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  1. #51
    JohannBessler
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    Re: Apple Is Really Overdoing It Now

    The SIMs are different sizes, JB3.

  2. #52
    JUB Addict andysayshi's Avatar
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    Re: Apple Is Really Overdoing It Now

    Unfortunately, in this world of ever-thinner and lighter phones, SIM cards have had to change. Standard sized SIM cards are the domain of old clunkers now.

    The iPhone 4 and 4S switched to the MicroSIM, which has now become quite common on smartphones, like the Samsung Galaxy S3 etc. Apple have moved the iPhone 5 to the NanoSIM, which will no doubt become the standard for all phones over the next year or two.

    All of these cards are actually the same electronics, just stuck to a smaller piece of plastic. With a Stanley knife and a steady hand they can all be "upgraded".

    With regard to tablets, I'm also with JB3. The Kindle Fire HD is okay - great if you're an Amazon customer, but otherwise pretty limited. The Nexus, however, is an awesome little tablet for the money. I recently bought 20 of them and used them as giveaways for my business at a convention, with my company brochure on it rather than on paper. Needless to say, when you give the Marketing Manager of a company a free tablet while all the other guys are handing out their paper brochures, you get quite a bit of positive attention!

    Haven't tried an iPad mini, so I can't vouch for them, but as a heavily invested iOS customer, it would make sense for me to buy an iOS tablet if I was in the market for one.

  3. #53
    JohannBessler
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    Re: Apple Is Really Overdoing It Now

    ^They can be upgraded but they can't be downgraded, Andy.

    For example, I couldn't have taken the new SIM card out of the iPhone and put it in my old dumbphone.By contrast, I can and do switch my old SIM card between my hybrid and my dumbphone.

    That's a dealkiller for me--what happens if my iPhone goes bad for some reason? Then I'd end up with no service at all.

  4. #54
    JUB Addict andysayshi's Avatar
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    Re: Apple Is Really Overdoing It Now

    You're going to have the same issue with most contemporary phones you buy. Just put an adaptor in your wallet in case you should need it. You can buy them on eBay for a dollar or two each.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  5. #55
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Apple Is Really Overdoing It Now

    Quote Originally Posted by JB3 View Post
    The Fire uses a highly curated and limited app store, and is missing basic features like a decent email app and a calendar app. The only reason anyone should buy the Fire is if they've already bought into the Amazon ecosystem or only plan on using it for media consumption. Buyers are better off choosing the Nexus 7 or iPad mini.
    Not convincing at all. The Fire has a very expansive app store. I've seen it.

    Also, the mini is not an overpriced piece of crap. For what it brings, the price is fair. You should also note that the mini is in a different class than the Fire or Nexus 7. It actually competes against the Galaxy Tab 7.7/8.9. The 8.9 is actually more expensive than the mini, while the 7.7 rings in less expensive. Both, however, have worse specs.
    Are we really going to argue about this? The price for the mini is NOT fair. It's far from that. And don't even look at the Fire... take a look at the other tablets out there running off Droid. Yes, the mini is overpriced... ridiculously.

    Edit: OH and I have used it. Nice try, JB. Attitude, attitude. One can't handle the facts.

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    Re: Apple Is Really Overdoing It Now

    Quote Originally Posted by JohannBessler View Post
    The SIMs are different sizes, JB3.
    Okay, go to ebay and get an adapter for 50 cents. Problem (even though its not really a problem) solved.

  7. #57
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    Re: Apple Is Really Overdoing It Now

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    Not convincing at all. The Fire has a very expansive app store. I've seen it.

    It is tiny compared to the App and Play stores. A very large number of apps are not available in the Amazon app store that are available in the Play store, and Amazon has neutered Android's ability to side load applications in their version of the OS.

    Are we really going to argue about this? The price for the mini is NOT fair. It's far from that. And don't even look at the Fire... take a look at the other tablets out there running off Droid. Yes, the mini is overpriced... ridiculously.

    Edit: OH and I have used it. Nice try, JB. Attitude, attitude. One can't handle the facts.
    Yes, we are, because you are incorrect. The price being charged for the Mini is fair, especially compared to the competition I listed above. The Mini does not compete with either the Nexus 7 or Kindle Fire HD 7 inch. It competes with the larger tablets from Samsung, Amazon, and others, all of which are priced the same or higher than the Mini. (Galaxy Tab 8.9 is $469, Kindle 8.9 is $314, IdeaPad is $299, Nook HD+ is $299) It is priced comparably to the tablets it actually competes with.

