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  1. #1

    Would you want to visit a Nazi Concentration camp?

    While reading the Sunday newspaper this morning I was shocked to see an article about visiting Auschwitz, one of the most notorious Nazi death camps. More than one million people, mostly Jews, we're murdered at Auschwitz during WWII. Personally I could never visit it. Could you?

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    Re: Would you want to visit a Nazi Concentration camp?

    I would, but only to help me understand what it must have been like for the prisoners to see friends and family go for a walk knowing they were never coming back.

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    Re: Would you want to visit a Nazi Concentration camp?

    Yes I would go, it's a part of history, ugly history, but it's something that seems crazy that Hitler only died less than 70 years ago. Many of us know relatives that were alive back then, even if they were children.

    What a horrible thought to be living your life one day and then rounded up and killed the next.
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    Re: Would you want to visit a Nazi Concentration camp?

    Yes. I'd go. It's important to remember gay's were treated the same as the Jews. That's where the pink triangle symbol comes from. The Nazi's used it to identify gay men and women in the camps. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_triangle

    It would be hard but I'd like to go and show some respect for those that suffered and died there.

    Steven.

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    Re: Would you want to visit a Nazi Concentration camp?

    I visited Auschwitz when I went to Europe after high school. It's a very odd place. Peaceful, quiet, and sad.

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    Re: Would you want to visit a Nazi Concentration camp?

    .
    No, but people must learn the history and its true horror.


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    Re: Would you want to visit a Nazi Concentration camp?

    much a awsum lands owrld ova keep nazi alive ans well
    lot lands is concentration camps fa eons but no say nothin or upset sofa cheese they a no up on it

    there go sumthang fa awsum keyboards go sing their balls fa nothin but their cheese

    thankyou
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  8. #8

    Re: Would you want to visit a Nazi Concentration camp?

    rather a surprise that even here this aspect of history seems to have been expunged , vanished . After being liberated by the west the hundreds of thousands of surviving gay men in their own concentration camps ( pink triangle not the Jewish gold star ) being criminals were just moved to nice new Bundesrepublik prisons . If the Jews got the state of Israel the Nazi alterations to the criminal code dealing with gay men were still in place I think until the 70s or 80s . I think in the 90s the Mayor of Berlin made some sort of apologetic speech .

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    Re: Would you want to visit a Nazi Concentration camp?

    This piece of music, Symphony of Sorrowful Songs by Polish composer, Henryk Górecki, was performed and recorded in Auschwitz.

    The most famous segment of the symphony is the second movement, Lento e Largo. The lyrics were found written on the walls of a Gestapo prison cell.

    It is probably one of the most haunting pieces of music that you'll ever hear in your life:


  10. #10

    Re: Would you want to visit a Nazi Concentration camp?

    I do think we are culturally very sinful in implying the Holocaust was principally ( almost exclusively ) against Jews and basically ignoring the millions of gay men , Gypsies , Freemasons , Jehovah's Witnesses that were rounded up and killed .

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    Re: Would you want to visit a Nazi Concentration camp?

    I did visit and was glad I did. Other than the film which was shown there, it is subdued but sad and important to remember that evil is waiting.....

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    Re: Would you want to visit a Nazi Concentration camp?

    NO...

    I had a hard enough time watching the video GSDX posted...

    "Whatever you do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius and power and magic in it..." Goethe

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    Re: Would you want to visit a Nazi Concentration camp?

    No, I don't think I would want to.

    It's there as a historical memorial to the dead, but in a freakish way, it is also there for nazi sympathizers for whatever the place means to them too.


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    Re: Would you want to visit a Nazi Concentration camp?

    No..not particularly.

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    Re: Would you want to visit a Nazi Concentration camp?

    I've been to Auschwitz. I felt as though I needed to pay my respects. It's hauntingly sad and has always stayed with me. On subsequent visits to Poland I opted not to go. Once is enough.
    "Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind."--Dr. Seuss

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    Re: Would you want to visit a Nazi Concentration camp?

    Quote Originally Posted by BENDERBOY View Post

    I don't think such horrific evil ever really leaves the place where it happened.
    Spoken like a true Scot.

