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Thread: Obama Tells Progressives He Won't Budge On Bush Tax Cuts

      
   
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    Re: Obama Tells Progressives He Won't Budge On Bush Tax Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by BostonPirate View Post
    The House has the responsibility to produce a bill that will get the senate's majority vote, and the president's signature. The point of legislation is not to make bills that doomed to fail, it is to create a bill that can pass all the OTHER parts of the government.
    . . . .
    If you can't manage the process of legislation, then you need to not be in charge of legislating.
    That's a good point. The responsibility of Congress is to actually legislate, not to merely pile up binders full of bills.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  2. #52

    Re: Obama Tells Progressives He Won't Budge On Bush Tax Cuts

    No, clearly the framers of the Consttution intended that the House would lead on revenue, not the Senate or the President. It is not the duty of the House to follow the Senate nor to rubber stamp profligate spending.

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    Re: Obama Tells Progressives He Won't Budge On Bush Tax Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by BostonPirate View Post





    The House has the responsibility to produce a bill that will get the senate's majority vote, and the president's signature. The point of legislation is not to make bills that doomed to fail, it is to create a bill that can pass all the OTHER parts of the government.





    They have no such obligation. The objective of our legislative system is not to facilitate legislation but to prevent it in keeping with the founders intent of limited government. Think about all the ways legislation can be derailed. That's not by accident.

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    Re: Obama Tells Progressives He Won't Budge On Bush Tax Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    That's a good point. The responsibility of Congress is to actually legislate, not to merely pile up binders full of bills.
    right

    Legislators legislate. When they convince their minions that their job as legislators is to NOT legislate then you KNOW how pathetic both they, and the rank and file GOP members of the party of Mud are.
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    Re: Obama Tells Progressives He Won't Budge On Bush Tax Cuts

    Article I of the Constitution states "all legislative powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the United States, which shall consist of a Senate and a House of Representatives." The House and Senate are equal partners in the legislative process—legislation cannot be enacted without the consent of both chambers. However, the Constitution grants each chamber some unique powers. The Senate ratifies treaties and approves presidential appointments while the House initiates revenue-raising bills. The House initiates impeachment cases, while the Senate decides impeachment cases
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Congress

    I don't have time to look for a better source, but this is how I understood the role of the Legislative Branch.

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    Re: Obama Tells Progressives He Won't Budge On Bush Tax Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Congress

    I don't have time to look for a better source, but this is how I understood the role of the Legislative Branch.
    Your correct. They are equal partners. There is no obligation for one house to do something to the satisfaction of the other. That's why there are conference committees to work out differences in bills. But you have to actually pass something first in order to get to conference.

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    Re: Obama Tells Progressives He Won't Budge On Bush Tax Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by BostonPirate View Post
    right

    Legislators legislate. When they convince their minions that their job as legislators is to NOT legislate then you KNOW how pathetic both they, and the rank and file GOP members of the party of Mud are.

    More hypocrisy? No budget from the dems again next year. That'll be four years without a budget resolution!

    http://thehill.com/blogs/on-the-mone...-doing-budget-

    What was that about their obligation to legislate? Your argument rings just a bit hollow.

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    Re: Obama Tells Progressives He Won't Budge On Bush Tax Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by jackoroe View Post
    More hypocrisy? No budget from the dems again next year. That'll be four years without a budget resolution!

    http://thehill.com/blogs/on-the-mone...-doing-budget-

    What was that about their obligation to legislate? Your argument rings just a bit hollow.
    How can the dems pass a budget RESOLUTION when the GOP controlled house wont pass a BILL that the constitution states MUST originate from them.

    They can't even get the senate to consider some of their fucked up legislation because they pass a bill for budget and add abortion legislation onto it, to insure that the president will never sign it.

    The GOP is going to be left holding this bag of shit. The polls state it, and the last election indicate it. If the rethugs of the Mud party can't get their act together on this and soon, they are going to get their happy asses heaved out in two years.

    The voters are just getting warmed up.
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    Re: Obama Tells Progressives He Won't Budge On Bush Tax Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by jackoroe View Post
    Your correct. They are equal partners. There is no obligation for one house to do something to the satisfaction of the other. That's why there are conference committees to work out differences in bills. But you have to actually pass something first in order to get to conference.
    You didn't read the whole thing....

    while the House initiates revenue-raising bills.

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    Re: Obama Tells Progressives He Won't Budge On Bush Tax Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by BostonPirate View Post
    How can the dems pass a budget RESOLUTION when the GOP controlled house wont pass a BILL that the constitution states MUST originate from them.

    They can't even get the senate to consider some of their fucked up legislation because they pass a bill for budget and add abortion legislation onto it, to insure that the president will never sign it.

