First Thoughts: Unemployment rate dips below 8 percent

[chance1]

We've gotten to the point in politics where nothing is regarded as the defacto truth anymore

Mitt Romney kicked Obama's rear for 90 minutes earlier this week in an unedited, unbiased, REAL interaction between the 2 men

Cool that you don't care ....... but not cool that you didn't recognize it and validate it

Unemployment at 7.8% = .3% drop - YEAH ........ good news right?

sorta

did you know that we need 150k jobs just to keep up with population growth?

did you know that average rate of job growth in 2012 < that in 2011 ? how is that a slow steady growth as some have said here?

job growth is not good YET ........... somehow the UE rate goes down ? sounds like voodoo economics

did you know that the jobs created survey (114k) is taken of companies while the unemployment rate (7.8%) is from a household survey?

the two #s have no real connection .......... I'm not saying they're not important - both are .......

then there's unemployment rates that are much higher - ones that include people who can only fine PT work (14.7%) and then there's the one that includes the underemployed and those who have stopped looking (22.5%).

#s are so fungible - so analyzable - so partisanable - it's like they don't matter

behind the 7.8% drop is that more PT jobs were added - better than a kick in the head but great news?

i was recently out of work - i'm sure others here on this board are now - I happen to know a few - perhaps you have a family member, partner .......... we all know people who are out some for a long time

this is the "eye test" and we all know it

things are not good

I paid $4.44 for a gallon of 91 octane gas today

so is it "good news" the UE rate dropped? yeah

using it as "things are working - obama's doing a good job" - NO

so republicans should NOT use this news as a "you're a liar" moment - NO WAY

but dems should not dive on the sword here

things are not good

[T-Rexx]

^ So, your idea is that unemployment is correcting too slowly, so we should return to the economic policies that caused it in the first place. You would prefer policies of proven failure to policies that are known to succeed because the success is too slow for you.

You believe that FDR should have gone back to Hoover's plan in 1936, and the depression would have ended sooner.

Driving off the cliff was actually a great idea. We just haven't done it often enough to appreciate its virtues.

[GiancarloC]

Mitt Romney kicked Obama's rear for 90 minutes earlier this week in an unedited, unbiased, REAL interaction between the 2 men

No I'm sorry but Romney didn't do anything of the sort. Romney was too busy trying to be the used car salesman trying to sell a message with no real substance. Obama didn't do well, but I think he is irritated by Mitt Romney's REFUSAL to bring up specifics. I've asked for specifics of the economic reforms that Romney wants... and... no response.

Unemployment at 7.8% = .3% drop - YEAH ........ good news right?

sorta

Sorta? No, actually if you look at the entire report it's good news in several regards.

did you know that we need 150k jobs just to keep up with population growth?

Population growth? Not exactly. That's not true. If you think newborns are immediately going into the workplace market you're mistaken. And population growth actually has been waning. I already brought up the figure that 860,000 found jobs.

did you know that the jobs created survey (114k) is taken of companies while the unemployment rate (7.8%) is from a household survey?

The household survey is actually accurate and there are other indicators that line up with projections (as with the two charts that were posted by FuryOfFireStorm on post 40).

then there's unemployment rates that are much higher - ones that include people who can only fine PT work (14.7%) and then there's the one that includes the underemployed and those who have stopped looking (22.5%).

This is political spin. There have always been people on part time work even during times of economic boom and the unemployment rate has always been hire. But that's still not unemployment. Spinning numbers.

things are not good

I paid $4.44 for a gallon of 91 octane gas today

I paid $4.61. My suspicion is gas companies are gouging up prices based on false pretenses. It's just too obvious. A refinery problem... uh huh... right before the election. Gas and oil companies that donate heavily to the Romney campaign.

Things are pretty good and improving steadily. There is no reason to reverse and go back to the old policies of Romney... because the policies of Romney are the policies of Bush. This is something that Obama should have brought up in the debate and I believe he will in the next debate.

