Biden vs Ryan debate: Biden won but I would have dug deeper

[evanrick]

VP Biden shys away from attacking establishment Poster Child Ryan in VP Debate is another headline.

While Biden certainly defended democrats positions very well he did not attack Ryan's character the way he should have and the way Americans wanted him to do: as someone who always wants it both ways.

Ryan is lucky that he escaped the debate in one piece.

The core of Paul Ryans weakness as a candidate and as a person is someone who believes his entitlement alone to be a god given right, someone whos never had to make a hard decision, someone who would always place their own self-interests above their country, someone who has always been 'taken care of' by others.

When the subject of abortion came up, its clear Ryan was exasperated. Would it surprise anyone to know that abortions occur much more frequently in republican leaning areas than democratic leaning areas? Did it surprise anyone that Ryan looked cornered when he defended unnecessary egregious defense spending?

You would think Ryan who is "pro-life" would be interested in doing something that would actually save a life, and that is by giving the parents of children a job so they can afford to raise a family.

But why would Ryan hold the position that he has? Because it says 'you should have to take care of ME no matter what'. Its a selfish proposition that has nothing to do with the actual abortion debate, it has everything to do the way Ryan frames his arguments.

Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan are the lowest form of Americans, they have no respect for average Americans.

They view themselves as heirs to Americans wealth and would push 50 million off Obamacare to make sure they keep their tax loopholes and special deals.

Congress has a 9% Approval rating because of people like Paul Ryan, and they do not deserve our sympathy or our votes, they deserve to be thrown in jail for sacrificing other Americans dreams and lives to fulfill their own petty selfish interests.

[Telstra]

.
I can see Biden has a false teeth. True ??

[chance1]

Joe's substance was passioned if not reasoned

His Libya explanation was not in sync with latest KNOWLEDGE
And will be a problem this week

Joe complained about time - "are u going to let me talk"?
He talked more than Paul

His "job" was clearly to offset Obama's bend over debate

But I think the job he was sent to do is flawed

[nycguydowntown]

It looked like a smart passionate man vs a college kid running for student president who thinks a lot of himself but hides his insecurities---Ryan looks like he thinks a lot about things when he's taking a dump in the morning but has no idea if anything he thinks adds up to anything that will work in the real world---we've all been there as college kids with big ego's dreaming up ways to save the world ---he spoke in his usual cliches and if you see a guy ready to be one heart beat away from the presidency---I didn't see it---but I did see Eddie Munster just in time for Halloween.

[Kulindahr]

It looked like a smart passionate man vs a college kid running for student president who thinks a lot of himself but hides his insecurities---Ryan looks like he thinks a lot about things when he's taking a dump in the morning but has no idea if anything he thinks adds up to anything that will work in the real world---we've all been there as college kids with big ego's dreaming up ways to save the world ---he spoke in his usual cliches and if you see a guy ready to be one heart beat away from the presidency---I didn't see it---but I did see Eddie Munster just in time for Halloween.

LOL indeed. That's a pretty fair assessment, I'd say.

Ryan was the quintessential Randian (Randite?) trying to pretend he doesn't worship selfishness while working to defend it as a virtue. His "entitlement" attitude comes from the elitist notion that if you're rich, you're better than others and are due more privileges -- what have been called "special rights". Of course he would have denied it, but he was there advocating special rights for the rich, merely because they're rich. This gets cloaked in the lie about "job creators" and other lingo, but it's really a matter of wanting to be able to leech off everyone else by sucking in income not earned because not worked for.

[JayHawk]

Joe's substance was passioned if not reasoned

His Libya explanation was not in sync with latest KNOWLEDGE
And will be a problem this week

Joe complained about time - "are u going to let me talk"?
He talked more than Paul

His "job" was clearly to offset Obama's bend over debate

But I think the job he was sent to do is flawed

He talked more than Ryan by 1 minute and 26 seconds. Hardly counts as "more" BUT technically you are correct.

