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Thread: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

      
   
  1. #101
    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    Interestingly enough, the "gayest" people I know are always the best drinkers... Go figure. But your description still matches better with straight men I know. Or is being the center of attention only an issue if it's not "masc" enough?
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  2. #102
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    Honeslty I have no idea... and quite more honestly it doesn't matter... i will keep getting laid and not experiencing drama and how the people I meet describe themselves is up to me and them... kind of pointless conjecture at this point... but thanks for playing
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  3. #103
    mitchymo
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    I have pointed out before, and it's worth repeating, that a 5'6 slim fem boy who can take ten dicks in one night is much more of a MAN than a pretentious gym queen who bro-hugs and burps but is too chicken to be thought of as "gay"...
    No, not more of a man, more of a whore. Manliness is not attributed to the ability to gang-bang.
    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    your choice, what you call yourself is pretty incidental to me personally, but whatever you decide to to, you cannot get away from the fact that "straight acting," far from "broadening," the term "gay," as you seem to be telling yourself, is something we gay men made up, in order to distance ourselves from ourselves.
    The bolded part:- that is NOT what i am telling myself. Its not broadening the term gay, its broadening the perspective of other people. Furthermore, it wasn't made up in order to distance ourselves from ourselves. It was a natural development, bound to occur, because the stereotype took root, a sterotype that doesn't define ourselves as a collective in the way the term 'gay' does.

    My issue with the term queer, is that it is being used to represent EVERYONE who is not heteronormative. I don't see that as anything but polarising, since in what circumstance would everyone but gender-secure heterosexuals with unadventurous sex lives be a focus of ANYTHING that pertains just to them, but not the heteronormative group i just mentioned.
    The term queer is for those who are counter culture, nothing more. Its the new hippy.

  4. #104
    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    Honeslty I have no idea... and quite more honestly it doesn't matter... i will keep getting laid and not experiencing drama and how the people I meet describe themselves is up to me and them... kind of pointless conjecture at this point... but thanks for playing

    Strange - it seemed to matter a lot one page ago. Are we out of personal insults or something? I'm sorry, I can give you time to recharge
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  5. #105
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    Google "Fucking Queer" and you can find hundreds if not thousands of results where it is used as an insult...
    How about googling "disgusting gays".

    This is the problem here. Some jubbers just refuse to look at context.

  6. #106
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Strange - it seemed to matter a lot one page ago. Are we out of personal insults or something? I'm sorry, I can give you time to recharge
    I dunno perhaps you are running out of insults... but I am done talking to you about it... you have nothing to offer but to insult and repeat your insults... it is rather tiring now go find another board stiff guy to date and I will go find another str8 acting drama queen ...mmmmk?
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  7. #107
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    Quote Originally Posted by mitchymo View Post
    And whilst we are talking about reinforcing stereotypes, I'M not the one kicking others down for using a term to describe a different stereotype. Str8-acting broadens the image of gay guys by expressing an obvious truth, that the traditional stereotype is not correct generally. If there wasn't a stereotype, there wouldn't exist the term str8-acting.
    This is nice, but your statements on this matter are reinforcing stereotypes and straight acting isn't broadened anything. It's trying to live to the standards of heterosexual men.

  8. #108
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    How about googling "disgusting gays".

    This is the problem here. Some jubbers just refuse to look at context.
    I can see enough of that kind of thing on Jub why forever more would I google you folks?
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  9. #109
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    I can see enough of that kind of thing on Jub why forever more would I google you folks?
    Wow, Rolyo is right... have any more angry insults? They just never seem to end.

  10. #110
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    How about googling "disgusting gays".

    This is the problem here. Some jubbers just refuse to look at context.
    You post this statement above that is intended to insult multiple jubbers and quote me while you are doing it and then claim I am being insulting... take your own post comment and look in your own fucking mirror... try wondering over to making an ass of yourself thread and posting about a third of your jub content....
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  11. #111
    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    Quote Originally Posted by mitchymo View Post
    No, not more of a man, more of a whore. Manliness is not attributed to the ability to gang-bang.
    Ah yes, I forgot, sex should only be had with one person, ever, preferably with clothes. Anyway, yes it is more of a man.More of a strong person being able to accept himself, take risks and explore himself (not to mention tolerance to pain ).


    Quote Originally Posted by mitchymo View Post
    (1)The bolded part:- that is NOT what i am telling myself. Its not broadening the term gay, its broadening the perspective of other people. Furthermore, it wasn't made up in order to distance ourselves from ourselves. It was a natural development, bound to occur, because the stereotype took root, a sterotype that doesn't define ourselves as a collective in the way the term 'gay' does.

