Unions Kill Hostess

[palemale]

Here is the union's perspective:

Our members decided they were not going to take any more abuse from a company they have given so much to for so many years," Hurt said in a statement late Friday. "They decided that they were not going to agree to another round of outrageous wage and benefit cuts and give up their pension only to see yet another management team fail and Wall Street vulture capitalists and 'restructuring specialists' walk away with untold millions of dollars.

http://money.cnn.com/2012/11/16/news...ing/index.html

There had been a previous bankruptcy in which the union gave major concessions apparently, only to see the company be run poorly by vulture capitalists and hedge funds. The workers probably just got tired of giving concessions that went directly into the pockets of Wall Street parasites instead of making the business a going concern.

[GiancarloC]

It's important to get the full perspective instead of engaging int he usual union bashing... thanks, palemale, for that article.

[evanrick]

if unions and management are equally bad at being greedy, what does that say about your argument that you blame the unions when it defies logic that someone would vote themselves out of a job by refusing a new contract?

i see the picture very clearly, as did the millions of people that voted against republicans and their constant blame shifting as to why jobs are not being created, because of unions?

its a hostage situation and your side is upset that you cant barter with peoples lives anymore by threatening with economic terror, fiscal cliffs, and all those threats of doom if "things don't go your way". well they didn't so get over it.

polls have already foreclosed on republican positions on these issues, your just digging yourself deeper.

the more you try to avoid the failures of the republican ideology with excuse after excuse the bigger the blowback will be.

[palemale]

This is what the Wall Street Journal on-line had to say:

The company's burdensome debt traces back to Hostess's first trip through bankruptcy in 2004. Missteps by a private-equity firm, hedge funds and managers since burdened the company, despite its more than $2 billion in annual sales.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...560842670.html

Sounds to me like the workers got tired of being sucked dry by vulture capitalists.

[Jack Springer]

Here is the union's perspective:



http://money.cnn.com/2012/11/16/news...ing/index.html

There had been a previous bankruptcy in which the union gave major concessions apparently, only to see the company be run poorly by vulture capitalists and hedge funds. The workers probably just got tired of giving concessions that went directly into the pockets of Wall Street parasites instead of making the business a going concern.

Eventually the same thing will happen to GM. The union parasites will devour the new company ... it's only a matter of time.

[evanrick]

Eventually the same thing will happen to GM. The union parasites will devour the new company ... it's only a matter of time.

dont know buddy it seems the hedge funders have already gobbled up the middle class. sorry.

[loki81]

This is what the Wall Street Journal on-line had to say:



http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...560842670.html

Sounds to me like the workers got tired of being sucked dry by vulture capitalists.

I hope their righteous indignation is keeping their families fed.

Hostess was fucked either way, in the long term... had the Baker's Union agreed to the concessions though (like the Teamster's Union did), they may have had a few extra months to look for a new job while collecting their salary.

the Teamsters were urging the Bakers to put the contract agreement up for an anonymous vote... without public peer pressure, my guess is that it would have passed.

[White Eagle]

I'm saying both are bad. Leadership starts at the top. No? That's what you always say anyway. If executives had given themselves 50% pay cuts instead of mega percent increases it would set a good faith example and provided incentive for cooperation and compromise. I'll bet they could have renegotiated union contracts and stayed in business. But no. The 1% gives themselves big salary increases and expects nothing but sacrifice and capitulation from the 99%. I don't for a second believe this whole thing wasn't planned to turn out this way and the 1% of the company will end up richer than ever while the 99% are unemployed. These are Mitt Romney - Bain Capital tactics and one of the main reasons why he lost.

I agree totally

[White Eagle]

I still haven't seen what the unions salaries were or what they were asking for. The management just fucked up. and thanks, palemale, for that article.

[BostonPirate]

Labor has the ability to shut down a business when the business is not engaging in fair practices and fair labor.

labor is one element of a Capitalist economy that requires a union, just to easily deal with fair pay and industry salary standards with input from all parties. Many MANY union negotiations occur that are quite mutually enjoyable and equitable for all sides involved.

labor DOES have the power to strike, and affect the business they have issues with. How can I say this clearly...