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    Re: Would you want to visit a Nazi Concentration camp?

    Quote Originally Posted by BENDERBOY View Post
    I don't think such horrific evil ever really leaves the place where it happened.
    You pretty much just summed up what I was coming in here to say.

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    Re: Would you want to visit a Nazi Concentration camp?

    If offered the chance, I would go. As much as I can study about WW2, one really can find out the REAL horrors of the war in one of two ways... by talking to a survivor of the Holocaust... or visiting the hell itself.

    I no offer comes, i'd only go back to Germany for Wakken and to revisit my birthplace.
    "There’s death on the horizon,

    and I’ll run to behold your sacrifice..."

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    Re: Would you want to visit a Nazi Concentration camp?

    Went there a while back. Such an overwhelming experience.

  20. #20

    Re: Would you want to visit a Nazi Concentration camp?

    But what is there? I have seen the gate, the few huts and the big open, flat fields covered in snow.

    Are there underground sections? Can you see the shower rooms and gassing rooms? Are there display cabinets with relics and pictures with audio recordings?
    .

  21. #21

    Re: Would you want to visit a Nazi Concentration camp?

    I went to the Dachau concentration camp when I was in Germany. I felt that it was very important to see, not only because I am Jewish, but because this is something that everyone should see. They had a museum there which was very educational and contained photographs of so many of the inmates that died there. I had a young and very knowledgeable tour guide who explained everything very well and gave us a good sense of what it might have been like.

    They say that those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it. This is why the remains of these camps must stay there and must be seen by future generations.

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    Re: Would you want to visit a Nazi Concentration camp?

    I have been.

    Everyone should have to look into an oven where human beings were deposited by the thousands, sometimes not yet dead; gay men, gypsy, jew, communist, asocial women (lesbians) alike.

    Since I can walk out alive, it gives me all the strength I need to witness this part of history; when you see a place where live humans were dissected by "political medicine" what does my discomfort matter compared to the suffering that must be understood.
    Last edited by bankside; October 7th, 2012 at 06:58 PM.
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    Re: Would you want to visit a Nazi Concentration camp?

    Nope!!

    Once i went to a palm reader and she told me in a past life i died in a nazi concentraction camp

    ANOTHER time i went to a palm reader and she said i was in a nazi concentration camp

    So either these palm readers were lucky and sold me the same lie, they're all working together, or they were right and knowing my luck i would go to the same camp i died in, have either flashbacks or would somehow die again

  24. #24

    Re: Would you want to visit a Nazi Concentration camp?

    Absolutely, Auscwitz is the last place my uncle can be traced to.

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    Re: Would you want to visit a Nazi Concentration camp?

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    Everyone should have to look into an oven where human beings were deposited by the thousands, sometimes not yet dead; gay men, gypsy, jew, communist, asocial women (lesbians) alike.
    I agree with bankside's should.

    Massacre and genocide are common features of human society and we ought to reflect on what that means. Auschwitz is a conspicuous example, but let us not forget that we have many from which to choose.

    Such places ought to affect us. I hope they will make us better.

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    Re: Would you want to visit a Nazi Concentration camp?

    Quote Originally Posted by guyfromNY View Post
    I went to the Dachau concentration camp when I was in Germany. I felt that it was very important to see, not only because I am Jewish, but because this is something that everyone should see. They had a museum there which was very educational and contained photographs of so many of the inmates that died there. I had a young and very knowledgeable tour guide who explained everything very well and gave us a good sense of what it might have been like.

    They say that those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it. This is why the remains of these camps must stay there and must be seen by future generations.
    I am not Jewish, but I did go to pay respects at Dachau, which is located near Munich. As GuyfromNY said, it was an opportunity to see where some of history's darkest moments took place. I was not prepared for the moving emotional experience it turned out to be. As I walked the grounds and the buildings still standing, I experienced the feelings of sadness, and the hopelessness of those who were imprisoned there. It helped me to better understand the senseless insanity of the Third Reich, and the true bravery of Holocaust survivors.


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    Re: Would you want to visit a Nazi Concentration camp?

