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  1. #201

    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    This is a very interesting talk that I am listening to:
    Nonlocal Consciousness: An Explanatory Model for the Near-Death Experience -

  2. #202

    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    at about 59:00 in his conclusive remarks (think they are anyway cause theres still a bit to go), I very disagree when he falls in New Age 'you create your own reality' thinking. This is where you get blamed if you are oppressed, or are depressed etc, because you are not being subjectivly positive enough. This is wrong. It blames people if they naturally feel psychologically bad --which often happens because of outside influences, family, culture etc--or have a physical disease, and so it is implied it is your fault if you have cancer because of your 'subjective thoughts'. In REALITY there are people VERY oppressed by outside forces and they have the fucking right to resent and hate these forces, and feel oppressed. There is no point patronizingly chanting 'alll is oneeee' in such situations.

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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    I haven't listened that yet,but fasting article was good. I stopped fasting.. Not enough willpower,or wrong motivation,perhaps.
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  4. #204
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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrizze View Post
    I haven't listened that yet,but fasting article was good. I stopped fasting.. Not enough willpower,or wrong motivation,perhaps.
    How many days did you make it? and have you ever tried before?

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    About my stance on medicalization,and mind diseases, I believe,that they do invent some of them...you know,I have my copy of DSM - IV in my bookself.many personality disorders are really personality traits,or bad habits,etc..But not all of them.about my mother, I have witnessed five times in my life,what happened,when she stopped,or last time,some stupid GP stopped her meds, and those were five times too much,I can tell you.She lost all contact to reality,thought herself to be god,or jesus,and was genuinely danger to herself.Well,those meds ultimately killed her,but if we have lived 100yrs ago, she would have been in mental institution,since age 17,probably strapped into bed.so,those meds allowed her to live normal life almost 40yrs.without them,I would not be here to write this.
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  6. #206
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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    How many days did you make it? and have you ever tried before?
    Three, and I have tried before.I know,that I would survive,if there would be situation,when food in simply not available... But practically surrounded by it,that's too much.

    By the way,that song up there,who were "the squares"?
    Last edited by Chrizze; September 28th, 2012 at 01:38 PM.
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  7. #207
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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Quote Originally Posted by JohannBessler View Post
    @Chrizze:

    Ludolfo and I don't agree on a lot, but I do agree with him on one thing: Switch to tea.

    Studies have conclusively shown that coffee is a strong cortisol agonist. In layman's terms, it causes anxiety and panic attacks in high doses, in both short-term use or long-term use.

    Switch to tea.
    Definitely switch to tea -- or at the very least to hot cocoa (trivia: a recent study where two groups of people at the same things except one got fruit candies and the other extra dark chocolate with the same calories showed that those eating chocolate had a much lower gain of weight than the fruit candy eaters).

    I must have missed how much coffee you drink; I'll just say this: if it's more than (the equivalent of) four cups a day, don't stop all at once -- it can throw you into apathy and depression.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrizze View Post
    Three, and I have tried before.I know,that I would survive,if there would be situation,when food in simply not available... But practically surrounded by it,that's too much.

    By the way,that song up there,who were "the squares"?
    I don't know which song you mean. But in classic 60s terms, the squares are the people who totally conform and are under the thumb of The Man.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    That song "jesus was a capricorn" only song I have posted in page 5.of this thread.Surely you have missed how much I drink coffee,because I don't drink coffee. only occasionally,well done latte,or cafe au lait,in restaurant.and that's something like 5 times a year.
    Last edited by Chrizze; September 28th, 2012 at 02:39 PM.
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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Is it possible,that assumption,that I drink coffee had come from the fact,that some of you know,that finland has biggest coffee consumption per capita.it was something like 3%,and our people constitutes only 0,001%.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ion_per_capita

    12kg/per Capita.1st rank.
    Last edited by Chrizze; September 28th, 2012 at 02:53 PM.
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  11. #211

    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrizze View Post
    About my stance on medicalization,and mind diseases, I believe,that they do invent some of them...you know,I have my copy of DSM - IV in my bookself.many personality disorders are really personality traits,or bad habits,etc..But not all of them.about my mother, I have witnessed five times in my life,what happened,when she stopped,or last time,some stupid GP stopped her meds, and those were five times too much,I can tell you.She lost all contact to reality,thought herself to be god,or jesus,and was genuinely danger to herself.Well,those meds ultimately killed her,but if we have lived 100yrs ago, she would have been in mental institution,since age 17,probably strapped into bed.so,those meds allowed her to live normal life almost 40yrs.without them,I would not be here to write this.
    Yes you are quite right about how many years ago she would have been tortured for being so-called 'mentally ill'--this is the awful history of psychiatry. Thomas Szasz really goes into this history in his book The Manufacture of Madness: A Comparative Study of the Inquisition and the Mental Health Movement . And a famous quote from the book goes "The Inquisition is to heresy as Psychiatry is to mental illness." (checkout this article)