    The GOP is going to be left holding this bag of shit. The polls state it, and the last election indicate it. If the rethugs of the Mud party can't get their act together on this and soon, they are going to get their happy asses heaved out in two years.

    The voters are just getting warmed up.
    Do a little research. The house has passed a budget every year. They fulfilled their Constitutional obligation. The Senate, not so much.

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    Re: Obama Tells Progressives He Won't Budge On Bush Tax Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    You didn't read the whole thing....

    while the House initiates revenue-raising bills.
    Yes I did and so what?

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    Re: Obama Tells Progressives He Won't Budge On Bush Tax Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by jackoroe View Post
    Do a little research. The house has passed a budget every year. They fulfilled their Constitutional obligation. The Senate, not so much.
    Do you really want me to list all the riders that they added in to insure the Senate would never take the bill up for consideration?

    Shall we delve into abortionland, rape legislation, repeal ACA terriory et al?

    The house of Reps has been building bills designed to NOT pass, and the obstruction that THIS behavior caused enraged the electorate to the point of Throwing Romney and Ryan, and a host of senators out on their happy asses. If the House had not been gerrymandered they would have lost it, as they lost the popular vote.

    So this is it.

    Obama won the election with orders from all of us to stop all of THIS.

    He has no re elections to think of now. Meet Obama 2.0. You guys need to adapt or you are going to give the whole government to the Dems in Obama's last two years in office.

    Unbridled power awaits Obama, and the GOP is still mindlessly playing his political long game.

    What a bunch of chumps.
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    Re: Obama Tells Progressives He Won't Budge On Bush Tax Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by BostonPirate View Post
    Do you really want me to list all the riders that they added in to insure the Senate would never take the bill up for consideration?

    Shall we delve into abortionland, rape legislation, repeal ACA terriory et al?

    The house of Reps has been building bills designed to NOT pass, and the obstruction that THIS behavior caused enraged the electorate to the point of Throwing Romney and Ryan, and a host of senators out on their happy asses. If the House had not been gerrymandered they would have lost it, as they lost the popular vote.

    So this is it.

    Obama won the election with orders from all of us to stop all of THIS.

    He has no re elections to think of now. Meet Obama 2.0. You guys need to adapt or you are going to give the whole government to the Dems in Obama's last two years in office.

    Unbridled power awaits Obama, and the GOP is still mindlessly playing his political long game.

    What a bunch of chumps.

    So pass a fucking budget without the riders and amendments and send it off to committee. What's so fucking difficult about that?! Quit being a partisan for a minute and look objectively at the budget process.

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    Re: Obama Tells Progressives He Won't Budge On Bush Tax Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by jackoroe View Post
    So pass a fucking budget without the riders and amendments and send it off to committee. What's so fucking difficult about that?! Quit being a partisan for a minute and look objectively at the budget process.
    WHAT????

    That is a tortured logic loop you have there, buddy.

    The GOp is peachy for putting the shit in the bill, but the Dems are bad for not removing the shit? Have we talked about the filibuster in congress?

    Do you think you can just change the bill in the senate without having it filibustered? Do you really want me to make THAT list in this thread???????

    So how do you change the bill in the house and avoid the GOP filibuster? Those asshats filibuster jobs bills for returning veterans of the aghanistan war, just for fun.

    of course.... We DID kick brown to the curb for it, as a strong warning to ALL OF THIS that the GOP is doing.

    America is no longer buying a ticket on the GOP clown car ride. Abandoned on the side of the road.
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    Re: Obama Tells Progressives He Won't Budge On Bush Tax Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by jackoroe View Post
    Yes I did and so what?

    This explixitly means that it is the House that initiates the legislation...not just sits there and blocks it per your earlier post.

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    Re: Obama Tells Progressives He Won't Budge On Bush Tax Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    No, clearly the framers of the Consttution intended that the House would lead on revenue, not the Senate or the President. It is not the duty of the House to follow the Senate nor to rubber stamp profligate spending.
    The country operates under the Constitution, not the ARticles of Confederation. Read the constitution again please.

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    Re: Obama Tells Progressives He Won't Budge On Bush Tax Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by jackoroe View Post
    More hypocrisy? No budget from the dems again next year. That'll be four years without a budget resolution!

    http://thehill.com/blogs/on-the-mone...-doing-budget-

    What was that about their obligation to legislate? Your argument rings just a bit hollow.
    Since when have the Democrats controlled the House, from which all bills about spending are to originate?

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Obama Tells Progressives He Won't Budge On Bush Tax Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by jackoroe View Post
    So pass a fucking budget without the riders and amendments and send it off to committee. What's so fucking difficult about that?! Quit being a partisan for a minute and look objectively at the budget process.
    How is the Senate supposed to pass a budget when budget bills are supposed to originate in the House? All the Senate can do is vote on what the House has passed.