    Nope
    (the fact that I won't travel overseas to begin with prevents it, but even not counting that...)
    It'd be too sad mentally/emotionally draining to see (even though I could probably handle handle that though)
    One big reason I wouldn't is I think the place would also be very creepy/haunting to walk through

    <that all said, from a historical point of view it'd be kinda interesting to see>

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    Re: Would you want to visit a Nazi Concentration camp?

    That would be absolutely incredible! I would go in a heart beat!
    I make my bed with the stars above my head and dream of a place called home.

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    Re: Would you want to visit a Nazi Concentration camp?

    I've had the opportunity and chose not to. I have some quite unfashionable personal ethics about exploitation and voyeurism in regards to these kinds of things. I find the whole process of tourism to cites of atrocities horrifying.

    Having said that, I have an awareness that my views on this are not "correct" in any sense and I know many people who I respect have chosen to visit former "concentration camps" for the valid reason other JUBbers have stated.

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    Re: Would you want to visit a Nazi Concentration camp?

    Quote Originally Posted by ashonfire View Post
    I've had the opportunity and chose not to. I have some quite unfashionable personal ethics about exploitation and voyeurism in regards to these kinds of things. I find the whole process of tourism to cites of atrocities horrifying.
    Better to tear it all down and pretend that it didn't happen? This isn't like rubber-necking to get a peek a the bodies as you drive past a traffic accident. To equate it with a 'tourist spot' is a bit of a stretch. This was a place of mass murder on an epic scale - an even which some still insist never happened. It's not maintained to draw in tourists. I mean, it's not a fun place to be, I'm sure. It's there to make people think about the horrors that went on there.

    People who go there today can walk out any time they want. People who were sent there 70 years ago had no choice, and millions of them never saw the other side of the fence again.

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    Re: Would you want to visit a Nazi Concentration camp?

    ^ But he implied that it is used as a tourist site rather than a historical site. He implied that it was kept just for tourism.

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    Re: Would you want to visit a Nazi Concentration camp?

    Quote Originally Posted by gsdx View Post
    ^ But he implied that it is used as a tourist site rather than a historical site. He implied that it was kept just for tourism.
    Did I? That was not my intention. I'm not particularly interested in hijacking this thread with any kind of argument but I would like to emphasise that I don't think humanity should forget about any instances of genocide and I did not and would not suggest that, nor have I suggested that we tear down such places.

    As I said in my post, I can see the validity in other people's reasons for visiting these places but it holds no appeal to me. I strongly dislike bickering about this kind of thing on here. I thought the discussion had been fairly open-minded and interesting so far, and at the risk of coming across sycophantic, I thought the piece you posted was beautiful.

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    Re: Would you want to visit a Nazi Concentration camp?

    Quote Originally Posted by gsdx View Post
    ^ But he implied that it is used as a tourist site rather than a historical site. He implied that it was kept just for tourism.
    ofs courses it touuuuur ismsssss

    world awsum cultures swim in it fa eons ans still no figa own shit

    there go

    this was nice picnic

    thankyou

    wot discova taday ?
    # da moon is da MOON #
    @ we go visit it make sure? @
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    Re: Would you want to visit a Nazi Concentration camp?

    Quote Originally Posted by SLOPPYSECONDS View Post
    ofs courses it touuuuur ismsssss

    world awsum cultures swim in it fa eons ans still no figa own shit

    there go

    this was nice picnic

    thankyou

    wot discova taday ?
    # da moon is da MOON #
    @ we go visit it make sure? @
    Problem is, as you say, we still haven't figured out our own shit, as people in Darfur can attest.

    Memorials and monuments to atrocity are more than picnics. They remind us that we ought to cultivate empathy; for some of us brutes, that is a real discovery.

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    Re: Would you want to visit a Nazi Concentration camp?

    Quote Originally Posted by zoltanspawn View Post
    Problem is, as you say, we still haven't figured out our own shit, as people in Darfur can attest.

