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  1. #451
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    That is an amusing collection of GOP sheeple who are now all on the stump for Romney. The only GOPer I give credit to is someone like Jon Huntsman who said i didn't win and I wont endorse Romney... or a Crist who jumped ship because they took the L train to crazy town. All of these folks with no recollection of what they originally thought about Romney will not get my vote.

    And yes pundits of the right who are digging ever so fervently to find anything to stand on...I realize Hillary said Obama was unprepared to lead when she was running. However unprepared to lead is a hell of a leap away from calling a person a liar.

    I am gonna steal a line from Centex: "My pappy once told me, I would rather be in a room full of murders than one filled with liars and thieves cause at least i know what the murder is after"
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  2. #452
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by AngolaZee View Post
    Why would anyone with a full functioning brain want to derail Obamacare?
    Because it's a sell-out to corporations.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  3. #453

    Re: The Debate Thread

    I'm sorry that you've decided in your mind that the economy is great -- try telling that to the millions of Americans that are unemployed, under-employed, the people who have lost value in their savings and value of their houses.

    Leaders have the ability to get things started and inspire people to do things -- Obama has not done that.

    Continue to whine that the republicans have kept him for doing anything -- he had two years to do something about the economy and chose to back a mostly union plan of almost $1 trillion of shovel ready projects that he admitted himself later didn't exist.

    I ask you again -- where is his plan for jump-starting the economy?

  4. #454
    Banned chance1's Avatar
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sammie13 View Post
    Bush and the GOP spent 8 years creating this mess and I think the right thing to do is allow the Dems an equal amount of time to correct it. Plus, what a mess we would have un-doing ObamaCare.

    And there is NO evidence that Moderate Mitt would be governing the US....in fact, I say no way...follow the money trail when you have questions....and the $ trail on the GOP is hardcore on social issues. They would NEVER allow Romney to be a moderate. As he started his swing to the left last week, you'll notice the 'right' bit their lips after all his debate economic moderation but a few days later when he slipped left on abortion, they shut his ass down pronto. His administration would be the same way.

    And if Obama is Mark Sanchez, then Romney is Tim Tebow, slippery and shifty with a 'thank you, Jesus' but can't throw an accurate deep ball for the life of him.
    more Bush ........ sad

    and I view Obama's first 3 almost 4 as a "sunk cost" - no sense in spending good money after bad

    and I've never heard of an 8 year investment that wasn't predicated on evaluating the return in years 5-8

    Obama's strategy is taxing the rich and borrowing more money to pay for entitlements that he has promised to his voting base

    There is no end in sight with him

    With Romney there is hope that his skill set will help get business moving again

    It's clear - right or wrong - that business leaders do NOT support Obama and are NOT investing in this economy

    Romney provides a glimmer of hope IMO economically

    and on foreign policy, Obama is naive and wrong - the Middle East is a prime example

    as for Sanchez/Tebow ........ funny but the real story is that Tebow will be the starter sooner vs. later - so it does sorta fit with a Romney electoral victory

    back to the Debate:

    + 6 points in the polls for Romney pre vs. post debate

    + 6 points


    as for Jay's "sheepies" ........ LOL

    the biggest Obama backer hates him - Bill Clinton

    don't decry party politics for one side w/o the other

  5. #455
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    I have no clue how anyone in the united states of america could be so ignorant as to believe doing exactly what Bush did which encouraged the slowest growth in modern history BEFORE the collapse is going to work this time. Once again the rich have paid to paved the path to their pockets on the backs of the stupid.

    Of course, that is all academic because Romney won't be President. He isnt winning Ohio and his poll number bump has already faded. So after Obama shows up to play in the next debate it is all over. That and we should expect whatever October surprise to arrive next week.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  6. #456
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    I have no clue how anyone in the united states of america could be so ignorant as to believe doing exactly what Bush did which encouraged the slowest growth in modern history BEFORE the collapse is going to work this time. Once again the rich have paid to paved the path to their pockets on the backs of the stupid.