    (2)My issue with the term queer, is that it is being used to represent EVERYONE who is not heteronormative. I don't see that as anything but polarising, since in what circumstance would everyone but gender-secure heterosexuals with unadventurous sex lives be a focus of ANYTHING that pertains just to them, but not the heteronormative group i just mentioned.
    The term queer is for those who are counter culture, nothing more. Its the new hippy.
    1. On the contrary - it broadens nothing in people's minds. It just tells straights we're "harmless", and they don't have to bash us so much. In its core, it's not bravery and broadening of horizons, it's cowardice and conformity. Not conscious of course, I'm not calling you a coward. But what you are saying sounds more like excuses than arguments, ESPECIALLY in the context in which most of us encounter the term (remember the headless torsos). By the way, I am exactly in your shoes - people don't think I'm gay until they find out from something I say. But I would still never call myself "straight-acting". I only say that I don't fit their idea of gay stereotypes. I'm still gayer than a unicorn riding a rainbow.

    2. Yes, it's the new hippy. It's also more than a little pretentious and most kids get over it. What it ISN'T, is derogatory and offensive, at least to the bigger part of the population nowadays. There are offensive words which just go out of fashion and get forgotten. I don't think there is any young bigot out there who will call you "queer" before he calls you a "fag".
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  12. #112
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    You post this statement above that is intended to insult multiple jubbers and quote me while you are doing it and then claim I am being insulting... take your own post comment and look in your own fucking mirror... try wondering over to making an ass of yourself thread and posting about a third of your jub content....
    No. It's NOT insulting anyone. I didn't even name anyone in particular. People need to look at the CONTEXT of the word "Queer". Gay and queer can both be used in an insulting context, but with the article I posted (from 1991) shows how it was NOT used in an insulting context. I didn't insult ANYONE AT ALL. So cry me a river. A third of my jub content? Excuse me? I'm not a fool... and will not be TALKED DOWN TO LIKE THAT, PERIOD.

  13. #113
    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    Yeah, it was a perfect example of how putting the word "fucking" can give you insulting results for any word. I bet you anything that if you put in "fucking homosexuals", you'll get MORE offensive results than from "fucking queers"...
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  14. #114
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    No. It's NOT insulting anyone. I didn't even name anyone in particular. People need to look at the CONTEXT of the word "Queer". Gay and queer can both be used in an insulting context, but with the article I posted (from 1991) shows how it was NOT used in an insulting context. I didn't insult ANYONE AT ALL. So cry me a river. A third of my jub content? Excuse me? I'm not a fool... and will not be TALKED DOWN TO LIKE THAT, PERIOD.
    So saying that the people on JUB are disgusting gays and then telling me to look in the mirror in private comment is not insulting? here lets look again at your insinuation:

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    How about googling "disgusting gays".

    This is the problem here. Some jubbers just refuse to look at context.
    What would googling disgusting gays get and how is that in context with the discussion about the use of queer versus straight acting?
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  15. #115
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    So saying that the people on JUB are disgusting gays and then telling me to look in the mirror in private comment is not insulting? here lets look again at your insinuation:
    Again here is the problem... have anymore insults? Your suggestion was that people here are disgusting.

    The comment I made was that both gay and queer can be used as an insult depending on their context.

  16. #116
    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    Don't play dumb. You aren't, and it's embarrassing. He didn't call people here "disgusting gays". He gave an example of how a supposedly neutral word (gay) will give you offensive examples if you put an offensive word next to it. Now feel free to apologize and proceed with slightly less unwarranted insults please.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  17. #117
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Don't play dumb. You aren't, and it's embarrassing. He didn't call people here "disgusting gays". He gave an example of how a supposedly neutral word (gay) will give you offensive examples if you put an offensive word next to it. Now feel free to apologize and proceed with slightly less unwarranted insults please.
    Exactly! He said google "fucking queers" and I said google "disgusting gays". The CONTEXT matters. He won't admit he's wrong here. That's the issue.

  18. #118
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    So why exactly would you use derogatory terminology and then say "Jubbers around here refuse to look at... then make a post comment that I should look in the mirror after making such a derogatory statement... I am not buying your bullshit... you intended insult and thats what you did...