[Tengilethos]

The numbers don't add up completely, because they come from two different sources, the household survey and the establishment survey, who are also not really reliable. Which you can see by the fact that the numbers for the last two months have been corrected upwards. Single surveys mean as much as single polls, so this could be a good sign or an outlier. But everybody has access to the two surveys, it is absurd to think they would be faked. These are civil servants whose job is in jeopardy should they lie. The same with the polls, they make their money with accurate polling, they would be insane to skew the polls in any direction.

Overall I am constantly amazed how little trust Americans have in their government; not only it's ability to get something done, but also the basic informations it provides are doubted. How can you live this way? This also extends to public figures of authority, like pollsters or scientists.

[GiancarloC]

Well when there are several sources corroborating the 7.8% number it can be trusted. What irritates me is the republicans are complaining about it... it could be better if they didn't hold up several pro-job bills that could have created two million jobs.

[Tengilethos]

We've gotten to the point in politics where nothing is regarded as the defacto truth anymore

Mitt Romney kicked Obama's rear for 90 minutes earlier this week in an unedited, unbiased, REAL interaction between the 2 men

Cool that you don't care ....... but not cool that you didn't recognize it and validate it

You should have read some of the really left-wing websites, it was THE SKY IS FALLING!!!-Mode for at least a day after the debate.

Unemployment at 7.8% = .3% drop - YEAH ........ good news right?

sorta

did you know that we need 150k jobs just to keep up with population growth?

did you know that average rate of job growth in 2012 < that in 2011 ? how is that a slow steady growth as some have said here?

job growth is not good YET ........... somehow the UE rate goes down ? sounds like voodoo economics

did you know that the jobs created survey (114k) is taken of companies while the unemployment rate (7.8%) is from a household survey?

the two #s have no real connection .......... I'm not saying they're not important - both are .......

See my last post. These numbers don't really add up, but this is because of the survey method, not because some partisan hacks cooked the numbers. And this is how the BLS has measured unemployment for quite some time, so they did not change their (maybe flawed) methodology to help the President. And their numbers where reliable enough for Republicans to attack Obama when they showed unemployment over 8%.

then there's unemployment rates that are much higher - ones that include people who can only fine PT work (14.7%) and then there's the one that includes the underemployed and those who have stopped looking (22.5%).

#s are so fungible - so analyzable - so partisanable - it's like they don't matter

behind the 7.8% drop is that more PT jobs were added - better than a kick in the head but great news?

i was recently out of work - i'm sure others here on this board are now - I happen to know a few - perhaps you have a family member, partner .......... we all know people who are out some for a long time

this is the "eye test" and we all know it

things are not good

I always wonder how realistic a quick return to low unemployment is. The unemployment rate was about 4.5-5% for the last years of the Bush presidency before the crash. But the economy was driven by a debt-fueled housing bubble, so a good number of these jobs must be based on unsustainable parts of the economy, right? So why should the unemployment rate return to these levels any time soon without another bubble?

And secondly, connected to the housing bubble, if I understand correctly then taxes on these houses make up a significant portion of local budgets. Which is one of the reasons public sector employment has fallen dramatically. Look here (older chart):



Blue are private sector jobs, red public sector. The big spike was the 2010 census.
Source: http://www.businessinsider.com/the-c...loyment-2012-6

Population growth means that having the same number of private sector jobs as before the recession is still a net loss of jobs per person, but the situation is clearly improving. But the public sector has lost so many jobs because of government cutbacks, how can anybody hope that unemployment falls anytime soon as long as the United States faces huge debts? And the Republican remedy of austerity might be the right thing in the long run, but cuts to social spending will inevitably lead to even more lost jobs.

Perhaps the natural unemployment rate was artificially low during the boom period because of various debt bubbles, and the new natural unemployment rate will be between 6 and 7%? I rarely see this addressed, each side always claims that their policies will mean a return to pre-crisis prosperity, but that always strikes me as unlikely.

