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  1. #1
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    The Debate Thread

    Kind of like THE Ohio State.... proper English and all.

    I know I jumped the gun but i wanted to get my two cents in and see what you all think.

    Most partisans are downplaying the debates as their guy isnt the best to kinda of hedge the later spin.

    However each of you have hopefully had a chance to see both the President and Governor Romney argue a point. Both have shown a tendency to get their feathers ruffled.

    So this is the one day prior prediction and then we can run through the results tomorrow night?

    Anyone Game?

    I will go first. I think the President actually is fairly relaxed and confident in his ideology about where he wants to take the nation so I will go ahead and say that Romney will get a little edgy first. However, i think after all is said and done it will merely solidify the opinions each side have about their candidate.

    So who snaps first? Who looks uncomfortable ?
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  2. #2
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    Romney won't be uncomfortable because he's not going to say anything, just provide more partisan platitudes. He'll only slip if Obama gets a good jab in -- like, presenting him with an etch-a-sketch in case he needs help.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  3. #3
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    LOL... now that would be classic tv... regardless of who wins Obama handing Romney an etch-a-sketch to solidify his position would be the funniest shit I have seen all year.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  4. #4
    Reality goggles required Spiff's Avatar
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    I think it will be disappointingly boring, as presidential "debates" typically have been the past several elections. They have too many rules to keep it "civilized". The candidates know what the questions are in advance, so they are too rehearsed. They face the mediators instead of each other. Yeah sure, occasionally a canned zinger is made on cue. Rather than debating, it's more like each candidate giving their stump speeches in an ask-and-answer format. The media pundits end up doing more debating than the candidates do. Of course I will watch it. But I'm not anticipating the need to get out the popcorn. But I am well stocked just in case. . .

  5. #5
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    I disagree that the candidates know the questions ahead of time. It is more like they are on auto repeat for each issue and say the same autonomous bullshit. I agree i will probably become bored rather quickly but will listen in the background for roars and then rewind the dvr to see what caused the commotion.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  6. #6
    JUB Addict spooger's Avatar
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    i think the wednesday debate has the potential to decide the election ...

    republicans in great numbers are not comfortable with romney ... he's too soft on obama ... he speaks without passion ... he needs to sock it to obama ...

    many obama supporters assume that obama is the better debater & speaker ... he's the incumbent, so he should have access to knowledge that will make him appear superior ... and he seems amicable and hip

    if romney zings obama i don't think it would have nearly the negative effect compared to obama zapping romney ..

    and i don't expect an embarrassment for either man, but if obama cracks it will help romney's cause, but not much probably, but ...

    if obama has the chance to embarrass romney i think it would be devastating to romney .... too much depends on this single performance ...

    thursday you will either see floods of money into romney's campaign, or you'll see repubs scattering like rats on the titanic ....

    even without the whitehouse, the tea party has enough local influence to swing elections in house and senate ... they can be prepared to capitulate the presidency and focus on congress

  7. #7
    Reality goggles required Spiff's Avatar
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    By saying they know the questions in advance, I didn't necessarily mean they are given the actual list to preview. Rather, they know the mediators will ask all the usual core issue questions and also throw some of the usual softballs. So as you pointed out, they can easily auto-repeat answers to such questions. So expect the usual tax, jobs, Medicare rhetoric. Don't expect gun control, marriage equality, or legalization of marijuana.

    And a real debate has no rules.

  8. #8

    Re: The Debate Thread

    I hope they ask Romney about why he won't release more of his tax returns. Hopefully the President will bring that up.

  9. #9
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    The debates will be mildly entertaining political kabuki theatre, as per usual. Unless either man has a gobsmackingly bad (or good) night, I doubt they will influence the elections much either way.

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    Re: The Debate Thread

    I don't like Romney... ain't gonna vote for him even with my disdain for Fauxbama(own our Wizard of Oz....family was from Kansas too on his mother's side)but would love him to knock the President off the cloud he's on. Jon Stewart roasting the administration now on Libya...at least one liberal with honesty and character.

