Obama to Gays: Gotcha

[Benvolio]

Having garnered most of the gay vote for his last election, Obama not longer needs us. Now he says he will not push for gay marriage, as it is a matter for the states.http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Governm...is-Second-Term
Yeah, yeah, its Breitbart, but this time you might want to read it.
No I didn't go away, opinterph banned me because I said that immigrants, like other humans, create sewage and garbage as well as other pollution.

[mitchymo]

A politician chopping and changing to suit their political agenda, unheard of.

What is clear, is that it doesn't matter what Obama thinks as an individual, he has portrayed aptly, that the Democratic party is the party which best serve the interests of the gay community.

[rareboy]

"First of all, I've been very clear about my belief that same-sex couple have to be treated before the eyes of the law the same way as heterosexual couples. I think that's the right thing to do. It's based on my personal experience, seeing loving couples who are committed to each other, raising kids and are just outstanding people," he told Sway. "And I was supportive of civil unions, but they taught me, if you're using different words, if you're somehow singling them out, they don't feel true equality.

"But what I've also said is, historically, marriages have been defined at the state level. And there's a conversation going on ... there's some states that are still having the debate. And I think for us to try to legislate federally into this is probably the wrong way to go," Obama continued. "The courts are going to be examining these issues. I've stood up and said I'm opposed to the so-called Defense of Marriage Act ... I've said that's wrong, [and] there are a couple of cases that are working their way through the courts, and my expectation is that Defense of Marriage Act will be overturned. But, ultimately, I believe that if we have that conversation at the state level, the evolution that's taking place in this country will get us to a place where we are going to be recognizing everybody fairly."

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/169...equality.jhtml

What he actually said.

[Sausy]

It doesn't speak well of Obama's real character....took a back seat role in Don't Ask, Don't Tell repeal leaving the heavy lifting to other people as well. However as currently constituted the Democrats are far ahead of the GOP in gay rights support...a major reason while I did not vote this time for Obama I voted for Gary Johnson and the Libertarian line and not Romney and the GOP. Obama may well throw us under the bus but the most of the GOP base would delightedly drive that bus over us and roll it back and forth for good measure.

[palbert]

Benvolio and Breitbart. Oka-a-a-a-y-y-y.

[Laufey]

Did he ever claim he would legalize gay marriage nationwide?

[Lostlover]

What's with people thinking the president is a dictator? I remember some on here wanting Obama to tell Eric Holder to stop upholding the law (read: DADT). Presidents aren't supposed to micromanage and definitely not micromanage states and the Department of Justice.

Accept it! There are limits to what the president should and can do.

Considering Bart wrote this editorial (since it's opinion-based), it looks like conservatives still believe the DoJ is a political arm of the president. And, liberals here can be repulsed by Obama leaving gay marriage to the states and then decry Bush for having his attorney general fire liberal prosecutors at the DoJ.

[Sausy]

He's had an interesting"evolution"....strong supporter of marriage equality running for the Illinois Senate...backtracked when going for the US Senate to support only for civil unions and struggled with the marriage concept clear until last summer, I believe just around the time of the North Carolina vote that constitutionally there banned marriage AND civil unions. Then for full marriage though it should go through the states...at least I think that was his last position, he's been so clearly unclear over the past decade and a half changing to the politically expedient side. No portrait in courage in anything really of true leadership for Obama...he wades in carefully....lets Congress write the rules for his health care plan...he is on the right side of the issue now but even then what if states vote marriage equality down? AND civil unions? Obama really is for Obama, let others take care of the rest.

That said, he's STILL light years from the GOP which at best tolerates those who keep one for in the closet so the conservative agenda goes forward. Sad because there once was much more diversity in the GOP...strong moderate/libertarian streak. Not anymore....they're being pushed out by the religious right cultural reactionaries.Obama is an opportunist but the GOP are increasingly malign bastards.

[medic1]

Having garnered most of the gay vote for his last election, Obama not longer needs us. Now he says he will not push for gay marriage, as it is a matter for the states.http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Governm...is-Second-Term
Yeah, yeah, its Breitbart, but this time you might want to read it.
No I didn't go away, opinterph banned me because I said that immigrants, like other humans, create sewage and garbage as well as other pollution.

Be honest ! did you say immigrants create sewage and garbage as well as other pollution , or did you say immigrants like other humans ?