    - - - Updated - - -

    No i clearly point out that quoting me and then post commenting to ensure I get your intent....
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  19. #119
    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    Classic misdirection. Will you at least combine being faux outraged/offended with the admission that adding "fucking", "disgusting" or whatever skews the results you will get?

    Also, I was the one who said people look out of context way before Giancarlo said it too. They do - the context of hook up sites with headless torsos being "straight acting", but too chicken to show their face. THAT'S the context of the masculinity syndrome of the term "straithg-acting". Reading comprehension is even more your friend than google (who kind of abandoned you anyway).
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  20. #120
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    JH, What bullshit? Excuse me? Where the fuck did I call anyone on this forum "disgusting"? In fact, who said this comment:

    I can see enough of that kind of thing on Jub why forever more would I google you folks?
    It wasn't me. Your statement called people on here disgusting. End of story.

    What is my intent? I stated it. It depends on CONTEXT of what the word is used in.

    I wasn't directing a derogatory statement to ANYONE. Reading fucking comprehension.

  21. #121
    mitchymo
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    It's trying to live to the standards of heterosexual men.
    No it aint. Discussion over.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Ah yes, I forgot, sex should only be had with one person, ever, preferably with clothes.
    You're straw is falling out! Exagerating a statement, to sarcastically mock it, seriously Rolyo?




    1. On the contrary - it broadens nothing in people's minds. It just tells straights we're "harmless", and they don't have to bash us so much. In its core, it's not bravery and broadening of horizons, it's cowardice and conformity. Not conscious of course, I'm not calling you a coward. But what you are saying sounds more like excuses than arguments
    You're qualified to know what it tells straights? If this is what you think it tells straights, one can only assume that they were positively terrified of gay men BEFORE realising that not all gay men are camp. Their bigotry is not based on being scared, its based mostly on ignorance.

  22. #122
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    Quote Originally Posted by mitchymo View Post
    No it aint. Discussion over.
    And how so? The discussion isn't over.

    Living to some heterosexual or heteronormative standard is implied in "straight acting".

  23. #123
    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    I'd rather exaggerate a statement than judge people based on how much sex they have.

    And I am qualified to observe that only closeted "bi" guys on trashy hook up sites use the term. Therefore that's what I associate it with. I repeat that I have NEVER heard an out and proud gay guy say it in front of people to describe himself. Have you?
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  24. #124
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    Anyone got anything related to the topic? I know a couple of repubs who are taking the election in stride--one admitted that he never thought Romney would win. Of course, I asked him why? He said "Because he's an idiot". Okay then, but you still voted for him...

  25. #125
    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    The topic is exhausted. We moved on.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  26. #126
    Evolving...give it a try. Críostóir's Avatar
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    Yeah, this really has deteriorated. While I understand a certain amount of topic drift, I think this new topic deserves its own thread.
    ____
    If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocities. -- Voltaire (1694-1778).

  27. #127
    mitchymo
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    I'd rather exaggerate a statement than judge people based on how much sex they have.
    Nice ad hominem. And for the record, you said ten guys in one day. He has cause to be judged as a whore.

    And I am qualified to observe that only closeted "bi" guys on trashy hook up sites use the term. Therefore that's what I associate it with.
    Oh, i see, it all makes sense now. Its your experience, so must be true. Well there ya go. I'll be sure to call upon you whenever i need an oracle.
    I repeat that I have NEVER heard an out and proud gay guy say it in front of people to describe himself. Have you?
    Yes. Quite simply. I gave an example earlier of how i've used it.

  28. #128
    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    Whores get paid. It's usually a sign of pettiness to judge people for their sex life. There is no shame in consensual sex if it doesn't endanger anyone involved. Christian morality is overrated in that area of human existence.

    My experience argues with your experience. So far you're giving me an example with yourself. I am giving you an example with what I have seen both online and in real life in both one of the gayest college towns in America, AND the oldest gayburhood in Chicago. If you want to disprove me, feel free to find anything online that provides any backbone to your concept of broadening people's horizons or preferably - WHY TX-Beau is wrong.


    Also, I would be super grateful if some kind-hearted mod would extricate this discussion from the rest of the topic and give it its own thread.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  29. #129
    mitchymo
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    It's usually a sign of pettiness to judge people for their sex life.
    And yet not at all petty to glorify it?? i.e. more of a man because..., its a misnomer you brought into the debate, and THAT is petty.

