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  1. #51
    Ijubbinatti BostonPirate's Avatar
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    Quote Originally Posted by mitchymo View Post
    I can't recall getting the email....

    The word queer is offensive to me, and it is just as offensive when its a group of gays using it to describe 'us'. No. They can call themselves queer if they want, but don't include me in that.

    I'm not odd or unusual or stange, and i don't need a word to describe me as such, nor do i need it as slang for gay, when gay IS the slang.
    I was talking to the contractor that works on some of my properties when tenants move out... general facelift stuff.

    He told me that the new tennant was.... he paused... well not normal gay like me, that act like normal men, but one of those.... and he did the limp wrist thing.

    He is a good man, but he is a product of his environment. Up in New England, there is a weird thing developing now, where gay people are accepted openly so long as they don't always " act so gay". As we, the gay community assimilate into the general society in new england, there is that weird thing....

    It's like the way dark blacks are treated by lighter skinned black.

    I think the gay movement is heading into the "it's ok to be gay as long as you can pass as straight" in general society, not by really hiding your homosexuality, but by behaving in ways that do not make it obvious on a moment to moment basis. I THINK people are at the point, the older conservative manual labor types, that they want to be courteous, but are uncomfortable with reminders of it while interacting.

    I think that's one reason that there is so much teeth gnashing going on at gay pride parades about hiding the flamers and the dragqueens.

    People want to maintain this detente.
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  2. #52
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    Quote Originally Posted by mitchymo View Post
    In what context exactly, is using the term queer, NOT reinforcing the narrow mind?
    The term queer does not carry negative connotation (depending on context). "We're queer, we're here, get used to it" - Is this often used statement reinforcing a narrow mind? I'm not seeing it. Sorry.

    http://www.nytimes.com/1991/04/06/ny...-of-negro.html

    This is an article all the way back from 1991... when Queernation first used the term and turned it around. It's where the statement "We're here, we're queer... so get used to it" came from.
    Last edited by GiancarloC; November 18th, 2012 at 11:14 AM. Reason: addition

  3. #53
    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mitchymo View Post

    In what context exactly, is using the term queer, NOT reinforcing the narrow mind?
    In the context where the young generation of Americans don't see it as offensive. Maybe it's different in the UK but I promise you that a lot of gender/sexuality non-conforming kids are using the all-encompassing term queer now. There is a field of gender studies called "queer studies" too. So yes, at least in America the term "queer" today is not offensive.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
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  4. #54
    mitchymo
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    The term queer does not carry negative connotation (depending on context). "We're queer, we're here, get used to it" - Is this often used statement reinforcing a narrow mind? I'm not seeing it. Sorry.
    The term queer is derogatory in its origin when associated to non-straights. By adopting the term, you are validating the use of it in the eyes of those who subscribe to its negative connotations. In so doing, you are contributing to their bigotry, as they'll likely take the attitude that 'we're right about 'them' being queer, so we must be right about....' insert all other misconceptions and beliefs.

    Furthermore, the article does point out the term 'militants' to describe those who started adopting the term to describe themselves. By nature, militants don't care too much, not even about the way that those they claim to represent may feel. This can be described as equally narrow-minded, since the term being considered acceptable to some, does not make it acceptable to all. By imposing the word on an entire section of society, whether they like it or not, is divisive.
    The fact that it expands to include not only those who are not straight, but those who are transgender, or who are into BDSM or have other niche sexual interests, appears to divide society into those who are, 'either'/'or'. Like, Them or Us, like Repub or Dem. Its polarising.
    I can accept the label 'gay' because its simple. It identifies the key aspect that makes me different to some others. The term 'queer' however, doesn't identify that difference, it simply tells me i am, and that's ostracizing. The whole point of gay rights is to be regarded as just the same as everyone else, regardless of difference, not to take a seperatist attitude where people are lumped into a group on the basis that they are not the same as those who are heteronormative.

    What is wrong with using LGBT to describe queer? Other than queer being quicker to say? Queer is not needed for any purpose that there isn't already a satisfactory, non-offensive equivalant.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    So yes, at least in America the term "queer" today is not offensive.
    That is debateable though is it not? A quick Google scout will show that the term queer is contentious.

