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  1. #401
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    I got in late, and my mom brought me up to date with a quick summary: "The young guy keeps lying and the Vice President isn't jumping on him hard enough".

    If my mom, who doesn't follow politics, can tell Ryan is lying, he's got a problem.

    Of course the neocons won't care about truth; they'll think he's winning even if he throws up on the moderator and dribbles diarrhea across the stage.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  2. #402
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    Fox "News" and AM hate radio will be all over the "Biden's laughing and smirking" thing tomorrow. Since there were no real gaffe's from Joe, his style of speaking is all they have to work with... I can hear it now, "America's problems are nothing to laugh at ! The Obama/Biden ticket just doesn't understand that !!"

    But there are different forms of laughter, aren't there ? Some from humor, some from sheer incredulousness.

    For example, Ryan all but saying that abortion is a mortal sin and Romney will do his best to eliminate a woman's right to an abortion on that infamous "day one" he keeps referring to...

    But wait ! At the same time, they want to eliminate Planned Parenthood as well ! You know, those folks who provided health care, cancer screenings AND CONTRACEPTION to 10's of thousands of low income young women across America.

    So, remember: Abortion is wrong, and supplying contraception to the poor is wrong as well.

    I'd laugh with incredulousness, too.

    P.S. And for what it's worth, Ryan's "perma-smirck" was BY FAR the most annoying event of the evening.
    Last edited by Joshua_me; October 11th, 2012 at 11:53 PM.



  3. #403
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    Biden clearly won this debate in all that actually matters. Overall, the polls seem to be a bit mixed. However, among "undecideds" and reenergizing the base, which is all that matters, Biden consistently won by a decent margin. If the prez had done so, this election would have been over. This 100% stops the bleeding and, while I sincerely doubt it will make up substantial ground, I do anticipate a little bounce. Going into the debate, Romney was polling about +1% ahead... by Sunday, I expect this to reverse to Obama +1%... perhaps an even slightly higher bounce in important swing states. For good and bad, Joe stole the show... he had all of the sound bites... (and no gaffes)... and really opened wounds in the Romney campaign that Obama left sealed... no big ideas, impossible math, women's rights, 47%, the auto industry, and so on... And, the Obama campaign gets to see what worked so next week, we get an Obama who actually hits these talking points and does so without the over-the-top Biden laughs and smirks... can't wait...

    And, Raddatz... a-fucking-mazing... and fair down the middle... first question about Libya... and pressed Ryan on (his complete lack of) details regarding taxes/Afghanistan...
    Last edited by ReadyWithReadyWit; October 11th, 2012 at 11:52 PM.

  4. #404

    Re: The Debate Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    I got in late, and my mom brought me up to date with a quick summary: "The young guy keeps lying and the Vice President isn't jumping on him hard enough".

    If my mom, who doesn't follow politics, can tell Ryan is lying, he's got a problem.

    Of course the neocons won't care about truth; they'll think he's winning even if he throws up on the moderator and dribbles diarrhea across the stage.
    You could tell Ryan was lying every time he went for that cup of water to wash the bullshit out of his mouth.

  5. #405

    Re: The Debate Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by chance1 View Post
    ryan is calm and composed

    biden is not
    Ryan always looks like a grown up Eddie Munster caught doing something bad. He looked like every man accused of being a child molester on Law and Order.
    So happy to see Ol' Joe give him the pimp hand.

    "Oh so you're Jack Kennedy now?"

    Get it, Joe! Get it!!

  6. #406

    Re: The Debate Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by chance1 View Post
    the moderator was great btw

    biden is a good man - he just has no control over himself - which is a problem to have as a vp
    Actually, the point of a VP is to be the attack dog. That's how Cheney turned momentum around when Bush lost to Kerry in their first debate in 2004.