Ryan had just finished a minute long prevarication over another one of the Romney Campaigns closely held attacks. Biden simply desired enough time to address all of the falsehoods.

[JayHawk]

It looked like a smart passionate man vs a college kid running for student president who thinks a lot of himself but hides his insecurities---Ryan looks like he thinks a lot about things when he's taking a dump in the morning but has no idea if anything he thinks adds up to anything that will work in the real world---we've all been there as college kids with big ego's dreaming up ways to save the world ---he spoke in his usual cliches and if you see a guy ready to be one heart beat away from the presidency---I didn't see it---but I did see Eddie Munster just in time for Halloween.

You think that is scary for Halloweeny? I saw this tweeted just after the debate....



With that to take you away from hair I see intensity on the left and insanity on the right.

[GiancarloC]

It was a political pitbull versus a terrier. It wasn't a pretty sight. Biden had a very strong grasp of the facts, while Ryan resorted to speaking in generalities. Sorry, but Biden wasn't going to be having a bad day. Obama brought facts, but didn't convey his message well. Biden brought facts but landed several knock-out punches. Poor Ryan didn't even know what hit him. Republicans say Ryan stood his ground... but all I saw was a poor fool who got lectured on domestic and foreign policy.

[chance1]

He talked more than Ryan by 1 minute and 26 seconds. Hardly counts as "more" BUT technically you are correct.

Ryan had just finished a minute long prevarication over another one of the Romney Campaigns closely held attacks. Biden simply desired enough time to address all of the falsehoods.

Wonder if Joe's extra time includes the interruptions ?

Where's the ref ?

Ryan was competent good soldier - joe should appreciate that

Biden is the establishment white older guy who gets and feels the pain of the middle class

And he plays that part real well - and I believe he feels it

He's a career poli who won't mail it in

It appears the Dems wanted blood

Not sure I agree but ......

The thrilla on Long Island is next up and will make this a non event

We should figure out Michael buffer esque intros for

Barack and mittens

Perhaps a thread

In the corner to my right .....

[cgymike]

Biden has some blood vessel problems on either side of his face and he looked like he might burst one last night! But maybe I am full of malarkey eh....anyway, he needs to take better care of himself. Meditation and organic foods plus detoxification and maybe deep colonics? Ryan looks fit and was composed most of the time (though I didn't watch all 90 minutes) but his smile seemed kinda plastic.

[JayHawk]

LOL... Joe Biden is 69... tell us how your veins look when you get there.

[bw92116]

The problems for Romney and Ryan are that they are still trying to sell themselves. They are coming across as salesmen. To really make an impression on the viewer they have to discard that and express some passion about what they believe in. They have to become real and talk from the heart, otherwise they seem too calculated and it's just a sales pitch.

[JayHawk]

Romney did sound quite passionate about his positions last debate. Unfortunately as he will find out in this next Presidential debate being passionate about positions you do not actually hold is a difficult game to play in the world where every grunt, blink and word uttered is recorded and analyzed. I really think Obama will hold Mitts feet to the fire next debate and not in the manner Biden did to Ryan. In fact, Mitt always seems to come off as a used car salesman. He was a fast talking salesman last debate. That wont work in a town hall where the citizens ask the questions and the Presidential candidate has to appeal to the person in front of them while at the same time making themselves warm and genuine to the rest of the viewers. Romney will fail at this completely. Watch for tons of conspiracy and criticism from the right after next debate. They are gonna be livid.

[GiancarloC]

The problems for Romney and Ryan are that they are still trying to sell themselves. They are coming across as salesmen. To really make an impression on the viewer they have to discard that and express some passion about what they believe in. They have to become real and talk from the heart, otherwise they seem too calculated and it's just a sales pitch.