    My experience argues with your experience. So far you're giving me an example with yourself. I am giving you an example with what I have seen both online and in real life in both one of the gayest college towns in America, AND the oldest gayburhood in Chicago. If you want to disprove me, feel free to find anything online that provides any backbone to your concept of broadening people's horizons or preferably - WHY TX-Beau is wrong.
    I have nothing to prove Rolyo. GC started this by likening the term str8-acting to queer. You then insulted me (not directly), as someone who identifies as str8-acting. In my response to explain, this debate has unfolded. You disagree with MY stance. The onus is on YOU to disprove me. You can't do that with your own experiences when like you've pointed out 'your experience argues with mine'. So YOU go find something online that invalidates the phrase str8-acting as being all of the negative things being attributed to it, and those who self-identify with it.

  30. #130
    mitchymo
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    Quote Originally Posted by mitchymo View Post
    And yet not at all petty to glorify it?? i.e. more of a man because..., its an IRRELEVANCE you brought into the debate, and THAT is petty.


    I have nothing to prove Rolyo. GC started this by likening the term str8-acting to queer. You then insulted me (not directly), as someone who identifies as str8-acting. In my response to explain, this debate has unfolded. You disagree with MY stance. The onus is on YOU to disprove me. You can't do that with your own experiences when like you've pointed out 'your experience argues with mine'. So YOU go find something online that invalidates the phrase str8-acting as being all of the negative things being attributed to it, and those who self-identify with it.
    EDIT. Misused the term 'misnomer'. Couldn't think of the word to describe a false equivalance.

  31. #131
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    My anecdotal evidence is bigger than your.......
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  32. #132
    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    Quote Originally Posted by mitchymo View Post
    And yet not at all petty to glorify it?? i.e. more of a man because..., its a misnomer you brought into the debate, and THAT is petty.


    I have nothing to prove Rolyo. GC started this by likening the term str8-acting to queer. You then insulted me (not directly), as someone who identifies as str8-acting. In my response to explain, this debate has unfolded. You disagree with MY stance. The onus is on YOU to disprove me. You can't do that with your own experiences when like you've pointed out 'your experience argues with mine'. So YOU go find something online that invalidates the phrase str8-acting as being all of the negative things being attributed to it, and those who self-identify with it.



    With pleasure. Just make sure you read the actual links, not just my quotes:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straight-acting
    Because the term invokes negative stereotypes of gay people, its application is often controversial and may cause offense.
    http://www.queerty.com/is-our-obsess...mful-20090507/
    Scanning the pages of Los Angeles m4m listings, the same words keep popping up: regular, normal, straight, frat, ex-frat, bi, straight-acting, discreet, and married.

    [snip]

    Straightacting.com became well-known in 2000 for its “famous Straight-Acting Quiz.” Multiple choice questions determine your level of straight-actingness. Or lack thereof. Questions range from how much you enjoy receiving flowers and the frequency you say “pee-pee” instead of penis, to how publicly affectionate you’re willing to be with your partner in a “non-gay environment.” Upon my arrival, any environment turns gay.

    A Level 2 (Very Straight Acting) person is described as having “carefully crafted” actions “in a way that they never appear to be considered too fem.” This is the very essence of straight-acting: the utter calculation of every movement, every word that comes out of your discreetly dick-eating mouth. Kooky Level 6s, on the other hand, enjoy exploring their feminine side. “Most people just assume you are gay…which is just fine with you.” But not fine with the creators and patrons of this site who hold faux masculinity in the highest regard.


    This isn't just me coming on here complaining about another subject, this affects the gay community greatly. People think it's right to be who they aren't and sacrifice happiness for "love"/lust" it isn't ok. Be truthful, be a lie, just be yourself.
    http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...aight%20acting
    1. Conventionally masculine. Describes a homosexual male whose behaviour resembles that of the traditional heterosexual or straight male stereotype. Often considered politically incorrect (or even homophobic) as a label, but can be used facetiously. May apply to gay males who exhibit conventional masculinity out of a genuine predisposition, as well as to those who affect it out of insecurity (sometimes to remain in the closet).
    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/the-...ust_reloaded=1
    The new gay ideal isn't just to be accepted as an 'openly gay' man. We must now strive for further acceptance by being indistinguishable from our heterosexual equivalents. Rather than carve out our own identity, we ape theirs. Now, the new gay norm is the 'straight-actor' with the ultimate compliment being someone not spotting your sexuality. The 'fems' or 'queeny' guys are dismissed as out-dated stereotypes firmly on the descent, but it's a myth - they're still everywhere, no matter how much their much butcher brothers choose to deny them.

