Gay-friendly places in the world? ~ Moral conflict.

[Coward92]

Hey!
So as some of you may know I am already out of the closet, even though the reception was very cold on my familys part. Well I want to be totally open about it now, but I can't shut my eyes over the fact that my mother and my father are both prominent members of their workplace. My mom is a Religious Education teacher at the local school and she is also some sort of a 'renowned scholar". My dad is a very well connected guy, many people like him, and respect him and this web of interests is kind of part of his job.

Now if I go totally open people will turn away from them. Hungary is mostly hostile towards gays. If it were about only me I wouldn't care but i have to think about my parents and my brethren as well. I am sort of thinking about moving to a far far away place.

Are there any gay-friendly cities, or states?
I don't know anything about that, so I would like to ask you guys. I sort of decided to leave my family behind me but I need a good plan and a plan needs a destination to take place at.

I would like to live in Australia or maybe Canada. Any ideas?

[umjreon88]

Where in Hungary are you from? I hear that the capital city is gay-friendly, or am I wrong?

One of the most gay-friendly cities int he world has got to be London!

[Laufey]

I honestly believe Iceland is the best place to be when it comes to the public view on homosexuality. We have a lesbian prime minister and her sexuality wasn't even mentioned in the race before elections. Full legal rights as well including adoption and marriage. Hate crimes almost non-existing.

But it's a bit small so not that great if you want to live in a big city.

[Ganoderma]

hi Coward92,

There are quite a few countries within the European Union where it is no problem at all to live as an open gay. The UK, Germany, France, Belgium, Spain, Denmark, Sweden, Finland and The Netherlands are, eg, on this list. I tend to think that the same is true for countries like Canada and Australia.

So what's the problem when your parents must defend to 'others' that they have a gay son? They have a problem (because they are narrow-minded / relifundi christians / homophobes), so why not let them solve their problems? IMO, its much better that people like your parents get such kind of questions, and need to defend themself. Your parents seem to be intelligent / important people, so let them struggle with their ideas versus you (= their son).

'Why is your son living in Canada, and why doesn't he want to live anymore in Hungary'? So they have to ly when giving this answer. Funny, as you live in Canada (or anywhere else) as an open gay [meaning anyone can check this in < 1 minute, eg through Facebook]. Have you told them that they will need to ly the rest of their live?

So you don't have to hide anything (= you are a gay guy, and will have a male partner within a certain amount of time), while they will have problems. How must they cope with this? Do you want to play the role of some sort of 'black sheep of the family' (as there are only rumours why you don't have contact anymore with your family')?

All are just some questions / opinions, feel free to react. Bottomline, don't let you influence yourself too much about the 'position' of your parents. There is nothing wrong with being gay (being a criminal is wrong, being a guy who is raping girls is wrong, etc.), so also nothing to be ashamed of when you really start to live as an open gay.

So they will have problems until the end of their life, as long as they don't change their opinion, and I tend to think that you might even tell this to them. Why not tell them that you want to leave Hungary because they don't accept you? Intelligent people like your parents are used to this kind of questions.

Good luck, and I am sure others will also reply.

[Coward92]

They are very well aware that I want to leave the country. They are even sad about it, but they agree that it is for the best if I want to continue this "foolishness".
My mom told me that either I become a hetero or I should pack my stuff and leave. Well yea, that was 2 years ago and the situation is not much better. I plan to move from my paretns house and make a stand until I finish the University studies and my Master, but that is 5 years and I have time to plan.

I also hate the mentality in this country. there are not many gay guys, and I want to live in a country where it is easier to be happy. It is bad here.

[Ganoderma]

My mom told me that either I become a hetero or I should pack my stuff and leave.

My mom is a Religious Education teacher at the local school and she is also some sort of a 'renowned scholar".

Wow, have you told her that she will end in Hell? That 100% sure for her, and for all religious people with similar ideas. For them, Hell is a reality, and people with such opinions will end in Hell. Please keep debating with her about Hell. In contract, you don't need to be afraid to end in Hell, as the Hell only exists for religious people (in particular the christian ones).

Do you think that you Mom would like to debate with me (and with other people) about this kind of topics? Or do you think that she will avoid to debate about it with non-religious people like me? Almost all / all religious people like your mom consider themself as 'scholars', but also that's something which is only true within their own mind / environment. Scholars love to debate with each other, where as religious 'scholars' do there utmost best NOT to debate with non-believers / atheists (etc.). They know they will loose the debate....