    The problem with Ryan is that he's been muzzled by the campaign. He can't tout what he really believes because his running mate has no core beliefs. So when Romney's lurching all over the opinion poll map trying to please everyone, Ryan has no choice but to keep quiet and go for the ride. Now, he's boxed in and he clearly showed his inexperience on foreign policy and AGAIN was unable to give the American public details in regards to his and Romney's tax plan.

    This is supposed to the "numbers guy" and he's coming off like the Running Man. EVERYBODY keeps asking for the MATH, and he can't give us the math because the math doesn't work; at least, not with a calculator from Earth (I'm not sure how calculators work on Kolob or Bizarro World).
    Last edited by Constantine; October 12th, 2012 at 01:30 AM.

  7. #407
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sausy View Post
    Bravo!!! Best,most honest answer of the night.... I don't care what political perspective you come from personally,if you're intellectually honest and forthright about the whole thing. It's mostly theater and spin.
    Personally, that's how I've always been. It gets me in trouble with friends and conversations that start out about a particular subject and end with me being an asshole. There are two big things that are smacking me in the face, and are downright hilarious to me. Obama is Obama, and once you get past the ridiculous rhetoric, has been a decent president. He needs to use to bully pulpit more, but that is neither here nor there.

    I have never met a Romney supporter, ever. Most people are voting against someone, rather than vote for someone. That is very telling.

    Every landscape has been exactly the same. Whether it is CEP or Facebook, my wall is bombarded with Obama this, Romney that. It is quite annoying and I'll leave this. You would look at someone as if they were an idiot if you asked them why they like (or don't like) bananas and they started discussing their like (or dislike)of oranges.
    Last edited by archive; October 12th, 2012 at 02:15 AM.

  8. #408
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    Someone needs to call Todd Akin, because that was legitimate rape. Ryan's vagina wasn't able to shut this down.


  9. #409
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    I watched the debate via the Washington Post website, which had a live opinion ticker on the page, and it overwhelmingly showed support for Biden's comments over Paul Ryan's.

    As usual, when asked for financial specifics Ryan simply dodged and weaved. But it was glaringly obvious. I can't believe anybody could have watched that segment and felt Ryan came out looking like anything but a smarmy, dodging politician.

    I liked the format, good moderation, and both performed quite well overall. I don't think anyone who sides for either candidate would have been swayed to the other side. For my money, I thought Biden came across as more genuine, more experienced, and more informed.

    But maybe that's my own bias? Personally, I think Biden's one of the few US politicians left who actually knows what he's talking about AND says what he thinks.
    Last edited by andysayshi; October 12th, 2012 at 03:58 AM.

  10. #410
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    [Quoted Post: Removed by Moderator]
    Lol - queue up the standard refrain

    The "Obama haters"

    As for Biden it's obvious that "joe being joe" is the excuse for his antics

    How does man who behaves like that look at a world leader and have a serious discussion ?

    How does the admin square his behavior with the fact that at any moment Biden could be the Pres.

    He is not a congressman on the stump rabble rousing the base

    This is a national audience - a speaker who clearly needs skills he does not own

    Showing the American people how not to debate a point

    I love Biden

    But he's a mess
    Last edited by opinterph; October 12th, 2012 at 10:13 PM. Reason: removed verbiage quoted from another poster

  11. #411

    Re: The Debate Thread

    Which man looked presidential?

    It certainly wasn't Biden.

    Biden came off as a caricature of himself -- weird facial expressions, rolling eyes, smirking, rudeness, interruptions. Crazy uncle Joe may have scored some points with those who saw Obama fail last week. Biden acted like he was actually interested in being there.

    Ryan kept his cool. Biden came off as a crazy man to me. Unstable.

    To people who don't know either -- Ryan looked great.

    Ryan won by being focused, stable, and answering questions. He deserves the win with putting up with Biden consistent rude interruptions.

    I was amazed how Biden dug the hole deeper on the Libyan issue . . . looks like we are seeing a new watergate unfold right before our eyes.

  12. #412
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Which man looked presidential?