I cannot see any MOD banning anyone for saying everyone .

[EastMed]

Welcome back, Benvolio.
Your concern on the prospects for gay marriage legislation is deeply encouraging.

[FuryOfFirestorm]

Having garnered most of the gay vote for his last election, Obama not longer needs us. Now he says he will not push for gay marriage, as it is a matter for the states.http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Governm...is-Second-Term
Yeah, yeah, its Breitbart, but this time you might want to read it.
No I didn't go away, opinterph banned me because I said that immigrants, like other humans, create sewage and garbage as well as other pollution.

Tsk tsk, tomorrow is going to be a traumatic experience for Democrats when the Romney landslide hits. The Democrat media which has promoted Obama so agressively has misled you about the polls....

Say hi to Dean Chambers for me and Nate Silver, OK?

BTW - Any Breitbart writers' interpretation on what Obama thinks/does is going to be more skewed than Dean Chamber's polling numbers.

[JayHawk]

No the screaming me-me's get their undies in a twist when Obama overrides federal law and grants a reprieve from deportation while they at the same time wanna claim he should just decree same sex marriage legal. These guys wouldn't last five seconds in the political world. Why would Obama spend a bunch of political capitol on DADT when it was going the way he wanted? One can easily look to the courts and see that gay marriage is going to stand. so why fight over it?

This is funny.

[Tengilethos]

Several gay-rights cases are before the Supreme Court, our side argues that DOMA is unconstitutional because the definition of marriage is a matter of the states. If we work under this assumption, then there is clearly not much Obama can do to help gay marriage federally, the fight must be won in every single state one (or four) at a time. Even if the SC finds a constitutional right to gay marriage (which I doubt, perhaps in 30 years when 40 states have gay marriage, but not know), then it still has nothing to do with Obama. Only DOMA and ENDA remain. The President instructed the Department of Justice to stop defending DOMA, what else do you want? Repealing DOMA or enacting ENDA with the current Republican majority in the House? Tell your party to stop hating gays, Benvolio, and we can discuss Obamas shortcomings (in regards to gay rights).

[JayHawk]

Oh damn and I didnt even know Teng was a fan of wrestling much less a star....... BAM!!!

[opinterph]

Mr. Bigelow’s article was published on November 11 and suggests that because the President has now won reelection, he no longer needs the support of the gay community.

Barack Obama isn’t exactly famous for his loyalty; he has a history of jettisoning people once they’ve outlived their usefulness to him. This time, it’s the gay community.

The article mentions the President’s remarks from “Friday.” Without further reference, readers will naturally assume that this information is being reported from the Friday previous to the article’s publication, eh?

On Friday, Obama told an MTV audience …

Obama continued on Friday …

Mr. Bigelow links to an Examiner article dated October 27 which also doesn’t make clear when the President made the remarks.


So when did this happen?

Having garnered most of the gay vote for his last election, Obama not longer needs us. Now he says …

White House Schedule - October 26, 2012:

5:00 PM
The President is interviewed by Sway Calloway of MTV

Gotcha, indeed.

[GiancarloC]

Wow ... he's back.

Where is Obama throwing us under the bus? IF one were to actually READ what he said... he would repeal the "Defense of Marriage Act" which could remove a significant roadblock. With the votes in Maine, Maryland and Washington legalizing same sex marriage that is the route to take. At the state level. Here in California, we are going to remove Prop 8 through legal means.

What are Obama's shortcomings? Benvolio supports the republican party, and they made it in their mission in this election to oppose same sex marriage. It wasn't their primary issue this election, but it was there. And Paul Ryan is a huge opponent to the rights of same sex couples. This thread is embarrassingly false. Paul Ryan is vehemently anti-gay and opposed every piece of legislation regarding equal rights that went to him. Look at his fucking record!

And immigrants create sewage and waste? As compared to big businesses that pollute the environment and dump high levels of sewage and waste into reservoirs?

And what happened to those predictions, Benvolio? Romney landslide huh?

[vulgar_newcomer]

Benvolio continues to be a prime example of how the extreme right entertainment network operates and how the followers swallow it all (most likely will also make chain emails that will be spammed to their address book for the next 4 yrs). After getting blasted last week in the election with all the lies and bs they had been pushing ignoring fact checkers, and polls and only fooling the other non-critical thinkers it doesn't appear any lesson was learned. There will be no change until the base demographic's era fades into the graveyard. They believe what they believe.