I paid $4.44 for a gallon of 91 octane gas today

Note that the United States has not been the most important driver of oil and gas prices for quite some time, no matter how much drilling you do, it will inevitably be guzzled up in large quantities by other economies like China or India, higher price levels are a reality we all have to accept.

so is it "good news" the UE rate dropped? yeah

using it as "things are working - obama's doing a good job" - NO

so republicans should NOT use this news as a "you're a liar" moment - NO WAY

but dems should not dive on the sword here

things are not good

That is right. The situation might be improving or not, but things could be better. It is no clear vindication of Obama's presidency.

[Constantine]

The numbers don't add up completely, because they come from two different sources, the household survey and the establishment survey, who are also not really reliable. Which you can see by the fact that the numbers for the last two months have been corrected upwards. Single surveys mean as much as single polls, so this could be a good sign or an outlier. But everybody has access to the two surveys, it is absurd to think they would be faked. These are civil servants whose job is in jeopardy should they lie. The same with the polls, they make their money with accurate polling, they would be insane to skew the polls in any direction.

Overall I am constantly amazed how little trust Americans have in their government; not only it's ability to get something done, but also the basic informations it provides are doubted. How can you live this way? This also extends to public figures of authority, like pollsters or scientists.

Republicans are incapable of believing in anything that doesn't start with "In the beginning. . . ."
It's amazing that they fear some twisted notion of what socialism is in America, but they can't wait to get to that big socialist community in the sky.

[Just_Believe18]

The figures are created by underlings of the President, exercising executive functions vested in the President. He can, if he wishes, brush them aside and create the figures himself. Here is his appointee--who will be out of work in Jan--lying about some of the figures.http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Governm...ers-Questioned

FALSE.

http://news.yahoo.com/officials-reje...--finance.html

The staffers who compute the U.S. unemployment rate work in an agency of the Labor Department. Officials who have overseen the work say it's prepared under tight security with no White House input or supervision.
"To think that these numbers could be manipulated. ... It's impossible to do it and get away with it," said Keith Hall, a former commissioner of the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the agency that calculates the unemployment rate.

[Text: Removed by Moderator]

[spooger]

Good news for Obama. Will it help his debate loss? I hope so.

it is good news for all of america, but i don't think it will help obama greatly ...

there are so many other objections to his politics and policies that it won't be the icing on the election ... now if some way the figures were to drop significantly lower before election time, maybe .... ??? but not likely

[GiancarloC]

FALSE.

http://news.yahoo.com/officials-reje...--finance.html



[Text: Removed by Moderator]

Yes, if these guys were to manipulate numbers they could lose their jobs and never be able to get another job. That division is under a non-partisan situation. The statistics are absolutely correct.

Spooger:

there are so many other objections to his politics and policies that it won't be the icing on the election ... now if some way the figures were to drop significantly lower before election time, maybe .... ??? but not likely

I think people may have more objections to Romney and his Bush 2.0 policies then they do with Obama. That's why I think Obama will win. It won't be a landslide, but it'll be a win.

[rareboy]

^ So, your idea is that unemployment is correcting too slowly, so we should return to the economic policies that caused it in the first place. You would prefer policies of proven failure to policies that are known to succeed because the success is too slow for you.

You believe that FDR should have gone back to Hoover's plan in 1936, and the depression would have ended sooner.

Driving off the cliff was actually a great idea. We just haven't done it often enough to appreciate its virtues.

Quoted for truth.

Why any sane person would put their faith in Romney and the GOP to steer the economy back to some semblance of health and not see that for Romney Co., this just represents the last good chance to scorch the earth in shifting as much of America's wealth to the smallest number of people....is utterly and totally beyond me.

The funniest thing around the world is to hear Americans use the price of gas in the tank as the indicator as to whether their president is doing a good job. It illustrates a depth and breadth of ignorance about how the global petro-chemical industry works and how the market is manipulated and massaged every hour of every day. The idea that Obama sets the price for regular at your pumps first thing each morning is ridiculous, but millions of Americans seem to be led to think that this is so and that all you have to do is keep drilling or piping.