    Memorials and monuments to atrocity are more than picnics. They remind us that we ought to cultivate empathy; for some of us brutes, that is a real discovery.
    no say dat or folk no where ta spill their heartfelt ooh dat not nice

    anyway
    me no say
    it scream out many awsum plot land on planet everyday fa eons up ta latest day include leap day - BOOM - oops
    but betta no say or lot world awsum folk upset no discova it or etc so on ans stuff
    ans etc ans mor da etc

    cue commerical or it snake oil folk of awsum wear
    - ooh - da Apublic a saved

    thankyou
    1st worldee Q is safe go out wet rain?
    _titturs-

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    Re: Would you want to visit a Nazi Concentration camp?

    Quote Originally Posted by pat grimshaw View Post
    But what is there? I have seen the gate, the few huts and the big open, flat fields covered in snow.

    Are there underground sections? Can you see the shower rooms and gassing rooms? Are there display cabinets with relics and pictures with audio recordings?
    Full of memories of the horrific sufferings of the dead.


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    Re: Would you want to visit a Nazi Concentration camp?

    Quote Originally Posted by SLOPPYSECONDS View Post
    no say dat or folk no where ta spill their heartfelt ooh dat not nice

    anyway
    me no say
    it scream out many awsum plot land on planet everyday fa eons up ta latest day include leap day - BOOM - oops
    but betta no say or lot world awsum folk upset no discova it or etc so on ans stuff
    ans etc ans mor da etc

    cue commerical or it snake oil folk of awsum wear
    - ooh - da Apublic a saved

    thankyou
    And I thought I was cynical.

  38. #38
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    Re: Would you want to visit a Nazi Concentration camp?

    Quote Originally Posted by zoltanspawn View Post
    And I thought I was cynical.
    wot is cynical?

    as say human race no get this far wit out > wot world awsum cultures a littull man no figa ans make all life pay in etc so on ans etc so on

    so cheer up

    thankyou
    1st worldee Q is safe go out wet rain?
    _titturs-

  39. #39
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    Re: Would you want to visit a Nazi Concentration camp?

    Yes and I have seen two already.


    Quote Originally Posted by csb999 View Post
    I do think we are culturally very sinful in implying the Holocaust was principally ( almost exclusively ) against Jews and basically ignoring the millions of gay men , Gypsies , Freemasons , Jehovah's Witnesses that were rounded up and killed .
    Most concentration camp memorial sites today DO mention the other groups. I know for sure about Dachau, but I'd bet Auschwitz, too.
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    Re: Would you want to visit a Nazi Concentration camp?

    Quote Originally Posted by ashonfire View Post
    Did I? That was not my intention.
    Quote Originally Posted by ashonfire View Post
    I have some quite unfashionable personal ethics about exploitation and voyeurism in regards to these kinds of things. I find the whole process of tourism to cites of atrocities horrifying.
    Sorry, but I don't see how to interpret this in any other way than 'tourist attraction'.

  41. #41
    panegyric JUB Admin Corny's Avatar
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    Re: Would you want to visit a Nazi Concentration camp?

    ^Nobody who ever was at Auschwitz would write such a thing.
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    Re: Would you want to visit a Nazi Concentration camp?

    in Europe it's very common to go visit nazi concentration camp as part of our school program.

    So Yes I've been there, and yes it's weird & sad, it's part of the world's history.

  43. #43

    Re: Would you want to visit a Nazi Concentration camp?

    It gets a 7 on the list of Poland's Top Ten Tourist Attractions

    http://www.staypoland.com/poland-attractions.htm
    .

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    Re: Would you want to visit a Nazi Concentration camp?

    No, I had a chance and I passed it up because I had heard that it is very sad, depressing, and emotional to see it. I was on vacation and wanted to enjoy myself. I sometimes wonder if I should have seen it. I understand that there are pictures of items taken from the victims, lists of names, etc and the enormity of it reaches you when words cannot. It should never be forgotten.

  45. #45
    panegyric JUB Admin Corny's Avatar
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    Re: Would you want to visit a Nazi Concentration camp?

    It's a tourist attraction because it attracts tourists. That doesn't mean it's a joyful or over-commercialized place.
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    Re: Would you want to visit a Nazi Concentration camp?

    Quote Originally Posted by tombastep View Post
    And the OP made this thread because of this article.
    And I was supposed to know this how? Sorry, but I flunked Mindreading 101.