That's correct. They are doing the crazy car salesman schtick. As I said before I think Romney was busy watching old Cal Worthington commercials. Biden presented a sound argument based on facts and logic. It was a sound argument that was based on a necessary aggressive approach. Romney was aggressive towards Obama, yet it is horrible if Biden is aggressive? Republicans are inconsistent. Biden toyed with him all night with facts. Biden had a reasoned argument and passion... Romney had the passion but no argument.

[chance1]

The problems for Romney and Ryan are that they are still trying to sell themselves. They are coming across as salesmen. To really make an impression on the viewer they have to discard that and express some passion about what they believe in. They have to become real and talk from the heart, otherwise they seem too calculated and it's just a sales pitch.

Your POV and public opinion are at odds

Mitt and Ryan were cynically portrayed as evil

And the debates prove otherwise

Their "sale" was refuting the hopeless and changeless ads by the cynic in chief

And people see for their own eyes

Not from Obama's mouth

[GiancarloC]

The debates prove otherwise? Mitt Romney constantly disrespected Obama and the moderator... and Obama admitted he was too nice. And Obama is the evil one? Oh puhhh-lease. As far as Biden, he was aggressive and brought facts. That's what was needed. Ryan brought voodoo math. Watch what he said about taxes... it's hilarious. He didn't even bring facts.

I'm sorry but Biden ran circles around the darling GOP newboy. He got schooled.

And I watched the debate a second time on youtube... somebody needs to tell Ryan to answer the QUESTIONS that the moderator asked of him. Biden answered the questions, Ryan didn't.

[Benvolio]

Biden's bizarre behavior dooms Obama/Biden. No one but a confirmed Democrat could approve Biden's behavior. They have lost the independence, and they will not be back. Landslidesville here we come.

[GiancarloC]

His bizarre behavior? He was trying to hold back laughs from all the lies Ryan was spewing on stage. Romney/Ryan are kaput. A dud.

[Spiff]

Biden's bizarre behavior dooms Obama/Biden. No one but a confirmed Democrat could approve Biden's behavior. They have lost the independence, and they will not be back. Landslidesville here we come.

Bizarre? Were you just born yesterday? Don't talk about people of whom you obviously have zero familiarity. If Obama had acted that way, that would have been bizarre. For Joe, it was expected. Evan Ryan said he was expecting it; so that should be enough proof for you that Joe's behavior was not bizarre.

[GiancarloC]

Bizarre? Were you just born yesterday? Don't talk about people of whom you obviously have zero familiarity. If Obama had acted that way, that would have been bizarre. For Joe, it was expected. Evan Ryan said he was expecting it; so that should be enough proof for you that Joe's behavior was not bizarre.

Exactly.

What annoys me is it's fine if Romney does condescending facial expressions and smirks... lol... but if Biden does it... it's mean spirited, bizarre and rude. Inconsistency in its finest.

[chance1]

Bizarre? Were you just born yesterday? Don't talk about people of whom you obviously have zero familiarity. If Obama had acted that way, that would have been bizarre. For Joe, it was expected. Evan Ryan said he was expecting it; so that should be enough proof for you that Joe's behavior was not bizarre.

i guess the idea is a low bar is a good bar

joe's crazy so acting crazy is ok

LOL

not quite the kind of temperament you want from a man a heartbeat from the presidency

[MisterMajestic]

Great Vice Presidential Debate from Veep Biden & Congr. Ryan...I'm so glad the Obama Administration unleashed DaBiden...Joe was exactly what the Base needed. He was Focused, Strong, Confident and presented the Facts to the American people. Where President Obama failed in last weeks debate Joe succeeded. My FAVORITE part of the Debate is when Joe explained to Paul that The Afghan troops are trained and then sent to the Front of the line to fight NOT American Soldiers...I think Paul finally got what Joe was saying before they changed topics and after the debate was over......I Loved how Joe interrupted Ryan as often as possible with the Facts and he gets a PASS because NO ONE complained about Mitt Romney dominating the Moderating process last week...