    By passing only bills that the Senate isn't even going to look at, the House Republicans are in violation of their oaths of office. Too bad Alfie isn't around any longer to ask:

    WHY DO THEY HATE AMERICA?

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Obama Tells Progressives He Won't Budge On Bush Tax Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by jackoroe View Post
    Do a little research. The house has passed a budget every year. They fulfilled their Constitutional obligation. The Senate, not so much.
    C-O-M-P-R-O-M-I-S-E

    That is the magic word say it slowly... republicans are finally willing after being rejected by America ... finally willing to compromise. Don't tell me you pay this close attention and didn't realize that the GOP was demanding their budget or the highway for the last three year so smug asshats in the GOP could claim no democratic budget passed. It is in no way genuine.

    This year you will see a congress that actually works with the other side of the two party system and hammers our a spending plan.... and then passes it... either that or the rather austere version they agreed to if they continued to fight like children will go into effect.... what is that thingy we keep calling the fiscal cliff? Is it a plan on how we will spend and how much sometimes referred to as a budget?

    I sincerely hope BHO is serious and takes the GOP right off the fucking cliff and then they will gladly sign a tax increase for millionaires.....
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    Re: Obama Tells Progressives He Won't Budge On Bush Tax Cuts

    Good. He shouldn't. They should be allowed to expire in full, but the middle class can't exactly afford to have their taxes raised at this point, so the expiration of the upper tier is the only option. They also need a new (or several) top tiers for the ultra wealthy. (I would also say that individual trusts, like Romney's, need to be taxed if they're over a certain amount as well)

  21. #71
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    Re: Obama Tells Progressives He Won't Budge On Bush Tax Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by JB3 View Post
    Good. He shouldn't. They should be allowed to expire in full, but the middle class can't exactly afford to have their taxes raised at this point, so the expiration of the upper tier is the only option. They also need a new (or several) top tiers for the ultra wealthy. (I would also say that individual trusts, like Romney's, need to be taxed if they're over a certain amount as well)
    One of those times I do agree with you... lets hope that can happen. It'll cover the deficits this country is facing.

  22. #72

    Re: Obama Tells Progressives He Won't Budge On Bush Tax Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by JB3 View Post
    Good. He shouldn't. They should be allowed to expire in full, but the middle class can't exactly afford to have their taxes raised at this point, so the expiration of the upper tier is the only option. They also need a new (or several) top tiers for the ultra wealthy. (I would also say that individual trusts, like Romney's, need to be taxed if they're over a certain amount as well)
    Raise them all -- raise taxes even higher on the wealthy -- the really rich ones have ways of getting around any increase anyway.
    "That’s the good thing about being president. I can do whatever I want.” Barack Obama, 2-10-14

  23. #73

    Re: Obama Tells Progressives He Won't Budge On Bush Tax Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    One of those times I do agree with you... lets hope that can happen. It'll cover the deficits this country is facing.
    Again -- you think that eliminating the Bush/Obama tax cuts on the rich would take care of our problems.

    It's a drop of water from an eye-dropper into a 50 gallon barrel.
    "That’s the good thing about being president. I can do whatever I want.” Barack Obama, 2-10-14

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    Re: Obama Tells Progressives He Won't Budge On Bush Tax Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Again -- you think that eliminating the Bush/Obama tax cuts on the rich would take care of our problems.

    It's a drop of water from an eye-dropper into a 50 gallon barrel.
    If they let all the Bush tax cuts expire and raised the individual exemption by $2000, it would be 15% of the deficit. That's not inconsiderable. I forget the amount, but if a surtax on incomes above $500k were added, we could get 25% of the deficit. That's far more than a "drop... into a 50 gallon barrel".

    Raise the taxes that way. Make enough cuts to cut another 50% of the deficit. Then implement a growth freeze on all departments. In about five years we'll be back to surpluses -- and that will be the time for a "no new spending" bill until the debt is paid. And along the way, slowly eliminate corporate welfare and lower corporate taxes to balance it, to the point of dropping taxes on (real) small businesses to zero.

    Then we'd see some prosperity.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Obama Tells Progressives He Won't Budge On Bush Tax Cuts

    If capital gains were treated as normal income, we would have a HUGE revenue boost.
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    We're gonna sit down and have ourselves a drink! And after we're done - after *I'm* done, you can run upstairs and take whichever one of them little pills makes you feel the best~Dolores Claiborne

  26. #76

    Re: Obama Tells Progressives He Won't Budge On Bush Tax Cuts

    Why not do away with all deductions and special deals -- you pay current rate taxes on your income -- no what where that income comes from -- democrats as well as republicans would never go for that.
    "That’s the good thing about being president. I can do whatever I want.” Barack Obama, 2-10-14

  27. #77
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    Re: Obama Tells Progressives He Won't Budge On Bush Tax Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Again -- you think that eliminating the Bush/Obama tax cuts on the rich would take care of our problems.