    It certainly wasn't Biden.

    To people who don't know either -- Ryan looked great.
    Biden looked like he always has, even before winning VP 4 years ago when American voters gave him the title. There was nothing Biden did last night to make all those same voters say "wow, Biden has changed since 4 years ago, what was I thinking?" He was still the same guy showing he is passionate about fighting for them.

    To voters who don't know Biden? You mean the voters who recently arrived here from another planet? Or maybe those "undecided" voters who don't seem to ever "know" any candidate until election day?

  13. #413
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by LuvFindsAndyHardy View Post
    bill maher on twitter: "Hello 9 1 1? There s an old man beating a child on my tv"
    I just saw that this morning; nearly made me spit my coffee.

    Glad to see that Maher is happier this week and getting more value from his $million.

  14. #414
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    The clear winner was Grandpa Biden. He got to show off his new teeth all evening.
    Everyone wants to be heard. No one wants to listen.

  15. #415
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    Click image for larger version. 

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  16. #416
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    It was a spirited debate. Biden would have had the edge had he not smirked, giggled, laughed and smiled inappropriately and incessantly or interrupted some 80 plus times. People were put off by that. Most of the polls show it within a couple of points one way or another. At the end of the day, zero net effect.

  17. #417
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jackoroe View Post
    It was a spirited debate. Biden would have had the edge had he not smirked, giggled, laughed and smiled inappropriately and incessantly or interrupted some 80 plus times. People were put off by that. Most of the polls show it within a couple of points one way or another. At the end of the day, zero net effect.
    Thing that's interesting is that personally Joe Biden is well regarded on booth sides of the aisle but he does the attack dog thing very well when it is needed by the Administration. Glad to see the more balanced polls splash cold water on the giddy Dems who probably were just so gleeful someone on the presidential ticket showed up instead of impersonating a cipher for most of the evening.
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  18. #418
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jackoroe View Post
    It was a spirited debate. Biden would have had the edge had he not smirked, giggled, laughed and smiled inappropriately and incessantly or interrupted some 80 plus times. People were put off by that. Most of the polls show it within a couple of points one way or another. At the end of the day, zero net effect.
    Honest people like a guy who interrupts when the other guy is spewing bullshit.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  19. #419
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sausy View Post
    Thing that's interesting is that personally Joe Biden is well regarded on booth sides of the aisle but he does the attack dog thing very well when it is needed by the Administration. Glad to see the more balanced polls splash cold water on the giddy Dems who probably were just so gleeful someone on the presidential ticket showed up instead of impersonating a cipher for most of the evening.
    If you mean Obama at the first debate, you've got it wrong -- he wasn't a cipher, he was more like one of those TV show narrators who don't really care about what they're saying so there's no life in the voice: saying good, useful things, but like it was about as important as a phone book.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  20. #420

    Re: The Debate Thread

    Biden lied about voting against the wars in Iraq and Afganistan as a US Senator.

    Sen Biden voted to use US force against Iraq. Resolution passed 77-23
    http://votesmart.org/bill/3083/7880/...q#.UHhN0rRSVnI

    Sen Biden voted to authorize military force in Afganistan.
    http://votesmart.org/bill/3148/7830/...n#.UHhOfbRSVnI


    But I doubt that any MSM outlet will say anything.

  21. #421
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    What is Romney trying to do. Pin something wrong with what Biden said? I mean were any secrets told in error?
    BEWARE! Harassing the Indian may result in sudden and severe hair loss.

  22. #422
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by aagold76 View Post
    let me see if I have this right...when Romney interrupts the moderator and smirks through out- he's being Presidential and assertive.... when Biden interrupts and smirks at Ryan- he's being rude?
    If your position is that Biden's antics mirrored Romney's performance vs Obama

    It's just not plausible

    Energy and passion are wonderful and welcomed

    Interruption, condescension, eye rolls and pointing

    Something else entirely

    Your POV is no where to be found in any legitimate space

    FYI - RCP polls have Romney up a point after pre debate 1 had Obama up 5

    Thus a 6 point pre/post swing for mittens

    The truth sets u free

    And it can hurt ...... If you're for the incumbent

  23. #423
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    Here is the bottom line... fact checked Ryan lied 24 times in 90 minutes while Biden was verified for his candor.