Best wishes.

[Laufey]

There aren't fewer gay guys there just fewer who are out of the closet.

Did you suggest they would not take it well before you came out? Although I think everybody should come out (unless maybe they live in a country where they could be killed for it)... I think in situations like that it's best to do it after you have moved out from your parents. I've heard stories like that so many times.

Here is a map of the world when it comes to gay rights:



Bigger size: http://i.imgur.com/UpjZO.png

[Coward92]

There aren't fewer gay guys there just fewer who are out of the closet.

Did you suggest they would not take it well before you came out? Although I think everybody should come out (unless maybe they live in a country where they could be killed for it)... I think in situations like that it's best to do it after you have moved out from your parents. I've heard stories like that so many times.

Here is a map of the world when it comes to gay rights:



Bigger size: http://i.imgur.com/UpjZO.png

I love this map. Australia seems neat, just like Canada. good. Those are my 2 dream-places

Wow, have you told her that she will end in Hell? That 100% sure for her, and for all religious people with similar ideas. For them, Hell is a reality, and people with such opinions will end in Hell. Please keep debating with her about Hell. In contract, you don't need to be afraid to end in Hell, as the Hell only exists for religious people (in particular the christian ones).

Do you think that you Mom would like to debate with me (and with other people) about this kind of topics? Or do you think that she will avoid to debate about it with non-religious people like me? Almost all / all religious people like your mom consider themself as 'scholars', but also that's something which is only true within their own mind / environment. Scholars love to debate with each other, where as religious 'scholars' do there utmost best NOT to debate with non-believers / atheists (etc.). They know they will loose the debate....

Best wishes.

I am religious myself, and my mom means business when it comes to debates.
She studied psychology and mental higiene in the past 10 years and she knows everything about everything (even if she obviously fails to know what the point of the topic is) She is very smart, and can make you believe that it is your fault that people starve in Africa.

I just realized that arguing with her is pointless and is evry stressful. Hell exists for everyone. I sometimes feel like I'm there...

[bankside]

Canada! It is free from coast to coast to coast. My own province, Alberta, was the last to wake up, but even Albertans figured out that it is no big deal.

[bankside]

I honestly believe Iceland is the best place to be when it comes to the public view on homosexuality. We have a lesbian prime minister and her sexuality wasn't even mentioned in the race before elections. Full legal rights as well including adoption and marriage. Hate crimes almost non-existing.

But it's a bit small so not that great if you want to live in a big city.

Visiting Iceland is on my list of life's great adventures. I'd love to see it, ever since my days growing up in Manitoba, where there is a large Icelandic population.

Just out of curiosity, how is bisexuality treated there?

[Laufey]

Bisexuals aren't very visible but I think most people are just as positive towards them as gays.

It's an expensive country so I advice you to visit us while our currency is still low

[Coward92]

Bisexuals aren't very visible but I think most people are just as positive towards them as gays.

It's an expensive country so I advice you to visit us while our currency is still low

What professions are wanted there? I kinda fancy the idea of moving there...
Is it easy to get to know other gay guys? Are there places to meet?

[Telstra]

They are very well aware that I want to leave the country. They are even sad about it, but they agree that it is for the best if I want to continue this "foolishness".
My mom told me that either I become a hetero or I should pack my stuff and leave. Well yea, that was 2 years ago and the situation is not much better. I plan to move from my paretns house and make a stand until I finish the University studies and my Master, but that is 5 years and I have time to plan.

I also hate the mentality in this country. there are not many gay guys, and I want to live in a country where it is easier to be happy. It is bad here.

They gave you a green light to move and fly away.
Make your plans and fly away and live happily ever after.
And yes don't argue/debate with them. Just talk happy stuff and get benefits from them.


Off topic:
Christian Bjorn made lots of gay porn in Hungary ?

[Laufey]

What professions are wanted there? I kinda fancy the idea of moving there...
Is it easy to get to know other gay guys? Are there places to meet?

Here in the capital we have a gay organization and two medium sized clubs. That's about it. So not much to choose from. We just have 320.000 people living here. 200.000 in the capital area.

It's probably easiest to get jobs in the fishing industry, tourism and aluminum factories. Those are the fields strongest after the financial crisis. We also need people in the health care system (doctors and nurses) but you would have to settle for less pay than in most of Europe and America (which I guess is the reason why there is lack of people).