Republicans were quick to say Romney's Domination of last weeks Debate was Masterful but Joe's Domination was rude. That's total Bullshit and if you can Dish it out you better be able to take it...

Even though Paul was nervous and almost drowned himself in that glass of water he gets Credit for holding his own against the Vice President. I agree with all the Commentators that he passed the Veep in waiting test. Paul didn't have to give a stellar performance or Beat Joe. For 90-minutes all he had to do was remain Gaffe free and appear knowledgeable of the Topics...Perception is reality to the undecided voters watching.

Martha Raddatz is an Excellent Moderator and she was in control of the length of time the Candidates spent on the Topics and when it was time to move-on. She should Moderate all future debates and I'd move her up to the Presidential Candidate debate. You cannot let the Candidates take over the debate and I think future Moderators will remember how good Martha was last night and follow suit...

Overall.....This is a Base election and Joe & Paul delivered for their Parties...The Dems should be VERY Proud of Joe because he lifted us off that Cliff that Obama had us dangling from after last weeks performance....You done good Dabiden, you done Good....

[Jack Springer]

^^^

People laugh at Joe. They think he's a walking gaffe machine.

His demonstrated childish behavior last night -- more like a junior high school class clown.

Look at the polls.

[GiancarloC]

^^^

People laugh at Joe. They think he's a walking gaffe machine.

His demonstrated childish behavior last night -- more like a junior high school class clown.

Look at the polls.

What is the childish behavior? It's not childish laughing at the opponent when he's so pathetically wrong. It's a natural human reaction. I would have done the same. Biden destroyed that darling of the republican party. Next time tell Ryan to come with his nuts and some facts.

And the polls are reversing back to Obama's favor. Sorry to burst the bubble.

A gaffe machine? Didn't show last night when he destroyed the VP hopeful... and hopeful is all Ryan will be... maybe a book tour is in the works when he loses his White House bid and his seat in his state.

[bw92116]

They are extremely nervous... they are still behind in the electoral vote count.
Dems are nervous too, as of right now in the popular vote Romney is slightly ahead.

[chance1]

[Quoted Post: Removed by Moderator]

Did u watch CNN ? Not exactly a right wing net

Did u watch Morning Joe ? On MSNBC

Did u see the polls ?

Pretending Biden won is fine

Standards after Obama's debate 1 were understandably low

As Ryan said Joe was under great duress

It's gonna be ok

LOL

[JayHawk]

They are still behind in Ohio despite the first debate bounce and that amount behind is outside the statistical error associated with the polls. Without Ohio Romney has to take EVERY other swing state. As Bill Clinton said it's arithmetic stupid.

[bw92116]

I still think that Obama has a good chance of winning but he will have to really make his case to the undecideds during the last 2 debates. It's pretty much his to win or lose at this point.

[JayHawk]

Yeah these things are all about momentum... Obama had it going into early voting and now will have it going into the weeks following. i seriously think this was a very well planned rope a dope... easy excuse as MOST sitting Presidents have a shit first debate.

[GiancarloC]

Two other polls (ABC and NBC I believe) gave Biden the big win... but regardless... one just needs to look at the debate itself.

[chance1]

They are still behind in Ohio despite the first debate bounce and that amount behind is outside the statistical error associated with the polls. Without Ohio Romney has to take EVERY other swing state. As Bill Clinton said it's arithmetic stupid.

well he was ahead by a LOT and now it's almost nothing - the arithmetic on that is pretty good

that's change

not hope and change

but change

obama's entire narrative - a piece of shit one at that - evil mitt

is sorta destroyed

what's plan B ?

i'm sure david axelrod, man of no sleep is in the lab as i type thinking of something heinous

and having stephanie cutter - how could anyone hire her - her latest bullshit is that the entire libyan terror investigation is due to romney's campaign pushing it

the next time she tells the truth will be the first

[MisterMajestic]

Next time tell Ryan to come with his nuts and some facts..