    Nobody votes for the VP but Biden just gave the Dems a breath of fresh air.

    Ryan didn't embarrass the party.

    I agree with the initial analysis on Ryan for style but Biden for substance.

    TIE
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    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  24. #424

    Re: The Debate Thread

    RCP electoral page is almost completely upside down from a month ago.

    States solidly under Obama are down to four and Electoral Votes down to 201 -- Romney has moved up to 181.

    This could easily change tomorrow. Interesting stuff.

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epo...llege_map.html

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    Here is the bottom line... fact checked Ryan lied 24 times in 90 minutes while Biden was verified for his candor.

    Nobody votes for the VP but Biden just gave the Dems a breath of fresh air.

    Ryan didn't embarrass the party.

    I agree with the initial analysis on Ryan for style but Biden for substance.

    TIE
    How many times did Biden lie -- and how big were the lies?

  25. #425
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    I have looked at the fact checkers and not found glaring lies. Feel free to share some factual information on that if you have some. not a biased blog from either side of the aisle..

    Politifact held some partial truths from Biden but most of the absolute falsehoods and mostly false statements came out of Ryan's mouth.

    In fact Ryan even invoked the 2010 lie of the year... because morons believe it.

    Ryan, in his closing statement, said Obama "made his choices," including "a government takeover of health care." The phrase is simply not true. "Government takeover" conjures a European approach where the government owns the hospitals and the doctors are public employees. But Obama's health care law relies largely on the free market. We voted "a government takeover of health care" our Lie of the Year for 2010.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
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  26. #426

    Re: The Debate Thread

    It was the best debate in decades. Possibly the best ever.
    Biden wiped the floor with the poor kid. Goober never knew what hit him.
    I am so glad someone finally called the kid out on his preposterous lies.
    The media usually gives him a pass on everything. Biden finally said it's all bullshit.
    I laughed too, at every insane lie Ryan tried to spout... laughed right along with Biden
    What's really hilarious is Republicans today trying to ridicule Biden. They know they got trounced.
    Look what Romney did in the first debate... bullying the moderator, interrupting Obama, a blizzard of lies...
    after that Republicans were acting like he was the savior of the world, walking on water...
    Then Biden comes out swinging, tells it like it is, laughs at the ridiculous lies...
    ...and now suddenly they say, "oh, no, that's not allowed in a debate!" LOL...

  27. #427
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    In my opinion, this debate was not even close.

    First...loved the format and moderator. I thought it was one of the more informative debates I've seen in my life. Good questions. Sitting at the desk made it more conversational and confrontational, which is what a debate should be...some free flow of discussion. Although, Ryan seemed a little scared to come out of his shell, opting instead to be "presidential" whatever the hell that is. He definitely seemed intimidated. Biden decided to be Truman for the evening.

    Both guys clearly stated their differences and made solid arguments. Biden looked like a mob boss and Ryan looked like Eddie the Monster. Biden won me with his passion and vigor. I fear some got viewers may have got caught up in shallow issues like his smiling and interrupting...but it is a debate. I want and expect to see them go after each other when they disagree as opposed to Obama just letting lies slide by to potentially re-invent themselves as truth.

    I'll admit that Biden re-acting in exasperation so many times took away the credibilty of the expression after the 15th time. But, he knows who his audience is. And I like that he re-iterated "middle class" like 100 times; Ryan would have been smart to have countered that better. Ryan, for his part, was credible and likeable. Kinda of nerdy and a policy wonk, but that's who Ryan is just like Biden is a blunt, confrontational fighter. Ryan reminded me of a school kid trying to show off what he studied the night before--not so much with domestic issues but with foreign affairs. He was reciting the names of every city and region he could recall in these countries just to make is 'sound' like he knew what he was talking about.