If companies are not occasionally shut down by unhappy employees, then employers of the nation's labor force will not respect their human resources. There has to be a real threat with real consequences if Corporate vultures are put before the needs of the laborers.

The economy needs less underemployed people, we all hear from the GOP, but when an org stands up to make sure that people are not being underpaid or underemployed, the union is castigated.

Foolish.

[chance1]

I hope their righteous indignation is keeping their families fed.

Hostess was fucked either way, in the long term... had the Baker's Union agreed to the concessions though (like the Teamster's Union did), they may have had a few extra months to look for a new job while collecting their salary.

the Teamsters were urging the Bakers to put the contract agreement up for an anonymous vote... without public peer pressure, my guess is that it would have passed.

your point is duly noted and said many x before

yet the talking points memo continues to be flat out union = good

couple more mos. of pay = good if you ask me

unions working against their own good and the good of their brothers is not a good thing

it just doesn't make sense on any level

[maxpowr9]

After reading more into this, this situation was a complete wash and I don't think it was possible for the company to float. I won't say all hedge fund managers or venture capitalists are evil but when there isn't an open dialogue between management and their employees, the company is almost guaranteed to head to financial ruin.

[BostonPirate]

After reading more into this, this situation was a complete wash and I don't think it was possible for the company to float. I won't say all hedge fund managers or venture capitalists are evil but when there isn't an open dialogue between management and their employees, the company is almost guaranteed to head to financial ruin.

Absolutely, and it shouldn't be any other way.

And lets face it, they will sell the rights to someone for making twinkies, as the company is dissolved, so there will be a twinkie reboot by a company that is more solvent.

[chance1]

ever have one of these ? OMG so good

[Ninja108]

the company was doomed regardless..but this is a nifty way to show the evils of unions instead of unequal pay and greedy CEOS.

[BostonPirate]

the company was doomed regardless..but this is a nifty way to show the evils of unions instead of unequal pay and greedy CEOS.

That's all the GOP has left.

Propaganda and spin.

[GiancarloC]

Absolutely, and it shouldn't be any other way.

And lets face it, they will sell the rights to someone for making twinkies, as the company is dissolved, so there will be a twinkie reboot by a company that is more solvent.

This whole situation kinda reminds me of Circuit City. Now that company went into bankruptcy a few times, was very poorly operated and had a huge workforce.

[Seasoned]

Let's make one thing perfectly clear. Unions did NOT kill Hostess - management did.

You don't run a company by cutting and cutting the salaries of your employees, demanding that they compensate for your incompetence by sacrificing themselves, even as you increase your own salary.

Hostess is being liquidated because it is more valuable to the incompetent owners in liquidation than it is as an operating company. That is, as some have pointed out, the Bain Capital method of "capitalism." The workers are being vilified because they refused to enslave themselves so that bad managers might get even richer.

Hostess's workers are not some evil force victimizing the poor, noble, angelic owners who only want to give them jobs. They are fed up with being exploited and being lied to. They want to be treated fairly.

But, somehow, Hostess's management thinks it is the workers' fault that it is unable to pay them their salaries.

Amen and thank you! This is about a company not willing or able to do the necessary research and development to remain viable. Corporations aren't people but they do have life cycles that will end unless steps are taken to reinvent themselves. This wasn't about union concessions. The answer to production is products that are wanted.

[JayHawk]

Meanwhile in other news 18,000 ex-union workers applied at Walmart where there are no unions.......

It may have been an absolute shit business - no doubt. However I bet if anyone were to have the ability to ask the 18000 if they would rather receive a 8% less paycheck then they would agree wholeheartedly. Ask them in about a couple months and everyone of them will agree.

[BostonPirate]

That all depends on whether or not they pass the unemployment package in congress.

[JayHawk]

Oh I have no doubt they will pass the unemployment benefits... republicans are looking to weak to block anything... however I have also had the pleasure of talking with the unemployed and NONE of them would prefer that check over work.... some even say they would work for less than what the check provides.....

Unemployment is debilitating.