News alert. It is all about refining capacity in North America. And the oil companies use every opportunity to manipulate the price of fuel based on production capacity. Republicans have to stop whining about the price of gas. It is just untrammelled private enterprise at work.

[chance1]

8% is a "symbol" or a "hammer" for the repubs to use

it's all about perceptions - and they're talking about it right now on MTP
Chuck Todd - Newt Gingrich - Robert Gibbs - Mike Murphy
really good convo

do indies (the only people who matter now) want to "change the course" ?

Gibbs has admitted (kudos to him) - "it's not where we want the economy to be" - but it's progress - 31 consec. mos. of private sector job growth

Gingrich mentioned that the IMF said recovery won't be until 2018 ........ yikes

Todd said out in the swing states he met an older woman who said "things are not good ........ but do I really want to start over?"

Mike Murphy mentioned Biden's admission that the middle class has been "buried" the past 4 years - true enough and perhaps the real story

great roundtable and gregory is doing a good job of being balanced

[GiancarloC]

Perceptions? These figures are verified and accurate. I don't see what's wrong with the figure. And yes, the economy could be generating jobs faster, but Mitt Romney's plan would reverse that and send this country right into recession. Gingrich doesn't know what he's talking about.

Mike Murphy mentioned Biden's admission that the middle class has been "buried" the past 4 years - true enough and perhaps the real story

Quote taken out of context. The comment about the middle class being buried had to do with the policies of the prior 8 years under the prior administration. And the inevitable recession that followed which Obama had nothing to do with starting. That's a nice try really.

[aagold76]

if Obama did cook the numbers- which I doubt, how would that be worse than issuing a terror alert the week before the 2002, 2004 and 2006 elections????

[BostonPirate]

Obama Didn't cook the numbers.

Every president enjoys an up tick in unemployment numbers this time of year due to holiday hiring.

This is the real deal.

Will it matter? Gallup is reporting a poll that has Obama 50 Romney 45. The importance of this one is that it was done from Oct 1-7. The poll that puts Romney ahead was done Oct 1 -4. The Unemployment numbers have already cut the Romney bounce short.

So it matters, it's real, and it's a big problem for Ryan to face with Biden, and trust me, Biden will not give Ryan a free ride on Thursday.

The GOP is in cafeteria style reality again.

[Benvolio]

It is not a question of whether Obama cooked the numbers, but whether his supporters and donors at SLB did. The circumstantial evidence is that they did.

[GiancarloC]

Where is the evidence that they did? Again, these numbers aren't cooked. There is not even circumstantial evidence. Sorry.

[aagold76]

there is a law that makes it a felony for the group that released the info to corrupt/change them in any way- Bill Maher talked about it last week.

[BostonPirate]

This ought to be a discussion about whether the rates are going to affect the polls positively, and whether they are going to affect the national economy positively.

To question and participate in the discussion of their validity is a Romney campaign event, not factual. A decent debate ought to exclude that kind of bottom feeding.

Romney's people on this board want desperately to deny and lie, but it won't pass the muster.

[Sausy]

I guess it's good news

Not sure how 114k added jobs reduces the UE rate by .3%

And they've restated prior month figures

I admit to not being all that on these numbers

Not sure how many people have left the hunt for a job

After a few months of not so good news this appears to be a positive

Basically it was using the rosiest colored glasses possible. A lot of seasonal adjustment and assumptions. Not cooked deliberately by the Obama administration but as timely good news it was a godsend after the self inflicted Obama debate disaster. Let's see what all the economic indicators say over the next month.... then we will have a clear idea going into the election if there's a something good ver the herizon or more lonely ocean as far as the eye can see.

[GiancarloC]

Basically it was using the rosiest colored glasses possible. A lot of seasonal adjustment and assumptions. Not cooked deliberately by the Obama administration but as timely good news it was a godsend after the self inflicted Obama debate disaster. Let's see what all the economic indicators say over the next month.... then we will have a clear idea going into the election if there's a something good ver the herizon or more lonely ocean as far as the eye can see.