    And "Fauxbama" is meant as a slap at the myth behind the man...not his birthplace... he's American and a citizen and all that birther nonsense trying to find evidence against that takes away from the fact the man simply is a poor president, a poor leader and those who see him in any other way are strongly deluded at best.
    unofficial official mini meet Friday- Saturday April 11-12, 2014

  11. #11
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    I am actually irrationally excited about the debate for some reason- I guess the media has done its job psyching me up. My gut tells me Romney will get a baby bump- a point or two in the days following the debate, enough to give the media something to talk about, but not enough (and likely not sustainable) to give him a real shot. If he doesn't though, this election is over for realsies.

    I am going to attempt to watch the debate devoid of pundit commentary directly before of after it. Not because there is a chance of me changing my mind, but I think it is healthy to occasionally take a step back and use my own noggin to assess the stark differences between the two candidates, their strengths and weaknesses , and who I think actually won. I challenge others to do the same!

  12. #12
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    I severely doubt it will be a mudslinging fest like the Brown-Warren debate last nite. God that was some highly entertaining TV. I just do not think it will be exciting as most voters made up their mind. The only debate that would be worth watching is the Biden-Ryan debate.

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    Re: The Debate Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    LOL... now that would be classic tv... regardless of who wins Obama handing Romney an etch-a-sketch to solidify his position would be the funniest shit I have seen all year.
    If Obama had the balls to do it, I think it would be "election over": young people all over would love the stunt and would turn out to vote just because Obama had the balls to pull it.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  14. #14
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyBob View Post
    I hope they ask Romney about why he won't release more of his tax returns. Hopefully the President will bring that up.
    I'm hoping someone has hacked Romney's returns and Obama will walk in with them in his hand.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  15. #15
    JUB Addict T-Rexx's Avatar
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by spooger View Post
    if obama has the chance to embarrass romney i think it would be devastating to romney .... too much depends on this single performance ...
    No. It will make no difference whatsoever.

    Romney could stand there all night, not say a single word in response to any question, have slobber drooling down his chin, and it would not reduce his support by a single vote.

    Republicans are not voting for Romney, they're voting against Obama. As one of the TV analysts on PBS noted, the GOP could have nominated a sack of cement, and it would have had every bit as much support as Mitt Romney has had.

    Romney doesn't have to do anything in these debates. I don't think he even needs to show up. He cannot be hurt by them, regardless of how poorly he performs.


    Quote Originally Posted by spooger View Post
    thursday you will either see floods of money into romney's campaign, or you'll see repubs scattering like rats on the titanic ....
    No. Republicans do not draw their monetary support from average people, but from billionaires. Koch & friends will continue to pour money into the Romney campaign, even if it looks like a certain loser, because a few tens of billions of dollars means nothing to them. The debates will have no effect whatsoever.


    The only interesting thing that could happen in these debates would be for Obama to blow it with some stupid statement or two. But that's not likely to happen. Which means they will be excruciatingly, excruciatingly boring.

  16. #16
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    So what both parties are saying is that neither of them have a master debater?

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    Re: The Debate Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Rexx View Post
    No. It will make no difference whatsoever.

    Romney could stand there all night, not say a single word in response to any question, have slobber drooling down his chin, and it would not reduce his support by a single vote.

    Republicans are not voting for Romney, they're voting against Obama. As one of the TV analysts on PBS noted, the GOP could have nominated a sack of cement, and it would have had every bit as much support as Mitt Romney has had.

    Romney doesn't have to do anything in these debates. I don't think he even needs to show up. He cannot be hurt by them, regardless of how poorly he performs.




    No. Republicans do not draw their monetary support from average people, but from billionaires. Koch & friends will continue to pour money into the Romney campaign, even if it looks like a certain loser, because a few tens of billions of dollars means nothing to them. The debates will have no effect whatsoever.