The unemployment rate went up to 12% in 2009 after the crash but now it's down to 5,5% so it's getting better.

[Coward92]

They gave you a green light to move and fly away.
Make your plans and fly away and live happily ever after.

Off topic:
Christian Bjorn made lots of gay porn in Hungary ?

No idea, I'm not an expert at porn. The only hungarian porn actor I know is Arpad Mikos.
I find hungarian porn very funny though. The script is so lame that I usually laugh my ass off xD

[Coward92]

Here in the capital we have a gay organization and two medium sized clubs. That's about it. So not much to choose from. We just have 320.000 people living here. 200.000 in the capital area.

It's probably easiest to get jobs in the fishing industry, tourism and aluminum factories. Those or the fields strongest after the financial crisis. We also need people in the health care system (doctors and nurses) but you would have to settle for less pay than in most of Europe and America (which I guess is the reason why there is lack of people).

The unemployment rate went up to 12% in 2009 after the crash but now it's down to 5,5% so it's getting better.

Thanks. I will be a scientist of some sorts, maybe I can get a job as a researcher of some sorts, or maybe a crime investigator....
I really like the idea. I always wanted to live in a beautiful place.

[Laufey]

Well pretty low crime rate and there have been cut downs in law enforcement so that's not likely now.

But we do have a lot of foreign scientists working here so that could work. Any specific research in mind?

[Telstra]

No idea, I'm not an expert at porn. The only hungarian porn actor I know is Arpad Mikos.
I find hungarian porn very funny though. The script is so lame that I usually laugh my ass off xD

"Hungary for Men (1996)"
Interesting life/career

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kristen_Bjorn

[Coward92]

Well pretty low crime rate and there have been cut downs in law enforcement so that's not likely now.

But we do have a lot of foreign scientists working here so that could work. Any specific research in mind?

I will be a molecular bionicist, and later I will specialize, but I haven't decided what path will I take, though medicine-research appeals to me...

[Laufey]

We have a company called deCode here with a lot of foreign scientists working there. If you would be interested in genetic research.

Always room for volcanic research too

[Coward92]

We have a company called deCode here with a lot of foreign scientists working there. If you would be interested in genetic research.

Always room for volcanic research too

Did you say genetic research?
It is my favourite subject within my field
I love it! It holds the solution for many of the problems of the present and the future

[Ganoderma]

See, eg, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeCODE_genetics for more details.

Hi Coward92, stop debating with your mother. She is brainwashed (likely quite severe), and it has no sense to debate with brainwashed people.

Please be aware that Hell only exists for religious people (in particular the christian ones). I don't have a religion (you might call me an atheist). For me, Hell is similar to the jail in Spain were Sinterklaas (our Dutch equivalent of Santaklaus) takes with his childeren when they are not brave. Both don't exist in real life, as the belief in both phenomena (the Hell and the jail in Spain) are caused by aquired behaviour. So Hell is only a topic for christian people, same like the jail is Spain is only a topic for the group of people who believe in Sinterklaas.

I agree with Geiri85 that Iceland lists as well high (very high) on the list of gay friendly countries. I had not listed Iceland, as its not part of the European Union (same like Norway). I tend to think that there are not real big differences in regard to how gay and lesbian people are treated in a variety of NW European countries (and also in countries like Canada). Iceland was the first country with a lesbian prime minister, currently Belgium has a gay prime minister.

Good luck with choosing a nice country. As a student of genetics, you can easily / very easily work all over the world. Likely, you can ever do a master (or a master project) in another country (again, try Erasmus).

[Coward92]

Thanks Ganoderma,

My mom started to be so strict after she attended university studies here... Sometimes it's like talking to a book...

[Rolyo85]

Your mom is a bitch. Sorry to say it, but I am of the school of thought that says that parents have a duty to change their views based on the love for their children, not the other way around. And if they don't, they have failed their children.


That said, you have gotten a lot of good advice here as to places in the world. Personally, I chose the US because I don't like the European "us and the foreigners" mentality. I am not criticizing it, there are legit reasons for it, but I want to live in a place where you aren't considered a foreigner until the day you die, whether you have a citizenship or not. Canada and Australia are also good for people who think like me, but I am generally a fan of US culture, and all the entertainment and arts that I enjoy are made here.

