"Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "
--Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000
*the number is now forty
As for Richard III: "After the battle, the dead king's wrecked body had been slung over a horse, its long hair tied under its chin, then set on display at Leicester's Franciscan friary, naked except for a piece of cheap black cloth preserving its modesty, before a perfunctory funeral - 'like a dog in a ditch,' some said." (fn. 18)
Penn, The Winter King, Simon & Schuster, 2011, p. 10, citing Davies, The War of the Roses in European Context, , pp. 4-6,
in A.J. Pollard, London, 1995. (quoting contemporary Bishop John Morton).
This seems to not be a State Funeral.
Clearly Edward V and his brother deserve recognition.
Last edited by palbert; October 12th, 2012 at 12:46 PM.
^ I just googled the words "catholic persecution england 16th century" and "the sacking of the monasteries"
and it came up with
"Eighty-five martyrs died for the Catholic faith in England and Wales more than three centuries ago"
Henry VIII destroyed most of the monasteries forming the Church of England. He wanted the riches.
85 - when? Catholic Mary burned far more Puritans.
Pat - this thread is about King Richard III. If you want to discuss religious oppression, please open your own thread; do not try to hijack this one. And, it is certainly not about Ireland. Thank you.
Last edited by palbert; October 13th, 2012 at 04:08 AM.
This thread isn't about Roman Catholicism per se. The Church of England didn't exist in 1485 and Richard was a Catholic like almost everyone else in England at the time. If the bones do turn out to be his, I imagine the good old C of E will take the lead as it's now the established (or state) church and a Cardinal will be invited along to keep the Catholics happy.
I've just spotted a new piece on the BBC site reporting a parliamentary debate about the site of any reburial:
thanks for the update, Ulom
Thanks for the update.
Any discussion of Edward V and his brother; any reburial?
Last edited by palbert; October 25th, 2012 at 01:51 PM.
I'll play the orator as well as Nestor,
Deceive more slyly than Ulysses could,
And, like a Cylon, take another Troy.
More proof Shakespeare was a time-travelling TV space-opera hack.
I hope the British government decides to follow medieval tradition and for his misdeeds display his head on a pike at a York gate.
interesting. i just read the shakespeare play "Richard III" for one of my courses
Even FOX News is covering developments:
Richard's queen, Anne Neville was buried in Westminster, the exact position being unknown. It is not unlikely that he would have chosen the Abby as well for that reason, but there is again the problem of space.
It looks like it's been decided on a Leicester reburial:
This might interest some of you whilst we await the DNA results. The death has occurred of Lady Kinloss who, but for a quirk of history, would apparently have been the Tudor Queen of England:
That is, of course, unless you believe the throne rightfully belongs to the Earls of Loudoun:
Well, no. The Stuarts and Queen Elizabeth are descended from Henry VIII's eldest Sister Margaret through her two grand children, Mary Queen of Scots, and Lord Darnley. Lady Kinloss is descended from the younger sister, Mary Brandon. By primogeniture, Margaret and her descendants have the superior claim. The wii of Henry was not controling.
I'd call myself a monarchist, but let's not kid ourselves; the royal lineage makes about as much of a straight line as a partyboi at an all-weekend rave.
Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.
Were it found to be HM's remains, will he be given a state funeral like if any modern royal were to die? Or will they just toss his bones in a hole?
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day.
Give a man religion, and he'll starve praying for a fish.
Why can't he given a state funeral? I saw a video in one of the links which suggested he and his tomb would be a tourist drawcard.
If in fact it is Richard III he will be reinterred in Leicester Cathedral, Church of England. It undecided what service he will receive and if any of the royal family will attend.
If you wish to learn the details:
The DNA results are expected in December, but they're not quite ready yet apparently. Here's the latest from the BBC News site:
Of interest to those following this thread:
A gold coin of Richard III's reign has been found near Bosworth Field:
This buttresses the claim that the battle took place at Bosworth Field rather than another location.In the summer of 1485, an unknown person lost a freshly minted angel near were the Battle of Bosworth in the county of Leicestershire. Was he one of Richard III’s or Henry Tudor’s soldiers making his way to do battle in the seemingly endless conflict of the ‘War of the Roses’, or was the coin lost whilst the previous owner was leaving to return home? We can never know if the coin witnessed the battle, but its loss so soon after being struck is a bonus for the modern collector as a piece of such quality is a rarity. Richard III’s wonderful ‘boar’s head’ mint mark is as clear as a summer day.