    Biden wins because he simply stated his case better. I think more issues are on his side. Obama just didn't make the case last week...twice he started an economic question off with 'hire more teachers' WTF?

    Side Note: It was curios watching that CNN reaction line. Last week, women were consistently higher for Obama than Romney; last night, it was consistently higher with women for Ryan. Females do like the more passive debate style.

  28. #428
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    Fact checker arguments are ......

    Post debate "stuff" aka malarkey

    All the "stuff" about Mitt - lies .....

    6 point swing for Mitt

    So ........

    Debates are moments in time - and post debate blather is not likely to change people's perceptions

    Biden was Freddy Krueger btw
    Ryan Eddie Munster

  29. #429
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    It's not clear if Biden "lied about his war votes", because his grammar wasn't clear that those were what he meant -- he listed four items and said he didn't vote for them. He did against the drug plan and the tax cut; he didn't for the wars.

    I won't call it a lie; I will call it misleading.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  30. #430

    Re: The Debate Thread

    Last week the Republicans argued that the first debate was a "game changer" and that Romney's bounce from that debate would propel him to victory... now they're saying "debates are moments in time and post debate blather is not likely to change people's perceptions..." First a debate is an earth-shaking incident... now a debate is meaningless... ha ha ha!

  31. #431
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    Basically the best way i like to view it is rather easy. Republicans are bitching about the moderator and the process because they lost.

    Just like last week.

    Still i dont think it moves very much opinion. All in all it will be a tie. I do agree with you that it is the best national debate I have watched in the last 26 years.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
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  32. #432

    Re: The Debate Thread

    Nate Silver gets his info from the Obama Campaign. He's sold his soul to work for the NYT.

  33. #433

    Re: The Debate Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    It's not clear if Biden "lied about his war votes", because his grammar wasn't clear that those were what he meant -- he listed four items and said he didn't vote for them. He did against the drug plan and the tax cut; he didn't for the wars.

    I won't call it a lie; I will call it misleading.
    Interesting what you call a lie.

    Truth doesn't come into play ... does it?

  34. #434

    Re: The Debate Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    I have looked at the fact checkers and not found glaring lies. Feel free to share some factual information on that if you have some. not a biased blog from either side of the aisle..

    Politifact held some partial truths from Biden but most of the absolute falsehoods and mostly false statements came out of Ryan's mouth.

    In fact Ryan even invoked the 2010 lie of the year... because morons believe it.
    Politifact would do better if it wasn't so selective in choosing what to look at -- Biden lied many times including his yes votes on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, requirements of religious institutions to provide contraceptive and abortion services, knowledge of what happened in Libya -- none of which were called into question on Politifact.

  35. #435
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    One glaring thing I just thought of -- Biden said the administration was not aware of any requests for more security before the September 11th attacks.

    He lied.

    I hope the press pushes him on this -- but I have my doubts.
    Those wouldn't have necessarily even reached Hillary.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: The Debate Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Interesting what you call a lie.

    Truth doesn't come into play ... does it?
    I gave you truth.

    I suppose truth doesn't come into play, because you and Benvolio and company ignore it.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: The Debate Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Politifact would do better if it wasn't so selective in choosing what to look at -- Biden lied many times including his yes votes on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, requirements of religious institutions to provide contraceptive and abortion services, knowledge of what happened in Libya -- none of which were called into question on Politifact.
    Biden didn't lie about those -- he described the letter of the law. Ryan and those who believe him are going on emotion, not fact.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  38. #438
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bw92116 View Post
    Last week the Republicans argued that the first debate was a "game changer" and that Romney's bounce from that debate would propel him to victory... now they're saying "debates are moments in time and post debate blather is not likely to change people's perceptions..." First a debate is an earth-shaking incident... now a debate is meaningless... ha ha ha!
    not sure what you're talking about