    Over here, i can't honestly say whether the youth uses the term or not. I'm not in the mainstream of gay culture. I've rarely heard the term, rarely read the term tho. I honestly don't see what 'queer' is representing, that doesn't already have a representation that is perfectly adequate and inoffensive on any level.

  5. #55
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    One of the first gay bars I ever walked into had a big sign that said "If you're here / you're queer".

    One of the more lively ones I've ever visited had a song asserting pride in being queer (along with being fudgepackers and other things).

    Just saying I've heard more gays call themselves queer than straights use the term at all.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  6. #56
    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Just saying I've heard more gays call themselves queer than straights use the term at all.
    This. I haven't heard the word used as an insult in years.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
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  7. #57
    JubberClubber White Eagle's Avatar
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    Yeah I am not trying to piss in anyone's Wheaties but it is clearly evident to me that our incarcerated population does not receive adequate mental health care. By care I mean cared for to a successful outcome. Not just having a chat with a different mental health worker every time a prisoner has an outburst...

    One could easily argue Texas has the reputation of being the toughest penal system on crime... remember the joking about other states banning death penalties while Texas put in a speed line....? Well Texas finally realized that being at the forefront of incarceration was going to bankrupt the state... so they changed to rehab and training instead of incarceration for many crimes....


    (I highly encourage anyone with a interest in our incarcerated nation
    to read this article and more on Texas they are doing wonderful things)
    [/CENTER]

    They have been so successful last year they did something that has never occurred before in Texas. They closed a prison.

    Treatment and training is the answer for these folks run over by our capitalistic society of self attainment. For whatever reason they were never given a chance and I would argue faulty thinking has a strong basis for why these folks do things incorrectly. Faulty thinking can be overcome through treatment...

    Think of it this way... would anyone argue that a criminal was thinking incorrectly when they stole or even murdered?
    Never heard of it. Thanks for the post.
    I assume I never heard of it because I'm on the email list for the executions. I feel this has not changed. Perry likes the feeling when they inject the felon.
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  8. #58
    JubberClubber White Eagle's Avatar
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    Quote Originally Posted by BostonPirate View Post
    I was talking to the contractor that works on some of my properties when tenants move out... general facelift stuff.

    He told me that the new tennant was.... he paused... well not normal gay like me, that act like normal men, but one of those.... and he did the limp wrist thing.

    He is a good man, but he is a product of his environment. Up in New England, there is a weird thing developing now, where gay people are accepted openly so long as they don't always " act so gay". As we, the gay community assimilate into the general society in new england, there is that weird thing....

    It's like the way dark blacks are treated by lighter skinned black.

    I think the gay movement is heading into the "it's ok to be gay as long as you can pass as straight" in general society, not by really hiding your homosexuality, but by behaving in ways that do not make it obvious on a moment to moment basis. I THINK people are at the point, the older conservative manual labor types, that they want to be courteous, but are uncomfortable with reminders of it while interacting.

    I think that's one reason that there is so much teeth gnashing going on at gay pride parades about hiding the flamers and the dragqueens.

    People want to maintain this detente.
    Dammit, Keith did it again!
    When will I learn?
    As for your post it probably work nation wide but will everyone (Gay that is) want to do it?
    BEWARE! Harassing the Indian may result in sudden and severe hair loss.

  9. #59
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    Quote Originally Posted by mitchymo View Post
    The term queer is derogatory in its origin when associated to non-straights. By adopting the term, you are validating the use of it in the eyes of those who subscribe to its negative connotations. In so doing, you are contributing to their bigotry, as they'll likely take the attitude that 'we're right about 'them' being queer, so we must be right about....' insert all other misconceptions and beliefs.
    Read the article I posted. It was taken by the gay community and turned around. No, I am not contributing to bigotry. That's a total misnomer. The word does not have negative connotations (at least in the US). So you're actually saying universities are encouraging bigotry by making a "Queer studies" department? I think there may be a difference in the English language with America and England. The connotation on the word isn't negative in the US.

