democrat party is not made up of socialists or communist BUT some of those folks vote for democrats.

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    I agree. A realignment doesn't seem to be in the works for the GOP... looking at what they have out there as far as candidates. Ted Cruz said something incredibly idiotic recently about the third debate... just goes to show business as usual.
    Ted Cruz did say ignorant shit about being much more conservative and I didnt say it was a foregone conclusion. Neither is the idea they wont be around. The party mainstays will go to the middle. It is evident in their demeanor on the public stage. They can read the writing on the wall and will change in my opinion. They could ride the tea party into irrelevance. Many options. I just don't see them going away.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
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  30. #30
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Barbara Bush On Obama's Reelection: 'People Spoke. Move On, Get On With It'

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    Not hardly but the republicans do not need 60% Latin vote to win... just 35% ... look at the number there is definite room there for a republican moderate... Romney was supposed to be that moderate but he never moved to the center until it was way too late and Obama had defined Romney to the people.
    They won't be getting 35%. And while that may have been the case in the past, as Latinos represent a growing percentage of the electorate, democrats will put increasing emphasis on winning them. There isn't much room for a republican moderate, and there won't be a realignment for republicans any time soon. They will continue their anti-immigrant ways.

    And I will reiterate... maybe 10 or 15 years ago they only needed 35%... but there are demographic changes, and even that won't be enough. Latinos pushed Obama to victory in several states it is said. So that 65% of Latinos democrats do win will have an increasing power in the elections and should not be underestimated.

    Ted Cruz did say ignorant shit about being much more conservative and I didnt say it was a foregone conclusion. Neither is the idea they wont be around. The party mainstays will go to the middle. It is evident in their demeanor on the public stage. They can read the writing on the wall and will change in my opinion. They could ride the tea party into irrelevance. Many options. I just don't see them going away.
    I don't expect that to happen. I expect their party to continue their trend to the right wing. While some may be wanting to go to the middle, I see most of the republican party reacting sharply to their loss in the election. They even said Mitt Romney wasn't conservative enough. Sure the writing is on the wall, but the republican party are wearing Kim Kardashian sized sunglasses.

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    Re: Barbara Bush On Obama's Reelection: 'People Spoke. Move On, Get On With It'

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    The fundies no... the republican party is hardly made up of fundies just like the democrat party is not made up of socialists or communist BUT some of those folks vote for democrats.
    I think you mistake the casual moderate calling himself republican who votes that way every four years with the actual republican who is active all the time - and yes the fundie base is in charge, it's not just a few crazies, and that causal guy is obviously not setting policy positions, asking for "pledges," or vetting candidates. If he was, the Pubs might have won a few more races.

    PLUS the Republican party DID NOT get up in arms about their platform, or the crazy shit their politicians were spouting - the only guy who got wrist slapped was Akin, and then they went right back to supporting him. Where was all this moderate Republican outrage over their radical religious right wing agenda? Nowhere, I think it's wishful thinking that somehow Republicans aren't "like that," I live with the fuckers and you know what, most of them ARE like that. The minority are the moderates because by now they've all been exiled.

    That whole "both parties are the same," is no longer even moderately true, the Pubs have indeed gone off the deep end.
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    Re: Barbara Bush On Obama's Reelection: 'People Spoke. Move On, Get On With It'

    The brown Bush MIGHT, be able to connect with Latino's, it remains to be seen, but from what I've heard, at least the Latinos I know don't think of him as one of them. They don't like Cruz either.

    But immigration reform and the Dreaded amnesty will sink the Bush national with his own party if his position on that is even remotely reasonable. Why, because the Pub primary machine is broken and the inmates are running that asylum.
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    Re: Barbara Bush On Obama's Reelection: 'People Spoke. Move On, Get On With It'

    The Republican Party is dominated by what I call the Teahadists, who are kakistocrats like Michelle Bachmann. By "dominated by," in this case, I don't mean that they're the majority; they're just driving the bus. Everyone else is afraid to piss them off, and with good reason: if they don't like you, you will lose your primary and the seat will go either to the Democrat or to someone absolutely insane.