...LOL...This gets the Spotlight as JUB's winning line of the week...


For those of you that watched the Post-DebateCommentary on MSNBC would you agree that Chris Hayes is the Most Attractive & Sexiest Nerd when he wears a suit & tie?

I was like Damn I know his wife had to jump his bones as soon as he walked through the Front door...

[bw92116]

I wonder why The Debate Thread was closed.

This election will probably come down to Ohio, as it did in 2004. After studying the maps, I now think Romney absolutely must win Ohio in order to win the election. Obama has a couple of other possible paths to win if he doesn't win Ohio, but for Romney, if he doesn't win Ohio it would be almost impossible for him to win. So I think Ohio is going to be the deciding state again. At the moment Obama holds a very slight lead in Ohio according to most polls. I wouldn't be surprised to see huge amounts of money spent by both sides in the next couple of weeks and plenty of visits to Ohio by the candidates.

[chance1]

[Quoted Post: Removed by Moderator]

yep - a draw - the panel basically called it a draw

as did most people

u didn't like the cnn poll ? u think they don't know what they're doing? cnn has been a news service for how long?

the polls were split spiff - that was referenced on Morning Joe - i thought u watched it ?

i know it's hard to see a big lead evaporate in a little more than a week

maybe if your candidate wasn't such a scorched earth cynic who has completely disavowed the style and manner and basis for his election ..........

maybe he'd be ahead

maybe if his administration had taken ownership for the bad not just the good

he'd be ahead

maybe if his admin didn't lie about intelligence recently with regard to the murder of ambassador stevens and 3 others

he'd be ahead

maybe if he had overseen the spending of stimulus dollars instead of giving it to nancy and harry who muted their convo and ignored him

he'd be ahead

maybe if he didn't think that the power of his pearly whites and nice suits and not being bush would give the muslim world an obama chubby

he's be ahead

try keeping it real

it beats the alternative

[GiancarloC]

well he was ahead by a LOT and now it's almost nothing - the arithmetic on that is pretty good

that's change

not hope and change

but change

obama's entire narrative - a piece of shit one at that - evil mitt

is sorta destroyed

what's plan B ?

i'm sure david axelrod, man of no sleep is in the lab as i type thinking of something heinous

and having stephanie cutter - how could anyone hire her - her latest bullshit is that the entire libyan terror investigation is due to romney's campaign pushing it

the next time she tells the truth will be the first

Okay... one may try to criticize Obama on the economy... but where the heck is Mitt Romney on the economy? I don't want to hear the same basic platitudes. I've begged to hear what Mitt Romney's position on the economy is... and all I get is: We will create 12 million jobs... blah blah blah. Mitt is a populist bullshit artist.

Oh and Obama is still ahead by a lot. Check Nate Silver's blog and projections. Romney can't counter Biden. And Obama will come out swinging at him in the next debate... history says incumbents usually do poorly in the first debate.

[Constantine]

I did a massive eye roll when the candidates were asked how their faith informed their policy as if our laws are supposed to adhere to what's written in the book of Leviticus.
Well, it's not supposed to because we have separation of church and state. Be that as it may, the Catholic Church went over Ryan's plan and practically shat on it and lit it with fire because they said it was the most anti-Catholic thing they'd seen from someone claiming to adhere to the Church's position on social justice, and not some atheistic, anti-family, Russian expat beatitude on selfishness.

[GiancarloC]

Here is a good article on why Ryan completely flunked on Iran... and Romney flunked on this area too:

http://www.nationaljournal.com/polit...omney-20121002

This is from prior to the debate too... it explains how Iran is experiencing economic collapse... their economy is very poor right now... and the unemployment has shot up astronomically.

http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/poli...afsanjani.html

Moderate Rafsanjani may also seize the opportunity in this crisis.