    Furthermore, the article does point out the term 'militants' to describe those who started adopting the term to describe themselves. By nature, militants don't care too much, not even about the way that those they claim to represent may feel. This can be described as equally narrow-minded, since the term being considered acceptable to some, does not make it acceptable to all. By imposing the word on an entire section of society, whether they like it or not, is divisive.
    By nature, militants don't care too much? Actually they do care. Many of them were on the front lines trying to get things done after the horrible HIV/AIDS epidemic of the 1980s. And that article is from 1991. The word is vastly more accepted as fine and not negative by the gay community as a whole in this day and age.

    I can accept the label 'gay' because its simple. It identifies the key aspect that makes me different to some others. The term 'queer' however, doesn't identify that difference, it simply tells me i am, and that's ostracizing. The whole point of gay rights is to be regarded as just the same as everyone else, regardless of difference, not to take a seperatist attitude where people are lumped into a group on the basis that they are not the same as those who are heteronormative.
    Then don't accept it. I do accept it and I know it's not ostracizing at all. It's your interpretation of the word, not mine and not the interpretation of most of the gay community. It has nothing to do with taking a separatist attitude. This is much the same nonsense about the label "straight acting".

    Over here, i can't honestly say whether the youth uses the term or not. I'm not in the mainstream of gay culture. I've rarely heard the term, rarely read the term tho. I honestly don't see what 'queer' is representing, that doesn't already have a representation that is perfectly adequate and inoffensive on any level.
    I know. But I'm talking about the mainstream of gay culture... so whether an individual does not fit into mainstream gay culture isn't my point (and I'm not saying anything is wrong with that). The term is common here in America and it doesn't contain a negative connotation. Universities even use it to describe the "LGBT" oriented department... they call it "Queer Studies". That's just the way things work over here.

    Queer is also not used as an insult here... I haven't heard it used as an insult here. Bullies and homophobes I've encountered tend to use the word "fag", "Joto" or "maricon" (the last two being Spanish words - joto is specifically used in Mexico).

  10. #60
    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    Wait, what about "straight acting"?
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
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  11. #61
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Wait, what about "straight acting"?
    There was an argument about the use of that label and I am not particularly fond of it.

  12. #62
    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    It's a self-hating term used by guys who try to tell the works they're not "that gay"...
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  13. #63
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    The Texas prison phenomenon is amazing. It's been advocated for years, and Texas is about the last place I thought it would take root. But it's been the norm in much of the western world for a long time, so it was known it would work.


    On the other strain here, I have at least once heard the word "queer" used in negative fashion, but the response was several gays together chanting, "We're queer, we're here -- live with it, dear". I loved the last line, which made the guy trying to insult just one of them furious.

    I heard it another time as an insult and the response was, "Everyone's queer, some are gay". I'm not sure what that was supposed to mean, but then it confused the other guy, so I guess it landed well.

    Note that in neither case did the gays object to the word or find it insulting.

    Meanwhile, in dozens of other cases I've heard gays use it nearly or totally proudly.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  14. #64
    mitchymo
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    There was an argument about the use of that label and I am not particularly fond of it.
    There is a big difference between the two. Straight acting is self identifying, its not a label imposed on ALL gays at my leisure. The term queer is being applied to ALL who pertain to its so called definition, like it or not. I don't like it being imposed on me. It has no relevance to me. I'm not odd, or strange, and i don't see why i should be bandied in with a group of people simply because i'm NOT a boring heterosexual.

    Apart from the word itself being horrid, and i don't mean in any context. I literally mean the sound of the word, the 'qw' followed by 'eer', its a horrible word. Its roots mean odd/strange/funny(not in the ha-ha way), which reflects only some of the key group it claims to be the buzzword for, AND it has a history of being used as a pejorative.

    So, sorry, but i think that those who have adopted it to describe a 'community' are self imposing what best describes THEM.

    In the case of 'queer studies', whoever coined the term, or thought of introducing it is just another one of THEM.