    It's not a good time to be both sane and a Republican.
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    Re: Barbara Bush On Obama's Reelection: 'People Spoke. Move On, Get On With It'

    The Republicans' problem is that for the time being no candidate for president can get past the many states dominated (owned) by the elephangelicals. That means that any candidate is going to have to flip when he gets to the general election, which means that he's going to be feeding the Democratic candidate ammunition all along the way. So the campaign for president begins inevitably with the eventual Republican nominee shooting himself in the foot.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Barbara Bush On Obama's Reelection: 'People Spoke. Move On, Get On With It'

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    They won't be getting 35%. And while that may have been the case in the past, as Latinos represent a growing percentage of the electorate, democrats will put increasing emphasis on winning them. There isn't much room for a republican moderate, and there won't be a realignment for republicans any time soon. They will continue their anti-immigrant ways.

    And I will reiterate... maybe 10 or 15 years ago they only needed 35%... but there are demographic changes, and even that won't be enough. Latinos pushed Obama to victory in several states it is said. So that 65% of Latinos democrats do win will have an increasing power in the elections and should not be underestimated.



    I don't expect that to happen. I expect their party to continue their trend to the right wing. While some may be wanting to go to the middle, I see most of the republican party reacting sharply to their loss in the election. They even said Mitt Romney wasn't conservative enough. Sure the writing is on the wall, but the republican party are wearing Kim Kardashian sized sunglasses.
    GC Romney was ignorant and quite possibly the most anti immigrant candidate to run for office.... yet he garnered 27% of the Hispanic vote.... The Hispanic vote is only 9 % of America... I know it feels good to say it but it is way off base to think a moderate republican cant make up that 8% Romney didn't get among Hispanics and if women lean towards a republican by 3 to 4 % then you have that 3 million deficit instantly erased.

    But like I said earlier it is pointless to argue now... I will just say that in 2007 and 2008 I was spot on when I said whomever the democrat is they wont change a damn thing about our patriot act and national security changes that libs are crying about.... guess who turned out to be much more Moderate conservative than liberal in office? The point is dont let what you desire get in the way of reality.

    Sometimes reality is a bitch but ideology never trumps the even minded one.... just saying... the republicans can develop a candidate like that... look at Christie for just one example....
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
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    Re: Barbara Bush On Obama's Reelection: 'People Spoke. Move On, Get On With It'

    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    I think you mistake the casual moderate calling himself republican who votes that way every four years with the actual republican who is active all the time - and yes the fundie base is in charge, it's not just a few crazies, and that causal guy is obviously not setting policy positions, asking for "pledges," or vetting candidates. If he was, the Pubs might have won a few more races.

    PLUS the Republican party DID NOT get up in arms about their platform, or the crazy shit their politicians were spouting - the only guy who got wrist slapped was Akin, and then they went right back to supporting him. Where was all this moderate Republican outrage over their radical religious right wing agenda? Nowhere, I think it's wishful thinking that somehow Republicans aren't "like that," I live with the fuckers and you know what, most of them ARE like that. The minority are the moderates because by now they've all been exiled.

    That whole "both parties are the same," is no longer even moderately true, the Pubs have indeed gone off the deep end.
    That is in your neck of the woods which has always been filled with outrageous sounding asshats.... that isn't the entire country
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
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  37. #37

    Re: Barbara Bush On Obama's Reelection: 'People Spoke. Move On, Get On With It'

    Mama Bush is the one who caused all the problems. Her son had to show up Dad and "finish" the war in Iraq. Don't trust anything she says.