    [snip]

    Perhaps we secretly miss the homophobia of days gone by, and thus are more than happy to perpetuate it among ourselves, or maybe it's all those years of being ostracised which make the gay man strive to fit in.
    http://outspokennyc.com/shoutout/how...ng-are-you-bro
    “Straight-acting” is just one of those ridiculous phrases that has made its way into the gay community. People refer to themselves, or possible suitors, as “straight-acting” when the person displays more masculine qualities than a “stereotypical gay man.” Some people who use the term most definitely have a few internal and external insecurities towards themselves for being gay, and others have just adopted using it because it’s commonly heard being used by others. But here in lies the problem.

    Stereotypes.

    We can’t avoid them. Every community has at least one stereotype that goes with it. Priests, Mexicans, Blondes, Southerners, people who listen to Dave Matthews Band; the list goes on forever. There is no way to avoid the gay stereotype. It’s what people see on TV, it’s what comediennes joke about, it’s a part of pop culture, and in some ways even part of the gay civil rights movement. Hell, it’s how Lance Bass “came out” in People magazine. Calling he and his friends “SAGs” and followed up with an explanation of, “We’re just normal, typical guys. I love to watch football and drink beer.” He might as hell have said, “We ain’t no fags.”


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    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
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  33. #133
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    Video argument equals semantics......

    BUT if it makes your juices flow then I am naturally masculine


    And get off the internet and clean your room.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  34. #134
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    Video argument equals semantics......

    BUT if it makes your juices flow then I am naturally masculine


    And get off the internet and clean your room.
    The video makes a very good argument.

    BTW, someone's using my room....

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  35. #135
    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    Well, I was asked for supporting evidence, so I got stuff from different sources. DISCRETE sources if you will And I am greeted by crickets in the topic today. Warms the heart with the glow of righteousness
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  36. #136
    mitchymo
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    Happy for the challenge, i decided to google 'pro straight-acting'.

    I was dissapointed to see that the reults that came back where limited. There was a youtube video link (not even on page 1), but that was a guy whose username is straightactingguy, who like me, defends the term.

    On page 1, there was a link to an anti-term article. A few links to a film called straight acting, and a bunch of articles on masculinity.

    So, it would appear that there is very little to be found in articles that support the use of the term straight-acting.

    There is one upside however. The articles which you have linked to, fall in two categories.

    The first, from urbandictionary, and wikipedia, are impartial. You can cherrypick quotes from the pages which support your argument, yet ignore the impartiality of the articles, which prove nothing in bolstering your case, any more than they do mine.

    wiki:
    Men who use the expression "straight-acting" may express resentment that critics claim the term implies they are acting and not being their true selves.
    urbandictionary:
    May apply to gay males who exhibit conventional masculinity out of a genuine predisposition
    The video which you posted encompasses perfectly, the anti-term attitude towards self-identifying, straight-acting men.
    You have a sterotypical gay lad, who harps on about people 'acting', in the performing sense (note wiki quote above), who goes on to tell us all how we should just be ourselves, regardless of (note urbandictionary quote above) that we are!!

    The guy in the video seems to have the perception that gay men who are not openly stereotypical, have to be hiding stereotypical traits, as if the sterotype IS WHAT GAY IS, and that straight-acting guys are being fake, and untrue. His mum knows better, gay guys come in all flavours. Why is it ok for gay guys to use the words 'femme', or 'butch', yet as soon as a term exists to identify the middle ground, its suddenly homophobic, despite the fact that the term by its very usage differentiates gay from straight.


    Your queerty article link, is nothing more than an opinionated criticism which yet again relies on the misconception of the term. Placing emphasis on 'acting' in a performing way, as opposed to a standard masculine behavioural way.

    From the huffingtonpost article:-
    Rather than carve out our own identity, we ape theirs.
    Criticising the straight-acting gay as being fake, apeing straights, in the same sentence as suggesting we should be seperating ourselves from other men, (carve out our own identity). How is carving out our own identity being ourselves? Its not. Its reaffirming the stereotype, far more than the use of the term straight-acting.

    You can't on the one hand argue that straight-acting as a term usage, reinforces the sterotype of gay men being effeminate, whilst on the other, accepting anything that denotes that sterotype, i.e femme, queer, camp et al.

    If its ok for one guy to identify as a femme, then it sure as hell is ok for me to identify as str8-acting. The sterotypical gay DOES NOT define gay.