    And by them, i DO mean queers - in the traditional sense - of being odd.



    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    It's a self-hating term used by guys who try to tell the works they're not "that gay"...
    Yeah thats right, i frequently wear tight t-shirts and mince about listening to Celine Dion, whilst wafting my boa containing hands around the place bitching at the tv about some ugly chick that needs to get a perm. On my days off, the rest of the time, i'm just faking who i am...

    Fact is, i'm not 'that gay' if you're taking the sterotypical as the base. The term exists in opposition to those who quite happily describe themselves as 'camp'. But camp is not a problem is it, no, because thats what 'gay' should be, right....

    Don't hate me (straight-actor mitch) for being me, cos that makes YOU a bigot.

  15. #65
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    Quote Originally Posted by mitchymo View Post
    There is a big difference between the two. Straight acting is self identifying, its not a label imposed on ALL gays at my leisure. The term queer is being applied to ALL who pertain to its so called definition, like it or not. I don't like it being imposed on me. It has no relevance to me. I'm not odd, or strange, and i don't see why i should be bandied in with a group of people simply because i'm NOT a boring heterosexual.
    No. The word queer is a word you're not fond of liking. Nobody is imposing anything. The word queer has been adopted by the gay community in the US, and is used by universities "queer studies department".

    Apart from the word itself being horrid, and i don't mean in any context. I literally mean the sound of the word, the 'qw' followed by 'eer', its a horrible word. Its roots mean odd/strange/funny(not in the ha-ha way), which reflects only some of the key group it claims to be the buzzword for, AND it has a history of being used as a pejorative.
    The word isn't horrid. It's not a horrible word. Not in the context I have talked about numerous times.

    In the case of 'queer studies', whoever coined the term, or thought of introducing it is just another one of THEM.
    Utter malarkey!

  16. #66
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    Quote Originally Posted by mitchymo View Post
    Yeah thats right, i frequently wear tight t-shirts and mince about listening to Celine Dion, whilst wafting my boa containing hands around the place bitching at the tv about some ugly chick that needs to get a perm. On my days off, the rest of the time, i'm just faking who i am...
    I just knew it... and you said you were straight acting....


    When does the socially acceptable to the gay prudes dictionary come out.... I am looking for the "Crazy as a Fundie" Version.....
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  17. #67
    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    I am sorry, Mitch, but do you EVER pay ANY attention to context? And for that matter - wording? Are you aware of what the term "acting" means? It means pretending. Many of us aren't "that gay", but to advertize it as some advantage (it's not) or a point of honor (it's not) or a plight to be accepted (it shouldn't be) is completely pathetic. Furthermore, this is a term most often used in hook up sites by headless torsos too closeted to even show their face, who are so disgusted with anything "gay" that they can only stomach sex with other males if the other guy exudes dudeness with every burp and fart. It's disgusting and sad.

    You aren't straight acting. You are you. Just because maybe you have more qualities associated with straight men than the gay stereotype (so do I, and I imagine so does Giancarlo), should not be reason to label yourself with a derogatory auto-homophobic label. Words matter. The images those words create, the stereotypes they enforce, matter. No self-respecting proud gay man is "straight-acting", even if he's the manliest man that ever manned.
    Last edited by Rolyo85; November 19th, 2012 at 12:42 PM.
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  18. #68
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    Quote Originally Posted by BostonPirate View Post
    I was talking to the contractor that works on some of my properties when tenants move out... general facelift stuff.

    He told me that the new tennant was.... he paused... well not normal gay like me, that act like normal men, but one of those.... and he did the limp wrist thing.

    He is a good man, but he is a product of his environment. Up in New England, there is a weird thing developing now, where gay people are accepted openly so long as they don't always " act so gay". As we, the gay community assimilate into the general society in new england, there is that weird thing....

    It's like the way dark blacks are treated by lighter skinned black.

    I think the gay movement is heading into the "it's ok to be gay as long as you can pass as straight" in general society, not by really hiding your homosexuality, but by behaving in ways that do not make it obvious on a moment to moment basis. I THINK people are at the point, the older conservative manual labor types, that they want to be courteous, but are uncomfortable with reminders of it while interacting.

