17 year old calls 911 -- shot and killed his mother, sister (Audio of 911 call)

[Nishin]

Yeah because civil wars are just fought by civilians right, government officials heave never ever joined the cause, no military figures have ever joined fight either right... do you know any history at all about civil wars or revolutions? I am not talking about over throwing the government, because I don't agree with a piece of legislation. I am talking about the point where peaceful protesting does not work. Have you forgotten about Syria. It started out with peaceful protesting, You know what happen next? Syrian regime start sending out death squads abducting protester kids, torturing them, and sending them back to their families in pieces. They also used lethal force against protesters. That is when Syrian rebels groups starting forming and going up against arms to fight their government. Ranking officers, Generals and cabinet members also joined the rebels.

That is the exact reason why our founding fathers gave us to the right to have arms, in case of extreme miss treatment of the people by the government, the people can fight back, not have to hide in fear. It is completely ignorant to think that just because this is a 1st world country, that something similar that his happening Syria can't happen here. Is there a big chance of it happening of course not, And I hope it never does. The truth is no one knows what will happen in the future, so why risk it by banning all guns. That is all I wanted to point out.

I'm sorry but your argument makes no sense at all... I read your post 3 times in a row and I still can't make sense out of it... With such arguments I think I'm gonna side with BreakTheIce on this one: "Listening to Americans justifying gun laws is the biggest joke."

You mention Syria as an example... how can Syria regime be compared with the USA at all?? The USA is a democracy ... If people disagree with some policy they are free to demonstrate and (more effectively) VOTE.
Then if the government decides to ignore polls and grasp power illegally it will only depend on whether the army is on their side or not, if it is then you as a civilian are fucked (when's the last time you had access to nuclear warheads?), if it isn't then, the army is the "militia" that will restore democracy and simple civilians need not be involved (in terms of weapons and battling that is).

At the time of the founding fathers, the difference in fire-power and scale between what weapons were available to a simple civilian and to the military was nowhere as big as it is today.
Sometimes, legislation needs a little reality check and upgrade.

Indeed no-one knows what will happen in the future, on the other hand we all can see what's happening NOW with guns available and spread in the civilian population.

[DigitalFudge]

What I just put in bold print, no one ever says. It's always a question of why, or a demoralization of the fact that we have them in the first place. The sad fact of the matter is that's not even a solution that's viable - at least not right now. Restriction only works when there is a stiff penalty for those that break the law; banning altogether(and there are some weapons that need to be strictly military or not available at all for ANY reason) has the same dilemma.

So i again ask, where is the solution? And how does it make your country better - violence is still in fact, violence. Whether a person dies or not does not make that fact go away.

Yup.



A government of the people, by the people, for the people is a democracy. Governments afraid of the people means therefore that the people are afraid of each other. Living in a state of deadlocked fear is no solution. I'm sorry if your country is stuck in that rut of fear, but you might want to try moving somewhere else.



You never hear any solutions because you're not listening to the actual solution right in front of you: restrict weapons, ban some. It isn't a slogan. It's not some extremist quackery like the Chinese cultural revolution or Chavez and his pretend democracy. It is the actual tried-and-true solution that works in countries with freedom and stable, accountable democratic governments. And on this subject, all those other countries are better than yours.

just out of curiosity... last time the US government was out of control (ie declaring illegal wars in distant parts of the world) what were your weapons good for?
And regarding the second part of your post, do you actually believe the government/army has anything to fear of the common citizen, armed or not??

A government afraid of its citizens is a Democracy. Citizens afraid of government is tyranny!” Thomas Jefferson. its a joke saying tehre is no need for guns in society, peroid. The whole point of us having guns is in the event of our government being out of control. We can then if absolutely necessary, use guns to over throw the government. There never be no guns on our planet, people who want to do evil and bad things will always be able to get guns, no matter the laws. Just like drugs, drugs are illegal, but look you can get them simply by walking down the street and asking the right person.