    It's a drop of water from an eye-dropper into a 50 gallon barrel.
    Actually it would cover much of the budgetary shortfalls.

    And your analogy is wrong and not supported either way. There has to be spending cuts... like cutting the military. Cutting education and food stamps is just despicable.

  28. #78

    Re: Obama Tells Progressives He Won't Budge On Bush Tax Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    Actually it would cover much of the budgetary shortfalls.

    And your analogy is wrong and not supported either way. There has to be spending cuts... like cutting the military. Cutting education and food stamps is just despicable.
    Nonsense. Our budgetary shortfall, i.e. deficit, is a trillion a year. Eliminating the Bush tax cuts on those rich Americans you hate so much would not begin too eliminate the deficit and would just inspire Hussein to spend more. Food stamps should be limited to citizens.

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    Re: Obama Tells Progressives He Won't Budge On Bush Tax Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Why not do away with all deductions and special deals -- you pay current rate taxes on your income -- no what where that income comes from -- democrats as well as republicans would never go for that.
    That's because they want the nation bankrupt. Politicians have to be judged by their actions, and the actions of House Republicans and Senate Democrats show that they are in love with debt.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Obama Tells Progressives He Won't Budge On Bush Tax Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Nonsense. Our budgetary shortfall, i.e. deficit, is a trillion a year. Eliminating the Bush tax cuts on those rich Americans you hate so much would not begin too eliminate the deficit and would just inspire Hussein to spend more. Food stamps should be limited to citizens.
    Last edited by Kulindahr; November 16th, 2012 at 06:48 PM.

  31. #81
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    Re: Obama Tells Progressives He Won't Budge On Bush Tax Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Nonsense. Our budgetary shortfall, i.e. deficit, is a trillion a year. Eliminating the Bush tax cuts on those rich Americans you hate so much would not begin too eliminate the deficit and would just inspire Hussein to spend more. Food stamps should be limited to citizens.
    ERRR Wrong. The Bush tax cuts are more than that... if income tax and capital gains tax were both made the same it would eliminate much short fall. And blaming social programs again I see? Wrong again. Social programs are a fraction what this country spends on the military, corporate subsidies and multi-trillion dollar tax cuts for the rich.

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    Re: Obama Tells Progressives He Won't Budge On Bush Tax Cuts

    The bottom line with Obama was to \raise taxs to then be dealing with a realistic bottom line for basing how they would effect cuts.

    the cool thing is that McConnell has already conceded that revenue is on the table.... Boehner has already said so as well... looks like taxes are going up and Obama is going to win the first round of the new term....

    Now if they can move onto Immigration reform since republicans feel they need that to regain a party base then it is high time to figure out that mess as well.
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    Re: Obama Tells Progressives He Won't Budge On Bush Tax Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    ERRR Wrong. The Bush tax cuts are more than that... if income tax and capital gains tax were both made the same it would eliminate much short fall. And blaming social programs again I see? Wrong again. Social programs are a fraction what this country spends on the military, corporate subsidies and multi-trillion dollar tax cuts for the rich.
    Can't find a cite at the moment, but I recall a figure of ~40% of the deficit if the Bush tax cuts were dropped and all sources of income were treated the same.

    Add a surtax on incomes of $500k or more and we could do the job half with taxes and half with spending cuts.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  34. #84
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Obama Tells Progressives He Won't Budge On Bush Tax Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Can't find a cite at the moment, but I recall a figure of ~40% of the deficit if the Bush tax cuts were dropped and all sources of income were treated the same.

    Add a surtax on incomes of $500k or more and we could do the job half with taxes and half with spending cuts.
    I'm not sure if this is what you're quite looking for:

    http://crooksandliars.com/jon-perr/b...s-and-deficits



    But it's a good enough representation of how much the Bush tax cuts cost this country... republicans like to downplay and say "well social programs cost more!!!"...

    Various sources have called for the expiration of these tax cuts...

    http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/...ax-cuts-expire

    I'm sure something can be worked out for the middle class, but the upper 5% shouldn't be getting such major tax breaks.

  35. #85
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    Re: Obama Tells Progressives He Won't Budge On Bush Tax Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    I'm not sure if this is what you're quite looking for:

    http://crooksandliars.com/jon-perr/b...s-and-deficits



    But it's a good enough representation of how much the Bush tax cuts cost this country... republicans like to downplay and say "well social programs cost more!!!"...

    Various sources have called for the expiration of these tax cuts...

    http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/...ax-cuts-expire

    I'm sure something can be worked out for the middle class, but the upper 5% shouldn't be getting such major tax breaks.
    Add the surtax on incomes over $500k, and then raise the individual exemption by $2k, and we'd have a surplus (the $2k exemption increase would cover the middle class).

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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