[Kulindahr]

obama's entire narrative - a piece of shit one at that - evil mitt

is sorta destroyed

But Mitt is evil -- it's a demonstrable fact. He made his initial fortune at Bain by hooking up with terrorists, and enlarged it by ripping off the taxpayers. He made himself look good at the Olympics he ran by pretending it was all private enterprise even while he instructed his staff to apply for every possible federal dollar imaginable. He let us know inadvertently that he despises half of America. He showed that he's so out of touch with the people that he thinks $10k is a typical bet. He made a fool of himself in Britain, which although not evil is hardly good. He endorsed an economic plan that would kill about 4.5mn jobs in two years. He wants a bloated military that could have no purpose but aggression. And he supports most of all these positions with lies -- plus he picked a Veep candidate who excels at and majors in lies, as demonstrated by the VP debate.

That wouldn't be Obama's entire narrative if Romney weren't such a hoax.

And it isn't his entire narrative anyway, because he continues to advocate for the measures he supported that would have generated over two million jobs... which the people-hating Republicans killed.

As a libertarian, I have to acknowledge that Obama is not exactly a champion of liberty -- but Romney is its enemy.

[Kulindahr]

maybe if he had overseen the spending of stimulus dollars instead of giving it to nancy and harry who muted their convo and ignored him

he'd be ahead

Well, that one at least is valid. The stimulus accomplished some superb things, but overall it lacked real quality control.

[Kulindahr]

I did a massive eye roll when the candidates were asked how their faith informed their policy as if our laws are supposed to adhere to what's written in the book of Leviticus.
Well, it's not supposed to because we have separation of church and state. Be that as it may, the Catholic Church went over Ryan's plan and practically shat on it and lit it with fire because they said it was the most anti-Catholic thing they'd seen from someone claiming to adhere to the Church's position on social justice, and not some atheistic, anti-family, Russian expat beatitude on selfishness.

I liked it when Biden interrupted on Ryan's claim about adhering to Catholic positions -- one more Ryan lie, and one obvious to Catholics. I hope it will encourage more Catholics to ignore the right wing bishops and vote for someone who understands justice.

[bw92116]

As a recovered Catholic that's a big point for me... no church should be allowed to impose its on beliefs onto public law. Yet they are, big time, by telling their members what to think on the issues. They can't endorse candidates but they hammer so hard on the issues that they make it obvious which candidates they actually want you to vote for. They should lose their tax-exempt status because they have broken the separation of church and state. Salvatore Cordileone was one of the co-authors of Proposition 8 in California and he was interviewed on TV in San Diego right before the vote and I was shocked - why was the Catholic church on TV talking about a matter of public law? (And the Mormon church spent a lot of money on it too.) I think it was his way of pushing his way up the church power structure. And just 9 days ago this man was installed as the Archbishop of the San Francisco archdiocese...

[Benvolio]

The First Amendment guarantees BOTH Freedom of Religion And Freedom of Speech. Churches do not have to choose. I understand that many ministers this year are making political speeches, sending tapes to the IRS, challenging it to make a test case.

[GiancarloC]

The First Amendment guarantees BOTH Freedom of Religion And Freedom of Speech. Churches do not have to choose. I understand that many ministers this year are making political speeches, sending tapes to the IRS, challenging it to make a test case.

Nobody is forcing churches to do anything. They have tax exemption. If they start getting involved in politics, maybe they should lose that tax exempted status. Churches need to stay out of politics. Period.

[Kulindahr]

As a recovered Catholic that's a big point for me... no church should be allowed to impose its on beliefs onto public law. Yet they are, big time, by telling their members what to think on the issues. They can't endorse candidates but they hammer so hard on the issues that they make it obvious which candidates they actually want you to vote for. They should lose their tax-exempt status because they have broken the separation of church and state. Salvatore Cordileone was one of the co-authors of Proposition 8 in California and he was interviewed on TV in San Diego right before the vote and I was shocked - why was the Catholic church on TV talking about a matter of public law? (And the Mormon church spent a lot of money on it too.) I think it was his way of pushing his way up the church power structure. And just 9 days ago this man was installed as the Archbishop of the San Francisco archdiocese...