Benvolio it wouldn't have mattered if President Obama ever said he was in favor of gay marriage or not (but we know he did as a fact). The people you are trying to convince here would have voted for the President regardless.
No one is foolish to believe your screwed up right wing blog or any other media from them even before they bombed out with lies last week, it was widespread big time .

No matter what you believe the Democrat party is light years above anything the flat earth knuckle dragging angry old Pentecostal religious Republicans offer to Gays.

[rareboy]

Mr. Bigelow’s article was published on November 11 and suggests that because the President has now won reelection, he no longer needs the support of the gay community.



The article mentions the President’s remarks from “Friday.” Without further reference, readers will naturally assume that this information is being reported from the Friday previous to the article’s publication, eh?



Mr. Bigelow links to an Examiner article dated October 27 which also doesn’t make clear when the President made the remarks.


So when did this happen?

White House Schedule - October 26, 2012:

Gotcha, indeed.

I wondered if anyone would go to the MTV site and notice the date.

And again Benvolio, this is what he said:

"First of all, I've been very clear about my belief that same-sex couple have to be treated before the eyes of the law the same way as heterosexual couples. I think that's the right thing to do. It's based on my personal experience, seeing loving couples who are committed to each other, raising kids and are just outstanding people," he told Sway. "And I was supportive of civil unions, but they taught me, if you're using different words, if you're somehow singling them out, they don't feel true equality.

"But what I've also said is, historically, marriages have been defined at the state level. And there's a conversation going on ... there's some states that are still having the debate. And I think for us to try to legislate federally into this is probably the wrong way to go," Obama continued. "The courts are going to be examining these issues. I've stood up and said I'm opposed to the so-called Defense of Marriage Act ... I've said that's wrong, [and] there are a couple of cases that are working their way through the courts, and my expectation is that Defense of Marriage Act will be overturned. But, ultimately, I believe that if we have that conversation at the state level, the evolution that's taking place in this country will get us to a place where we are going to be recognizing everybody fairly."

[GiancarloC]

I wondered if anyone would go to the MTV site and notice the date.

And again Benvolio, this is what he said:

Ouch... Benvolio had his own gotcha moment. Two of them in a week... one time on election day and one time with getting his "facts" wrong. This whole thread is just sheer desperation. Brietbarf doesn't cite articles properly either.

I still want an explanation for this quote: Tsk tsk, tomorrow is going to be a traumatic experience for Democrats when the Romney landslide hits. The Democrat media which has promoted Obama so agressively has misled you about the polls....

It's making me laugh just looking at it. I wonder if republicans are recovering from their traumatic experience on Nov 6th lol.

[BostonPirate]

So this was one more lying dive bomb on this forum by Benvolio, meant to mislead the gay community about something that the president said.

Thank you, Opinterph for doing the legwork on Benvolio's links.

I will excuse myself from welcoming him back. I am all for freedom of speech, but when it is consistently misleading and meant to cause disruption of the forum, I think he needs to prove he is willing to respect others here or go back from whence he came.

Back to the pretend topic here?

The nation put down the idea that Gay marriage is unnaceptable this election, and we could not have gotten there without the presidents support of our rights. To pretend otherwise is obnoxiously dishonest.

[TX-Beau]

Oh come now where is your charity. Welcome back Ben, are you enjoying your Romney landslide?

[eastofeden]

I don't understand...wasnt' this exactly what he said when he "evolved" on the issue?

[TX-Beau]

The original lie came from a right wing propaganda manufactory obviously flailing in the wake of massive defeat, and was posted by a credulous (or not) person who seems to have no critical thinking.

Of course it could be a ruse and they both are right wing propaganda manufactories.

[maxpowr9]

National Inquirer has more credibility than Breitbart.

[rareboy]

^^I can't figure it out, to be honest, TX-Beau

I honestly thought that BV was a fringe poli-op troll posting incendiary stuff about immigrants and absurdly optimistic posts about the Romney/Ryan chances of success......but apparently it is possible that there is actually a 'real' avatar out there that not only believes the nonsense that the far right wing nutbars out there are saying and writing...he's delighted to share it with all of us here as well.

[RazorzEdge88]

Obama's done a magnificent job on gay rights. I'm very proud of him on this front.