    The only interesting thing that could happen in these debates would be for Obama to blow it with some stupid statement or two. But that's not likely to happen. Which means they will be excruciatingly, excruciatingly boring.
    so sure
    so cynical

    republicans have no brains

    such a tired refrain devoid of any reason just partisanship

    on the other hand, Morning Joe had several convos about it today - from several diff angles

    1 - the idea that a contrived rehearsed setting for 90 minutes or so could CHANGE one's opinion about either man (in this case)
    2 - another that Romney is actually a good debater - his most comfortable setting - vs. say in a Chipotle the other day
    3 - another that Romney doing "zingers" is dumb - and to pre announce them - dumber !!! I concur
    4 - another that Obama is clearly the more likable guy that Romney should not try to be folksy cuz he's not

    Sam Stein is really growing on me in many ways

    they went back to prior debates and moments

    Ronald Reagan's "are you better off" ending actually happened in a debate where Jimmy Carter had bested him throughout the night - yet that sign off is the only thing people remembered

    Al Hunt said simply that RR connected with people and Mittens does NOT - so any comparison is faulty

    For me, I will be out this eve with 2 gym buds - will DVR it and watch

    I truly love to watch these things and I will try very hard not to "jump" on perceived mistakes - I am not a fan of the current President and think his economic stewardship and foreign policy approach are both well below what the country needs to thrive

    that said he's a cool cat (not being an asshole here) and I don't think we're turning into europe if he wins

    life will indeed go on and perhaps just perhaps he can figure out a way to spend stimulus money for things that will benefit the country - and that'd be a great thing

    I love debates

    Romney has a "puncher's chance" IMO - unlikely to land but you just never know

  18. #18
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Rexx View Post
    No. It will make no difference whatsoever.

    Romney could stand there all night, not say a single word in response to any question, have slobber drooling down his chin, and it would not reduce his support by a single vote.

    Republicans are not voting for Romney, they're voting against Obama. As one of the TV analysts on PBS noted, the GOP could have nominated a sack of cement, and it would have had every bit as much support as Mitt Romney has had.
    I agree to a point. However billionaires are already withholding funds based on Romney's lack luster performance. you are absolutely correct, those that have no grasp on reality will vote against Obama claiming he is the root of all evil. However if the money and party heavyweight walk away Romney will not win.

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    So what both parties are saying is that neither of them have a master debater?
    I see what you did there mister. I got my eye on you.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  19. #19
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    Re: The Debate Thread


    Mittens said he would bring these to the debate.

    In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

  20. #20
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    Romney could lose up to four percentage points due to debate failure -- he still has independents in his camp; has to, because there aren't enough Republicans in the country to give him the numbers he now has.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  21. #21

    Re: The Debate Thread

    If I were Romney I'd ask Obama why he has a different accent and verbiage when he talks with black people.

  22. #22
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    ^ There you go again, Jack Springer. Race baiting as usual.
    #439th oldest member on JUB.

  23. #23

    Re: The Debate Thread

    Did you listen to the video of Obama in 2007 talking to a convention of black ministers?

    I suggest that you do.

  24. #24
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Romney won't be uncomfortable because he's not going to say anything, just provide more partisan platitudes. He'll only slip if Obama gets a good jab in -- like, presenting him with an etch-a-sketch in case he needs help.
    Too much of a jab if done so directly; seems unpresidential. However, Obama could joke about having ended the teleprompter habit and start reading his remarks off an etch-a-sketch.

    Humour can score a lot of points that would otherwise be deflected by people's preconceptions.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

  25. #25

    Re: The Debate Thread

    Romney will did what Sarah Palin did in her debate. He will memorize 6 or 7 right-wing talking points, and a few zingers. When it's his turn to talk, he will regurgitate the talking point or zinger that seems, in his mind, to be the right one at that moment, whether or now it has anything to do with the question put to him. That's what Palin did in her debate - "I'm not here to talk about that, I'm here to talk about ____" and then go on to a rehearsed talking point. She never actually answered a question or actually debated anything. It was like she was pre-recorded instead of live. Romney will do the same thing, simply reciting his memorized script, and never actually debate or actually answer a question. After the debate is over, right-wing pundits will praise him for being "on message."

  26. #26
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    If I were Romney I'd ask Obama why he has a different accent and verbiage when he talks with black people.
    Probably because his audience speaks a different kind of English than you do, and because Obama happens to be conversant in that form of English. They speak different variants of English not only in different countries but within countries as well.