So in terms of America, obviously you want one of the big cities. Any state you pick - even the most liberal - would be less accepting in its rural areas. Obviously the gayest city in the country is San Francisco. Followed by New York, which is - from what I read - literally post-gay at this point. It's a non-issue, the gayberhoods are dispersed among the other areas, etc. Which is both awesome and a bit not, but NY is still among the top 3 greatest cities in the world for me. I live in Chicago, which is amazing, depending on where you live in it. Boystown is the oldest gayberhood in the country, and it is not just a giant night club orgy fest, but also part of the most vibrant neighborhood in the city. I am absolutely in love with this city.

There are other places as well, and obviously some have gay marriage too, mostly on the east coast. That said, I believe gay marriage will soon - in the next few years - spread like wildfire in the non-southern states, and DOMA will fall next year, which will mean that as long as you are in a state that performs or recognizes gay marriage, the federal government will recognize it too. So, when you meet someone special, you will have a way to stay with them.

My two cents. I know the US has a lot of problems regarding gay marriage, and gay rights. And if you follow CE&P, it looks even worse. But in its good parts, I honestly believe America is among the absolute best places in the world to be gay.

[blublud]

I am not a Canadian but from south of the border. I have visited Canada many, many times, mostly Toronto and Montreal I find those places extremely open and tolerant of gays.

[Coward92]

Your mom is a bitch. Sorry to say it, but I am of the school of thought that says that parents have a duty to change their views based on the love for their children, not the other way around. And if they don't, they have failed their children.


That said, you have gotten a lot of good advice here as to places in the world. Personally, I chose the US because I don't like the European "us and the foreigners" mentality. I am not criticizing it, there are legit reasons for it, but I want to live in a place where you aren't considered a foreigner until the day you die, whether you have a citizenship or not. Canada and Australia are also good for people who think like me, but I am generally a fan of US culture, and all the entertainment and arts that I enjoy are made here.

So in terms of America, obviously you want one of the big cities. Any state you pick - even the most liberal - would be less accepting in its rural areas. Obviously the gayest city in the country is San Francisco. Followed by New York, which is - from what I read - literally post-gay at this point. It's a non-issue, the gayberhoods are dispersed among the other areas, etc. Which is both awesome and a bit not, but NY is still among the top 3 greatest cities in the world for me. I live in Chicago, which is amazing, depending on where you live in it. Boystown is the oldest gayberhood in the country, and it is not just a giant night club orgy fest, but also part of the most vibrant neighborhood in the city. I am absolutely in love with this city.

There are other places as well, and obviously some have gay marriage too, mostly on the east coast. That said, I believe gay marriage will soon - in the next few years - spread like wildfire in the non-southern states, and DOMA will fall next year, which will mean that as long as you are in a state that performs or recognizes gay marriage, the federal government will recognize it too. So, when you meet someone special, you will have a way to stay with them.

My two cents. I know the US has a lot of problems regarding gay marriage, and gay rights. And if you follow CE&P, it looks even worse. But in its good parts, I honestly believe America is among the absolute best places in the world to be gay.

I understand your point of view, but I was always drawn to the remote corners of the world, which do not gain any special attention.
Iceland totally fascinates me right now
Australia sounds like a remote paradise as well. Far from everything, just peaceful in the middle of the ocean...

But if I were going to America my choice would be San Francisco no doubt.

I still have much time to make plans and arrangements, so I will take it into consideration....
In the US I would have access to Peanut Butter... That is something!

[Rolyo85]

The tragedy of SF is that it's absurdly expensive. If you don't OWN property in the Bay Area, you simply can't afford living there...

[Coward92]

What about dating opportunities? Mostly internet dating or is live dating a possibility?

[cgymike]

I have hear Norway is good ,,,do we have any jubbers there who can confirm this?

- - - Updated - - -

Seattle may be an alternative ...still not cheap but compared to SF it is.

[Rolyo85]

What about dating opportunities? Mostly internet dating or is live dating a possibility?

Both. I mean there are enough real life venues, at least here in chicago, so I imagine there are some in San Fran and NY too.

[MorrisseyX]

Coward92, Australia is a western nation but Australia also has social problems like xenophobia, racism, homophobia, ect. I also hear in Australia there is a big debate about gay marriage and the Prime Minister Julia Gillard refuses to allow gays and lesbians to marry. Australia.

I agree with the other posters you should research before you move also within Europe there are tons of progressive nations for gays such as Spain, Germany, Denmark, , Sweden, Portugal, United Kingdom ect. There are places right in Europe where you can live and it would be easier too because of the argeement about immigration for people from EU nations.

