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  1. #1
    JUB Addict Lostlover's Avatar
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    Apple Is Really Overdoing It Now

    I agree with Samsung copying them, but now it seems like Apple is using the court system to stop sales from a competitor. I don't like that component but I do like scaring Asian companies from doing this in the future whether it's cars, technology, or industrial design.

    The New York Times

    This injunction stinks to high heaven.

    Any one else's thoughts?

    All the products Apple wants Samsung to stop selling:

    http://gizmodo.com/5938238/apple-wan...msung-products
    "Rarely do we find men who willingly engage in hard solid thinking. There is an almost universal quest for easy answers and half-baked solutions. Nothing pains some people more than having to think.'' - Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

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    Re: Apple Is Really Overdoing It Now

    For some reason, my apple macbook didn't like the NYT link...

    But, from what I read in USA Today this weekend was that even Google ADVISED Samsung to NOT copy Apple SO BLATANTLY...

    Maybe the should have heeded the warning...

    It took Samsung 90 days to copy 4 years worth of R&D from Apple...

    I think a company SHOULD be able to recoup their investment on ONE hand -- and on the other, I think that patents CAN lead to stifling innovation...

    Maybe this ruling will lead to differentiation which wouldn't be a BAD thing...

    Oh -- and I have a Motorola Android phone -- so its not like I'm super one sided for Apple...

    "Whatever you do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius and power and magic in it..." Goethe

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    JUB Addict Lostlover's Avatar
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    Re: Apple Is Really Overdoing It Now

    I'd love to read said USA Today article. And I don't mean to talk with blanket terms, but Asian companies are known for copying/lifting ideas. I keep reading that consumers will lose from the $1.1B verdict. I see it as the opposite. A big company like Samsung will have to offer a different enough product to compete, legally. It will be forced to do its own R&D. We, the consumers, win.
    "Rarely do we find men who willingly engage in hard solid thinking. There is an almost universal quest for easy answers and half-baked solutions. Nothing pains some people more than having to think.'' - Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

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    Re: Apple Is Really Overdoing It Now

    Here is the link to the article I referred to...

    As usual for USA Today -- it is not in-depth or biased -- just an overview...

    Jury: Samsung violated Apple patents

    And an important quote which pretty much made me side with Apple on this one...

    In closing arguments on Tuesday, Apple attorney Harold McElhinny alleged that Samsung documents show that in three months, it was able to copy four years of Apple development. He said they show "hundreds of pages of copying directions" for icon design and functions such as tap-to-zoom that were put into the Galaxy phone and tablet line.

    He also said Samsung met with Google, which advised the company to change Galaxy designs, but Samsung declined
    "Whatever you do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius and power and magic in it..." Goethe

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    JUB Addict Lostlover's Avatar
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    Re: Apple Is Really Overdoing It Now

    Thank you^^^.
    "Rarely do we find men who willingly engage in hard solid thinking. There is an almost universal quest for easy answers and half-baked solutions. Nothing pains some people more than having to think.'' - Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

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    Re: Apple Is Really Overdoing It Now

    I have to side with apple on this - and that makes my eye twitch. The UI was an intentional rip-off. The tap-to-zoom, dimensions, etc. should be thrown-out.

    I think back to the IBM and IBM compatible days; what would have happened if IBM went after those who re-engineered their BIOS? What if early auto makers went after others for using 'similar engines'? You have a 101 keyboard too? Can't have that. Serial mouse with three buttons? Ohnoes! Where would we be in computing were companies this litigious 30-40 years ago.

    If people were buying samsung devices expecting an apple experience then I see grounds for enforcement. But I doubt people say to themselves, "gee, I really want an apple but I'm going to buy samsung because it looks like the same thing." He who want apple products buys apple products and usually doesn't go looking for alternatives.

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    Re: Apple Is Really Overdoing It Now

    .
    I don't understand patent laws and i think copying the design is ok


    NEVER LISTEN TO A ONE SIDED STORY AND JUDGE.

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    Re: Apple Is Really Overdoing It Now

    Quote Originally Posted by looseliam View Post
    I have to side with apple on this - and that makes my eye twitch. The UI was an intentional rip-off. The tap-to-zoom, dimensions, etc. should be thrown-out.