    Oh, and it is Android, not Droid. One is the name of an operating system, the other is the marketing name for a lineup of handsets on Verizon Wireless.

  8. #58
    JohannBessler
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    Re: Apple Is Really Overdoing It Now

    Quote Originally Posted by andysayshi View Post
    You're going to have the same issue with most contemporary phones you buy. Just put an adaptor in your wallet in case you should need it. You can buy them on eBay for a dollar or two each.

    ]
    I see. I hadn't heard of those before, Andy.

    I'm no longer interested in the iPhone, though. It was never practical for my needs, anyway.

  9. #59

    Re: Apple Is Really Overdoing It Now

    I've played with the galaxy S2 and iPhone 4S... extensively. I myself own an LG Thrill (because of its 3D capabilities). When I got to play with someone's iPhone 5 I saw nothing new to explore. Everything seemed like the same old, same old...boring. When I got to play with the S3, the UI felt fresh and made me want to play around with it and there were so many new features from Samsung to explore, like the popup video, burst shot, all the NFC stuff.

    When jellybean hits for S3... there will be a smoother UI and Google Now which will be fun to try out.

    It feels like iOS 6 offered just improvements... nothing new.

    Quote Originally Posted by JB3 View Post
    Yes, we are, because you are incorrect. The price being charged for the Mini is fair, especially compared to the competition I listed above. The Mini does not compete with either the Nexus 7 or Kindle Fire HD 7 inch. It competes with the larger tablets from Samsung, Amazon, and others, all of which are priced the same or higher than the Mini. (Galaxy Tab 8.9 is $469, Kindle 8.9 is $314, IdeaPad is $299, Nook HD+ is $299) It is priced comparably to the tablets it actually competes with.
    The iPad Mini is 7.9" while the Nexus 7 and Kindle Fire HD 7 are 7", but they have higher resolutions and better displays, the better resolutions compensates, making them comparable. http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57...-mini-display/. Also, the iPad Mini was released at such a specific price and time because obviously, it is trying to compete with something popular, e.g., the Nexus 7. Why would the iPad Mini be targeted to compete with something that is outdated by a year (does not include Kindle Fire HD 8.9")? One should compare the most updated mini tablets with each other, if you compare outdated tablets, you won't be comparing the most updated OS version.

    Also, the Galaxy 8.9 and Kindle Fire HD 8.9 have a 1" difference vs the iPad Mini 7.9" and the IdeaPad 9"/Nook HD+ 9" have a 1.1" difference with the iPad Mini, this makes them less comparable with it than the Nexus 7 and Kindle Fire HD 7".


    From a personal perspective, the Apple iPad Mini advertisements seem to display the iPad Mini as the same thing as the iPad, where everything performs at the exact same speeds. This advertisement is leading me to feel... are they trying to discourage people from buying the iPad?

    Apple seems to be slipping...
    http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2411811,00.asp

  10. #60
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    Re: Apple Is Really Overdoing It Now

    Quote Originally Posted by TitaniumSky View Post
    I've played with the galaxy S2 and iPhone 4S... extensively. I myself own an LG Thrill (because of its 3D capabilities). When I got to play with someone's iPhone 5 I saw nothing new to explore. Everything seemed like the same old, same old...boring. When I got to play with the S3, the UI felt fresh and made me want to play around with it and there were so many new features from Samsung to explore, like the popup video, burst shot, all the NFC stuff.

    When jellybean hits for S3... there will be a smoother UI and Google Now which will be fun to try out.

    It feels like iOS 6 offered just improvements... nothing new.
    I would agree generally, but it really depends what you need. I got an iPhone 5, and before that I had a Galaxy S3 and Galaxy Nexus. Both of them were great phones, but each had its issues. This is what I didn't like:

    -Cheap construction
    -Screens weren't great. If you know what a Pentile Matrix is, then you know why the S3 and Nexus weren't all they could be.
    -The apps I use regularly are much lower quality on Android.
    -Android phones have gotten too damn big. You sort of get used to it, but after having my 5 for a few weeks, the S3 feels absolutely massive.
    -I don't care for Samsung's skin. Samsung is trying really hard to be the 'whole package' with hardware and software, but they're just not very good at the software side yet.
    -NFC is useless, at least at Verizon. No Google wallet. No Isis. (yet) All you can do is share stuff, and since I know no one with an NFC-capable phone, its pretty pointless.

