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  1. #1
    MikeyLove
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    Neurosurgeon discovers proof of Heaven


  2. #2
    mitchymo
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    Re: Neurosurgeon discovers proof of Heaven

    What proof? The guy is a neurosurgeon, not a psycologist. His career works with the physical mind, not the subconscious workings of it.
    He had a dream. That's as far as proof goes.

  3. #3
    johaninsc
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    Re: Neurosurgeon discovers proof of Heaven

    I'll withhold judgement until after I read more about it in a more unbiased and scientific publication


    ...such as the National Enquirer

  4. #4
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    Re: Neurosurgeon discovers proof of Heaven

    LOL @ this. Oh, and the URL it's on.
    blacksyringe

  5. #5
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    Re: Neurosurgeon discovers proof of Heaven

    I thought this was a no flame zone.

  6. #6
    MikeyLove
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    Re: Neurosurgeon discovers proof of Heaven

    Quote Originally Posted by palbert View Post
    I thought this was a no flame zone.
    It is a No Flame Zone.

  7. #7
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    Re: Neurosurgeon discovers proof of Heaven

    Then why are the mirrors reflecting smoke?

  8. #8
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    Re: Neurosurgeon discovers proof of Heaven

    on a religious catholic dot org site LOL
    Should be on a scientific site if you are serious !!!


    NEVER LISTEN TO A ONE SIDED STORY AND JUDGE.

  9. #9
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    Re: Neurosurgeon discovers proof of Heaven

    Thank you MikeyLove. I was glad to read it.

  10. #10
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    Re: Neurosurgeon discovers proof of Heaven

    Faith should mean something sort of like "trust in an uncertain world."

    It has come to mean, "belief in spite of evidence."

    'Proof of heaven' is a waste of time.

  11. #11
    JUB Addict FirmaFan's Avatar
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    Re: Neurosurgeon discovers proof of Heaven

    Eyewitness testimony is one of the most unreliable sources of facts. How, then, should we reasonably respond to eyewitness testimony as interpreted by a brain on the verge of death?

  12. #12
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    Re: Neurosurgeon discovers proof of Heaven

    It's like a window has opened to "the other side." Is there an outbreak of visitations.
    Last edited by palbert; October 12th, 2012 at 07:54 AM.

  13. #13

    Re: Neurosurgeon discovers proof of Heaven

    Has any one read the book.? The scientific response to "Near death experience" has been that it is physiological. A neurosurgeon or neurologist would be the best qualified to analyse the phenomenon. I am sceptical, but would like to see his analysis.
    Advanced physicists like Hawking and Einstein have suggested there may be alternative and parallel universes and that in some sense the past, present and future cooexist. These strange theories make experiences such as the doctors more plausible.
    Hundreds of thousands claim to have seen ghosts. Could that also be some sort of inter demensional thing?

  14. #14

    Re: Neurosurgeon discovers proof of Heaven

    If your really interested in this you will take effort to listen to these talks like I have and hear different perspectives with open mind. This is how we learn isn't it. We don't START with a conclusion that 'yes it means it is the Christian heaven, or the Muslim heaven' or 'no it is just chemicals in the brain' etc. Just listen to the talks and feel your way into inqury: http://www.btci.org/bioethics/2012/v...2/default.html

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    Re: Neurosurgeon discovers proof of Heaven

    The article was sort of silly.

    1. We are supposed to give more credence to this man's near death experience because a. he's a doctor and b. because he was a skeptic who now believes.

    2. We are supposed to believe that near death experiences are absolute proofs of the existence of heaven, and not hallucinations... again, because a doctor says so.

    I notice that they didn't mention anything about the evidence he's collected. That's the only thing I'd be interested in.

  16. #16

    Re: Neurosurgeon discovers proof of Heaven

    I have provided links where you can actually watch and listen to his story. Have you even bothered to check it out?

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    Re: Neurosurgeon discovers proof of Heaven

    Quote Originally Posted by ludolfo View Post
    I have provided links where you can actually watch and listen to his story. Have you even bothered to check it out?
    ^^ I haven't seen them. Where are these links? But I'm admittedly not interested unless he provides something other than a narrative of his experiences. I'm a proud skeptic and I want something objective and concrete.

  18. #18
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: Neurosurgeon discovers proof of Heaven

    It would beggar believe to consider the catholic source as unbiased.
    Thankfully the story was reported in Newsweek. You can also read the Neurosurgeon's account here:

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/newswee...afterlife.html


    Then you can read a rebuttal from a scientist who is actually more familiar with the way the brain works:
    http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/this-must-be-heaven
    Everything—absolutely everything—in Alexander’s account rests on repeated assertions that his visions of heaven occurred while his cerebral cortex was “shut down,” “inactivated,” “completely shut down,” “totally offline,” and “stunned to complete inactivity.” The evidence he provides for this claim is not only inadequate—it suggests that he doesn’t know anything about the relevant brain science. Perhaps he has saved a more persuasive account for his book—though now that I’ve listened to an hour-long interview with him online, I very much doubt it. In his Newsweek article, Alexander asserts that the cessation of cortical activity was “clear from the severity and duration of my meningitis, and from the global cortical involvement documented by CT scans and neurological examinations.” To his editors, this presumably sounded like neuroscience.