  38. #38
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Barbara Bush On Obama's Reelection: 'People Spoke. Move On, Get On With It'

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    GC Romney was ignorant and quite possibly the most anti immigrant candidate to run for office.... yet he garnered 27% of the Hispanic vote.... The Hispanic vote is only 9 % of America... I know it feels good to say it but it is way off base to think a moderate republican cant make up that 8% Romney didn't get among Hispanics and if women lean towards a republican by 3 to 4 % then you have that 3 million deficit instantly erased.
    In some states like Ohio and Colorado, Obama got 70-80% of the Latino vote. It's good to talk about "oh but he got 27%!!!" It's not really relevant. It's an incredibly weak answer in my eyes... it's like saynig "but the republicans got 20% of the LGBT vote". I don't mean to sound so criticial, but I actually find your argument quite offensive and completely far from the truth.

    And Latinos are an increasing part of the vote. 4 million more Latinos voted in this election than in 2008. It's wishful thinking a moderate republican would ever do that. The damage has already been done.

    http://www.slate.com/articles/busine..._crushing.html

    Oh and in some states Latinos are more than just 9% of the vote. In some states they are 14-20% of the percentage of voters, and this helped pushed Obama in states like Ohio, Nevada and Colorado.

    http://www.cnn.com/2012/11/09/politi...ion/index.html

    In 2008, Obama received 67% of the Latino vote. Latinos made up 9% of the electorate in 2008 with 19.5 million people eligible to vote. Today, there are nearly 24 million Hispanics eligible to vote.

    Hispanics were vital in helping the president win in two of the key battleground states, Nevada (70% to 25%) and Colorado (75% to 23%), and put Obama in the lead in Florida, where the vote still hasn't been decided, according to exit polls. In Nevada, the president won six electoral votes and nine in Colorado.
    To ignore or reject the notion that Latinos weren't important and "only 9% of the national vote" is a bad move. Also, democrats overall have a strong registration edge over republicans... so republicans need to start more efforts at the grassroots levels. Again I don't see them doing that. There won't be making up the deficit.

    I can point out to districts, to counties and to states where Latinos pushed those states to Obama's side. And it's incredibly insensitive to say "but they don't matter!".

    Even CNN described Latino voters as criticial in several swing toss-up states. It's nice that some will minimalize and say Latinos aren't that important, but they clearly were and it would be absolutely wrong to say they weren't relevant or important.

    Sometimes reality is a bitch but ideology never trumps the even minded one.... just saying... the republicans can develop a candidate like that... look at Christie for just one example....
    Republicans can't do it. Christie won't help them. They are too far gone and they need to realign the party. It just won't happen anytime soon when most of their core are social conservatives.
    Last edited by GiancarloC; November 17th, 2012 at 09:56 PM. Reason: quote tags

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    Re: Barbara Bush On Obama's Reelection: 'People Spoke. Move On, Get On With It'

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    That is in your neck of the woods which has always been filled with outrageous sounding asshats.... that isn't the entire country
    Are you kidding? Akin did not come from the Texas, nor did the "rape babies are a gift from God" guy, nor did Ryan, or Bachman, or Palin, or that wingnut in FL, Cantor, Grahm, or McCain who is the mildest of the Pubs from AZ, and that isn't even counting ALL the rest of them from the South and plains, and even from places like Utah and Idaho.
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    Re: Barbara Bush On Obama's Reelection: 'People Spoke. Move On, Get On With It'

    In Ohio Hispanics voted 53% for Obama not 70 to 80... again dont fool yourself and they were a crucial THREE percent of the Ohio vote. Feel free not to lecture me on my home state... lol

    However you are becoming the victim somehow with the "they don't matter" bullshit that I did not say... I said they do matter and republicans missed the bus but it is not gone forever. So really you all need to grow up and exp[ect that so it isnt such a bewildering surprise when it happens. An industry that just spent a billion dollars to gain power is not simply dying on the vine.

    You guys kill me... this was the same ignorant shit republicans were saying in the eighties...

    Some of the early prescriptions offered by officials and operatives to rebuild after devastating elections: retool the party message to appeal to Latinos, women and working-class people; upgrade antiquated get-out-the-vote systems with the latest technology. Teach candidates how to handle the new media landscape.
    The party "has to modernize in a whole wide range of ways," added former House Speaker Newt Gingrich, who ran against White House nominee Mitt Romney in the 2012 presidential primary. "We were clearly wrong on a whole range of fronts."
    To determine what went wrong, the Republican National Committee is examining every detail of the 2012 elections, with the goal of rebuilding the party for the future -- much as the Democratic Party did in the 1980s after suffering a series of stinging losses at all levels of government.
    Hmmm I wonder what that means.....