    It sounds like I hated both, but I didn't. Both were good phones, but ultimately not for me. That is especially true now that the iPhone has a bigger screen and LTE, which were my biggest gripes with the iPhone. HTC has a new phone coming out for Verizon called the Droid DNA, and I may take a look at it. I've always loved HTCs, and even though it has a big 5" screen, the rest may make up for it. I might also try out a Nexus 4 with a prepaid SIM and see if I like it. If I don't, know worries since I'll still have a phone I like.

    The iPad Mini is 7.9" while the Nexus 7 and Kindle Fire HD 7 are 7", but they have higher resolutions and better displays, the better resolutions compensates, making them comparable. http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57...-mini-display/. Also, the iPad Mini was released at such a specific price and time because obviously, it is trying to compete with something popular, e.g., the Nexus 7. Why would the iPad Mini be targeted to compete with something that is outdated by a year (does not include Kindle Fire HD 8.9")? One should compare the most updated mini tablets with each other, if you compare outdated tablets, you won't be comparing the most updated OS version.
    Ehh. Apple released it when they did because of Christmas. Part of the reason they didn't release it with a higher spec screen is because the technology for a screen using Apple's retina philosophy (pixel doubling, essentially), doesn't exist. There's speculation they could introduce a new resolution for the Mini so they don't have to make that big of a leap, but that they're waiting until after the iPhone 5's resolution is fully 'absorbed' by delevopers.

    Also, the Galaxy 8.9 and Kindle Fire HD 8.9 have a 1" difference vs the iPad Mini 7.9" and the IdeaPad 9"/Nook HD+ 9" have a 1.1" difference with the iPad Mini, this makes them less comparable with it than the Nexus 7 and Kindle Fire HD 7".
    Yes, however, the iPad mini is a premium tablet, which the Nexus and Fire HD are not. They may be very good tablets for the price, but they're still budget tablets nonetheless.

    From a personal perspective, the Apple iPad Mini advertisements seem to display the iPad Mini as the same thing as the iPad, where everything performs at the exact same speeds. This advertisement is leading me to feel... are they trying to discourage people from buying the iPad?

    Apple seems to be slipping...
    http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2411811,00.asp
    No. The message they're trying to send is that the Mini is an iPad, but smaller, and that it can run all of the same apps as the bigger iPad. Its a subtle shot at the limited nature of the Fires, and the limited tablet app selection on Android.

  11. #61
    Quality posting since 2K7 Nishin's Avatar
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    Re: Apple Is Really Overdoing It Now

    D670.713...



    Seriously... does the Cupertino bully know any limit??

  12. #62
    panegyric JUB Admin Corny's Avatar
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    Re: Apple Is Really Overdoing It Now

    I have had flash scripts do that 10 years ago ..
    Check out my very own Body Hair Lovers and Photography Groups!

  13. #63
    The Mother of Loki Laufey's Avatar
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    Re: Apple Is Really Overdoing It Now

    You could argue that every company that uses folders is copying Microsoft.

    These copyright laws are to extreme I think.

    P.s. The Samsung Galaxy's are much better than the overrated iPhone

  14. #64
    Keeland
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    Re: Apple Is Really Overdoing It Now

    Quote Originally Posted by Geiri85 View Post
    You could argue that every company that uses folders is copying Microsoft.
    You could, but you'd lose.

  15. #65
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    Re: Apple Is Really Overdoing It Now

    Quote Originally Posted by Nishin View Post
    D670.713...



    Seriously... does the Cupertino bully know any limit??
    ...Or you could actually do a little research and understand that the design patent is very, very limited. Literally what you see in that picture is what is patented. Anything that is even the slightest bit different would not be in violation of that patent.

  16. #66

    Re: Apple Is Really Overdoing It Now

    Quote Originally Posted by JB3 View Post
    -NFC is useless, at least at Verizon. No Google wallet. No Isis. (yet) All you can do is share stuff, and since I know no one with an NFC-capable phone, its pretty pointless.
    I can see your point... since NFC in phones is new, it does not have wide use yet, but it also depends on whether or not you are getting a 2 year contract, because with that, future technology, which has not been fully adopted yet, allows you to stay more up to date.

    Quote Originally Posted by JB3 View Post
    Yes, however, the iPad mini is a premium tablet, which the Nexus and Fire HD are not. They may be very good tablets for the price, but they're still budget tablets nonetheless.
    Well, what exactly is a 'premium' tablet? Just because it is considered 'premium', does not invalidate it's unreasonable cost.
    Yes, the iPad Mini may have a faster processor, but the point of all this comparison was to demonstrate how overpriced the iPad Mini is. The 'budget' Android tablets perform, in some aspects close or better, than the iPad Mini, which regardless of labels like 'premium', says that the iPad Mini is overpriced.