    From outspokennyc article:
    How do we fight stereotypes? Well, for starters we can stop using phrases like “straight-acting” to perpetuate them.
    This is a load of bull. If you strip away the gay identity of any gay, simply because you don't like the possible connotations it has on the streotypically gay, you are left with no sterotype but the one that already exists. THAT is perpetuating the stereotype.

    Also from outspokennyc:
    When people use “straight-acting” it’s usually in a tone that makes it feel like acting “straight” is more of an endearing quality to have than acting stereotypically “gay” or having effeminate qualities.
    This is particularly one of the dumbest statements i have ever read. By nature, gay men like men, its self-evident that masculine qualities are more desirable, on a physical level at the absolute least.

  37. #137
    mitchymo
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Well, I was asked for supporting evidence, so I got stuff from different sources. DISCRETE sources if you will And I am greeted by crickets in the topic today. Warms the heart with the glow of righteousness
    You know Rolyo, a guy isn't online 24/7, even if they'd like to be. And may i just add, the timing of your self-righteous glow couldn't have BEEN any more badly timed. I suspect that glow has changed shade. I'm feeling pretty smug at the thought, no offence, but its just funny.

  38. #138
    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    So, basically, your counter-argument is not to provide ANY defense for it (and btw to add "pro" is a cop-out, the term should fetch the needed results on its own if they existed), but to point out that some of my sources are impartial and others attack the "acting" part? I am sorry, friend, but the glow is intensifying, and has begun throbbing...

    Because this proves two things:
    1. That even impartial sources point out clearly that there is an overall negative connotation of the term (which they do usually in the very first paragraph).
    2. That when most people hear "straight-acting", they think of pretense and that's why the term is negative, whether the minority uses it in some other way or not.

    Now, you can tell me "not everyone thinks it means that" and give me the "some people" wiki quote, but in the end, it's like trying to argue with me that "gay" means "happy". Sure it does. But that's not what 99% of people with access to mainstream culture will hear when they hear the word. And unless you have ANY credible sources to defend the term "straight-acting", so far it seems it is in the same camp - a largely offensive term that SOME people (mostly - though not exclusively! - closet cases and those who aren't yet fully ok with their sexuality) choose to use as a positive thing.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  39. #139
    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    In the end, if I keep calling you a "filthy faggot" and when you get offended, I keep pointing out that to ME that's a really sweet complement, which of us is having a communication problem? And to "queer" things up, if I think that being called "cute" is the biggest insult in the world, whose problem is that?
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  40. #140
    mitchymo
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    So, basically, your counter-argument is not to provide ANY defense for it (and btw to add "pro" is a cop-out, the term should fetch the needed results on its own if they existed), but to point out that some of my sources are impartial and others attack the "acting" part? I am sorry, friend, but the glow is intensifying, and has begun throbbing...

    Because this proves two things:
    1. That even impartial sources point out clearly that there is an overall negative connotation of the term (which they do usually in the very first paragraph).
    2. That when most people hear "straight-acting", they think of pretense and that's why the term is negative, whether the minority uses it in some other way or not.

    Now, you can tell me "not everyone thinks it means that" and give me the "some people" wiki quote, but in the end, it's like trying to argue with me that "gay" means "happy". Sure it does. But that's not what 99% of people with access to mainstream culture will hear when they hear the word. And unless you have ANY credible sources to defend the term "straight-acting", so far it seems it is in the same camp - a largely offensive term that SOME people (mostly - though not exclusively! - closet cases and those who aren't yet fully ok with their sexuality) choose to use as a positive thing.
    Your impartial sources DO NOT indicate the term is negative.

    This source is a good example: http://all-science-fair-projects.com...traight-acting

    Furthermore, the abundance of anti-term posts associated, does not prove your case, this is simply an ad populum fallacy.

    Remember, its not me calling anyone else anything, its me calling myself straight-acting, and unless you can prove that my doing so is damaging to the gay community, instead of just getting some oversensitive knickers in a twist about losing the right to associate effeminacy with being gay, as opposed to that just being the way they are, then the phrase aint gonna go away.

    Thats how it looks from my perspective. Criticise the straight-acting guys and call them fake so that femmes have an 'excuse' for their effeminacy. There is NO EXCUSE NEEDED, be yourself, but let other gays be themself too! We are a diverse group, and its repugnant to dismiss a section of it for being DIVERSE.
    The phrase doesn't perpetuate any 'gay way' of being, it only reflects that the gay stereotype is wrong.