    Of course, that is all academic because Romney won't be President. He isnt winning Ohio and his poll number bump has already faded. So after Obama shows up to play in the next debate it is all over. That and we should expect whatever October surprise to arrive next week.
    calling people ignorant (and stupid) is pretty fucking lame

    and your "i'm sure of everything" is a close 2nd

    so I'm calling you on your bullshit - as you would want

    not sure why the current dem strategy is to call the other side liars and idiots

    doesn't seem very big tent or strategic on any level

    i don't see any fade - do tell

    as for romney v. bush ...... i think romney runs circles around him as a biz man

    and i could just as easily say that obama's "jimmy carter approach" is bad news - we know how that ended - but I won't

    as for "the debate thread" ........

    romney kicked obama's tail by an enormous margin

    and ryan stood toe to toe with hamburgler joe - and joe lied about libya and he lied about the admin being lockstep with israel - how could that be when bibi said iran nuclear capability is imminent and joe saying "just calm down"

  7. #457
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    I'm sorry that you've decided in your mind that the economy is great -- try telling that to the millions of Americans that are unemployed, under-employed,.
    Jack I live in South Carolina where unemployment remains high. I don't know a SINGLE person that is unemployed. All of my family and friends work @ banks, Restaurants(including fast-food), Hospital facilities, Car dealerships, Cellular companies and companies that I can't remember right now....I was worried about MY Career last year but since the transition/merger that has passed....My co-workers that lost their jobs during the transition did so because their departments closed and they weren't qualified for other job-openings within the company...They did receive a severance package...I didnt know ALL of the people that were let go, but the co-workers that I socialized with outside of the job found work probably quicker than normal..I haven't known ANYONE that has been standing in the Unemployment line...

    I simply find it interesting that we talk about the Unemployment rate 24/7 but most of us don't know a single Soul that is actually cashing an unemployment check....

    How many of your Family members &/or friends receive unemployment benefits?

  8. #458

    Re: The Debate Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    I never said the economy was great. It's decent, but could be doing better. Again if the republicans would stop holding up pro-job and pro growth bills. By the way at this time I am under-employed but am working on that situation. And I sympathize with people who have lost their savings and value of houses because of the RECESSION THAT STARTED UNDER THE PRIOR ADMINISTRATION. This administration has saved thousands of families from losing their homes... and that's better then Mitt Romney wanting government to stay away and let people default on their mortgages. Obama stepped in and tried to help... that's better then the NO ACTION "plan" Mitt Romney has stated.

    An article from a while ago during the primaries... but talks about Mitt Romney's "hand off" approach to housing (meaning no plan):
    http://www.zillow.com/blog/2012-01-0...mes-to-housing



    Yeah this his stupid plan.



    Oh but he has. And Biden stated several clear parts of his economic plan, including lowering taxes on the middle class and small businesses.



    The bail-outs have paid themselves back.



    I've already stated it. Where is Romney's plan? Oh wait that's right... it doesn't exist. Obama has provided the roadwork for better and continued growth... while Romney offers an economic plan that only promises for major job losses (4.5 million to be exact).

    So why does one attack Obama's economic plan when the opponent doesn't have one that's worth a damn?
    One more time -- what is Obama's plan to get the economy back on course?

  9. #459

    Re: The Debate Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MisterMajestic View Post
    Jack I live in South Carolina where unemployment remains high. I don't know a SINGLE person that is unemployed. All of my family and friends work @ banks, Restaurants(including fast-food), Hospital facilities, Car dealerships, Cellular companies and companies that I can't remember right now....I was worried about MY Career last year but since the transition/merger that has passed....My co-workers that lost their jobs during the transition did so because their departments closed and they weren't qualified for other job-openings within the company...They did receive a severance package...I didnt know ALL of the people that were let go, but the co-workers that I socialized with outside of the job found work probably quicker than normal..I haven't known ANYONE that has been standing in the Unemployment line...

    I simply find it interesting that we talk about the Unemployment rate 24/7 but most of us don't know a single Soul that is actually cashing an unemployment check....

    How many of your Family members &/or friends receive unemployment benefits?
    I know several people who have been without work for several years -- good people, hard workers, some are in their 50's -- some are younger -- all want to work full time. Unemployment benefits have run out for them a long time ago -- they get no assistance from any government.

  10. #460
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post

    I am gonna steal a line from Centex: "My pappy once told me, I would rather be in a room full of murders than one filled with liars and thieves cause at least i know what the murder is after"
    Actually, and more to the point, my Dad reminded me tonight; "Regardless of position or title, the bottom line is the individual always looks out for themselves, because they KNOW that no one else will."

    If that was a lie then there would be more Mother Theresa's, Gandhis, and Dhali Lamas in the world.

    Politicians and those who elect them are no different.