    The problem, however, is that “CT scans and neurological examinations” can’t determine neuronal inactivity—in the cortex or anywhere else. And Alexander makes no reference to functional data that might have been acquired by fMRI, PET, or EEG—nor does he seem to realize that only this sort of evidence could support his case. Obviously, the man’s cortex is functioning now—he has, after all, written a book—so whatever structural damage appeared on CT could not have been “global.”
    Last edited by bankside; October 13th, 2012 at 05:26 PM.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

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    Re: Neurosurgeon discovers proof of Heaven

    Thank you for posting that, bankside.

    The neurosurgeon's account didn't move me. I'm glad that someone rebutted it and validated my instincts.

  20. #20
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    Re: Neurosurgeon discovers proof of Heaven

    Is the world still flat?

  21. #21
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: Neurosurgeon discovers proof of Heaven

    Quote Originally Posted by palbert View Post
    Is the world still flat?
    If a geographer goes into a coma and comes back to tell us the world is still flat, that is sufficient scientific evidence for me. He could have seen the flat earth while his spectral aura was floating above his body before the white light invited him to return to his loved ones on earth.

    And seeing the earth like that - well as everyone knows, direct observation is the foundation of science! I bet you can see Russia that way too.
    Last edited by bankside; October 14th, 2012 at 08:09 AM.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

  22. #22

    Re: Neurosurgeon discovers proof of Heaven

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacquemar View Post
    ^^ I haven't seen them. Where are these links? But I'm admittedly not interested unless he provides something other than a narrative of his experiences. I'm a proud skeptic and I want something objective and concrete.
    you can't even seem to find links? My first post in this thread?

  23. #23
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    Re: Neurosurgeon discovers proof of Heaven

    Quote Originally Posted by ludolfo View Post
    you can't even seem to find links? My first post in this thread?
    Okay, now I see it. It was sort of tucked away into the end of the post.

    The forum linked does sound very interesting. I will definitely check it out a little later.

  24. #24

    Re: Neurosurgeon discovers proof of Heaven

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacquemar View Post
    Okay, now I see it. It was sort of tucked away into the end of the post.

    The forum linked does sound very interesting. I will definitely check it out a little later.
    Cool. Try and listen to all the talks with an open mind

  25. #25

    Re: Neurosurgeon discovers proof of Heaven

    Obviously, a subjective and unverifiable mental experience is proof of nothing, but itself.

    The world is full of folk, who think they have experienced some version of heaven or hell or that they are Christ or Napoleon. Most people have experienced vivid and/or near waking dreams or fantasies. Telling other people about them doesn't give them any objective life other than electronic or bio-chemical functions of the brain.

    Faith is a gift from God, if one believes in God. It does not require scientific proof and this neurosurgeon's "discovery" has nothing to do with proof.

    Strange that what can be such an inspiration to one person can seem such a waste of time and energy to another.

  26. #26

    Re: Neurosurgeon discovers proof of Heaven

    so you don't like the possibility of riding on the back of a butterfly in some mysterious dimension and yet you believe in 'God'....?
    lol, I am more used to atheists question NDEs. Or are you a fundy who demands a definite belief in the ordained fate of:
    HEAVEN ORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR HELL?

  27. #27
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: Neurosurgeon discovers proof of Heaven

    Ludolfo, use that open mind that you counsel us quite rightly to keep.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

  28. #28

    Re: Neurosurgeon discovers proof of Heaven

    I always try and nurture an open mind. why don't you think it open because of what i said in last post?

  29. #29
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    Re: Neurosurgeon discovers proof of Heaven

    He's claiming scientific observation, apparently, but if he can't assemble at least, say, three other observers who experienced the same thing, with details, it's not scientific at all -- it doesn't even rise to the level of corroborated testimony.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  30. #30
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Neurosurgeon discovers proof of Heaven

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Advanced physicists like Hawking and Einstein have suggested there may be alternative and parallel universes and that in some sense the past, present and future cooexist. These strange theories make experiences such as the doctors more plausible.
    Hawkings is an atheist and Einstein was arguably an agnostic or atheist.

    Hundreds of thousands claim to have seen ghosts. Could that also be some sort of inter demensional thing?
    Hundreds of thousands claim to seen ghosts? People have vivid imaginations. That's about it.

    Just like this neuro-surgeon. Simply a vivid imagination. This isn't proof of heaven. What makes christianity so special anyways?

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