I didn't even notice the gun debating going on.


I honestly don't think we should be snatching guns away from everyone. Hopefully stories like these remind people that the owners of the guns should be the only people that have access to them.


Not some family free for all "Okay guys here is where the gun is in case of emergencies!" The kid could of gotten a gun from another source, of course. But in the case of the four year old who shot his father point blank this is just another layer of responsibility we need to accept being Americans and loving our guns.

[blackbeltninja]

What more is there to be said? What more do you expect people to add?

Why are you (and thatgirl) shoving the whole tragic situation down everyone's throats with giant text of the 'juicy bits' and second-by-second analysis of what went down?

It's pointless macabre sensationalism/voyeurism for no purpose other than that you apparently 'enjoy' retelling the tale, otherwise you wouldn't have framed your opening post the way you did.

More fool me for clicking on this thread in the first place, I admit that. Knew nothing good would come of it.

It's exactly like I said previously about that car-chase guy that shot himself while the cameras were on him. These types of 'news' stories are horrible and saddening enough without people feeling the VERY disturbing need to share EVERY pointless graphic detail about the whole event.

Hmmm

Not sure I agree. Sometimes I'm interested enough to click the link provided in the OP; sometimes I'm not and I rely on the comments in the OP to fill me in. I can decide for myself whether the facts presented are sensationalised or not, but if I'm not interested enough to chase the details up further it helps that someone else has seen fit to present them to me, hyped up or otherwise.

-d-

[BreakTheIce]

What I just put in bold print, no one ever says. It's always a question of why, or a demoralization of the fact that we have them in the first place. The sad fact of the matter is that's not even a solution that's viable - at least not right now. Restriction only works when there is a stiff penalty for those that break the law; banning altogether(and there are some weapons that need to be strictly military or not available at all for ANY reason) has the same dilemma.

So i again ask, where is the solution? And how does it make your country better - violence is still in fact, violence. Whether a person dies or not does not make that fact go away.

Give one reason why owning guns is better than not owning guns in society. Why do you need guns anyway? Owning a gun is a big responsibility, making them easily accessible to everyone for no apparent reason leads to stories like the one in the OP. And we hear them all the time.

Yes, there is violence all over the world. My point is that banning/restricting the right to own a gun in the US would lessen the amount of violence there already exists. To say, "there is violence all over the world anyways" DOES NOT JUSTIFY allowing your citizens to own guns in any way.

If guns were illegal or restricted (like some drugs), then fewer people would have access to them. The ones that try to get them through illegal means might not be able to do so because once they are illegal they will cost way more than they already cost. The risk of penalty might discourage people from trying to obtain them as well.

Violence exists in many forms all around the world. Knife violence, etc. you name it. But the US has ALL those and STILL has gun violence and nobody in the country (apparently) has the brains to see that the amount of violence could be lessened if you if you take away or restrict some of the means that allow people to conduct the violence.

Had the kid in this OP not had a gun, his mother and his sister could have survived. Even if he tried to use a knife or something it might have been harder for him to kill them. Or it would have given the other enough time to run across the street to the grandparents' house and get help/aid.

There is absolutely nothing that justifies gun ownership in the US. At all.

[tombastep]

Good thread, gonna keep reading.

[johaninsc]

another gun thread

yay!...



this is what I have...sweet!

[MoufOfKhaos]

Give one reason why owning guns is better than not owning guns in society. Why do you need guns anyway? Owning a gun is a big responsibility, making them easily accessible to everyone for no apparent reason leads to stories like the one in the OP. And we hear them all the time.

You need to reread the part what I stated that I abhor guns, so i'm not arguing for, just arguing against your arrogance on the matter.

The fact is, since you mentioned it, that yes, gun ownership IS a big responsibility, one this country - for better or worse - seems to entrust in its' people. It is a system of errors, apparently, but - and rightfully so, despite my own feelings on the matter - one that can't be whitewashed with a "simple" ban.