Again where is the proof that it was with the "rosiest colored glasses possible"? Even a former Bush administration official said the figures are truthful and accurate. And there are several other sources, including Gallup, which corroborates the numbers. It's illegal for the BLS to manipulate figures and they are prohibited from having any input from the White House. There weren't assumptions at all. These are actual numbers.

[BostonPirate]

There is none, Giancarlo.

It would have been presented by now if it existed

[Jack Springer]

^^

You two are totally ignoring the people who have given up looking for work. The charts you posted do not present that fact.

We are in a very different situation regarding the unemployed. People have given up -- they get no unemployment, if they own a house or have savings -- they get no other government assistance unless they lie.

But thank goodness you have your charts.

.... and Obama has no plan other than taxing rich people.

[BostonPirate]

^^

You two are totally ignoring the people who have given up looking for work. The charts you posted do not present that fact.

We are in a very different situation regarding the unemployed. People have given up -- they get no unemployment, if they own a house or have savings -- they get no other government assistance unless they lie.

But thank goodness you have your charts.

.... and Obama has no plan other than taxing rich people.

No I am not. This is my business buddy, and that number dropped with this quarter as well. You are in Republican spin territory, and not in actual fact territory. There is a big difference between a real discussion of facts among friends and just spreading political nonsense.

You are talking about the U-6 rate, and it is dropping as well.

U-3 is the standard model that people are discussing. To change the u-6 rate, you have to alter the Work force training level, the part time work level, and the Level of education versus jobs.

BTW? Romney's number is WAY off.

[ReadyWithReadyWit]

Ben and Jack... I realize this may seem off-topic... but how old is the Earth?

[GiancarloC]

^^

You two are totally ignoring the people who have given up looking for work. The charts you posted do not present that fact.

Where am I ignoring that? Point out the direct quotation where I ignored it.

That's right. I'm not ignoring it at all. But look at the report again please, a record number of people came back onto the workforce. So that statement about people leaving the workforce is absolutely erroneous, false and has no basis in reality.

We are in a very different situation regarding the unemployed. People have given up -- they get no unemployment, if they own a house or have savings -- they get no other government assistance unless they lie.

Is that why a record number of people have come back into the workforce? Look at the numbers again please.

.... and Obama has no plan other than taxing rich people.

Uhhhh huh, and what are the plans of Romney? Asides from "bringing stability"? Romney changes his views like the wind changes direction. As I said before the man has more positions then a porn star.

[BostonPirate]

Romney has no understanding of economics... well either that or he is counting on his followers to not know the truth.

[chance1]

Romney has no understanding of economics... well either that or he is counting on his followers to not know the truth.

Last week in front of 67 million viewers, Romney gave Obama an economics LESSON

he SCHOOLED him

the Pres. was speechless (imagine that)

so if Romney has "no understanding of economics" what does that make the President?

LOL

btw the Pres. and his team took the day off from calling Mitt a liar today

instead they did an ad with Big Bird in it ......... and then found out that The Sesame Workshop wants them to take it down

what a bunch of tools

[BostonPirate]

Romney lied his way through a debate.

There was no schooling. Sorry to rain on your little parade there, champ.

[GiancarloC]

Chance, Romney didn't give anyone a lesson, nor did he school anyone. Where are the specifics I'm practically pleading for? Where are the specifics in Romney's "plan"? Obama came with the facts, but facts are boring... people like the used car salesman schick that Romney had during the entire debate. Obama didn't do well... but he got frustrated with Romney's inability to discuss specifics.

Yes, Romney has absolutely no understanding of economics. His erroneous statements on college students and the petroleum industry prove it.

Romney didn't school anyone. He just gave viewers sugarcoated bullshit. I again ask... I BEG... I IMPLORE ANYONE give me SPECIFICS of his "plan". And don't just say "he'll bring stability". This is the man that changes his beliefs more then the wind changes direction.