    The fact is that he said he had the chance to go and declined because he has "personal ethics about exploitation and voyeurism in regards to these kinds of things. I find the whole process of tourism to cites of atrocities horrifying."

    He called it a tourist attraction. I didn't.

  47. #47
    Cruise Director
    quasar's Avatar
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    Re: Would you want to visit a Nazi Concentration camp?

    Quote Originally Posted by loveguys72 View Post
    I visited Auschwitz when I went to Europe after high school. It's a very odd place. Peaceful, quiet, and sad.
    One of my friends visited, and the one thing that struck her was that despite there being trees fairly close by - there were no birds. She said it was like even nature was aware that something awful had happened there. She was extremely moved by the experience.

    Quote Originally Posted by gsdx View Post
    This piece of music, Symphony of Sorrowful Songs by Polish composer, Henryk Górecki, was performed and recorded in Auschwitz.

    The most famous segment of the symphony is the second movement, Lento e Largo. The lyrics were found written on the walls of a Gestapo prison cell.

    It is probably one of the most haunting pieces of music that you'll ever hear in your life:
    I can recall listening to this constantly when I first bought the CD. Amazing piece.

    As for the article mentioned by the OP, I imagine that while we've all seen the images on TV, it's one of those places that, until you've visited it, you can't quite comprehend the sheer scale of the operation. I've seen the BBC series 'Auschwitz: The Nazis and the Final Solution' several times, and each time I've been left incredulous that it happened. You'd think that after that, mankind wouldn't let it happen again, but we have and it does - albeit on a smaller scale - so we've learned nothing about ethnic and racial cleansing...
    Last edited by quasar; October 8th, 2012 at 12:35 PM.

  48. #48
    stop the bullshit rareboy's Avatar
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    Re: Would you want to visit a Nazi Concentration camp?

    Well.

    As someone who has visited them.

    Let me tell you it is not voyeurism.

    It is not tourism.

    It is a reminder of the banality of evil. Of how criminals can gain control of the state and perpetrate crimes beyond imagining. All with the help of a well organized mind of an architect and the means provided by industry.

    It is an object lesson in how humans cynically work to de-humanize their fellow humans...to reduce them to sub-human...to create an 'other' sub-group, whether Jews or homosexuals or gypsies and to convince otherwise sane and rational middle class people to buy into the notion of man and super man.

    I have been there and my heart still aches from the experience.

  49. #49
    nf fbt funw glbhuof gmhp SLOPPYSECONDS's Avatar
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    Re: Would you want to visit a Nazi Concentration camp?

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    Well.

    As someone who has visited them.

    Let me tell you it is not voyeurism.

    It is not tourism.

    It is a reminder of the banality of evil. Of how criminals can gain control of the state and perpetrate crimes beyond imagining. All with the help of a well organized mind of an architect and the means provided by industry.

    It is an object lesson in how humans cynically work to de-humanize their fellow humans...to reduce them to sub-human...to create an 'other' sub-group, whether Jews or homosexuals or gypsies and to convince otherwise sane and rational middle class people to buy into the notion of man and super man.

    I have been there and my heart still aches from the experience.
    object lesson doodoo
    ans dehumanize go on everyday world ova ta da happy pap of Apublic goin ooh fa eons
    tourism wit da voys ans etc

    sorry it recorded worlds awsum folk runnin da play cultures up ta second no even human

    there go

    thankyou
    1st worldee Q is safe go out wet rain?
    _titturs-

  50. #50
    WTF????? refujiunderground's Avatar
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    Re: Would you want to visit a Nazi Concentration camp?

    honestly, there's a lot of places that i've been to where horrible things have happened to people but i have no choice but to pass through there for example: ground zero/the world trade center. sure, i would go to visit. if i thought like how you're thinking where i wouldn't go to somewhere where people have got murdered, died in car wrecks, tragedies happened and etc, i wouldn't leave home. there's plenty of places where people have died, horrific things have happened and you wouldn't even know.
    one thing about the closet/you don't have to hurry/it will be bad tomorrow/so brother, don't you worry

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