    I think back to the IBM and IBM compatible days; what would have happened if IBM went after those who re-engineered their BIOS? What if early auto makers went after others for using 'similar engines'? You have a 101 keyboard too? Can't have that. Serial mouse with three buttons? Ohnoes! Where would we be in computing were companies this litigious 30-40 years ago.

    If people were buying samsung devices expecting an apple experience then I see grounds for enforcement. But I doubt people say to themselves, "gee, I really want an apple but I'm going to buy samsung because it looks like the same thing." He who want apple products buys apple products and usually doesn't go looking for alternatives.
    I respect your opinion and I'd like to hear more of it since I have about a minute experience with Samsung's products. You had me until the comparison to engines and other innovations. Why would any company invest in R&D if what they're investing in can be lifted with no consequences by a competitor? Why put all the money into it if it won't be yours?
    "Rarely do we find men who willingly engage in hard solid thinking. There is an almost universal quest for easy answers and half-baked solutions. Nothing pains some people more than having to think.'' - Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

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    Re: Apple Is Really Overdoing It Now

    Best professor I ever had in college 2 years ago told me this after talking to him after class. He said best field of law to get into right now is copyright and intellectual property law. I mean look at all the major cases in past 5 years or decade. More and more high profile cases are becoming more frequent. Not to mention theirs some crazy laws that some label companies and others are pushing, like singing a your favorite song even to your self, they are trying to make illegal you have to pay to be able to sing it. Honestly we have only seen the start of whats going to come in following years with copyright and intellectual property cases.

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    Re: Apple Is Really Overdoing It Now

    Take Windows Phone as a prime example of seeing the iPhone and thinking, "Wow, Apple were brave to try that. I wonder what we can come up with?" The new Metro UI is beautiful, functional and so far removed from iOS. Samsung worked hard to make Android work, look and feel like iOS.

    This sort of win for Apple means that we should see more competition and variety in the market, not less. We'll finally have some proper differentiation of products, instead of everyone trying to release another iPhone clone.

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    Re: Apple Is Really Overdoing It Now

    Quote Originally Posted by Lostlover View Post
    I agree with Samsung copying them, but now it seems like Apple is using the court system to stop sales from a competitor. I don't like that component but I do like scaring Asian companies from doing this in the future whether it's cars, technology, or industrial design.

    The New York Times

    This injunction stinks to high heaven.

    Any one else's thoughts?

    All the products Apple wants Samsung to stop selling:

    Apple Wants to Ban These Samsung Products
    It doesn't stink. The jury already decided Samsung infringed, so Apple has the right to ask for a ban on infringing products.

  12. #12
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    Re: Apple Is Really Overdoing It Now

    I hate apple, they are a bully and I hope this firebacks to their arrogant sorry asses

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    Re: Apple Is Really Overdoing It Now

    Gee, thanks for that scintillating addition to the thread.

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    Re: Apple Is Really Overdoing It Now

    Quote Originally Posted by silverbelt View Post
    Take Windows Phone as a prime example of seeing the iPhone and thinking, "Wow, Apple were brave to try that. I wonder what we can come up with?" The new Metro UI is beautiful, functional and so far removed from iOS. Samsung worked hard to make Android work, look and feel like iOS.

    This sort of win for Apple means that we should see more competition and variety in the market, not less. We'll finally have some proper differentiation of products, instead of everyone trying to release another iPhone clone.
    I agree 100% with what you said, especially about the Windows Phone (stunning UI) and increase variety in the marketplace. Companies will now have to compete with their own ideas.
    "Rarely do we find men who willingly engage in hard solid thinking. There is an almost universal quest for easy answers and half-baked solutions. Nothing pains some people more than having to think.'' - Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

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    Re: Apple Is Really Overdoing It Now

    Samsung is one thing (I love my Galaxy sIII btw), but if Apple tries to go after the android OS and Google, I see Google putting an injunction on them using their "products". Google has already barred Apple from using youtube and gmail apps on their products and I know my iPad defaults to Yahoo! search engine (Msft has bing so that's another rival).

    BTW, guess who owns the copyright on 4G LTE technology? Samsung. That's the delicious irony in this case so expect a counter-sue on the iPhone 5.

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    Re: Apple Is Really Overdoing It Now

    Quote Originally Posted by maxpowr9 View Post
    BTW, guess who owns the copyright on 4G LTE technology? Samsung. That's the delicious irony in this case so expect a counter-sue on the iPhone 5.
    Uh-oh...