[Rolyo85]

After the devastating Romney landslide, now the gay community suffers another major blow, as turncloak Barack Obama gives us the finger on gay rights This is a sad month... in Bizzaro Land.

[TX-Beau]

...Ahem, That's Bizzaro WORLD..

In the Bizarro world of "Htrae" ("Earth" spelled backwards), society is ruled by the Bizarro Code which states "Us do opposite of all Earthly things! Us hate beauty! Us love ugliness! Is big crime to make anything perfect on Bizarro World!"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bizarro_World

[Rolyo85]

I am sorry. I have nothing but contemptuous indifference for anything that comes from DC ^_^

[rareboy]

Having garnered most of the gay vote for his last election, Obama not longer needs us. Now he says he will not push for gay marriage, as it is a matter for the states.http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Governm...is-Second-Term
Yeah, yeah, its Breitbart, but this time you might want to read it.
No I didn't go away, opinterph banned me because I said that immigrants, like other humans, create sewage and garbage as well as other pollution.

I think this is most pitiable part of the OP.

What a tragedy that the maggots keep crawling out of his corrupted corpse.

[TX-Beau]

I know as if that was actually going to happen. Common sense would seem to dictate that Ben KNOWS no one here is going to bother with that, so why keep using it?

Well either that is the only place he can find tales lurid enough to justify his own extreme hatred of Obama, or he is part of the machine in here on some kind of orders?

If he really believes that crap it still doesn't answer why he's posting it here when he could go to any number of boards located in the Pub alternate universe and be loved to pieces (so long as he doesn't mention that pesky gay thing - if in fact he is a gay man.)

Why that? Why here? Is there a messiah complex involved? Has cash exchanged hands, and who is that lady in the red dress?

[GiancarloC]

I think this is most pitiable part of the OP.

What a tragedy that the maggots keep crawling out of his corrupted corpse.

Too bad when Brietbart dropped dead from all the stress he gave himself his website didn't go to the grave with him.

The OP can't deal with the massive loss his party experienced last week.

[Kulindahr]

Oh come now where is your charity. Welcome back Ben, are you enjoying your Romney landslide?

"Romney Landslide"....

That should be an ice cream flavor: pistachio with lima beams, soy chips, and bullshit swirled throughout.

[Ninja108]

Anything that comes from Brietbart's website is suspect. And no matter what,I'd take Obama over Romney. He might have flipflopped on other issues but he didn't need to when it came to LGBT rights. He is and always will be a bigot.

[TheFireGod]

Better than the GOP platform promising to NOT federally recognize civil unions. Even Bush didnt go that far but then again, he is now not conservative enough for the Republicans.

[chance1]

Benvolio and Breitbart. Oka-a-a-a-y-y-y.

Care to join ?

Maybe Joe Biden needs to go on Meet The Press and speak FOR the President

Again

[GiancarloC]

More animal farm stuff? This poster posted derogatory comments about minorities, including Latinos... and not a peep from the right wingers on here. Not new?

Obama supports same sex marriage. Deal with it. I know the republican party cannot because of their base... sheesh... they can't even support civil unions. Neither Romney or Ryan even supported civil unions. Ryan was anti-gay everything.

[JustMe5]

I think some of you need to look into the percentage of gays who voted for McCain in the 2008 election. It was something like 28%. Romney's popular vote total was roughly around the same as McCain's, so I would guess that the percentage of gay votes for Romney was about the same as that for McCain.

The point being, it's silly to assume that all gay voters are Democrats by default. There are lots of different reasons why gay voters would choose a Republican candidate over a Democrat, since there are lots of issues out there to consider when casting a ballot.

[GiancarloC]

I think some of you need to look into the percentage of gays who voted for McCain in the 2008 election. It was something like 28%. Romney's popular vote total was roughly around the same as McCain's, so I would guess that the percentage of gay votes for Romney was about the same as that for McCain.

So?

http://www.boston.com/lifestyle/blog..._supporte.html

And that number isn't even close to 28% anymore.

Close to 90% of Gay voters supported Barack Obama according to several polls. 6% of gay voters went for Romney. That's pathetically low. And 4% voted for other candidates like Johnson and Stein.

This poll is based on an outstanding sample of 6,625 and was done on election day. Of course it counts those who are openly gay... not the republican conservative closet cases who won't admit they are gay.