    I think that's one reason that there is so much teeth gnashing going on at gay pride parades about hiding the flamers and the dragqueens.

    People want to maintain this detente.
    Conditional Acceptance = SA/SA. yes it's annoying and trumpets one's insecurities, but then it's also a step on the road to actual acceptance.
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    Straight Acting ATTEMPTS TO IDENTIFY NORMAL EXCLUSIVELY, SOLELY IN TERMS OF "STRAIGHT,"


    STRAIGHT ACTING

    See, it's not even subtle. Why is gay acting supposed to mean effeminate?

    "....but but but......"

    No fucking buts (grin) that is exactly the implicit assertion - one fucks men but that's OK because one acts "straight," (masculine, normal) and not GAy (effeminate, abnormal)

    "nuh uh...""

    uh huh.
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    Oh and yeah:

    I fuck men but I'm straight acting........

    Really Louise? ya know 'cause those straight guys are so into all that.
    ATTACK OF THE LIBERAL ELITE

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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    So what term is apropo for describing an affinity for men who do not prance, preen or sway?

    Come on oh great politically correct ones... help us out... cause the predominant term in the gay community is straight acting... simple effective and declarative....

    Ya'll sure do figure out great and new fangled ways to whine and fucking moan daily.....
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  22. #72
    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    I'm bored with your attempts at belittling.

    This is not about political correctness, it's about self-respect. And I don't know what's predominant in the gay community, but I have NEVER heard anyone say this in real life to describe themselves, and I have never encountered it from anyone not at LEAST partially closeted.

    But if for you "str8 acting u b 2" is the level of dignity that the gay community should have, by all means, use any term you deem appropriate to that level. Don't forget to put "sucking off straight men when they're drunk enough" as an ultimate achievement of any gay man too.

    PS - the world would be a so much better place if more males were evolved enough to be more "gay acting"...
    Last edited by Rolyo85; November 19th, 2012 at 01:46 PM.
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  23. #73
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    This. I haven't heard the word used as an insult in years.
    Google "Fucking Queer" and you can find hundreds if not thousands of results where it is used as an insult...

    One cannot insulate themselves from the vast majority of a society and then make overwhelmingly false claims about how things work...

    The base idea that you have somehow the epitome of anecdotal evidence that it must respresent all is alarming and very descriptive of your opinion of yourself.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    So what term is apropo for describing an affinity for men who do not prance, preen or sway?

    Come on oh great politically correct ones... help us out... cause the predominant term in the gay community is straight acting... simple effective and declarative....

    Ya'll sure do figure out great and new fangled ways to whine and fucking moan daily.....
    How about Gay?

    Tell me, why does gay automatically mean "prance."

    Fucking homophobia - internalized or not, that's why.

    I'm not even going to argue this with you. I know this terrain extremely well, I used to be one of these guys.

    That term specifically tries to distance the one who uses it from being gay. Period. Full stop. Because of the homophobic assumption that real men aren't gay.
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    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    That may very well be... however there is a extremely large portion of gay America who feel just that way.... if they wanted a women they would be straight is often the argument... obviously that isn't true but it does describe someone attracted to a man and manly attributes.
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    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    Google "Fucking Queer" and you can find hundreds if not thousands of results where it is used as an insult...

    One cannot insulate themselves from the vast majority of a society and then make overwhelmingly false claims about how things work...

    The base idea that you have somehow the epitome of anecdotal evidence that it must respresent all is alarming and very descriptive of your opinion of yourself.
    Blah de blah. Personal attacks in lieu of arguments. TX-Beau said it perfectly.

    And because I LOVE me a challenge, here's what my google search produced:



    Oh, and in case one is wondering about the YouTube video, it's 18 seconds of two teenage boys chasing each other with microphone stands and goofing around in a recording studio. And it's from 2005.
    Last edited by Rolyo85; November 19th, 2012 at 02:02 PM.
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    That may very well be... however there is a extremely large portion of gay America who feel just that way.... if they wanted a women they would be straight is often the argument... obviously that isn't true but it does describe someone attracted to a man and manly attributes.
    No there isn't, there is a distinct subset of closeted or semi-closeted or bi guys who hide it that is the ONLY group who use "straight acting," and most of them are GAY men (and generally nowhere near as butch as they claim to be once you get past the posturing.)