    If I said to you "Parliament tabled a proposal to replace the East Block with a parkade" you might not have any idea what that perfectly valid English sentence is saying. By mentioning "Parliament" you'd hopefully guess we were talking about the Commonwealth instead of the US. "East Block" is a locally specific term. Would you have any idea that refers to one of the three principle buildings on Canada's Parliament Hill? I wouldn't expect you to know that. Incidentally it's the building in the foreground here:


    I doubt you'd know what a "parkade" is either. Apparently this word is almost never used outside Canada and parts of South Africa, but I made it to my 30s, born and raised speaking English my whole life, without having the first clue that most of the English speaking world has never heard of this perfectly useful word. Moreover, I didn't even know what else it could be called. A parkade is that multi-level building where you leave your car when you go shopping at the mall. Learn it.

    Finally, once we had you sorted out with all of that, the use of the word "tabled" might leave you thinking that Parliament rejected plans to demolish Canada's original equivalent of the Oval Office to put up a "parking garage." But that's not what the word "tabled" means. It means "to actively consider." At least in this English-speaking country.

    So why do you think Obama would speak the same kind of English to every audience when he is smart enough to know something about the local variation? I think its his job to understand and be understood by the people he's speaking to.

    You don't have to believe me or ask Obama however; one of the United States's foremost linguists has already explained the language in question:
    Dr. McWHORTER: Well, Ebonics - or black English, as I prefer to call it - is one of a great many dialects of English. And so English comes in a great many varieties, and black English is one of them.

    There's a question that's often asked: Is Ebonics a language? And that's really the wrong way to put it. But if there's an answer to that question, then it is: Yes, Ebonics is a language. It's English. Where we tend to stumble is that we tend to assume that it's bad English or broken English, when really, it's just different English - which, if a Martian came down and had to learn it instead of standard English, would find just as challenging and difficult to master the nuances of as standard English. And I don't just mean the slang. I mean the basic structure of it.
    From http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=129682981

    See also:
    http://www.theroot.com/views/why-dea...ators?page=0,0

    BTW, in case anyone was wondering, we kept the original building, and MPs have to park somewhere else.
    Last edited by bankside; October 3rd, 2012 at 11:56 AM.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

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    Re: The Debate Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Just_Believe18 View Post
    ^ There you go again, Jack Springer. Race baiting as usual.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Did you listen to the video of Obama in 2007 talking to a convention of black ministers?

    I suggest that you do.

    JB - it is pretty freaky - I know the "source" is not one you would necessarily dig but it's obama speaking

    http://dailycaller.com/2012/10/02/ob...t-new-orleans/

  28. #28
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    I don't like that Obama gets the first question of the Debate and Romney gets the Last word of the Night......


    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Did you listen to the video of Obama in 2007 talking to a convention of black ministers?
    I suggest that you do.
    Yes it was played on Cable news & CSPAN back in 2007...So what does it matter that he was speaking to Black Pastors and talking about The Lord?

    Jack do you realize that when you insinuate at every turn that Obama is a racist it's really a reflection on yourself?

    You have a serious problem with his Skin Color and your anger has nothing to with his policies..Your issues with Obama is more personal and more about your over-all view of certain groups in America...

  29. #29
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    If I were Romney I'd ask Obama why he has a different accent and verbiage when he talks with black people.
    If I were Obama I'd ask Romney why he has a different tone and message when he talks with rich people.

  30. #30
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Rexx View Post
    If I were Obama I'd ask Romney why he has a different tone and message when he talks with rich people.


    HAAHAHAHAAH! Perfect!
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

  31. #31

    Re: The Debate Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MisterMajestic View Post
    I don't like that Obama gets the first question of the Debate and Romney gets the Last word of the Night......

    Yes it was played on Cable news & CSPAN back in 2007...So what does it matter that he was speaking to Black Pastors and talking about The Lord?

    Jack do you realize that when you insinuate at every turn that Obama is a racist it's really a reflection on yourself?

    You have a serious problem with his Skin Color and your anger has nothing to with his policies..Your issues with Obama is more personal and more about your over-all view of certain groups in America...
    I don't have a problem with skin color but I think our dear President does.

    Obama grew up in a community of elites in Hawaii -- he did not grow up in the "hood." He's a fake.