    Think about it.
    Last edited by CTF; October 13th, 2012 at 05:37 PM.
    Never regret anything, because in that moment it's exactly what you wanted.

  11. #461
    JUB Addict andysayshi's Avatar
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by chance1 View Post
    With Romney there is hope that his skill set will help get business moving again
    I'm interested that you say this. How do you see his election performance as displaying this?

    Politifact and Factcheck.org agree that both Romney and Ryan's debate content was built on mis-truths, using false facts and stats at least 5:1 over Obama or Biden.

    But what's more disturbing is the lack of ANY specifics about what the Romney-Ryan ticket is promising. Jon Stewart did a piece this week called "Vague Against the Machine", demonstrating what virtually every economist in the world is saying about Romney's promises: they are impossible. Romney has yet to specify ONE SINGLE TAX LOOPHOLE that will supposedly solve the 7 trillion dollar additional deficit his promises add to the woes of the US. Instead, we're given foolish platitudes like PBS and Planned Parenthood, which won't even resolve half of one percent of the cost of what Romney is proposing.

    Take a look at the piece - I'm interested in your take on it. How can you trust a campaign that does nothing but promise without explaining how it will make those promises happen? If they can't be honest about the basics, what will happen when they actually have to deal with specifics?

    In particular, the speech by Roosevelt played at the end speaks volumes to me.

    It's easier to watch the clip from the "Whole Episode" link - it's about 10 mins long, straight from the start of the episode.

    http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-epi...12-ben-affleck

  12. #462
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by chance1 View Post
    more Bush ........ sad

    and I view Obama's first 3 almost 4 as a "sunk cost" - no sense in spending good money after bad

    and I've never heard of an 8 year investment that wasn't predicated on evaluating the return in years 5-8

    Obama's strategy is taxing the rich and borrowing more money to pay for entitlements that he has promised to his voting base

    There is no end in sight with him

    With Romney there is hope that his skill set will help get business moving again

    It's clear - right or wrong - that business leaders do NOT support Obama and are NOT investing in this economy

    Romney provides a glimmer of hope IMO economically

    and on foreign policy, Obama is naive and wrong - the Middle East is a prime example

    as for Sanchez/Tebow ........ funny but the real story is that Tebow will be the starter sooner vs. later - so it does sorta fit with a Romney electoral victory

    back to the Debate:

    + 6 points in the polls for Romney pre vs. post debate

    + 6 points


    as for Jay's "sheepies" ........ LOL

    the biggest Obama backer hates him - Bill Clinton

    don't decry party politics for one side w/o the other
    Oh, that's right. Repubs only talk about Reagan. Bush never happened. Actually, I don't really see much of a skill set or promises that Romney offers that Bush did not already try. And Bush did it with far more personal integrity.

    As for putting good money behind bad money, we don't really know that. We have yet to see Obama's policies play out. Econ policies don't have impact right away. Unemployement is slipping downward; interest rates remain low; stocks/retirement is good; corp profits are mostly high. Hiring just isn't robust. Manufacturing has been killing us for a while and remains the case. I like the reforms in banking /credit and the auto bail out. TARP not so much. ObamaCare hasn't really started, but I think will be good and continuously tweaked. I like it better than the Ryan plan.

    As for business leaders, the older I get, the more I realize the reason they only support the GOP is that they, too, love entitlements. The Dems give people entitlements; the Repubs give corporations/wealthy entitlements. Business leaders hated Bill Clinton, too. They, of course, hate Obama. Do you envision a Dem that they would like?

    Good luck with that Tebow thing. New York ain't Florida....in Florida, he's a game changer; in NY, he'll just be holding down the fort til the draft in April. And [B]RazorEdge88[B], Tebow's 47% completetion percentage (as he had in Denver) is likely far better than Romney could ever acheive as POTUS.

  13. #463
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    The sad thing is most of these republicans argue against handouts while holding their handout. People who support them support liars and dishonest idiots. That is what kills me the most is the average republican will beleive some off the wall conspiracy theory before proven facts in front of their face.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  14. #464
    JUB Addict andysayshi's Avatar
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    ^ Just like that classic Craig T. Nelson line: "I've been on food stamps and welfare. Did anybody help ME out? No."


  15. #465
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    Lets face it folks the republicans are the true socialist accepting handout after handout from the federal government while the hard working people in the blue states struggle to support them.

    'Red State Socialism' graphic says GOP-leaning states get lion's share of federal dollars
    It has been downgraded from completely true to mostly true now that republican policy destroyed the wealth and prosperity in the blue states.