    "We need to make sure that we're not perceived as intolerant," said Ron Kaufman, a veteran GOP strategist who advised Romney. "The bottom line is we were perceived to be intolerant on some issues. And tone-deaf on others."
    Believe me if you are under some delusion that they will not retool their message to not have the party fouls that push away voters then you twp are as tone deaf as the current republican party....
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  41. #41
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Barbara Bush On Obama's Reelection: 'People Spoke. Move On, Get On With It'

    There is a problem here. I have figures that say something far different than 53%. No way Mitt Romney got 47%... And I am talking about some other states that just didn't appear in your argument... like Colorado, Nevada, New Mexico.

    http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/pol...linching-ohio/

    This Fox News article says Obama won Latinos in Ohio by an 82-17% margin. There is clearly something amiss here. For some reason I can't copy and paste from that article...

    But here are the figures I've cited some (Latino decision polls that specialize in polling Latinos): 87-10% Colorado, 77-21% New Mexico, 80-17% OHIO, 66%-31% Virginia, and 58%-40% Florida. Florida is only that way because Cuban-Americans tend to vote republican... but even in this race Cuban-Americans voted 50/50. Sorry but the republicans are losing even Cuban-American voters.

    Why the refusal to look at the other states?

    And I don't need to be lectured by a voting bloc I'm sure I know VERY WELL.

    I said they do matter and republicans missed the bus but it is not gone forever. So really you all need to grow up and exp[ect that so it isnt such a bewildering surprise when it happens. An industry that just spent a billion dollars to gain power is not simply dying on the vine.
    Oh considering how deep in the bullshit the republican party is I think it isn't a bus. I think they missed the high speed train by a few hours... and it's already long gone.

    I know there is an effort to salvage the republican party... but it's not worth it.

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    Re: Barbara Bush On Obama's Reelection: 'People Spoke. Move On, Get On With It'

    Quote Originally Posted by moschj View Post
    Mama Bush is the one who caused all the problems. Her son had to show up Dad and "finish" the war in Iraq. Don't trust anything she says.
    You think she told GW to go to war? Not even I think he's such a weenie as to believe that.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Barbara Bush On Obama's Reelection: 'People Spoke. Move On, Get On With It'

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    In some states like Ohio and Colorado, Obama got 70-80% of the Latino vote. It's good to talk about "oh but he got 27%!!!" It's not really relevant. It's an incredibly weak answer in my eyes... it's like saynig "but the republicans got 20% of the LGBT vote". I don't mean to sound so criticial, but I actually find your argument quite offensive and completely far from the truth.
    Um... the two statements are exactly parallel: The intent is to say that there's a small portion of both populations so screwed up they vote against their own interests. How is that offensive? and how is it far from the truth?

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Barbara Bush On Obama's Reelection: 'People Spoke. Move On, Get On With It'

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    Believe me if you are under some delusion that they will not retool their message to not have the party fouls that push away voters then you twp are as tone deaf as the current republican party....
    How long do you expect the 'evangelicals' to play along when the GOP decides to change the things it has to in order to be relevant? and how long do you expect the racist wing of the GOP to play along when the party starts to actually try to become inclusive?

    I don't see any way for them to retool without losing the fanatic core that supplies the ground troops.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Barbara Bush On Obama's Reelection: 'People Spoke. Move On, Get On With It'

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    How long do you expect the 'evangelicals' to play along when the GOP decides to change the things it has to in order to be relevant? and how long do you expect the racist wing of the GOP to play along when the party starts to actually try to become inclusive?

    I don't see any way for them to retool without losing the fanatic core that supplies the ground troops.
    Well i am done arguing with the guy who gets upset at me providing quote from WAPO ... who has argued how false fox news is but somehow now they are the reasoning for his argument... so I will continue the actual conversation with you...