And yes he's a liar. What's the harm in saying the truth about him? Romney can't keep his story straight. And his lies will backfire.

[chance1]

Romney lied his way through a debate.

There was no schooling. Sorry to rain on your little parade there, champ.

well the 67% of those polled didn't think so - they agreed with me
the 20% agreed with you

i'm dry as a bone - how bout u?

[Sausy]

Obama fucked up. I'm not in love with Romney but he gets NO quarter here. Every nasty thing written by his detractors....I don't really agree with Romney on all the issues and I did rip him here on his absolutely wrongheaded 47% statement. Yet he is considered the vilest of people ,probably sociopathic, ALWAYS lies and it's cartoonish and pathetic. It's going to be interesting when they have the foreign policy oriented debate how small Obama is going to look there... yes,he got bin Laden....then after saying we don't spike the football and gloat, to ramp up his foreign policy bona fides they do the whole bin Laden thing and not only spike the football but moonwalk and do a shimmy on the end zone. There's no dialogue here, little introspection on the left for sure.... no graciousness, no good will towards anyone other than their favored ones. The day after Election Day might be a VERY interesting day around the country and here in particular. Mighty interesting, indeed.

[Rolyo85]

Yeah, Romney will look mighty big when it comes to foreign politics. All his knowledge and elegance will shine.

[T-Rexx]

Back to unemployment.

I was surprised to discover recently that Obama has created more jobs (on a percentage basis) during his first (almost) four years than GWB did during his first four years. In fact, Obama has created about twice as great a percentage increase in jobs as did GWB during his first term. This is despite Bush's vaunted tax cuts, which were supposed to create so many jobs. The tax cuts didn't. In fact, GWB had the worst jobs performance during his first four years of any president since the Great Depression. And that includes Obama.

During his second term, Bush suffered a huge net loss of jobs, which more than wiped out the historically tiny performance of his first administration. That means that, despite the Bush tax cuts, GWB suffered the greatest known loss of jobs over the course of his term in office of any president since Herbert Hoover.

Obama's jobs creation performance has been reasonably good, from a historical perspective. Considering the circumstances he inherited, Obama's jobs creation has been remarkable!

Now, Romney says he's going to create jobs the same way GWB lost them - with tax cuts.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jobs_cr...idential_terms

[GiancarloC]

Obama fucked up. I'm not in love with Romney but he gets NO quarter here. Every nasty thing written by his detractors....I don't really agree with Romney on all the issues and I did rip him here on his absolutely wrongheaded 47% statement.

Did he now?

Well the defense of Romney seems to be evident...

Yet he is considered the vilest of people ,probably sociopathic, ALWAYS lies and it's cartoonish and pathetic.

It has to do with his serious lack of substance and his inability to hold a position. The guy changes views like the wind changes direction.

Obama's administration has been decent and has had a steady hand. Romney has NOT demonstrated it. I will NOT take Romney seriously because the fool can't make a statement without contradicting himself a few days later. That kind of uncertainty and bullshit will slide this country right back into recession. And I do not take fondly of those who masquerade in a veil of "non-partisanship" while ripping into the President non-stop. Please stop the fake neutrality.

[Benvolio]

Back to unemployment.

I was surprised to discover recently that Obama has created more jobs (on a percentage basis) during his first (almost) four years than GWB did during his first four years. In fact, Obama has created about twice as great a percentage increase in jobs as did GWB during his first term. This is despite Bush's vaunted tax cuts, which were supposed to create so many jobs. The tax cuts didn't. In fact, GWB had the worst jobs performance during his first four years of any president since the Great Depression. And that includes Obama.

During his second term, Bush suffered a huge net loss of jobs, which more than wiped out the historically tiny performance of his first administration. That means that, despite the Bush tax cuts, GWB suffered the greatest known loss of jobs over the course of his term in office of any president since Herbert Hoover.

Obama's jobs creation performance has been reasonably good, from a historical perspective. Considering the circumstances he inherited, Obama's jobs creation has been remarkable!