  41. #141
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    I sure could see someone slitting his wrists over this thread and how it's been so off topic. Any chance you guys can get the title changed to reflect the actual discussion?

    Then maybe we can have a thread about Romney supporters and their post-election activities...

  42. #142
    mitchymo
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    ^ yeah, you are of course right. Its so easy to get involved in derailments tho.

    I think that attempting murder or committing suicide over Obama winning the election is simply dumb. There is no other way to describe the absurdity of it.

  43. #143
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    I just don't get how one can get so defensive over a label like "straight acting". I still don't get what one is trying to prove when they describe themselves as that. And yes, it's highly damaging to the gay community because it indicates that one considers being gay as inferior. They want to try be one of those "I'm straight, but I like to fuck guys" types... this is at least my view.

    And what excuse do feminine guys have? I've seen some rather vicious attacks on effeminate guys in your posts, mitchy. Straight acting sets up a whole new set of ridiculous stereotypes... and it's not good at all. What does straight acting means anyways? Is it fake masculinity that people put up just to cover up the fact that they're gay?

    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/acting?s=t

    And I would look at the definition of "acting" itself. It's not being real... it's about putting on a performance... or in this case a "facade".

    It's interesting how one will defend "straight acting" yet criticize the word "queer" so harshly... and ironic.

  44. #144
    mitchymo
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    [QUOTE=GiancarloC;8497774]
    I just don't get how one can get so defensive over a label like "straight acting".
    Now replace defensive, with offensive, and you see MY perspective.
    And yes, it's highly damaging to the gay community because it indicates that one considers being gay as inferior.
    Simply untrue GC. It has nothing to do with gay being inferior. I AM GAY, and happily so. Its a distinction of the gay stereotype, that's all. Its not trying to prove anything, just reflect something (the gay stereotype is false).
    I've seen some rather vicious attacks on effeminate guys in your posts, mitchy.
    Not in my character to be such GC, find them posts and i'll explain if you like.

    It's interesting how one will defend "straight acting" yet criticize the word "queer" so harshly... and ironic.
    Queer is being used to describe ALL gay people, regardless of it being unnecessary. Gay will do fine thx. I'm not odd or strange, i hate the word and its history. Whoever decided to adopt the term queer, are likely those that think it aptly describes them. It does not describe me. When broadening the scope of 'queer' LGBT works fine. Its got to the point that in order to include its usage, its expanded to include those with unusual sex lives. Its pathetic. The queer community seems to exist for no other reason than to spite the heteronormative one. Straight-acting however, is SELF-descriptive. Its not a potentially offensive label imposition.

  45. #145
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    Quote Originally Posted by mitchymo View Post
    Simply untrue GC. It has nothing to do with gay being inferior. I AM GAY, and happily so. Its a distinction of the gay stereotype, that's all. Its not trying to prove anything, just reflect something (the gay stereotype is false).
    What is the gay stereotype? Effeminate gay guys? And the gay stereotype is false? The gay community consists of many different kinds of people... not all the same.

    Queer is being used to describe ALL gay people, regardless of it being unnecessary. Gay will do fine thx. I'm not odd or strange, i hate the word and its history. Whoever decided to adopt the term queer, are likely those that think it aptly describes them. It does not describe me. When broadening the scope of 'queer' LGBT works fine. Its got to the point that in order to include its usage, its expanded to include those with unusual sex lives. Its pathetic. The queer community seems to exist for no other reason than to spite the heteronormative one. Syraight-acting however, is SELF-descriptive. Its not a potentially offensive label imposition.
    That's only your take on it. The word has been adopted as the term "queer". And nobody is asking anyone to use words to describes themselves they don't want. Your definition of queer suggests negative connotation and in the context I have used it in, it clearly does not. Straight acting is just mere acting. And it's offensive to those of us who aren't and don't wish to try to live to the norms of heterosexual men.

    Queer in the context I described is not a pathetic word at all. Straight acting is just another label people use when they don't want to be associated with effeminate gay men. Not a very nice attitude to hold either way.

  46. #146
    FEAR THE LIBERAL DETENTE! TX-Beau's Avatar
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    [QUOTE=mitchymo;8497808]
    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    Queer is being used to describe ALL gay people, regardless of it being unnecessary. Gay will do fine thx. I'm not odd or strange, i hate the word and its history. Whoever decided to adopt the term queer, are likely those that think it aptly describes them. It does not describe me. When broadening the scope of 'queer' LGBT works fine. Its got to the point that in order to include its usage, its expanded to include those with unusual sex lives. Its pathetic. The queer community seems to exist for no other reason than to spite the heteronormative one. Straight-acting however, is SELF-descriptive. Its not a potentially offensive label imposition.
    Please.