    When did you think evangelicals would accept a Mormon to whom they were calling the religion a cult? As soon as those folks running the evangelical mindset agree then they will get in line. How many churches accepted gay marriage in 1950? How many accept it now? I am just saying change can and will occur.

    There is no way possible a side of the american public that stands at 48% of the voting public is simply going to go away because of two election cycles...
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  46. #46
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Barbara Bush On Obama's Reelection: 'People Spoke. Move On, Get On With It'

    Well that poll is from Latino Decision Polls which I don't believe is affiliated with Fox News, just for clarification.

    It's a poll affiliated with this site: http://www.latinodecisions.com/

    Specifically these two articles:

    What is more striking than the overall level of support is the sky-high levels of support the president received in the Western swing states. In Nevada close to eight out of every ten Latinos voted for the president. In Colorado 87 percent of Latinos did the same. Toward the end of the campaign New Mexico was not considered a swing state, but it is indeed a part of the Western Latino firewall, with 77 percent of the Latino vote going to Obama. And while Arizona was solidly in the Romney column, the rapidly growing Latino electorate overwhelmingly voted for the president, with 79 of the vote.
    Source: http://www.latinodecisions.com/blog/...latino-voters/

    Gary Segura recently provided a discussion of how exit polls often misrepresent Latino voters (Badly!), pointing out that exit polls often rely on small samples of Latino likely voters, rarely utilize fully bilingual interviews, and utilize samples that are not reflective of the Hispanic/Latino population in the location being polled. This is the first of a series of posts focused on whether the same problems plagued pre-election polls across states where Latino voters were critical to the election outcome. We start this discussion with a blog from Casey Klofstad, who has written several blogs for Latino Decisions focused on the state of Florida.
    Source: http://www.latinodecisions.com/blog/...ng-in-florida/

    The massive problem with EXIT polling is as Segura has described. A very small sample existed of Latino voters in exit polling while Latino Decisions got a much bigger sample in states like Ohio, Colorado and Florida. Hence the disparity. Exit polling is a really POOR representation of Latino voters because of the lack of bilingual interviews.

    You're right. I should have come up with a better site than Fox News.

    http://www.latinovotemap.org/map/ - This is an interesting site that does show the impact of Latino voters on the electorate. The percentage of the electorate was 12-13% Latino for the 2012 Election (and 9% for the 2008 election). In some states 15-20% of the electorate is Latino. Increase the percentage of the electorate that is Latino and Obama seems to have bigger leads in states. It's an interesting pre-election day map.

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    Re: Barbara Bush On Obama's Reelection: 'People Spoke. Move On, Get On With It'

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    Well i am done arguing with the guy who gets upset at me providing quote from WAPO ... who has argued how false fox news is but somehow now they are the reasoning for his argument... so I will continue the actual conversation with you...

    When did you think evangelicals would accept a Mormon to whom they were calling the religion a cult? As soon as those folks running the evangelical mindset agree then they will get in line. How many churches accepted gay marriage in 1950? How many accept it now? I am just saying change can and will occur.

    There is no way possible a side of the american public that stands at 48% of the voting public is simply going to go away because of two election cycles...
    They accepted the Mormon grudgingly because he agreed with them -- or purported to -- on the knee-jerk issues they're fanatic about. They're not going to budge away from those, despite the fact that they're driving away young people in droves because those young people see Jesus speaking of love and compassion but hearing a message of hate and law and vengeance from their preachers.

    I heard from Catholics who supported Romney for those very same reasons, claiming that politics is different than religon (but not seeing that that very position invalidated their very attempts to legislate religion).

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Barbara Bush On Obama's Reelection: 'People Spoke. Move On, Get On With It'

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    Well that poll is from Latino Decision Polls which I don't believe is affiliated with Fox News, just for clarification.

