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  1. #1
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    51st State? The sleeper issue

    With so many referendums and what not on the ballots across many states, this is one that got surprisingly little attention.

    Puerto Rico passed a referendum to vote for statehood which now gets put in Congress' hands.

    If it actually does pass through both houses, that will shake up the Legislative branch with 2 new senators and 5 congresspeople (population is about 3.7 million people near Oregon and Connecticut). Not sure how exactly they would vote political party wise. It would make for an interesting dynamic especially with a big majority of the people there speak only Spanish.

    Puerto Ricans opt for statehood in referendum

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    Re: 51st State? The sleeper issue

    I've always wondered why Puerto Ricans were seemingly content with having their country exist in a permanent limbo, wanting neither to be a fully-integrated U.S. state, nor to be a wholly independent country in their own right. So now they have chosen.

    Why they don't want full independence I've no idea, it's a larger population than Jamaica, and they (along with many more former British Caribbean colonies and others across the world) achieved independence in the 1960's and 1970's.

    Is Congress expected to pass this through?

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    Re: 51st State? The sleeper issue

    Quote Originally Posted by maxpowr9 View Post
    With so many referendums and what not on the ballots across many states, this is one that got surprisingly little attention.

    Puerto Rico passed a referendum to vote for statehood which now gets put in Congress' hands.

    If it actually does pass through both houses, that will shake up the Legislative branch with 2 new senators and 5 congresspeople (population is about 3.7 million people near Oregon and Connecticut). Not sure how exactly they would vote political party wise. It would make for an interesting dynamic especially with a big majority of the people there speak only Spanish.

    Puerto Ricans opt for statehood in referendum
    I certainly believe that Puerto Ricans deserve to determine their own fate, and gain more local control over their affairs. Don;t know if there is a national will to deal with this right now however, if ever. Great subject though... would statehood be acceptable to those who want no change in the status there, or greater autonomy and even independence? We have litle cohesion here as is and the Puerto Rican people don't appear as of now to have any decisive answers themselves.
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    JUB Addict maxpowr9's Avatar
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    Re: 51st State? The sleeper issue

    They voted for statehood so deal gets put in Congress' hand. Puerto Rico has worse unemployment than Nevada (the country's highest state with unemployment at ~11%) which is near 13%. The problem is, since they are currently a territory and not a state, they cannot get any federal funding outside of things like disaster relief and military aide.

    Based upon the 2010 census, Puerto Rico would have five seats if it became a state. Texas, Florida, Washington, California, and Minnesota would all lose one, forcing each respective state to redistrict for the 2014 election.

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    Re: 51st State? The sleeper issue

    Quote Originally Posted by maxpowr9 View Post
    Based upon the 2010 census, Puerto Rico would have five seats if it became a state. Texas, Florida, Washington, California, and Minnesota would all lose one, forcing each respective state to redistrict for the 2014 election.
    Why would those five states lose representation because PR becomes the 51st state?

  6. #6
    GiancarloC
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    Re: 51st State? The sleeper issue

    Having been to Puerto Rico (and look at my music tastes for one), I know many Puerto Ricans who do want state hood. There were once calls for independence, but those have waned. Puerto Rico is beautiful and its people are wonderful...

    I'm not sure how California, Florida and others would lose representation though.

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    Re: 51st State? The sleeper issue

    I'm not sure what would happen legally in the event of adding a new state. Of course there is precedent, If I wasn't so hung over I might go find it.

    The only way I can see other states losing representation is if the number of Reps in the house is somehow fixed. But then it wouldn't make sense that the Senate wasn't fixed as well.

    Who knows.
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    Re: 51st State? The sleeper issue

    Where would we fit that 51st star? Does this mean we have to re-buy our sweatsuits and XL T-shirts of the American flag?
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    Re: 51st State? The sleeper issue

    As far as I know, the number of representatives in the House is currently fixed. That would mean a reapportionment to give Puerto Rico some representatives and some states would loose a similar number. I have no idea how many representatives nor from which states. The Senate is fixed at two per state, so it would increase from 100 to 102. This would also increase the electrorial college for the next time by 2.