[BostonPirate]

Oh I have no doubt they will pass the unemployment benefits... republicans are looking to weak to block anything... however I have also had the pleasure of talking with the unemployed and NONE of them would prefer that check over work.... some even say they would work for less than what the check provides.....

Unemployment is debilitating.

Lets see who buys the factory in the liquidation process. I have a feeling, something new will start there. In the meantime, the laborers will have to live with the stand they took on the principle of the issue.

[Críostóir]

If the unions really killed Twinkies and Wonder Bread, good on them.

I don't think that's what happened. Typical capitalist spin.

Less seriously, how am I going to explain the origin of the word 'twink(ie)' (young gay man) when no one knows what a Twinkies™ is anymore?!?!? A sad day for the etymology freaks...but a small price to pay.

[Kulindahr]

Rather than blaming the unions, you should look into the bad mismanagement of the company that coupled with declining sales that forced this stalemate in negotiations. The company expected its workers to take more paycuts to cover their bonuses and bad management. Then the finances collapsed and everyone went down with the ship. It's sad that thousands of these workers are going to be unemployed, but to blame the workers themselves is disingenuous.

The company is going to make big out of this financial collapse. They now get to sell their trademarks, recipes, patents, machinery and infrastructure to the "highest bidders." They're going to make millions off of a dying product line, and the workers you're blaming are going to be unemployed.

I'm not certain I'm blaming the workers -- it's more the leaders they chose.

[BostonPirate]

[Kulindahr]

the Teamsters were urging the Bakers to put the contract agreement up for an anonymous vote... without public peer pressure, my guess is that it would have passed.

Which is why the Teamsters had some caustic comments about the Bakers' union.

Perhaps the two unions should have stood together about the wages -- and demanded that executive compensation be reduced to no more than ten times the median worker pay.

[Kulindahr]

Labor has the ability to shut down a business when the business is not engaging in fair practices and fair labor.

labor is one element of a Capitalist economy that requires a union, just to easily deal with fair pay and industry salary standards with input from all parties. Many MANY union negotiations occur that are quite mutually enjoyable and equitable for all sides involved.

labor DOES have the power to strike, and affect the business they have issues with. How can I say this clearly...

If companies are not occasionally shut down by unhappy employees, then employers of the nation's labor force will not respect their human resources. There has to be a real threat with real consequences if Corporate vultures are put before the needs of the laborers.

The economy needs less underemployed people, we all hear from the GOP, but when an org stands up to make sure that people are not being underpaid or underemployed, the union is castigated.

Foolish.

So killing Hostess may have been a good thing. But did it serve the purpose you outline?

[Kulindahr]

ever have one of these ? OMG so good

Sinfully decadent.

<yum>

[JayHawk]

I think BP has a crush........

[Kulindahr]

Oh I have no doubt they will pass the unemployment benefits... republicans are looking to weak to block anything... however I have also had the pleasure of talking with the unemployed and NONE of them would prefer that check over work.... some even say they would work for less than what the check provides.....

Unemployment is debilitating.

I've known just one who did. He hated his job, but it left him so dead tired he didn't have the energy to really look for a new one. After just a couple of months on unemployment, allowing him to spend six hours a day looking for new work, he found what to him is such a dream job that he goes home happy every day and gets up excited to go to work.

[Kulindahr]

If the unions really killed Twinkies and Wonder Bread, good on them.

I don't think that's what happened. Typical capitalist spin.

Less seriously, how am I going to explain the origin of the word 'twink(ie)' (young gay man) when no one knows what a Twinkies™ is anymore?!?!? A sad day for the etymology freaks...but a small price to pay.

It appears that management and vulture capitalists had pretty well beaten the company into crippled state, but the unions pulled the trigger at the end.

[Críostóir]

It appears that management and vulture capitalists had pretty well beaten the company into crippled state, but the unions pulled the trigger at the end.

It was a mercy killing. [The company] had a certain...naïve charm, but no MUSCLE.

filler filler filler

[BostonPirate]

I think BP has a crush........

HA

I do look forward to seeing him run against Hillary Clinton.

Just to be bipartisan, lets give a hippie liberal twinkie loving moment here....

[chance1]

such silliness .......