Now, Romney says he's going to create jobs the same way GWB lost them - with tax cuts.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jobs_cr...idential_terms

Obama did not create jobs, but during his Administration, some of the jobs lost in the first two years of the Democrat Congress 2007 and 8, came back. Obviously, the reason for the big rise during Obama was made possible by the drop in the prior two years. He was starting from a lower point. Before you give him credit, remember, he brought in a million immigrants a year to take the jobs and gave green cards to 3 million so they could take jobs from Americans. We are not making progress, like a rat on a treadmill.

[FuryOfFirestorm]

Obama did not create jobs, but during his Administration, some of the jobs lost in the first two years of the Democrat Congress 2007 and 8, came back. Obviously, the reason for the big rise during Obama was made possible by the drop in the prior two years. He was starting from a lower point. Before you give him credit, remember, he brought in a million immigrants a year to take the jobs and gave green cards to 3 million so they could take jobs from Americans. We are not making progress, like a rat on a treadmill.

Looks like Benny is blaming immigrants without any proof...again. Must be a day that ends in "y".

[rareboy]

^ It is all so depressingly repetitive isn't it?

It is interesting that the Obama haters just a fit to explode with the idea that the unemployment rate is decreasing as the American economy struggles, in spite of a disastrous and destructive legislative branch, to recover from the body blows it took because of the Bush era fuck ups.

[evanrick]

.... and Obama has no plan other than taxing rich people.

Number 1 Jack, the rich already pay taxes.
Number 2 Jack, they dont pay enough.

What is Romneys plan other than cutting taxes for rich people?

You live in a warped world sir.

Woe the day your greed is the end of America.

[Benvolio]

Romney has no plan to cut taxes for rich people or anyone else. His plan is to lower rates, while eliminating deductions and cutting expenses.

[Jack Springer]

You're reacting to Obama campaign's selective interpretation of the Romney plan.

You attacked me and Romney and still did not list any of the proposals of an Obama plan.

Can you tell me some of Obama's ideas to increase employment?

Give me a reason to vote for Obama.

Number 1 Jack, the rich already pay taxes.
Number 2 Jack, they dont pay enough.

What is Romneys plan other than cutting taxes for rich people?

You live in a warped world sir.

Woe the day your greed is the end of America.

[Kulindahr]

Can you tell me some of Obama's ideas to increase employment?

Give me a reason to vote for Obama.

He tried for a bill to help small businesses that would have generated over a million jobs -- Romney's friends killed it.

He tried for a bill to help veterans, that would have created up to a million jobs -- Romney's friends killed it.

There have been others, but those are from this year alone!

I'll add one: Obama proposed legislation to allow foreign students who had certain needed skills and/or who had partnered in starting businesses while here legally to remain here legally, a move that would have generated two or more jobs for each one who stayed -- and Romney's friends killed it. Over five years to could have created two million jobs.

On just those, Obama favored legislation that would have resulted in the private sector generating four million jobs.

[GiancarloC]

Obama did not create jobs, but during his Administration, some of the jobs lost in the first two years of the Democrat Congress 2007 and 8, came back. Obviously, the reason for the big rise during Obama was made possible by the drop in the prior two years. He was starting from a lower point. Before you give him credit, remember, he brought in a million immigrants a year to take the jobs and gave green cards to 3 million so they could take jobs from Americans. We are not making progress, like a rat on a treadmill.

The economy was falling apart because of the republicans. The recession was in the making for years. This wasn't because of the Democrat congress. Can you post actual proof? Deregulation and financial abuse were going on for years. And you are still trying to spin it to blame it on democrats? What kind of argument is this? Where is the proof? And Obama's deported more immigrants then the last guy.

More fucking progress then what the republican party is promising... the republican party is suggesting policies that'll send this economy tail spinning into another recession.

[frankfrank]

the republican party is suggesting policies that'll send this economy tail spinning into another recession to its death.

Fixed it for you.