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    Re: The Debate Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Rexx View Post
    If I were Obama I'd ask Romney why he has a different tone and message when he talks with rich people.


    .................
    #439th oldest member on JUB.

  33. #33
    JUB Addict chrisrobin's Avatar
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    If I were Romney I'd ask Obama why he has a different accent and verbiage when he talks with black people.
    If I were Romney, I'd ask Obama why he used to eat dog meat.

    In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

  34. #34
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    Hopefully the zings will be much more subtle and very much more intelligent than our offerings...lol.

    This debate has no set times. i wonder who runneth off at the mouth and who simply steals the show with short connecting insights. I have my guesses but we will see here soon enough
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  35. #35
    The Boy Next Door LuvFindsAndyHardy's Avatar
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MisterMajestic View Post
    Yes it was played on Cable news & CSPAN back in 2007...So what does it matter that he was speaking to Black Pastors and talking about The Lord?
    Because, apparently, we ALLOWED Obama to be president on the unspoken condition he didn't appear "TOO BLACK" wink wink


  36. #36
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    Hey home', I can dig it. Know ain't gonna lay no mo' big rap up on you, man!
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  37. #37
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    Lookin fairly steady so far. Both saying key nothings.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  38. #38
    I love the way you laugh. Thynight's Avatar
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    Romney sounds like he is just saying what people want to hear.
    I couldn't get my mind off you all day.
    ~~~~ ~~

  39. #39
    FEAR THE LIBERAL DETENTE! TX-Beau's Avatar
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    How is that surprising
    ATTACK OF THE LIBERAL ELITE

  40. #40
    FEAR THE LIBERAL DETENTE! TX-Beau's Avatar
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    Romney should have come up with some numbers. Just responding to Obama's numbers isn't helping him.
    ATTACK OF THE LIBERAL ELITE

  41. #41
    JUB Addict DigitalFudge's Avatar
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    I'm watching on CNN can someone confirm what the + and - at the bottom of the screen is? The +represents Obama and the -Romney?

  42. #42
    FEAR THE LIBERAL DETENTE! TX-Beau's Avatar
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    Evidently they have some pool of undecideds out there somewhere with some buttons they are continually pushing. I think it's pro/con on what's being said at the moment.
    ATTACK OF THE LIBERAL ELITE

  43. #43
    FEAR THE LIBERAL DETENTE! TX-Beau's Avatar
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    that just made Romney look petulant.
    ATTACK OF THE LIBERAL ELITE

  44. #44
    JUB Addict DigitalFudge's Avatar
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    Oh wait. I get it. It shows how people are responding to what's being said.


    I'm a mess, sorry

  45. #45
    The Boy Next Door LuvFindsAndyHardy's Avatar
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    Google "romney 5 trillion dollar tax cut" and you get 2.2 million results in 0.24 seconds yet SUDDENLY he's never heard of it!

  46. #46
    FEAR THE LIBERAL DETENTE! TX-Beau's Avatar
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    Evidently right wing mitt is on vacation tonight.
    ATTACK OF THE LIBERAL ELITE

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    Re: The Debate Thread

    Man he's living in the land of makebelieve about Health Care.
    ATTACK OF THE LIBERAL ELITE

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    FEAR THE LIBERAL DETENTE! TX-Beau's Avatar
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    Did Mitt just say regulation in capitalism is essential? I think he did.

    - - - Updated - - -

    For all you free market capitalists in here, how's that dagger feel in your back?
    ATTACK OF THE LIBERAL ELITE

  49. #49
    auribus teneo lupum Stardreamer's Avatar
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    Did Mitt just say regulation in capitalism is essential? I think he did.

    - - - Updated - - -

    For all you free market capitalists in here, how's that dagger feel in your back?
    The idea that free market capitalists think there should be NO regulation of the market is a stereotype.
    Under democracy one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule - and both commonly succeed, and are right. H. L. Mencken US editor (1880 - 1956)

  50. #50
    FEAR THE LIBERAL DETENTE! TX-Beau's Avatar
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    Re: The Debate Thread

    No it's not, hence FREE market.
    ATTACK OF THE LIBERAL ELITE

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