The larger union, The Teamsters, the one with 3x the #s of employees as the Bakers, were all good here

LOL

Spin away mates

But the bigger more influential union was willing to take less to save the company/their jobs

the dopey bakers not so much

it's a laugh riot is what it is

the progressives here talking about this AS IF the facts were on their side and no real jobs were lost

such a silly bunch

[GiancarloC]

Spin away? who is doing the spin? The entire company was run worse than Circuit City. The management was a shambolic shit show. I wonder who is gonna come in and liquidate all the assets... where is Mitt Romney? He does well selling off American companies... maybe a CHINESE Company would do well selling twinkies. Americans can get their twinkies while some guy works for a dollar an hour making them.

The right wingers on here talk and talk and talk... without any facts backing themselves up. Of course real jobs were lost... but who is to blame? Certainly a great deal of the blame falls on the management which failed to innovate the company.

Any more stereotypical ignorant labels?

[JayHawk]

ha

i do look forward to seeing him run against hillary clinton.

Just to be bipartisan, lets give a hippie liberal twinkie loving moment here....

hoe lee fuck

I have more of Tallhassee's view of Twinkies...

[loki81]

the whole raise thing is weirdly complicated.

the old CEO gave the top execs raises:

Creditors Say Hostess Pay Is Questionable

then he quit/got fired and the new CEO reduced salaries to $1/year:

Hostess Rolls Back Some Executive Pay Raises

I don't believe the current CEO (and the one who was overseeing these union negotiations) had anything to do with those raises, and the $1/year salary cut went into place a month after he took over Hostess.

Rayburn, the current CEO, originally came into the picture to oversee the debt restructuring, but he fired Driscoll -- the CEO who gave the execs raises -- about a month after coming on board.

edit: of course, Rayburn didn't start working there until March 2012, at which point the situation was probably already on life support from decades of mismanagement.

edit 2: fixed links to get around the WSJ pay wall

[JayHawk]

Wow so the execs in the company were working for 1 dollar a year??? Must have had some other benefits that paid well....

However that is quite an overture to please take a cut so we can keep our doors open....

[Harke the Boeotarch]

Wow so the execs in the company were working for 1 dollar a year??? Must have had some other benefits that paid well....

However that is quite an overture to please take a cut so we can keep our doors open....

It probably means that the company was going belly up no matter what the workers would have done.

[JayHawk]

Meh... they were already in bankruptcy....

Still if they had been honest with the grave situation.... I for one would rather have a job getting eight percent less money while I look for another rather than wait thirty days then start getting unemployment at a fraction of the pay I was receiving....

[GiancarloC]

Well if people still want their twinkies I'm sure they'll be made by Nabisco or some other company.

[TX-Beau]

All that $1 stuff seems to have happened when the lifeboats were already being launched. The workers didn't kill this company, bad management did.

No way around that, profitable, well run companies don't have to ask workers to take pay cuts or punish bad mangers.

Don't like it capitalists? This is capitalism in action.

The company went under, because the management sucked ass.


Sorry all you processed pastry fans - I never could stand the things, or the ding-dongs, and those chocodiles look pretty nasty too.

Ugh, soggy preservative ridden, melt your teeth sugar saturated cake, stuffed with plastic, yet more sugar saturated "cream," I never did get that, even as a kid. If it was just the cake, maybe, but that "cream" stuff is just really vile.

[JayHawk]

I always loved sucking the cream out of sweet juicy things.... but I digress...

[Críostóir]

Well if people still want their twinkies I'm sure they'll be made by Nabisco or some other company.

Gods forbid. That would kill the only upside of this whole disaster...which probably means you're right.

I always loved sucking the cream out of sweet juicy things.... but I digress...

You do know that some people call very young gay men "twinkies," right? And you know where that comes from?

[CTF]

An iconic company we all know and some love is shutting down, permanently, this being its final bankruptcy of three in eight years. The final straw? Unions that refused to compromise, even though the company warned them it was teetering on the edge of no return.



There are unions, and there are unions -- and plainly this one was too greedy, and now suffers the logical consequences of grasping at too much: instead of continuing working, albeit at lower wages, they are out of jobs, income reduced to zero.