    "Whatever you do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius and power and magic in it..." Goethe

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    Re: Apple Is Really Overdoing It Now

    Let us not forget, though, that the patents that are crucial for LTE operability are required to be licensed (see FRAND).

    As I recall there are some not-so-important patents pertaining the LTE that could be used in fighting apple.

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    JUB Addict maxpowr9's Avatar
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    Re: Apple Is Really Overdoing It Now

    Despite the recent release of 4G LTE phones, the technology has been around since 2007. South Korea, a country the size of Kentucky, already has full 4G wireless capabilities in their country [I won't go into their strict internet laws] and is actively working on 5G tech already.

    Again, Apple is not an innovator but an excellent marketer and only that. You look at the iPhone 5 and it has very similar specs to the Samsung sIII galaxy.

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    Re: Apple Is Really Overdoing It Now

    Quote Originally Posted by maxpowr9 View Post
    Samsung is one thing (I love my Galaxy sIII btw), but if Apple tries to go after the android OS and Google, I see Google putting an injunction on them using their "products". Google has already barred Apple from using youtube and gmail apps on their products and I know my iPad defaults to Yahoo! search engine (Msft has bing so that's another rival).
    Google has no interest in fighting Apple. If Apple sues them, there will be a quick settlement. Since the iPhone, Google has made more money off of Apple's products than they have off Android. Google will not cut off a revenue source that contributes billions of dollars in ads every year when they know they can settle.

    Also, Google has not 'barred' Apple from using anything. There is a Gmail app in the app store (which sucks, by the way), Google is building a new YouTube app for iOS 6, and may build a Maps app as well. Apple has been moving away from using some Google services like Maps, but that's because Apple thinks they can do it better. All Apple products are defaulted to search Google in Safari. Google pays millions a year for that privilege.

    BTW, guess who owns the copyright on 4G LTE technology? Samsung. That's the delicious irony in this case so expect a counter-sue on the iPhone 5.
    No, the copyright is owned by ETSI. Samsung owns 12% of the LTE PATENTS. But that is largely irrelevant. For Samsung to own LTE patents, they are required to ask for licensing on FRAND terms. That means they can't seek outrageous licensing fees, can't sue for an injunction, and can't treat Apple any differently than any other licensee. Samsung has already been slapped around in court for abusing their 3G patents, so they won't be likely to do the same with their 4G patents.

    But that doesn't even matter; Any components Apple buys will already be licensed by Qualcomm, which is one of the biggest patent-holders, which itself will have licensed patents from the other patent holders. ( Apple itself also owns a pretty big handful of LTE patents. ) Further, Samsung is already under antitrust investigation in the EU and US for abusing Standard Essential Patents (like those required for 3G and 4G), and any action taken against Apple will be met with skepticism and subpoenas.

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    Re: Apple Is Really Overdoing It Now

    Quote Originally Posted by maxpowr9 View Post
    Despite the recent release of 4G LTE phones, the technology has been around since 2007. South Korea, a country the size of Kentucky, already has full 4G wireless capabilities in their country [I won't go into their strict internet laws] and is actively working on 5G tech already.
    Ha uhm, no. 5G isn't even a blip on the radar. Hasn't even passed conceptual phase yet, and won't, considering that LTE is still in its infancy. (it only started deployment in 2009, and took until 2011 before the biggest carriers started rolling it out)

    The next phase is true 4G, which no nation has yet. It is called IMT-Advanced, and will be found in the form of LTE-Advanced. The bandwidth available will be more than three times as much as LTE has now (1 Gbit/s vs. 300 Mbit/s), and will also have a number of other improvements. Its going to be at least another year before LTE-A is ready to be rolled out for customer use, and at least five years before it reaches saturation.

    Again, Apple is not an innovator but an excellent marketer and only that. You look at the iPhone 5 and it has very similar specs to the Samsung sIII galaxy.
    Oh really? Name me one capacitive touchscreen phone with multitouch capabilities and a screen bigger than 3 inches that came out before the iPhone.

    Oh you can't?

    There's your innovation right there.

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    Re: Apple Is Really Overdoing It Now

    Quote Originally Posted by maxpowr9 View Post
    Despite the recent release of 4G LTE phones, the technology has been around since 2007. South Korea, a country the size of Kentucky, already has full 4G wireless capabilities in their country [I won't go into their strict internet laws] and is actively working on 5G tech already.