    the first debate WAS a game changer - 6 points worth

    people saw and heard with THEIR OWN eyes/ears - not thru the Obama lens

    Obama and his stooges did the week after "he's a liar" play and guess what ............ not received well

    he and his campaign are mr. negative and the public is tired of it

    this debate at best for the dems is a wash - look at the polls

    the only reason biden's behavior was acceptable was because obama was mute a week ago - on average they're normal

    independently a freak show

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    Re: The Debate Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by chance1 View Post
    Obama and his stooges did the week after "he's a liar" play and guess what ............ not received well

    he and his campaign are mr. negative and the public is tired of it
    It's a tragic day for the Republic when a debater can "win" and no one wants to hear that he didn't tell the truth.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: The Debate Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    One glaring thing I just thought of -- Biden said the administration was not aware of any requests for more security before the September 11th attacks.

    He lied.

    I hope the press pushes him on this -- but I have my doubts.
    From the Foreign Policy website:

    "The State Department security officials who testified before House Oversight Committee Chairman Darrell Issa's panel Wednesday never said they had made their requests to the president, Rhodes pointed out. That would be natural because the State Department is responsible for diplomatic security, not the White House , he said. Rhodes also pointed out that the officials were requesting more security in Tripoli, not Benghazi ."

    http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/po...ghazi_security
    Last edited by opinterph; October 12th, 2012 at 09:11 PM. Reason: added quote tags

  41. #441
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    For the "oh so very concerned but surprisingly silent while Bush was in office" crowd:

    [Quote removed by moderator] 2012 Media Matters for America. All rights reserved.

    Original Source Link (added by moderator): http://mediamatters.org/research/201...-bash-o/189890
    There's a whole lot more dead that you don't give a fuck about. The only reason you care now is you're making political hay over the deaths of an American, a death that Mitt was overjoyed to see happen.
    Last edited by opinterph; October 12th, 2012 at 09:20 PM. Reason: removed full verbatim quote from copyrighted source; added source link; added quote tags; Refer to CE&P Posting Guidelines

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    Re: The Debate Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    It's a tragic day for the Republic when a debater can "win" and no one wants to hear that he didn't tell the truth.
    Very well said, Kuli. Obama was horrible last week...no doubt about it; however, Romney re-inventing his own policies "moderate Mitt-style" should be addressed. Being a dreadful debater does not mean Obama policiies are wrong...it means he debated poorly. That's like if QB Tom Brady has a dreadful game this week, why the hell would you fire him? Romney won on style...yes, indeed...he had passion and he 'sounded' like he had his act together, but history matters...and his history contradicts the beliefs he so passionately communicated last week. The country needs to know that.

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    Re: The Debate Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sammie13 View Post
    Very well said, Kuli. Obama was horrible last week...no doubt about it; however, Romney re-inventing his own policies "moderate Mitt-style" should be addressed. Being a dreadful debater does not mean Obama policiies are wrong...it means he debated poorly. That's like if QB Tom Brady has a dreadful game this week, why the hell would you fire him? Romney won on style...yes, indeed...he had passion and he 'sounded' like he had his act together, but history matters...and his history contradicts the beliefs he so passionately communicated last week. The country needs to know that.
    speech is all he has

    if he can't do that ........

    he can't talk about his policies - cuz they're not working

    he has not plans to jump start the economy

    raising taxes on the "super wealthy" which is what joe biden referred to those making 250k ....... is not the answer

    it's not even a start

    mitt is a moderate - that's how he governed massachusetts

    that's how he got elected in the most liberal state in the country

    obama's presidency is a failure and if it wasn't he'd be way ahead

    but it is so he isn't

    obama is no tom brady - LOL

    more like mark sanchez

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    Re: The Debate Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by chance1 View Post
    he can't talk about his policies - cuz they're not working

    he has not plans to jump start the economy
    After all this time, you still ignore facts.