And in all likelihood, their stubborness will cost the taxpayers as pensions will have to be covered.


read more: http://www.chicagotribune.com/busine...,3175964.story

I've been accused of not reading "what's being posted around me."

Like I should follow the pack, or whatever "narrative" that's being "laid down."

When I was trying to get out of management with Walmart, and move back to Dallas to be closer to my Family, Hostess seemed like a good fit for me.

But I didn't get the job.

And I'm thankful now for unanswered prayers that I didn't.

Hostess Brands didn't have a problem with "labor" they had a problem with "management" and "innovation."



So I'll just cut to the "cheap shots."

Who in their right mind, in today's 'American Nanny State' would create a "cake" filled with hydrogenated fats, and God knows what else?

Where the biggest innovation was taking Ding Dongs out of their aluminum encased "wrapper" and placing them (individually) into a plastic encased wrapper, while still marketing them in the same BOX?

But those greedy ass motherfuckers who drove those big box trucks up to every Mom and Pop Supermarket, Convenience Store, and National Box Chain are to blame!

That clearly lets the management of Hostess Brands off the hook, while they sail away on their "golden parachutes."

I didn't bother to read every post since you created this thread, and I'm a little surprised that you'd side with management on this one.

But my posts suck, and I'm apparently not paying attention as a "moderator."

Present company excluded.

Pfffffft!

[MystikWizard]

As with any complicated issue, there are two sides to every story. It appeared as though that mismanagement was the true cause of the downfall of Hostess ... and management wanted the workers to sacrifice even more and live on un-liveable wages as a result of their mis-management of the company.

I sympathize with the workers, though. It is what it is.

[GiancarloC]

That's exactly it, centex. People need to not jump to conclusions and blame labor unions. It seems to be a common theme in the US... to blame labor unions for their unrealistic demands. It was the management that took out a series of bad loans they couldn't pay back. Even if sales were down only 2%, the management saddled the company with debt. So much for blaming those pesky unions... again, that clearly shows management is almost entirely at fault for the downfall of the company.

[loki81]

the management is definitely responsible for the ultimate downfall.

but I'd say the Baker's Union is probably why these guys won't have another few months worth of steady income while looking for a new job and won't see a buyout option that could involve keeping the existing factories running.

my guess is that these guys stay unemployed and the brand name, recipes, and trademarks are sold to a company with production lines in Mexico.

[CTF]

As with any complicated issue, there are two sides to every story. It appeared as though that mismanagement was the true cause of the downfall of Hostess ... and management wanted the workers to sacrifice even more and live on un-liveable wages as a result of their mis-management of the company.

I sympathize with the workers, though. It is what it is.

And to me that's what truly sucks about the so called "class warfare" ..."47% mentality" of our country.

I'm IN "management" but I'm a "middle manager."

I have employees that are making just above "minimum wage," and because I work with them everyday, get to know them personally, trust them, and count on them to do what I pay them to do, they're looking over my shoulder at my "management."

Sometimes I fell like the "shop foreman."

I'm going to get f u c kayed either way.

Those above me, who've worked their way up through the ranks seem to have forgotten what it's like to "be on the front lines."

Those beneath me on the "corporate ladder" only seem to be thinking about what they have to do keep their utilities paid, and food on the table.

So I agree, it's not as black and white, as some would paint it.

We're talking about REAL people here. Some are going to get off better than others, but either way another American Company has just bit the dust, and the only one's who are going to profit from this are the hedge fund managers, the lawyers, the Bain Capital types, real estate agents on their commission for helping to liquidate the physical assets, and it's done.

And here in Dallas, within a week or two, those people (with years of experience, and seniority with Hostess Brands; the same people who were my vendors just a few days ago) will be approaching me for a job paying just above minimum wage.

HOO RAH!

But it's all "organized labor's" fault.

Look what that got them.

[JayHawk]

You do know that some people call very young gay men "twinkies," right? And you know where that comes from?

Quite well aware... i have been enjoying the healthy version of a twinkie every since I started having sex.... so that is 25 years of cream filled wonderful.... and lowfat cream at that....