    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  16. #466
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    The real world looks like this:

    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  17. #467
    Porn Star ReadyWithReadyWit's Avatar
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by chance1 View Post
    and I view Obama's first 3 almost 4 as a "sunk cost" - no sense in spending good money after bad

    and I've never heard of an 8 year investment that wasn't predicated on evaluating the return in years 5-8

    Obama's strategy is taxing the rich and borrowing more money to pay for entitlements that he has promised to his voting base

    There is no end in sight with him

    With Romney there is hope that his skill set will help get business moving again

    It's clear - right or wrong - that business leaders do NOT support Obama and are NOT investing in this economy

    Romney provides a glimmer of hope IMO economically

    and on foreign policy, Obama is naive and wrong - the Middle East is a prime example
    Forewarning: might need some caffeine for this one...

    Enjoyed your post... I think it raises thoughtful concerns that worry many people... HOWEVER,...

    I think viewing the Obama years as sunk costs is a mistake… they are an investment that pretty much all economists agree are working… to what degree/ how quickly is a matter of debate… but to suggest otherwise is nonsensical. Sure, there is uncertainty… but much of this uncertainty dissipates regardless of who is elected. The biggest uncertainty is Obamacare… which businesses are more than capable of adjusting to… once GOP governors, for example, stop holding their states’ economies hostage for political reasons… and there is no threat of repeal.

    The truth is changing course comes with considerable costs (e.g., repealing Obamacare) and uncertainties (Does Romney have any ideas? Are they politically viable?) of its own. Thus, I think the question is more whether a Romney administration is a better investment… and there are absolutely no details to suggest this is the case… we are just supposed to cross our fingers… And, not to be too guilt-trippy, but I would contend that anyone on this forum voting for Romney better believe in their heart of hearts that Romney is going to provide something a tad more substantial than a “glimmer” of hope economically. I would use an analogy of moving from civil to criminal law… the evidence better be “beyond a reasonable doubt”… and the Romney campaign provides no evidence at all… other than, “hey, I’m a business man”…

    Ironically, I think that Romney’s resurgence in the polls is the worst thing for the economy. Just when business leaders were coming to the realization of an Obama second term, they were slung back into limbo again. Likewise, a tighter election means that more crazy down-ticket TPers are going to survive making it ever so more difficult to reach necessary compromises.

    On foreign policy, we obviously have irreconcilable differences . Libya is what it is (you clearly think it is a HUGE deal; I not so much). In general, though, the Romney campaign’s overall message seems to be to criticize the president and then say they would do the exact same thing, but talk “tough” and undermine allies in the process.
    Last edited by ReadyWithReadyWit; October 13th, 2012 at 07:06 PM.

  18. #468
    JUB Addict vulgar_newcomer's Avatar
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by andysayshi View Post
    st 5:1 over Obama or Biden.

    But what's more disturbing is the lack of ANY specifics about what the Romney-Ryan ticket is promising. Jon Stewart did a piece this week called "Vague Against the Machine", demonstrating what virtually every economist in the world is saying about Romney's promises: they are impossible. Romney has yet to specify ONE SINGLE TAX LOOPHOLE that will supposedly solve the 7 trillion dollar additional deficit his promises add to the woes of the US. Instead, we're given foolish platitudes like PBS and Planned Parenthood, which won't even resolve half of one percent of the cost of what Romney is proposing.
    Thats because they will be the ones that slam into the ass of the middle and working class. The mortgage deduction for certain. He will say that applies to everyone.

    Sort of like the old tale about the homeless man being told he couldn't sleep under the bridge by the cop. Then the cop says that applies to everyone rich or poor no sleeping under the bridge.

    Most very well off people don't have mortgages, that's not how they set things up.

  19. #469
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by chance1 View Post
    calling people ignorant (and stupid) is pretty fucking lame
    Only to those who think that lies are a legitimate way to campaign.

    Quote Originally Posted by chance1 View Post
    so I'm calling you on your bullshit - as you would want
    No bullshit: the Founding Fathers wanted an educated electorate. Most of the electorate is not educated, which is why ROmney and Ryan can get away with so many lies.

    Quote Originally Posted by chance1 View Post
    not sure why the current dem strategy is to call the other side liars and idiots
    Because the Republican strategy right now is lie, lie, lie, and in the interest of having an educated electorate, the Democrats are calling them on their lying.