    This being a porn site is over-represented in that respect, but if you go hang out on gay boards populated by out gay men with no dick shots - my position in here will look far more accommodating.

    Because it's insulting to gay men - to say to them that I'M a REAL man because I ACT like a STRAIGHT guy.
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    Well here is an interesting fact about insulating yourself ... did Rolyo know that unless you opt out of the feature Google returns what you want to see based on your previous history... not the entirely of the results... proof positive you insulate yourself to define your own opinion and then believe it is reality.....

    Real non-user defined results.



    Click image for larger version. 

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    FEAR THE LIBERAL DETENTE! TX-Beau's Avatar
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    Which by the way is a definition of straight that is completely queer defined and in no way actually defines how real straight guys (whose only common denominator is that they fuck women,) in fact behave.
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  30. #80
    mitchymo
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    I am sorry, Mitch, but do you EVER pay ANY attention to context? And for that matter - wording? Are you aware of what the term "acting" means? It means pretending. Many of us aren't "that gay", but to advertize it as some advantage (it's not) or a point of honor (it's not) or a plight to be accepted (it shouldn't be) is completely pathetic. Furthermore, this is a term most often used in hook up sites by headless torsos too closeted to even show their face, who are so disgusted with anything "gay" that they can only stomach sex with other males if the other guy exudes dudeness with every burp and fart. It's disgusting and sad.

    You aren't straight acting. You are you. Just because maybe you have more qualities associated with straight men than the gay stereotype (so do I, and I imagine so does Giancarlo), should not be reason to label yourself with a derogatory auto-homophobic label. Words matter. The images those words create, the stereotypes they enforce, matter. No self-respecting proud gay man is "straight-acting", even if he's the manliest man that ever manned.
    Ok. Point 1, 'acting', does not JUST mean pretending, it means 'behaving like', which is not the same as pretending. Its not acting in a false way, which is obviously your interpretation, its acting in a way that is 'like', as in 'like a straight guy', (but not).

    Secondly, i'm not a headless torso on a hook-up site who is ashamed of being associated with anything 'gay'. Neither am i in the closet. So that is pretty much a redundant point to make.

    Lastly, i don't advertise the fact that i'm straight-acting. If anyone says to me, "it never occurred to me that you're gay", or "i'd never have guessed", THEN i bring out the term as a means of saying it's no great surprise, i'm not stereotypical. But, i think it would be more derogatory and 'auto-homophobic' to say i'm NOT sterotypical, NOT camp, NOT effeminate, whatever, than to just say what i regard myself i AM. That is all i'm doing, describing myself. I'm not using the term to seperate myself from other gay people. If i didn't have an affinity with the term straight-acting, i'd be left with saying what i'm not, and that is far more akin to saying 'im NOT like them' than what saying i'm str8-acting is.


    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post

    [B][SIZE=5]
    Why is gay acting supposed to mean effeminate?
    Its not supposed to mean effeminate, but the sterotype DOES, that's the point. Str8-acting doesn't exist in opposition to gay-acting, str8-acting guys are gay-acting too, but we don't say we are gay-acting, because that defeats the purpose of making a distinction between the stereotypical and the non. (again, that is not to be seperatist, its to self-identify).

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    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    No there isn't, there is a distinct subset of closeted or semi-closeted or bi guys who hide it that is the ONLY group who use "straight acting," and most of them are GAY men (and generally nowhere near as butch as they claim to be once you get past the posturing.)

    This being a porn site is over-represented in that respect, but if you go hang out on gay boards populated by out gay men with no dick shots - my position in here will look far more accommodating.