    Again, Apple is not an innovator but an excellent marketer and only that. You look at the iPhone 5 and it has very similar specs to the Samsung sIII galaxy.
    I generally agree. Apple has the second mover advantage. Someone else comes up with the idea and Apple perfects it.

    Apple didn't create computers, tablet PCs, or even mp3 players. They've marketed their products so well, that iPods are synonymous with mp3 players.
    "Rarely do we find men who willingly engage in hard solid thinking. There is an almost universal quest for easy answers and half-baked solutions. Nothing pains some people more than having to think.'' - Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

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    Re: Apple Is Really Overdoing It Now

    Apple just won because it was a U.S.-based court...

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    Re: Apple Is Really Overdoing It Now

    Quote Originally Posted by Paws View Post
    Apple just won because it was a U.S.-based court...
    That's an overly simplistic view.

    The more complicated (and correct) answer, is that the US has different IP laws than other nations.

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    Re: Apple Is Really Overdoing It Now

    Apple won because the jury were idiots.

    Groklaw - The Foreman's Aha Moment in Apple v. Samsung Was Based on Misunderstanding Prior Art ~pj - Updated

    The foreman in the Apple v. Samsung trial has now done an interview with Bloomberg News, giving him an opportunity to answer some of the criticisms of the verdict. It's a video on YouTube, titled "Apple Jury Foreman: Here's How We Reached a Verdict", and while he answers the criticisms, he describes how the jury, under his instructions, decided that the Samsung prior art didn't invalidate an Apple patent. In doing so, I think he has revealed the biggest mistake of all made by the jury, one so large I don't believe it can be ignored. At a minimum, Apple shouldn't want to win like this. His aha moment, as he calls it, and assuming what he says on the video is accurate, was based on a misunderstanding of what constitutes prior art.


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    Re: Apple Is Really Overdoing It Now

    Moreover, the foreman, Mr. Hogan who made the interview above makes others elsewhere and the more he speaks, the more it looks less tenable for Apple:

    Groklaw - Apple v Samsung Foreman Gets More Things Wrong ~pj

    Back at you, Mr. Hogan. Back at you. But someone calling himself Firewheels responded much more effectively:
    Firewheels @Velvin Hogan
    You're suggesting, then, that the patent is on the particular implementation, not the overall concept? In that case, isn't it clear that in many of the patents no infringement is possible, as clearly an implementation in Java (Android) is distinct from an implementation in Objective-C (iOS)?

    If, however, you're suggesting the patent is on the concept, then clearly there IS prior art, and therefore the patents are invalid.

    Either way, Samsung should not have been charged the exorbitant punitive damages you clearly believed were due.
    Mr. Hogan has not replied, and it's been 4 hours. As another questioner, Bazzatoyou, phrased it after waiting an hour for a response that never came, "Looks like The Hogan has left the room ...!"
    Samsung must be loving the way he's so open, and I'm surprised Apple hasn't gagged this Hogan guy yet.


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    Re: Apple Is Really Overdoing It Now

    ^At that rate, I would not be surprised if Samsung motions for a mistrial. It's too late for the juror to be gagged as he has already spoken and at the worst case, Samsung will owe Apple nothing except lawyer fees.

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    Re: Apple Is Really Overdoing It Now

    Quote Originally Posted by maxpowr9 View Post
    ^At that rate, I would not be surprised if Samsung motions for a mistrial. It's too late for the juror to be gagged as he has already spoken and at the worst case, Samsung will owe Apple nothing except lawyer fees.
    What the judge should do with this information is set aside the jury's verdict and rule as he sees fit and let the appellate court sort it out.

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    Re: Apple Is Really Overdoing It Now

    yeah samsung played games before but apple is probably overreaching now. whenever a giant tech company, like apple, says that they want to 'preserve innovation' i want to vomit.


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    Re: Apple Is Really Overdoing It Now

    This article quite well summarizes my stance on Apple atm...

    Viewpoint: Apple's iPhone launches no longer excite

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    Re: Apple Is Really Overdoing It Now

    The launches may no longer excite but I guarantee the sales will go thru the roof. A lot of them will be first time iPhone buyers and since they have a different connection, it may slow some old users but they can get a simple attachment if they need and extra one. If I didn't have time left on my 4S, I would be getting the new one but all the bugs are usually worked out by the time I'm ready for an upgrade.
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    Re: Apple Is Really Overdoing It Now

    I've got my first iPhone 4S, and my last Apple product, ever. Never again.
    Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness!!!