    Quote Originally Posted by chance1 View Post
    as for romney v. bush ...... i think romney runs circles around him as a biz man
    Romney's biz expertise is not what's needed here. He could afford to gamble, counting on ripping off the taxpayers if things went sour. But by his record, there's a one in four chance he'd dump the country in the ditch -- not a good thing for a president.

    Quote Originally Posted by chance1 View Post
    as for "the debate thread" ........

    romney kicked obama's tail by an enormous margin

    ryan stood toe to toe with hamburgler joe - and joe lied about libya and he lied about the admin being lockstep with israel - how could that be when bibi said iran nuclear capability is imminent and joe saying "just calm down"
    So Joe made two lies. Ryan made at least fourteen, all big ones. He didn't "stand toe to toe", he hid behind a shield of falsehoods and pretended to be fighting.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  20. #470
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MisterMajestic View Post
    I simply find it interesting that we talk about the Unemployment rate 24/7 but most of us don't know a single Soul that is actually cashing an unemployment check....

    How many of your Family members &/or friends receive unemployment benefits?
    I know several collecting unemployment, who are embarrassed at having to use a food stamps card and go to a food bank to be able to eat.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  21. #471
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    One more time -- what is Obama's plan to get the economy back on course?
    Good grief, Jack -- you've been told over and over and you ignore it. Ignorance is one thing, but deliberate ignorance is just disgusting.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  22. #472
    It ain't easy being King MisterMajestic's Avatar
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    I know several people who have been without work for several years -- good people, hard workers, some are in their 50's -- some are younger -- all want to work full time. Unemployment benefits have run out for them a long time ago -- they get no assistance from any government.
    Unless they live in underdeveloped Rural areas I find it hard to believe their Local Wal-Mart and Fast Food Chains are not hiring...When your 2yr unemployment benefits have run out then you have no other choice but to except employment from wherever you can find it....Case closed...

    Pizza Hut usually hire cashiers and drivers all the time all over the Country...We have Pizza Hut, Subways & Dominoes popping-up in Rural areas all over South Carolina...I'm sure this trend is happening all over the USA...

    Now what excuse have your friends &/or family given as to why they're too good to get off their Asses and get a job to bring in cash since YOU claim they've used up their unemployment benefits? And please don't bring up the age factor because 50 & 60yr olds are working at Fast Food chains left and right....

    How are they paying their bills Jack, are they shacking up with you? Are you paying their bills because you're employed and they are not...

  23. #473

    Re: The Debate Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Good grief, Jack -- you've been told over and over and you ignore it. Ignorance is one thing, but deliberate ignorance is just disgusting.
    Pass a little jobs bill? That is it?

  24. #474
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MisterMajestic View Post
    Unless they live in underdeveloped Rural areas I find it hard to believe their Local Wal-Mart and Fast Food Chains are not hiring...When your 2yr unemployment benefits have run out then you have no other choice but to except employment from wherever you can find it....Case closed...

    Pizza Hut usually hire cashiers and drivers all the time all over the Country...We have Pizza Hut, Subways & Dominoes popping-up in Rural areas all over South Carolina...I'm sure this trend is happening all over the USA...

    Now what excuse have your friends &/or family given as to why they're too good to get off their Asses and get a job to bring in cash since YOU claim they've used up their unemployment benefits? And please don't bring up the age factor because 50 & 60yr olds are working at Fast Food chains left and right....

    How are they paying their bills Jack, are they shacking up with you? Are you paying their bills because you're employed and they are not...
    I don't understand your .... Rant

    People who are unemployed deserve it ? They're lazy ?

    Personally I know many that are looking and have been for some time

    And I've read of millions who have stopped looking

    I think your POV on this matter is ...... Off

  25. #475
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    Well actually having a congress that does even half the work of a regular congress would be nice. Hopefully this time around since they can not pin lack of achievement on Obama again since he wont be running the republicans may actually do something for the american people.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  26. #476
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MisterMajestic View Post
    Unless they live in underdeveloped Rural areas I find it hard to believe their Local Wal-Mart and Fast Food Chains are not hiring...When your 2yr unemployment benefits have run out then you have no other choice but to except employment from wherever you can find it....Case closed...
    They're not hiring here because there aren't many with money to spend on such frivolities. And those who have run out of unemployment benefits can't get hired because there aren't any jobs.