    Of course "straight acting" is SELF-descriptive it's also SELF-deluded. I've never met a "straight acting" guy who didn't run around telling himself that being thus SELF-descriptive was some kind of fucking honor. I know I sure did, I thought I was god's gift to gay men everywhere because I wasn't a limp wristed little faggot who liked glittery shoes. That is homophobia, this kind of sentiment is incredibly common in gay life because of the number one thing 'phobes say we must hate ourselves over - effeminacy.

    Everything you are trying to push is pretty much just flaming hoops you are leaping through in order to justify that stupid 'phobic label.

    What it comes down to is that you are choosing to disassociate yourself from the "sterotypically" gay (read abnormally effeminate) because somewhere in your head you have a problem with it - save your dudgeon, you are so defensive about it, there is nothing you can possibly say that will convince otherwise, and I RECOGNIZE the syndrome.
    ATTACK OF THE LIBERAL ELITE

  47. #147
    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    Mitch, will you address the overabundance of data that suggests that the cult of the straight man in gay culture leads to more divisiveness and ostracizing members of the community for their femininity? Fine, YOU don't mean it offensively. Great for YOU. This only brings me to my example of calling you a filthy faggot and claiming I don't mean it offensively. I provided you with links. You gave me nothing but "yeah, those aren't good enough because I don't agree with them"...

    My problem right now is that I am getting a mental image of you using a term you never really thought much about. You didn't consciously put negative connotation in it, and suddenly people all around are telling you it's actually offensive. So you're naturally surprised, and maybe feel somewhat attacked. My question is this - why is your reaction to lead an absurd argument where you can present no proof of anything you say, other than to disagree with the other side's proof, instead of just saying "jeez, well maybe I just hadn't thought of it that way". Agreeing the term is harmful to the gay community doesn't make you complicit in its use, it only makes you more aware.

    Words matter. And I believe when we are aware of the baggage that certain terms are loaded with, we have a responsibility to not use them, or to avoid offensive context. I used to call things "retarded". I don't anymore. Not because I EVER meant offense to mentally challenged people, but simply because I became aware that it is ALWAYS offensive to them, whether I mean it or not, and because perpetuating the term - even out of earshot of those it could offend - only perpetuates and validates the misconception that it is ok to use it in this way.
    Last edited by Rolyo85; November 20th, 2012 at 12:38 PM.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
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  48. #148
    FEAR THE LIBERAL DETENTE! TX-Beau's Avatar
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    What is the gay stereotype? Effeminate gay guys? And the gay stereotype is false? The gay community consists of many different kinds of people... not all the same.
    And the only reason to call oneself "straight" in any respect is because somewhere in one's mind, one buys into that effeminate=wrong, and gay=effeminate.

    I have no problem being associated with effeminate guys Some of them are gay I'm gay who gives flying fuck.

    I feel absolutely no need to "inform" ANYONE that I'm really just like a straight guy, if they know me they know me and there is NO need to introduce distinctions built around effeminacy - and if they assume that, great, I don't care.

    It's fucking bullshit. The only person a "straight acting" gay guy is fooling is himself.
    ATTACK OF THE LIBERAL ELITE

  49. #149
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    Back to topic. I remember how I felt in 2000 when the election was so disputed. I was disappointed once the final outcome was determined, but my goodness, harming myself or someone who didn't share my beliefs? Never crossed my mind.

    I remember hearing about people who were going to move out of the USA; I wonder if any actually did? That aways made me laugh out loud when someone would say that. Never took them serious.

    I did read about a week ago a long story in the Washington Post about a Romney/Ryan campaign supporter in Tennessee. I almost felt sorry for her, until I read some of her actual quotes. Lions and tigers and bears, oh my...

  50. #150
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    Well perhaps they are correct to be upset... they thought they could steal the election fair and square....

    Did Anonymous stop Rove from stealing the election?

    Then, following Obama’s win and Rove’s very public outburst, a group calling themselves “The Protectors,” believed to be comprised of Anonymous hackers, sent a letter to election transparency non-profit, Velvet Revolution, claiming to have thwarted attempts by GOP strategists to flip votes and rig the election in three swing states.
    This shit is straight out of a b-rated movie... Still the republicans do appear honest acting.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


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