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    Re: 51st State? The sleeper issue

    Is there any actual possibility of P.R. being admitted as a state? Not that I object really, it must suck to be a territory - are they allowed to vote in the elections?
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    Re: 51st State? The sleeper issue

    As I understand it, Puerto Rico has been content to stay independent because they pay no Federal personal income tax. I have read -- long ago -- that was worked by the late Sen. Pat Moynihan (D-NYd) to disencourage Puerto Ricans from moving to New York, then their destination of choice.

    They also do not vote in presidential elections.

    Obviously this question will be contentious.

    I foresee the Republicans being hesitant because if it happens under Obama the Democrats may get "a leg up" in future elections.
    Last edited by palbert; November 7th, 2012 at 01:01 PM.

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    Re: 51st State? The sleeper issue

    The more the merrier I say.

    Yo Canada! I've got a proposition for you.....
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    Re: 51st State? The sleeper issue

    ^ Sure, we'd love to have some of the States join Canada!

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    Re: 51st State? The sleeper issue

    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    The more the merrier I say.

    Yo Canada! I've got a proposition for you.....
    Thanks but no. We are not currently accepting new provinces at this time.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

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    Re: 51st State? The sleeper issue

    Well since Canada already has a Texas I guess we're out of luck.
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    Re: 51st State? The sleeper issue

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    ^ Sure, we'd love to have some of the States join Canada!
    Court Maine.

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    Re: 51st State? The sleeper issue

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    I'm not sure how California, Florida and others would lose representation though.
    Sorry for the lengthy quote but it explains it...

    P.S. I dunno the algorithms they use to determine districts per state.

    The U.S. Census Bureau has already used data from the 2010 census to determine the distribution of House seats among the 50 states. We have taken this listing of the 385 seats for the 50 states (remember that every state automatically gets assigned a seat before the census data come into play) and have recalculated the apportionment distribution and the so-called 2010 priority values for Puerto Rico.

    [Quote truncated by moderator] Copyright 2007 The Social Contract Press

    Source Link (added by moderator): http://www.thesocialcontract.com/art..._printer.shtml
    Last edited by opinterph; November 7th, 2012 at 02:35 PM. Reason: edited to truncate full verbatim quote from copyrighted source; added source link; Refer to CE&P Posting Guidelines

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    Re: 51st State? The sleeper issue

    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    Is there any actual possibility of P.R. being admitted as a state? Not that I object really, it must suck to be a territory - are they allowed to vote in the elections?
    They can vote, but their votes don't mean anything since they can't elect electors. They're still US citizens, but without many of the benefits or burdens.

    It would probably be a possibility, but who knows. Since PR has a long-standing relationship with the US, the barriers are small. Basically, congress would have to pass a bill saying what requirements PR would need to meet to be granted state-hood, and authorize them to create a state constitution. When those requirements are met, PR would be granted state-hood.

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    Re: 51st State? The sleeper issue

    Congress won't approve it. While the statehood option got the largest number of votes, it wasn't a majority because half a million people left that item on the ballot blank. Until it's an actual majority choosing statehood, Congress isn't going to touch it.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

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    Re: 51st State? The sleeper issue

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Congress won't approve it. While the statehood option got the largest number of votes, it wasn't a majority because half a million people left that item on the ballot blank. Until it's an actual majority choosing statehood, Congress isn't going to touch it.
    I disagree. Congress will probably start the process I outlined above, which gives PR the option of not completing the process if they choose.

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    Re: 51st State? The sleeper issue

    Quote Originally Posted by JB3 View Post
    I disagree. Congress will probably start the process I outlined above, which gives PR the option of not completing the process if they choose.
    On the basis of a minority favoring statehood? I don't see it.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: 51st State? The sleeper issue

    It seems clear that a bill will at least be introduced, even if Congress chooses to argue over what constitutes a "clear vote."
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

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    Re: 51st State? The sleeper issue

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    On the basis of a minority favoring statehood? I don't see it.
    This isn't the first time the issue has come up, and it won't be the last.

    Hell, congress could instruct PR to conduct a legitimate referendum on the issue.

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    Re: 51st State? The sleeper issue

    It would be weird to have a 102 member Senate though, I'll give you that.
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    Re: 51st State? The sleeper issue

    Quote Originally Posted by Just_Believe18 View Post
    It would be weird to have a 102 member Senate though, I'll give you that.
    They'd have to rearrange the furniture.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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