    No income means you're not a customer. If you're not a customer, businesses aren't making any money off you, so they don't hire. When they don't hire, people don't earn and can't be customers. Businesses close, making more people without income.
    It's a process that feeds on itself. If the Republicans hadn't blocked the jobs bills Obama wanted, it would be feeding less because there would be four million more jobs.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  27. #477
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    ^^^So what is your States unemployment rate? Don't you live in a rural area, are you employed?

    If you know people who have used up their unemployment benefits and are unable to find work locally, then how are they paying their bills? Have they moved in with relatives/friends, moved to the City to search for work? How are they making it?

    This shouldnt be a Trivia question if you know these people......Simply saying they just exist day to day is not gonna cut it.

  28. #478

    Re: The Debate Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MisterMajestic View Post
    ^^^So what is your States unemployment rate? Don't you live in a rural area, are you employed?

    If you know people who have used up their unemployment benefits and are unable to find work locally, then how are they paying their bills? Have they moved in with relatives/friends, moved to the City to search for work? How are they making it?

    This shouldnt be a Trivia question if you know these people......Simply saying they just exist day to day is not gonna cut it.
    Surely you agree we should stop bringing in millions of immigrants? Nah immigrants are always most importanr to you liberals.

  29. #479
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MisterMajestic View Post
    ^^^So what is your States unemployment rate? Don't you live in a rural area, are you employed?

    If you know people who have used up their unemployment benefits and are unable to find work locally, then how are they paying their bills? Have they moved in with relatives/friends, moved to the City to search for work? How are they making it?

    This shouldnt be a Trivia question if you know these people......Simply saying they just exist day to day is not gonna cut it.
    not sure who you're talking to MM

    for me, a lot of my friends and friends of friends out of work had good paying jobs - on Wall St. or in ad sales - they've had some level of success already and thus find themselves losing a lot of income - some with mortgages and families - the jobs they're looking at for the most part are not as well paying - some have accepted that - others are still aiming high

    they're using savings - 401K's - plus

    not a pretty picture

    NY UE is higher than the national avg. - last I saw it was in the low 9's - a full point above

    in advertising sales, many companies are hirer very junior people - paying them 1/2 of people they've let go

    once they do that - and the money is then budgeted lower, it's very hard to get the budget back to the original level

    i was out for a couple mos. - used some savings - UE didn't even cover my rent

    i was lucky in that i kept digging and networking and was able to land something good - but being out is not good for the wallet or head

  30. #480
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by chance1 View Post
    not sure who you're talking to MM

    for me, a lot of my friends and friends of friends out of work had good paying jobs - on Wall St. or in ad sales - they've had some level of success already and thus find themselves losing a lot of income - some with mortgages and families - the jobs they're looking at for the most part are not as well paying - some have accepted that - others are still aiming high
    That's the "Global Economy."

    Even during the Clinton Years one of my best friends lost his $100+ a year IT job to India due to outsourcing.

    He might have been a 'statistic' except the fact that he was also one of my room mates in a 3,000 square foot that I was counting on his "rent" to help me make my mortgage payment.

    He took a job tending bar.

    And not just any bar, but the type of bar that depending upon your view of "scat" depended upon what type of tip you got.

    What's not truly being discussed here is the humility of it all.

    Why should Americans keep "lowering the bar" to be considered a part of the "47%"?

    they're using savings - 401K's - plus

    not a pretty picture
    Wow!

    You mean to tell me that after 2008 your friends had anything left out of their 401k's to even cash in to pay their bills?

    I personally lost $20,000 under G.W. Bush and still had to cash in my 401k plan, and TAKE THE TAX PENALTY for doing so.

    I paid off all of debts, and still managed to maintain two residences.

    And, laugh if you will, have never made more than $40,000 personally in my life in any given tax year.

    To me?

    Part of the problem is a small group of College Graduates (from any College) that found themselves with "jobs" after graduation where they could actually pay off their loans, now finding themselves WITHOUT jobs, and now blaming it on Obama.

    WTFE!

    My point?

    If it's that bad amongst you and your college buddies, imagine how much worse it is amongst those with nothing more than Community College or Associate Degrees.

    And urm...what is Romney/Ryan doing to address that demographic?

    Oh...apparently we're "middle class" and we can't contribute to their campaigns so why should they really care?