    'Premium' Android tablets may perform worse than the iPad Mini, but since the cons of a 'budget' tablet are cancelled out by the cons of the iPad Mini, it is overpriced.

    Ultimately, it may be better to assign value based on perspective due to the gamut of available features in each tablet; what may be 'premium' to one may not be so for all.

    Quote Originally Posted by JB3 View Post
    No. The message they're trying to send is that the Mini is an iPad, but smaller, and that it can run all of the same apps as the bigger iPad. Its a subtle shot at the limited nature of the Fires, and the limited tablet app selection on Android.
    Yes, but my point was that the apps rendered on the iPad Mini and the iPad both show the same processing speed; naturally, one might assume that the $330 has the same processing speed as the $600. Also, both screens seem to display the same level of sharpness. I understand that the screen images were virtual and pre-rendered, so maybe they should have taken these into consideration.

    Also, I can counter argue that displaying 1 or 2 apps does not demonstrate the scope of the app selection.

    I will concede to say, though, that the advertisements are highly ambiguous and unsound and consequently, may render any of our interpretations invalid.
    Last edited by TitaniumSky; November 20th, 2012 at 10:21 PM.

  17. #67
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    Re: Apple Is Really Overdoing It Now

    Quote Originally Posted by TitaniumSky View Post
    I can see your point... since NFC in phones is new, it does not have wide use yet, but it also depends on whether or not you are getting a 2 year contract, because with that, future technology, which has not been fully adopted yet, allows you to stay more up to date.
    Only sort of true. Phones out now won't be likely to get the software necessary to use it.

    Well, what exactly is a 'premium' tablet? Just because it is considered 'premium', does not invalidate it's unreasonable cost.
    Yes, the iPad Mini may have a faster processor, but the point of all this comparison was to demonstrate how overpriced the iPad Mini is. The 'budget' Android tablets perform, in some aspects close or better, than the iPad Mini, which regardless of labels like 'premium', says that the iPad Mini is overpriced.

    'Premium' Android tablets may perform worse than the iPad Mini, but since the cons of a 'budget' tablet are cancelled out by the cons of the iPad Mini, it is overpriced.
    The market determines it, and it doesn't have a problem with the price.

    Ultimately, it may be better to assign value based on perspective due to the gamut of available features in each tablet; what may be 'premium' to one may not be so for all.
    The Apple App store alone makes it premium. Google's is trash compared to it. (on tablets only)

    Yes, but my point was that the apps rendered on the iPad Mini and the iPad both show the same processing speed; naturally, one might assume that the $330 has the same processing speed as the $600. Also, both screens seem to display the same level of sharpness. I understand that the screen images were virtual and pre-rendered, so maybe they should have taken these into consideration.
    This tells me you haven't played with a regular iPad and iPad mini. The big iPad has a much more powerful CPU, and it is definitely noticeable. The screens, similarly, are very different. The big iPad is a retina display and is very, very sharp. The Mini's screen is still very good, but it is nowhere near as crisp. There are also different use-cases for each. But, the big reason for how they are advertising it is that they want to reinforce that its an iPad, just smaller.

    Also, I can counter argue that displaying 1 or 2 apps does not demonstrate the scope of the app selection.
    The Android ecosystem is a barren wasteland for tablet apps. Even when there are tablet specific apps, they are usually of much poorer quality. Then, you have tablets like the Fire, which have heavily curated app stores with an even more limited selection. So its not hard to see why Apple wants to call out the availability of apps (or the lack of that) on Android.

  18. #68
    Keeland
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    Re: Apple Is Really Overdoing It Now

    I'm struck by the irony.

    For decades — literally — the PC side, especially Microsoft, derided Apple for the lack of Mac apps, with Apple fans arguing how many word apps, spreadsheet apps and whatever else apps does anyone need, as Steve Jobs himself did, when many Mac apps were poorly ported and Windows-ugly crash-prone crap.

    Now the shoes have switched feet, with even Android/RIM (R.I.P.)/Microsoft/Whomever Else developers and potential developers hanging back because of the non-Apple fracturing of the market and non-market.

    Apple's calling out of the dearth of Android apps must be sweet, and it's quite funny.

  19. #69

    Re: Apple Is Really Overdoing It Now

    I don't think you are perusing my posts very well. You don't seem to be getting the main gist of some of my posts. You seem to be focused on your opinion and reading just a few lines instead of understanding the implications of my concise and concrete arguments.

    You argue against opinions or points which I have not made, as if expecting responses from an Android zealot.