    Because it's insulting to gay men - to say to them that I'M a REAL man because I ACT like a STRAIGHT guy.
    It is insulting to you as a gay man and mostly you alone... however after being in 32 states in the last 22 years and being single and looking at gay men most of that time I can tell you many more describe themselves at such. That is of course my anecdotal tale BUT at the same time this and on internet message boards safely hidden behind the internet is where I see most of this angry posturing... never have seen it in reality... whether at the top of a gay pride float on Thayer street in Providence or in coffee shops of Hillcrest in Sandy Ego or in the midwestern cornfields... all seems just about the same to me....in person that is...
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
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    FEAR THE LIBERAL DETENTE! TX-Beau's Avatar
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    yeah see after being a gay man all my life and being all over this country and several others I've never found that there is a huge gay majority of "straight acting."
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    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    Your loss they are a much larger group....
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    "...I know you are but what am I..."

    ?
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    Exactly my point... you disagree with a huge group of gay men for the words they use... really?
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    Quote Originally Posted by mitchymo View Post
    Its not supposed to mean effeminate, but the sterotype DOES, that's the point. Str8-acting doesn't exist in opposition to gay-acting, str8-acting guys are gay-acting too, but we don't say we are gay-acting, because that defeats the purpose of making a distinction between the stereotypical and the non. (again, that is not to be separatist, its to self-identify).
    I've used every rationalization in the book for "straight acting" myself, and you really aren't saying anything I didn't tell myself - but whatever justification that's used, the fact remains that you are trying to buy "normality" by making a claim to straight as the benchmark of "normal."

    Period.

    otherwise you could simply say to all those people who are apparently so incredulous that you could possibly be gay, that surprise, you are a gay man who likes beer and football, and redefine the stereotype instead of reinforcing it by validating it.
    ATTACK OF THE LIBERAL ELITE

  37. #87
    mitchymo
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    and most of them are GAY men (and generally nowhere near as butch as they claim to be once you get past the posturing.)

    Because it's insulting to gay men - to say to them that I'M a REAL man because I ACT like a STRAIGHT guy.
    Two points. To the bolded part. This is pure hokem. 'Butch' is entirely different to str8-acting. Butch is wearing cowboy shirts with leather jackets over the top, sporting a moustache and beard et al. Its typically over-compensating for 'some' closet guys, whilst being self-expressive to some 'out' guys. You are perpetuating the facade that str8-acting guys 'fake' who they are. That doesn't stand up when we're (at least i for one) am being ourselves (myself).

    To the second part, if its regarded as insulting, than is down to your perception. I'm not saying it as a means of saying i'm a real man because i act like a straight guy. I'm saying it because i'm a gay guy who is not stereotypically gay. If OTHER gay guys take offence, its down to their perception that i'm saying there is something wrong with them, i'm not.

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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    Quote Originally Posted by mitchymo View Post
    To the second part, if its regarded as insulting, than is down to your perception. I'm not saying it as a means of saying i'm a real man because i act like a straight guy. I'm saying it because i'm a gay guy who is not stereotypically gay. If OTHER gay guys take offence, its down to their perception that i'm saying there is something wrong with them, i'm not.
    (emphasis mine)

    Therein lies the problem.
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    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    So we are to be the forefront of changing stereotypes.... or we are failed?
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
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  40. #90
    mitchymo
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    but whatever justification that's used, the fact remains that you are trying to buy "normality" by making a claim to straight as the benchmark of "normal."
    If ANYTHING, the claim would be 'masculinity is the benchmark for a man'. It has sweet fuck all to do in reality with straight and gay.

    And whilst we are talking about reinforcing stereotypes, I'M not the one kicking others down for using a term to describe a different stereotype. Str8-acting broadens the image of gay guys by expressing an obvious truth, that the traditional stereotype is not correct generally. If there wasn't a stereotype, there wouldn't exist the term str8-acting.

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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    I don't know. Are you at the forefront of something? What have you failed at? Tell us and we'll discuss.
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    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    Changing stereotypes? Not necessarily. Not happily jumping into them to get a pat on the head by straight people? For sure.