A gold ANGEL coin with a Value of 6 Shilling & 6d. Whomever such a coin was a person of wealth. Weight 5.16g
New documentary and physical evidence shows that the battle may have not taken place at Ambion Hill:
My previous post should have said "in the area of Bosworth Field." (Too late to edit.)Bosworth, fought in 1485, which saw the death of Richard III, was believed to have taken place on Ambion Hill, near Sutton Cheney in Leicestershire.
But a study of original documents and archaeological survey of the area has now pinpointed a site in fields more than a mile to the south west.
Of the most recent, and important finds made, was a gilded silver badge in the shape of a boar - Richard's personal emblem.
Experts believe this would have been given to one of the doomed king's closest companions and lost in the final stages of the battle.
Last edited by palbert; December 24th, 2012 at 07:46 AM.
that's a well-endowed boar
Yes I do like those codpieces.
When George W. Bush was President, I knew somebody who called him King George the Führer'th.
"All legal U. S. residents who are 18 years or older, shall have an unconditional right to vote." - We need a 28th Amendment to the U. S. Constitution which resembles this...NOW!
VOTING: Just remember: "Be careful of what you DON'T wish for. You might just get it." GET OUT AND VOTE for what you DO wish for.
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires" - Susan B. Anthony
The coin is worth about 20,000 pounds per Spink's 2012 catalogue. I collect English coins, but I don't have one like that. LOL.
Richard the Third is Cockney rhyming slang for faeces.Richard III has the dubious distinction of being immortalised in Cockney rhyming slang, Richard the Third meaning turd
I'm pink therefore I'm Spam
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_of_GloucesterThe fifth and final creation was for Prince Henry, son of George V. Upon Prince Henry's death, the dukedom was inherited by his son Prince Richard, who still holds the title. The heir to the title is presently Alexander Windsor, styled Earl of Ulster. The next in the line of succession is the Earl of Ulster's infant son Xan Windsor, known by his grandfather's third title of Lord Culloden. The currently Royal dukedom will devolve into an ordinary one when it will be inherited by the Earl of Ulster; as a great-grandson of a sovereign he lacks any royal style.
It will be remembered that Richard III was Duke of Gloucester before taking the Crown:
The title was next conferred on Richard Plantagenet, brother to King Edward IV. When Richard himself became King, the dukedom merged into the crown. After Richard's death, the title was considered ominous, since the first three such Dukes had all died without issue to inherit their titles. The title was not awarded for over 150 years, the next to receive the dukedom being the son of King Charles I, Henry Stuart, upon whose death the title became officially extinct.
What was believed to be the remains of Richard III will be identified as such.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/9...chard-III.htmlHuman remains found in the resting place of Richard III have already been identified as those of the king but information is being held back ahead of a major press conference next month, sources close to the project claim.
Additional evidence not revealed at a major press conference after the remains were found demonstrates beyond all reasonable doubt that the body is the King's, even without genetic proof, the source said.
I am planning a trip to England this summer. I wonder if they will require tickets for the ceremony.
I have before and they were most accomadating.
I would expect just about every Ricardian to have the same query.
I still don't understand why the national sovereign would be buried way, way out in the provinces.
Because the Sax-Coburg-Gothas don't want a Plantagenet revival.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Merry_Wives_of_WindsorDuring the period of anti-German feelings in England during World War I, many German names and titles were changed and given more English-sounding names, including the royal family's from Saxe-Coburg-Gotha to Windsor. Kaiser Wilhelm II countered this by jokingly saying that he was off to see a performance of 'The Merry Wives of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha.' (Referring to Shakespeare's play The Merry Wives of Windsor.)