The point being, it's silly to assume that all gay voters are Democrats by default. There are lots of different reasons why gay voters would choose a Republican candidate over a Democrat, since there are lots of issues out there to consider when casting a ballot.

Like what? Economic reasons? The republicans don't have an economic plan and were only promising a return to the Bush years.

[GiancarloC]

Rolyo, there is more to me than being gay TOO... and I still wouldn't vote republican. That's what I usually say when they post that strawman excuse.

[Rolyo85]

Of course there's more to you. Or to me. Or to any of us. We'd be a sad excuse for human beings if ALL there was to us was being gay. However, being gay is a huge part of who we are and it is the ONLY thing the Religious Right and the GOP sees about us. To ignore that because "you're not a single issue voter" is a pathetic excuse, and I refuse to accept it. I absolutely think that no gay man who is proud of who he is, aware of what LGBTs face on a daily basis in America and cares even a little bit about gay teens growing up in hostile environments, would ever vote Republican in the current political environment.

[JustMe5]

And that number isn't even close to 28% anymore.

You're basing your assumption on a poll. Does anyone have a link to an actual percentage of gay voters who supported Romney?

[GiancarloC]

You're basing your assumption on a poll. Does anyone have a link to an actual percentage of gay voters who supported Romney?

That's an exit poll. That was done on election day. It won't be 100% accurate, but the margin of error is within 4%. And yes, it is an actual percentage.

I can say with strong confidence the poll is reasonably close.

Of course it's only counting those who are open about their sexuality.

WHat's the issue? Can't deal with facts?

[CTF]

One of my favorite questions that I ever heard asked is, "What do you think? What do you know? And What can you prove?"

With the last question being the distinction.

Let's stick with that one shall we?

[ReadyWithReadyWit]

Having garnered most of the gay vote for his last election, Obama not longer needs us. Now he says he will not push for gay marriage, as it is a matter for the states.http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Governm...is-Second-Term
Yeah, yeah, its Breitbart, but this time you might want to read it.
No I didn't go away, opinterph banned me because I said that immigrants, like other humans, create sewage and garbage as well as other pollution.

Welcome back, Ben. Glad your first new thread could be on something so enlightening, uniting, and non-trollish...

[gewhite3]

I guess republicans have to have something to do after their big cluster fuck of an election.

[JustMe5]

WHat's the issue? Can't deal with facts?

I like to get political facts and figures when they come from organizations that announce them, as was the case with the 2008 gay voting percentage. I'll wait until the announcement is made for this year's election.

[JayHawk]

Benvolio continues to be a prime example of how the extreme right entertainment network operates and how the followers swallow it all (most likely will also make chain emails that will be spammed to their address book for the next 4 yrs). After getting blasted last week in the election with all the lies and bs they had been pushing ignoring fact checkers, and polls and only fooling the other non-critical thinkers it doesn't appear any lesson was learned. There will be no change until the base demographic's era fades into the graveyard. They believe what they believe.

Benvolio it wouldn't have mattered if President Obama ever said he was in favor of gay marriage or not (but we know he did as a fact). The people you are trying to convince here would have voted for the President regardless.
No one is foolish to believe your screwed up right wing blog or any other media from them even before they bombed out with lies last week, it was widespread big time .

No matter what you believe the Democrat party is light years above anything the flat earth knuckle dragging angry old Pentecostal religious Republicans offer to Gays.

I am absoltuley loving it... and Opi gets the official "Gotcha" Pile driver award....

[Kulindahr]

Anything that comes from Brietbart's website is suspect. And no matter what,I'd take Obama over Romney. He might have flipflopped on other issues but he didn't need to when it came to LGBT rights. He is and always will be a bigot.

Every link to Breitbart posted here just exposes more how deceitful the place is.

[BostonPirate]

I like to get political facts and figures when they come from organizations that announce them, as was the case with the 2008 gay voting percentage. I'll wait until the announcement is made for this year's election.

This is all a bunch of bullshit, to pardon the expression.

We have a poll here in JUB, and it's about as scientific as you will ever get for a poll on the gay vote. No one knows. This requires honesty of self identification, and there is scientific proof that even the most openly gay person is reticent to tell a stranger on the phone of their sexual identity, even when directly asked.

Are you implying that any reasonable number of Gay people DID vote for Romney?

Our poll here had about 8 out of 70 that said they would vote for Romney, and we have no idea if those people are really gay.