    It's a poll affiliated with this site: http://www.latinodecisions.com/

    Specifically these two articles:



    Source: http://www.latinodecisions.com/blog/...latino-voters/



    Source: http://www.latinodecisions.com/blog/...ng-in-florida/

    The massive problem with EXIT polling is as Segura has described. A very small sample existed of Latino voters in exit polling while Latino Decisions got a much bigger sample in states like Ohio, Colorado and Florida. Hence the disparity. Exit polling is a really POOR representation of Latino voters because of the lack of bilingual interviews.

    You're right. I should have come up with a better site than Fox News.

    http://www.latinovotemap.org/map/ - This is an interesting site that does show the impact of Latino voters on the electorate. The percentage of the electorate was 12-13% Latino for the 2012 Election (and 9% for the 2008 election). In some states 15-20% of the electorate is Latino. Increase the percentage of the electorate that is Latino and Obama seems to have bigger leads in states. It's an interesting pre-election day map.
    The lack of bilingual interviewers shoots the exit polling down hard. I know Latino/Hispanic citizens who struggle with English daily, often relying on grandkids who are bilingual to get by. They vote -- and they'd spare little time for someone who couldn't actually converse with them.

    There, BTW, is one reason that IMO cripples the Republicans: most all I know, and I see no reason not to presume the pattern to be national, are John Birchers in their regard to language, believing and communicating that those who arenb't fluent in English aren't really Americans (we have examples here on JUB).

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  49. #49
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Barbara Bush On Obama's Reelection: 'People Spoke. Move On, Get On With It'

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    They accepted the Mormon grudgingly because he agreed with them -- or purported to -- on the knee-jerk issues they're fanatic about. They're not going to budge away from those, despite the fact that they're driving away young people in droves because those young people see Jesus speaking of love and compassion but hearing a message of hate and law and vengeance from their preachers.

    I heard from Catholics who supported Romney for those very same reasons, claiming that politics is different than religon (but not seeing that that very position invalidated their very attempts to legislate religion).
    On point one they are going to change their message and the Christian vote would much rather make concessions to have some relevance rather than have no voice at all (as perceived by them). On point two the Catholic vote went overwhelmingly for the Democratic ticket because of the budget talks and the ticket talking about cutting social programs which is part of the good the Catholic folks see in the government.

    I see the message changing and the topic of the 2016 election will not be what do we cut. it will be reforming healthcare and strengthening a struggling economy....
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  50. #50
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Barbara Bush On Obama's Reelection: 'People Spoke. Move On, Get On With It'

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    Well that poll is from Latino Decision Polls which I don't believe is affiliated with Fox News, just for clarification.

    It's a poll affiliated with this site: http://www.latinodecisions.com/

    Specifically these two articles:



    Source: http://www.latinodecisions.com/blog/...latino-voters/



    Source: http://www.latinodecisions.com/blog/...ng-in-florida/

    The massive problem with EXIT polling is as Segura has described. A very small sample existed of Latino voters in exit polling while Latino Decisions got a much bigger sample in states like Ohio, Colorado and Florida. Hence the disparity. Exit polling is a really POOR representation of Latino voters because of the lack of bilingual interviews.

    You're right. I should have come up with a better site than Fox News.

    http://www.latinovotemap.org/map/ - This is an interesting site that does show the impact of Latino voters on the electorate. The percentage of the electorate was 12-13% Latino for the 2012 Election (and 9% for the 2008 election). In some states 15-20% of the electorate is Latino. Increase the percentage of the electorate that is Latino and Obama seems to have bigger leads in states. It's an interesting pre-election day map.
    That is an interesting point. The Census indicated a large percentage of the Latino increase was due to identification of the respondents. I wonder if more bi-lingual census workers were employed thereby increasing the results.

    Even in places like Texas where Cruz was elected he only gained about 6% more of the Hispanic vote compared to Romney in the same areas of the state. Yet that was more like 60/40 versus 80/20 in states that were going blue anyhow.

    The Hispanic population is way too diverse to be a single issue (Immigration) voter and as the tone changes and as immigration reform is accomplished it will become who has the best message once again. Not that one party is diametrically opposed to all various constituencies agree with on policy issues.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


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