    And I will point out that the differences in the two google result pics (I have never actually searched "queer" or much gay related stuff on my computer, but nvm) is two links from years ago. One is from 2004 ffs!
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
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  43. #93
    mitchymo
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    (emphasis mine)

    Therein lies the problem.
    What problem??? Its not my problem thats for sure. I didn't create the stereotype.

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    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    Quote Originally Posted by mitchymo View Post
    If ANYTHING, the claim would be 'masculinity is the benchmark for a man'. It has sweet fuck all to do in reality with straight and gay.
    I have pointed out before, and it's worth repeating, that a 5'6 slim fem boy who can take ten dicks in one night is much more of a MAN than a pretentious gym queen who bro-hugs and burps but is too chicken to be thought of as "gay"...

    "You want me to teach you how to be less gay, so you can sleep with more dudes?"
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    Quote Originally Posted by mitchymo View Post
    If ANYTHING, the claim would be 'masculinity is the benchmark for a man'. It has sweet fuck all to do in reality with straight and gay.

    And whilst we are talking about reinforcing stereotypes, I'M not the one kicking others down for using a term to describe a different stereotype. Str8-acting broadens the image of gay guys by expressing an obvious truth, that the traditional stereotype is not correct generally. If there wasn't a stereotype, there wouldn't exist the term str8-acting.
    I'm not kicking, I'm telling, I did this too, and we are at the point in this conversation where you will either dismiss what I've said or think about it.

    your choice, what you call yourself is pretty incidental to me personally, but whatever you decide to to, you cannot get away from the fact that "straight acting," far from "broadening," the term "gay," as you seem to be telling yourself, is something we gay men made up, in order to distance ourselves from ourselves.

    There it is.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    I have pointed out before, and it's worth repeating, that a 5'6 slim fem boy who can take ten dicks in one night is much more of a MAN than a pretentious gym queen who bro-hugs and burps but is too chicken to be thought of as "gay"...

    "You want me to teach you how to be less gay, so you can sleep with more dudes?"
    When you prod the nerve........
    ATTACK OF THE LIBERAL ELITE

  46. #96
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    See you two see it as an atta boy... and I see it as a description of something desirable.

    Have either of you met a guy for as first date and found out he was way the fuck off the chart with drama queen antics?

    That is what is not desired imho... but to each his own i suppose....

    And I only showed what four results from that google page... there are multiples if you simply drill down in time using the filters... feel free... and look up http://www.seomoz.org/blog/google-personalized-search to figure out how to NOT be told what to think by google because ti doesnt have anything to do with how often you have search queer... it is tracking you and thinking for you....
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  47. #97
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    I have pointed out before, and it's worth repeating, that a 5'6 slim fem boy who can take ten dicks in one night is much more of a MAN than a pretentious gym queen who bro-hugs and burps but is too chicken to be thought of as "gay"...

    "You want me to teach you how to be less gay, so you can sleep with more dudes?"
    That's not more manly that is just pure slut... and you can keep him
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  48. #98
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    Umm, what was this thread about again? Oh, yeah, people losing it because their candidate didn't win...

    As to the guy in Key West. What makes me sad is the impact his suicide must have on his partner, friends and family. Unless there's more to the story since his partner was out with friends whilst the deed was done. Sad on so many levels...

  49. #99
    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    That's not more manly that is just pure slut... and you can keep him
    Gladly ^_^

    But to respond to both your posts:

    1. The biggest sluts I've ever met have been straight, so by your prude definition, the 5'6 fem boy is straight-acting.
    2. The biggest drama queens I've ever met have been straight as well. If you associate drama queeniness with high-pitched voices and excessive wrist movement, that's your own homophobia, and you're responsible for it.

    And to answer your question - I haven't had that situation ever. I have however had a situation of "Oh my god, you are stiff as a shovel, and about as interesting. Why am I wasting my time with you?"
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  50. #100
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Romney supporters attempt murder and commit suicide over Obama win

    LOL... well you need to open your aperture if your ingratiating doormats -- lol

    I associate drama queens with the girl or guy who has to get in everyone's face, who has to be the center of attention and who cant hold their liquor typically...
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


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