[Seasoned]

As I mentioned in another thread I think your first task is to connect with other Hungarian gays in order to get a "home" perspective of support. Next you need to be realistic about where you could live outside of your own country. While you might be able to study in the US, for example, immigration is not easy. Your next task is to research immigration laws.

You really ought to work at learning how other gay people cope in your country. You, obviously, aren't alone. Even if you some day have a skill which would be in demand you ought not to put your life on hold waiting for that to happen.

[Rolyo85]

I am not sure what your point was, Seasoned, but if it is that he should stay where he is and learn how to deal with it in his own country, I should point out that some countries in that part of Europe just aren't good enough for gay people yet.

[Seasoned]

I am not sure what your point was, Seasoned, but if it is that he should stay where he is and learn how to deal with it in his own country, I should point out that some countries in that part of Europe just aren't good enough for gay people yet.

You know this is not the forum for sidebar conversations. If Coward92 has a question regarding my meaning he is certainly intelligent enough to ask me a question. No one ought to put their life on hold for 5 years. I repeat to Coward92 to find, even if its just online for now, other gay Hungarians for in-country support immediately. Anything can happen in 5 years.

[Laufey]

I have hear Norway is good ,,,do we have any jubbers there who can confirm this?

All of the Nordic countries are a pretty safe choice I think.

[Coward92]

You know this is not the forum for sidebar conversations. If Coward92 has a question regarding my meaning he is certainly intelligent enough to ask me a question. No one ought to put their life on hold for 5 years. I repeat to Coward92 to find, even if its just online for now, other gay Hungarians for in-country support immediately. Anything can happen in 5 years.

You are kind, but I need plans to go on. I need a goal ahead of me to chase, and the honest truth is that even if I were hetero, I would want to live in another country. I do however meet people here, I also discovered a little gay group here in Szeged who make some good programs. maybe I will join in if I will be through with the crisis I'm going through right now.

Anything can happen in 5 years, that's true, but I will act accondingly to those circumstances. Right now it sucks, but it could be worse. In theese 5 years I will try to get a foothold of my own, regarding money... Of course I would need a job for that.

[Seasoned]

I'm happy to hear you'll work on both -- having a plan to move and attempting to make your current situation more palatable. That's the point I was attempting to make. Best wishes to you. I'm glad you've found JUB.

[Coward92]

I'm happy to hear you'll work on both -- having a plan to move and attempting to make your current situation more palatable. That's the point I was attempting to make. Best wishes to you. I'm glad you've found JUB.

And I'm glad you are here.

[Harke the Boeotarch]

Hey Coward92,

Your most viable choice is to move to one of the capitals of the western countries of the EU.

Amsterdam, London and Berlin all have a sizable gay community and an economy that at least might offer you some opportunity to pay your own way. If you settled there, you could always plan to travel to Canada or the US later.

[jshshs]

Hi Coward92

Im a secretly gay christian guy in Sweden, who lives in the hoods of Stockholm. I could tell you that Sweden is really passive about homosexuals and its really common in Sweden so you know, however in the gettos its not that common. But if you live in the Capital and studying at the Stockholms university or so on believe me people will open their arms for you.

[Coward92]

Hi Coward92

Im a secretly gay christian guy in Sweden, who lives in the hoods of Stockholm. I could tell you that Sweden is really passive about homosexuals and its really common in Sweden so you know, however in the gettos its not that common. But if you live in the Capital and studying at the Stockholms university or so on believe me people will open their arms for you.

Thank you very much!
I hope you are allright. Keeping it a secret must be hard on you

[MindBlast]

Basically any major city here (in Canada) is good. Yes, even Edmonton and Calgary (in Alberta). I live in Edmonton and the attitude is fine here.

Vancouver might be out for you because housing is $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ there. Same deal with Toronto although not as bad. I'd honestly go for Vancouver or Toronto if you can afford it, but if not, any other major city besides Winnipeg is good. It's not that it's anti-gay there, it's that Manitoba sucks in general (shittier weather than the prairies, worse bugs, less sun, ghetto areas).

[jshshs]

Thank you very much!
I hope you are allright. Keeping it a secret must be hard on you

Believe me it really is, really hard to express feelings and being with straight guys who hate gay people... At a club, school and so on. Not easy at all, but you have to stay strong and push it forward Pm me if u need to talk