    NY UE is higher than the national avg. - last I saw it was in the low 9's - a full point above

    in advertising sales, many companies are hirer very junior people - paying them 1/2 of people they've let go

    once they do that - and the money is then budgeted lower, it's very hard to get the budget back to the original level

    i was out for a couple mos. - used some savings - UE didn't even cover my rent

    i was lucky in that i kept digging and networking and was able to land something good - but being out is not good for the wallet or head
    Yeah!

    Been there done that.

    It SUCKS!

    What I would like for you to understand is that between each "tax bracket' the experience is different.

    For the ten people who work for me, they don't give one flying rats ass of how I became their boss.

    Half of them can't even keep their cellphone bills paid up for me to contact them to let them know what their schedule to work is for next week.

    That's REALITY!

    That's the shit that neither party candidates for POTUS want to talk about.

    But THE MOST IMPORTANT topics about the debates are 'body language' and 'water gulping,' and the rest of us wonder why no one is serious about this?



    I feel the need to shave my balls because the only personal debt that I owe is to the bank that holds the loan to my second residence.

    AND be able to sleep tonight knowing that I still paid MORE LAST YEAR, and the upcoming Tax Year, MORE FUCKING TAXES than Mitt Romney has paid in the last TWO YEARS (in income v. percentage rates)!

    And I'm going to vote for him WHY?

    Your friends are going to vote for him why?
    Never regret anything, because in that moment it's exactly what you wanted.

  31. #481

    Re: The Debate Thread

    The main reason Romney pays at.a lower rate is because he gives millions to charity. Logically the rate he pays is irrelevant to your vote. Doy really believe your taxes will be lower under Obama? If you are concerned about lower and declining wages, why cannot you see the effect of our massive importation of millions of immigrants, willing to work cheap.

  32. #482
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MisterMajestic View Post
    ^^^So what is your States unemployment rate? Don't you live in a rural area, are you employed?

    If you know people who have used up their unemployment benefits and are unable to find work locally, then how are they paying their bills? Have they moved in with relatives/friends, moved to the City to search for work? How are they making it?

    This shouldn't be a Trivia question if you know these people......Simply saying they just exist day to day is not gonna cut it.
    Our county's unemployment rate finally got down to 12%. It would be 16% except a lot of people have moved away, especially those who lost their homes.

    One guy I know is squatting in a house with an absentee landlord. Another is living in a large freight box in the woods; another in a tent not too far away. One family has moved in with a brother; the landlord is ignoring the tenant laws by allowing twice as many people in the apartment as the law says.

    Another just got a job, because a position opened when the former guy was drunk on the job and sort of ruined some equipment.

    Bills? If you live in the woods, bill collectors can't find you; there are also deer to poach.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  33. #483

    Re: The Debate Thread

    I'm not sure why they're calling New Mexico a red state; it did go to Bush in 2004 but went to Obama in 2008. And leaning to Obama now.

    By the way, Oct. 14: ABC/WaPo poll: Obama 49/Romney 46 (Likely voters). Swing States Obama 51/Romney 46.

  34. #484

    Re: The Debate Thread

    I don't think it's a sure thing for either side at this point. The final 2 debates might change things a little, depending on what happens. But I don't think they will change things a lot. It's pretty close to a tie right now, in the popular vote at least. A lot of the result will hang on turnout and which side can get a better turnout.

  35. #485

    Re: The Debate Thread

    I was responding to mister majestics description of the plight of people unable to find work. How can caring people fail to object to the constant influx of more unemployed immigrants competing with Americans for scarce jobs? Why do immigrants trump Americans?

  36. #486

    Re: The Debate Thread

    Why should immigrants be allowed to come in and take jobs when tens of millions of Americans cannot get work? Why do you think Americans Re sub human, and less worthy the immigrants of jobs.
    It is offensive that immigrants tend to vote for high taxes on Americans to finance welfare programs and health care for immigrants.

  37. #487
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    Someone seems to be forgetting a basic premise of America:

    "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal...."

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  38. #488

    Re: The Debate Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Someone seems to be forgetting a basic premise of America:

    "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal...."
    Non citizens outside the US have absolutely no right to come to America to take jobs from Americans. It has never been a question of equality vel non. It is a matter of the government intentionally harming Americans by flooding the country with people willing to work cheap and forcing Americans to compete at the lowest level. It is false that immigrants only take jobs no one else wants. Go back to mister majestics ost 553. He was talking about Americans with nothing after losing unemployment benefits. I was responding to him.
    Last edited by opinterph; October 15th, 2012 at 04:13 PM. Reason: fixed quote tags

  39. #489

    Re: The Debate Thread

    Read again. I said non citizens outside the US have no right to come. You are here and a citizen. I accept your word on that. It is absurd, wrong, and evil to say, as you do, that eveyone in the world has the right to come and take jobs from Americans.