    Quote Originally Posted by JB3 View Post
    This tells me you haven't played with a regular iPad and iPad mini. The big iPad has a much more powerful CPU, and it is definitely noticeable. The screens, similarly, are very different. The big iPad is a retina display and is very, very sharp. The Mini's screen is still very good, but it is nowhere near as crisp. There are also different use-cases for each. But, the big reason for how they are advertising it is that they want to reinforce that its an iPad, just smaller.
    I know that the big iPad is more powerful than the smaller one... that was the whole POINT of my post, that the ad is misleading people into believing that actions are processed at the same speed with the same sharpness of resolution. I know that "they want to reinforce that its an iPad"(minus size differences), which leads to my point that they are discouraging the sale of the larger iPad.

    Quote Originally Posted by JB3 View Post
    The market determines it, and it doesn't have a problem with the price.
    If the market had no problems with the price, then there would be no complaints, and critics are not exactly happy. I have already posted a review previously as proof.

    Quote Originally Posted by JB3 View Post
    The Apple App store alone makes it premium. Google's is trash compared to it. (on tablets only)
    And as I explained, this is solely YOUR opinion on value. You may value the App store, but Android users may value the ability to customize their phones with widgets and live wallpapers. My point was that what may be valuable to you may not be so for others. (and yes I know about jail breaking, but this is since we are considering the average smartphone user, because you mentioned that software for NFC would not be available in the future, this is ONLY true for an average smartphone user, software mods are typically available for Android users from xda-developers, if other phones get them first)

    Quote Originally Posted by JB3 View Post
    The Android ecosystem is a barren wasteland for tablet apps. Even when there are tablet specific apps, they are usually of much poorer quality. Then, you have tablets like the Fire, which have heavily curated app stores with an even more limited selection. So its not hard to see why Apple wants to call out the availability of apps (or the lack of that) on Android.
    Again, the point of my post was not to question Apple's motives, nor did I provide an opinion on the availability of apps on either platform.

    I had said that the ad itself is ineffective in its demonstration, THAT was my point.

  20. #70
    Quality posting since 2K7 Nishin's Avatar
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    Re: Apple Is Really Overdoing It Now

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Cheap shot but funny


  21. #71
    JUB Addict justdra's Avatar
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    Re: Apple Is Really Overdoing It Now

    Walmart is advertising iPhone 5 for 127 with 2yr contract. Thats a big cut from 199. I think all their Apple products are on sale.
    He got that thickness, the kind that make you get up makin' biscuits with breakfast, so gone - Jill Scott - So Gone

  22. #72
    JUB Addict andysayshi's Avatar
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    Re: Apple Is Really Overdoing It Now

    I was at a client Christmas party the other night, where there were about 25 people under 25 years of age. We did a quick survey - not one of them owned an iPhone. All used Samsung, except for a couple of other Android variants and one Windows device. Their was a general attitude from them that iPhones were just too closed and overrated.

    I think it's quite telling. Apple will continue to do great business with the iPhone, but the market has really tipped. Now that their competition can offer equal or better specs and features, I see their market share dropping quite a bit - unless they really zap the competition with some new innovation nobody has seen coming.

  23. #73
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    Re: Apple Is Really Overdoing It Now

    Quote Originally Posted by andysayshi View Post
    I was at a client Christmas party the other night, where there were about 25 people under 25 years of age. We did a quick survey - not one of them owned an iPhone. All used Samsung, except for a couple of other Android variants and one Windows device. Their was a general attitude from them that iPhones were just too closed and overrated.

    I think it's quite telling. Apple will continue to do great business with the iPhone, but the market has really tipped. Now that their competition can offer equal or better specs and features, I see their market share dropping quite a bit - unless they really zap the competition with some new innovation nobody has seen coming.
    Apple has never cared about marketshare. As long as they're making 70% of the profits for the entire cell-phone market they're fine with where they are. Apple's overall marketshare has actually increased in recent months, by the way.

    Also, Samsung only recently overtook Apple in smartphone market share. The sole reason why is because they offer at least a dozen models, while Apple offers three. All of the other Android makers are struggling mightily, with all losing money and marketshare fast.

  24. #74
    The Mother of Loki Laufey's Avatar
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    Re: Apple Is Really Overdoing It Now

    Samsung makes the best smart phones it's that simple.

  25. #75
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    Re: Apple Is Really Overdoing It Now

    Quote Originally Posted by Laufey View Post
    Samsung makes the best smart phones it's that simple.
    Debatable. Their physical quality is at the back of the pack.

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