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    Re: Apple Is Really Overdoing It Now

    Quote Originally Posted by gewhite3 View Post
    I've got my first iPhone 4S, and my last Apple product, ever. Never again.
    Why is that???

    I thought it was a pretty good phone based on what I read -- other than the fact it lacked 4G...

    BECAUSE it lacked 4G -- I ended up with the Droid Razr...

    I'm CURIOUS because my partner is thinking of getting the iPhone 5...

    "Whatever you do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius and power and magic in it..." Goethe

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    Re: Apple Is Really Overdoing It Now

    I just think it's way overpriced and overrated. I don't use the browser that much and I don't text often. Why do I want to pay that much money for something I just want to use for talking? So...... when I get rid of the 4S, I will get something much simpler and cheaper.
    Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness!!!

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    Re: Apple Is Really Overdoing It Now

    So basically you let the hype talk you into something you really didn't want? Did you decide after you paid for the phone that you didn't really want to text or surf the web? I don't talk much or send more than 100 text a month but I use my phone for almost everything and i'm always using the mp3 player or listening to audiobooks or playing games if I'm stuck in a line. Some people, like my mother, just wants a phone that rings, lol. Next year when I get the new iphone, I will let her use my 3GS as an ipod and shelf my 4S for back up.
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    Re: Apple Is Really Overdoing It Now

    I've taken the sim card out of my Apple 3Gs phone and I am using it for the games and other apps. It readily connects to wi-fi if in range and I can go on-line to do stuff.


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    JUB Addict gewhite3's Avatar
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    Re: Apple Is Really Overdoing It Now

    Quote Originally Posted by justdra View Post
    So basically you let the hype talk you into something you really didn't want? Did you decide after you paid for the phone that you didn't really want to text or surf the web? I don't talk much or send more than 100 text a month but I use my phone for almost everything and i'm always using the mp3 player or listening to audiobooks or playing games if I'm stuck in a line. Some people, like my mother, just wants a phone that rings, lol. Next year when I get the new iphone, I will let her use my 3GS as an ipod and shelf my 4S for back up.
    I don't pay attention to "hype". I bought the phone because it had just come out, I was really sick and tired of my old phone (it was touch screen but didn't function well at all). My partner and I were in the mall, we stopped in to the Apple store so he could ask one of the staff about his iPad, then we decided to check out the phones, and I bought one. I like the phone, I just think it's overpriced and overrated, like I said. I won't make the same mistake again and now I know for certain that when I hear the fan boys talk about how "perfect" Apple is, they are full of it.
    Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness!!!

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    Re: Apple Is Really Overdoing It Now

    Quote Originally Posted by star-warrior View Post
    Grok law is not reputable. The judge will not overturn the verdict based on what he's said.

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    Re: Apple Is Really Overdoing It Now

    Mid-October
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-19989750
    Apple has lost its appeal against a UK ruling that Samsung had not infringed its design rights.

    A judge at the High Court in London had originally ruled in July that the look of Samsung's Galaxy Tab computers was not too similar to designs registered in connection with the iPad.

    ...

    Apple still needs to run ads saying Samsung had not infringed its rights.
    November
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20165664
    Apple ordered to re-write 'inaccurate' Samsung statement
    Apple has 48 hours to re-write a statement on its website relating to its design rights dispute with Samsung, UK judges have ruled.

    Apple was forced on 18 October to publish a message making it clear that Samsung had not infringed the iPad's registered design.

    ....

    One of the other judges, Sir Robin Jacob, added: "I would like to see the head of Apple [Tim Cook] make an affidavit about why that is such a technical difficulty for the Apple company."
    Slap in the face!

    Apple's Ad : http://www.apple.com/uk/legal-judgement/
    Last edited by star-warrior; November 1st, 2012 at 02:29 PM.


  40. #40
    Quality posting since 2K7 Nishin's Avatar
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    Re: Apple Is Really Overdoing It Now


  41. #41
    Slippery When Wet
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    Re: Apple Is Really Overdoing It Now

    Quote Originally Posted by nishin View Post
    yightz!!!

    The bad guys WIN for ALL the RIGHT reasons...

    It is ASTOUNDING that APPLE didn't trademark the iPhone name until 2007 in Mexico...