The thing about the Roman church in America is that their social justice teaching favors the Democrats and their social morality teaching favors the Republicans, resulting in a political schizophrenia. That's why you get a national bishops' council condemning Ryan on social justice while objecting to Obama on morality.

[GiancarloC]

One article is describing Romney's tax plan as a three legged stool that can't stand and the "six studies" Ryan cited weren't really studies at all lmao. In fact three of those "studies" were BLOG POSTS. Wow, Mr. Ryan I didn't realize blog posts count as studies... is this an internet forum now? And one of the "studies" is from Romney's own advisers... horse's ass.

Here is more on this matter in this article:

http://www.nationaljournal.com/2012-...dd-up-20121013

Ryan lied multiple times and while it appeared he didn't make any blunders... this was a MAJOR BLUNDER and GAFFE on his part.

[evanrick]

Biden has some blood vessel problems on either side of his face and he looked like he might burst one last night! But maybe I am full of malarkey eh....anyway, he needs to take better care of himself. Meditation and organic foods plus detoxification and maybe deep colonics? Ryan looks fit and was composed most of the time (though I didn't watch all 90 minutes) but his smile seemed kinda plastic.

Ryan has had government to take care of him HIS WHOLE LIFE, hes an overgrown child who is a horrible liar.

Every time he looked at the camera you know he was about to bullshit Americans.

[evanrick]

yep - a draw - the panel basically called it a draw

as did most people

Just because the debate is perceived as a draw that simply means each candidate presented their arguments as expected to the expected level.

Frankly, Ryans and Romneys arguments are much easier to make, as the selfishness displayed my Romney and Ryan are easy to understand because its 'Winner take all'.

To make a the democratic argument, that we are all in this together, we are not out to hold other people hostage, we believe in one country with one set of rules requires more than the basic instincts of personal greed, it requires a social conscience which many conservatives conveniently forget about when making decisions that affect other peoples lives.

[Benvolio]

Just because the debate is perceived as a draw that simply means each candidate presented their arguments as expected to the expected level.

Frankly, Ryans and Romneys arguments are much easier to make, as the selfishness displayed my Romney and Ryan are easy to understand because its 'Winner take all'.

To make a the democratic argument, that we are all in this together, we are not out to hold other people hostage, we believe in one country with one set of rules requires more than the basic instincts of personal greed, it requires a social conscience which many conservatives conveniently forget about when making decisions that affect other peoples lives.

Nonsense. Your idea of "us all in in together" is for a minority--mostly Republican--to pay all the taxes so the majority--mostly Democrat--can get a free ride, while you abort as many Americans as possible to replace them with hoards of additional dead weight for us to carry. Higher and higher taxes on fewer and fewer people to pay for more and more welfare for more and more people.

[GiancarloC]

Ryan has had government to take care of him HIS WHOLE LIFE, hes an overgrown child who is a horrible liar.

Every time he looked at the camera you know he was about to bullshit Americans.

True. Romney was yapping about his business experience... but then why did he pick a guy that has ZERO business experience? Ryan has always been on the government payroll... he was even a speech writer for other politicians for quite some time. Ryan has taken money from the government for 20 years... his salary. It was pathetic how he lied to the faces of the American people.

[Benvolio]

True. Romney was yapping about his business experience... but then why did he pick a guy that has ZERO business experience? Ryan has always been on the government payroll... he was even a speech writer for other politicians for quite some time. Ryan has taken money from the government for 20 years... his salary. It was pathetic how he lied to the faces of the American people.

Still better experience than a (laughing) "community organizer" LOL. Ryan was chosen because of his experience on the House Budget. Community--somthing of which the Dems are totally oblivious. Buget? We don't need no stinkin budget, we just spend, spend, spend.