Yes, there is violence all over the world. My point is that banning/restricting the right to own a gun in the US would lessen the amount of violence there already exists. To say, "there is violence all over the world anyways" DOES NOT JUSTIFY allowing your citizens to own guns in any way.

I never said that because there is violence everywhere, that it justifies guns - I said that violence is violence, so getting rid of guns has not created a utopia in your land of origin. Let's not put words in my mouth.

If guns were illegal or restricted (like some drugs), then fewer people would have access to them. The ones that try to get them through illegal means might not be able to do so because once they are illegal they will cost way more than they already cost. The risk of penalty might discourage people from trying to obtain them as well.

The blind fact is - not just in the USA, but other countries as well - that the black market exists because of these laws. In fact, it thrives. It makes it hard for a law abiding citizen with no criminal record who actually is using the gun for a "higher" purpose to own, while the ones we don't want to have the guns in the first place can pick a street corner and have at it. Maybe if we has those damn mandatory minimum laws for illegal gun trafficking and possession, instead of for those who have a drug problem that could be fixed by a mandatory stint in a rehab center, you might be onto something that "fixes" the problem.

Now, the rest of your post goes on to call US citizens something akin to brainless idiots, but you've proven yourself quite incapable of reason, and, i'm now bored of this discussion. You have fun upon that golden laced pedestal there buddy.

[bankside]

The blind fact is - not just in the USA, but other countries as well - that the black market exists because of these laws. In fact, it thrives. It makes it hard for a law abiding citizen with no criminal record who actually is using the gun for a "higher" purpose to own, while the ones we don't want to have the guns in the first place can pick a street corner and have at it.

That isn't a fact though; that is the opposite of a fact. People in countries with stronger gun control measures are not at the mercy of criminals using trafficked guns. There's just way less gun crime here. (So, again, restriction is the obvious solution, and I'm still not sure how to break that down or explain how to do it any more clearly than it already is. "Make guns harder to get ahold of."

[Kraseviya]

Here is a taste of an average day in the lovely Dallas suburbs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darlie_Routier

http://www.dallasobserver.com/2002-0...lers-among-us/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dena_Schlosser

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2011...olice-say?lite

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/0...-LOVER-Message

These are just the one I could think of off the top of my head.

[BreakTheIce]

....

"There is absolutely nothing that justifies gun ownership in the US. At all."

And,

That isn't a fact though; that is the opposite of a fact. People in countries with stronger gun control measures are not at the mercy of criminals using trafficked guns. There's just way less gun crime here. (So, again, restriction is the obvious solution, and I'm still not sure how to break that down or explain how to do it any more clearly than it already is. "Make guns harder to get ahold of."

^Thank you.

Side note:

Funny enough I've spent most of my life in the US, and not abroad. Growing up in Saltsburg, PA I never understood why guns were legal in the country as I lost not one, not two, but 4 of my closest friends in one man gun massacres. And I'm not the only one. So I'm not arrogant when I say that guns should be banned and/or restricted from society. It's just something that needs to be done ASAP. The fact that the country is not not seeing this is both funny and pathetic at the same time.

You could call me arrogant if there were two sides to the argument and I wouldn't listen to yours. There aren't. I guess you're just overly sensitive or something, but I'm done arguing on this too; since you abhor gun violence, there's nothing to argue about. Whether or not I'm arrogant/stuck up/etc. is merely your opinion, and opinions are like assholes, everybody has them.

Have a nice day.

[SLOPPYSECONDS]

21st centurys global padded cell

man do good job wot a cum easy ta so a thang

ha

[johaninsc]

I bet Sloppy's gun looks like this

[tombastep]

It's just something that needs to be done ASAP. The fact that the country is not not seeing this is both funny and pathetic at the same time.

Have a nice day.

I think there a lot of people in the US that do see it, just not enough.