    And -- THEN -- they chose to fight it in court rather than just PAY the BAD GUYS OFF for its SNEAKY yet LEGAL iFone trademark...

    How bizarre...

    "Whatever you do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius and power and magic in it..." Goethe

  42. #42
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Apple Is Really Overdoing It Now

    Apple... what's the deal with the Ipad mini? No HD video, piss poor sound, a mediocre display... and it costs $329 ($360-370 after tax)? I'll take the Kindle Fire HD ($199) over it. People talk about innovation, but how is that device innovative? And who in their right mind would spend close to $400 on a tablet with no HD?

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    Re: Apple Is Really Overdoing It Now

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    Apple... what's the deal with the Ipad mini? No HD video, piss poor sound, a mediocre display... and it costs $329 ($360-370 after tax)? I'll take the Kindle Fire HD ($199) over it. People talk about innovation, but how is that device innovative? And who in their right mind would spend close to $400 on a tablet with no HD?
    People that want a tablet that can, you know, actually do things. The Fire is good as a multimedia consumption device, but not for anything else.

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    Re: Apple Is Really Overdoing It Now

    Quote Originally Posted by Nishin View Post
    Not quite. That story has been debunked. Apple still owns the iPhone trademark in two other classes, and can still use it as it sees fit.

  45. #45
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Apple Is Really Overdoing It Now

    Quote Originally Posted by JB3 View Post
    People that want a tablet that can, you know, actually do things. The Fire is good as a multimedia consumption device, but not for anything else.
    That table can actually do things? The Fire has a lot of capability on it... and quite a few different options. It's a versatile device. And there are other tablets cheaper than the ipad mini that can do many things... the ipad mini is a piece of overpriced crap.

  46. #46
    JohannBessler
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    Re: Apple Is Really Overdoing It Now

    Quote Originally Posted by swerve View Post
    I think a company SHOULD be able to recoup their investment on ONE hand -- and on the other, I think that patents CAN lead to stifling innovation...
    Swerve, I see it exactly the opposite way.

    Patent infringements can lead to stifling innovation.

  47. #47
    JohannBessler
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    Re: Apple Is Really Overdoing It Now

    Quote Originally Posted by gewhite3 View Post
    I just think it's way overpriced and overrated. I don't use the browser that much and I don't text often. Why do I want to pay that much money for something I just want to use for talking? So...... when I get rid of the 4S, I will get something much simpler and cheaper.
    I agree.

    My OH just got an iPhone. I thought it was a piece of shit. In fact, it was defective that he had to return it.

    The biggest thing I don't like about the iPhone is that the SIM card's not transferable, unlike any other cellphone I've ever own. I won't stand for that. I frequently switch my phones out by moving my SIM card from one phone to the other.

  48. #48
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Apple Is Really Overdoing It Now

    On my last post I said table.. I meant to say tablet... referring to the ipad mini. I still stand by the statement that it's useless.

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    Re: Apple Is Really Overdoing It Now

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    That table can actually do things? The Fire has a lot of capability on it... and quite a few different options. It's a versatile device. And there are other tablets cheaper than the ipad mini that can do many things... the ipad mini is a piece of overpriced crap.
    The Fire uses a highly curated and limited app store, and is missing basic features like a decent email app and a calendar app. The only reason anyone should buy the Fire is if they've already bought into the Amazon ecosystem or only plan on using it for media consumption. Buyers are better off choosing the Nexus 7 or iPad mini.

    Also, the mini is not an overpriced piece of crap. For what it brings, the price is fair. You should also note that the mini is in a different class than the Fire or Nexus 7. It actually competes against the Galaxy Tab 7.7/8.9. The 8.9 is actually more expensive than the mini, while the 7.7 rings in less expensive. Both, however, have worse specs.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    On my last post I said table.. I meant to say tablet... referring to the ipad mini. I still stand by the statement that it's useless.
    You stand by your statement because you've obviously never used one.

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    Re: Apple Is Really Overdoing It Now

    Quote Originally Posted by JohannBessler View Post
    I agree.

    My OH just got an iPhone. I thought it was a piece of shit. In fact, it was defective that he had to return it.

    The biggest thing I don't like about the iPhone is that the SIM card's not transferable, unlike any other cellphone I've ever own. I won't stand for that. I frequently switch my phones out by moving my SIM card from one phone to the other.
    What are you talking about? You can move the sim between the devices as easily as any other GSM or LTE device.

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