  40. #490
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    Has it occurred to anyone that immigrants are capable of more than just taking jobs away from Americans. They are capable of creating jobs for Americans too. Oh and all those jobs they do have come to be filled by immigrants all the time not because of a foreign plot but because Americans can't do those jobs or don't want to.

    Finally in a truly free market capitalist society, a business owner would always be able to hire whomever he wants to fill the job regardless of nationality. Are you sure about the merits of a government social program designed to reserve jobs for a special interest group of people who happen to be US citizens when all a Wealth Creator™ wants to do is hire the best person for the job? Without some government bureaucrat breathing down his neck about costly and expensive priveleged hiring forced to be granted to citizens by an overreaching intrusive socialistic government? Let business free! Let them hire who they want, American or not!

  41. #491

    Re: The Debate Thread

    Are you willing to spend all day hunched over picking strawberries for minimum wage and no benefits?

  42. #492

    Re: The Debate Thread

    OK, but you must stop pretending to care how many poor and unemployed we have. No, CG the process does not give every the right to come. About a million a year are allowed, but it is not a right. Previously you said they have theright to jobs. If immigrants have a right to jobs then some Americans are shoved aside.

  43. #493

    Re: The Debate Thread

    Any decline in immigration is irrelevant to the fact that it continues in large numbers, and yes, they either take jobs, or commit crimes, or collect welfare. Sure, a few scientists and Doctors are helpful, but most ate not. You must stop pretending to care about the poor and unemployed when you argue that the immigrants have a right to to jobs when millions of Americans are unemployed.

  44. #494

    Re: The Debate Thread

    It ia total nonsense to say that immigrants are not taking jobs from Americans. When is the last time you met an American taxi driver, or saw an American doing construction. I can remember when Americans raised families driving taxis or doing construction. They take cooking jobs that Americans would do, and waiters, janitors, etc. It is monstrous lie that Americans would not do the jobs.

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    Re: The Debate Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    Has it occurred to anyone that immigrants are capable of more than just taking jobs away from Americans. They are capable of creating jobs for Americans too. Oh and all those jobs they do have come to be filled by immigrants all the time not because of a foreign plot but because Americans can't do those jobs or don't want to.
    I've tried pointing that out. It's like the Cubans in south Florida: most of them arrived with nothing at all, yet they built an economy that not only employed all of their own people but drew "gringos" from elsewhere to fill jobs.

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    Finally in a truly free market capitalist society, a business owner would always be able to hire whomever he wants to fill the job regardless of nationality. Are you sure about the merits of a government social program designed to reserve jobs for a special interest group of people who happen to be US citizens when all a Wealth Creator™ wants to do is hire the best person for the job? Without some government bureaucrat breathing down his neck about costly and expensive priveleged hiring forced to be granted to citizens by an overreaching intrusive socialistic government? Let business free! Let them hire who they want, American or not!
    Absolutely. When someone wants businesses to have power but calls for limiting the employment pool to "our kind", it's called fascism. Fascism has little to do with free markets or liberty.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  46. #496
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    GC, you're arguing with someone who doesn't understand economics, or democracy, or freedom, or rights.

    To move and go where you wish is a basic human right. Yes, we've restricted it for some time now, but that doesn't do away with it.
    Oh -- about caring about the poor: if you restrict your caring to just your kind, you've become a tribalist -- and if you're a tribalist, there's no argument at all against caring via government programs.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  47. #497
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    It ia total nonsense to say that immigrants are not taking jobs from Americans. When is the last time you met an American taxi driver, or saw an American doing construction. I can remember when Americans raised families driving taxis or doing construction. They take cooking jobs that Americans would do, and waiters, janitors, etc. It is monstrous lie that Americans would not do the jobs.
    Oh, by the way, Ben... you must be excited for the upcoming debate, huh? As there is one issue that has gone ominously unmentioned thus far.. that's right... your favorite (aka only issue) is bound to come up... are you ready for the likely pivot that is about to happen? Don't get too disillusioned... I might be wrong...

  48. #498
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    I see baseless troll like responses have derailed the thread. Thank you Kuli for starting a clean slate without the pointless purse fight over a person racist belief system.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


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