    Obama had plans to jumpstart the economy. He backed bills to create at least two million jobs in the private sector. He urged a program to let talented foreign students who had shown they could create American jobs to stay.

    The problem is that the Republicans are so greedy for power that they vote against the American people over and over. Obama's policies aren't "not working" -- the Republicans won't let them be tried, probably because they know those policies would work, and they don't want Obama getting any credit.

    Quote Originally Posted by chance1 View Post
    raising taxes on the "super wealthy" which is what joe biden referred to those making 250k ....... is not the answer

    it's not even a start
    Of course it's a start -- patriotic Republicans like Eisenhower and Reagan knew it was a start.

    I do disagree with the cutoff, though those making 250k+ should be required to go back to Reagan tax rates. We need a new bracket above them, for those making $550k+, at ten points higher than those at $250k, and another for those making $1mn or more, at another ten percent higher -- with that extra revenue dedicated to repairing bridges on our national highways.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  45. #445
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    The issue being downplayed here is how the Republicans have done everything they can to sabotage the Obama presidency even resulting in the credit rating being downgraded. Why would anyone with a full functioning brain want to derail Obamacare?

    Because they don't want Obama to get credit for the good results his policies would achieve. If Obama wins the 2nd term and the economy improves it would be hard for the Republicans to have a chance at the Presidency. Republicans know very well that recessions are cyclical so one way or another the economy HAS to improve they just don't want it to improve with Obama in the office because they want to paint him as an ineffective president.

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    Re: The Debate Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by chance1 View Post
    speech is all he has

    if he can't do that ........

    he can't talk about his policies - cuz they're not working

    he has not plans to jump start the economy

    raising taxes on the "super wealthy" which is what joe biden referred to those making 250k ....... is not the answer

    it's not even a start

    mitt is a moderate - that's how he governed massachusetts

    that's how he got elected in the most liberal state in the country

    obama's presidency is a failure and if it wasn't he'd be way ahead

    but it is so he isn't

    obama is no tom brady - LOL

    more like mark sanchez
    Bush and the GOP spent 8 years creating this mess and I think the right thing to do is allow the Dems an equal amount of time to correct it. Plus, what a mess we would have un-doing ObamaCare.

    And there is NO evidence that Moderate Mitt would be governing the US....in fact, I say no way...follow the money trail when you have questions....and the $ trail on the GOP is hardcore on social issues. They would NEVER allow Romney to be a moderate. As he started his swing to the left last week, you'll notice the 'right' bit their lips after all his debate economic moderation but a few days later when he slipped left on abortion, they shut his ass down pronto. His administration would be the same way.

    And if Obama is Mark Sanchez, then Romney is Tim Tebow, slippery and shifty with a 'thank you, Jesus' but can't throw an accurate deep ball for the life of him.

  47. #447
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    Before debates


    Now

  48. #448

    Re: The Debate Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeyLove View Post
    ...and they are covertly racists, as they didn't want an Black Person in Office, especially one that is smarter than they are.
    Just because he can speak well off a teleprompter doesn't make him a good President.

    The man has not nurtured any relationships with anyone from Congress including people from his own party. He hasn't a clue on how to get along with people.

    Using the racist card should be as limited as using the nazi card.

  49. #449

    Re: The Debate Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    I often ask... how is Obamas Presidency a failure? How so? .
    Look at what progress has been made in the economy. That should answer your question.

    We are in one hell of a mess right now -- heading off a economic cliff. Another recession is within sight -- maybe one that will kill the world's economy.

    Obama offers no leadership, no plan.

    He campaigns. If he gets re-elected -- what will he do. He can't campaign anymore -- will he just play golf all the time?

    Please point out an Obama economic plan to me. I'm not talking about the "union jobs bill" he's proposed either -- I'm talking about a real economic plan -- an idea.

  50. #450

    Re: The Debate Thread


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