    But what this says to me is not 'oh look at the progress', but rather the continuation of ignorance and abuse of people. That whereas before they would (and still do) would use lobotomy to 'remove the disease from the brain', now they have the lobotomy in a pill!
    Whilst I tell you this I am very sensitive to the fact that if you understand and agree with this you will feel very sad that your mum was not in a more intelligent culture. But I am telling you this because I don't want you to fall into this--into their toxic suppressants. If you read John Weir Perry, he is provided a safe caring place for people with first eopsode 'schizophrenia' and these people also experienced these states of mind, but Perry stresses that these psychological and spiritual experiences are self healing processes that should not be suppressed but allowed full expression. But what this culture does is--through fear of these experiences--it wants to suppress them with (in the past various tortures) pills and forced incarceration, and absolutely no empathic interest and care for what the individual is experiencing, because doing so is believed to be indulging their 'mental illness'.
    I just ask you to look at the world we are living in and compare with how they treat people who have these experiences. They do now want to see us as people with depths of feelings. To the prevailing mindset we are slave robots just fit to produce and consume. ANYONE with any real intelligence and love can only go mad in such a set up as this!

  12. #212
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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Ludolfo, if any other organ can get ill, why would the brain get exempt from illness?

  13. #213
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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    I know,as I said earlier,that our whole society is not made for us,so to speak.have you read the book "human zoo"? By Desmond Morris? I recommend all his books,this is the theme in all of them.I cannot deny,that perhaps in different culture,and way of caring,my mother wouldn't ever have these problems...who knows.But this was all we got.Surely that is better,compared to that,what was available 100yrs ago,don't you agree?
    Last edited by Chrizze; September 28th, 2012 at 04:05 PM.
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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    That (checkout this article was good), but I sensed some "america-centered" points of views there..for example,Issue of homelessness,we don't have it here,not in a way in U.S no-one lives or sleeps on the streets,or carry around all his belongins in shopping cart here.Remember,we are on the latitude of Anchorage.
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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    By the way,I find that these discussions has been very therapeutic to me,and They had made me to think these issues from various points of views.I am very grateful to all of you,around the globe,who had took their time,and contributed this thread.Let's keep truckin'
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  16. #216

    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrizze View Post
    I know,as I said earlier,that our whole society is not made for us,so to speak.have you read the book "human zoo"? By Desmond Morris? I recommend all his books,this is the theme in all of them.I cannot deny,that perhaps in different culture,and way of caring,my mother wouldn't ever have these problems...who knows.But this was all we got.Surely that is better,compared to that,what was available 100yrs ago,don't you agree?
    No I haven't read it, but am knowing of the author. he used to be on our TV a lot when I was a kid.
    Is the treatment your mum received better than what she would have received in earlier times? Yes, but....I see that the mental illness myth maintains its oppression of consciousness, feelings, soul, and this affects not only those right on the frontline, but all of us. I see it like a straightjacket on all people, because it makes us fear of being ourselves and how we really feel on so many levels. We feel we HAVE to look up to their authority, and as a result the very Earth is being destroyed.
    I see the mental illness myth connected with their war on drugs, which includes psychedelics. It is all interconnected. So if I were to not deeply criticize psychiatry because it is not barbarically torturing people--though they didn't see it like that, nor did many of the people who accepted it--then it means I accept their suppression of peoples spirit. And remember that ECT is just as barbaric if not more so than the old 'spinning chair', etc, and the drugs they have given/forced people as 'treatment' have greatly harmed their mindbodies---actually given them real diseases.
    But you are right Chrizze. When we haven't GOT access to people willing to support others going through spiritual crisis, or visionary experiences, in a loving caring way, what can we do? We often have no other recourse but to go to orthodox psychiatry. Any alternative are also suppressed by the might of the pharmaceutical industry. This is how Soteria House and Diabasis had their funding stopped! But this does not mean though that we have to accept this state of affairs does it? We still must, I must continue learning about this, and bring it to peoples attention, because many assume that the model being imposed on us by the State is the only one that is 'scientifically' good.
    Last edited by ludolfo; September 29th, 2012 at 01:29 AM.

  17. #217

    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrizze View Post
    That (checkout this article was good), but I sensed some "america-centered" points of views there..for example,Issue of homelessness,we don't have it here,not in a way in U.S no-one lives or sleeps on the streets,or carry around all his belongins in shopping cart here.Remember,we are on the latitude of Anchorage.
    This really interests me Chrizze. I HATE that 'homelessness' exists. I put it in commas because I know that many people now put this term into a conceptual category which blinds them. What I mean is that they will look at people who have no shelter, especially those on the street as 'homeless' and not as actual human beings---get me? It creates a barrier to what is actually going on--that real people are having to live on the street and/or in horrible hostels where there is no privacy, respect, and are often dangerous--which is why people will CHOOSE to sleep out in the street.
    The only time our media will ever usually talk about this subject is when they are at their maudlin best--at Christmas! We very rarely ever hear about other countries experience. So I would love to really understand the situation there Chrizze. Are you really telling me there exists no homeless people there? So what happens if a person loses their job, or welfare, or cannot pay rent, or has their home repossessed?

  18. #218

    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrizze View Post
    By the way,I find that these discussions has been very therapeutic to me,and They had made me to think these issues from various points of views.I am very grateful to all of you,around the globe,who had took their time,and contributed this thread.Let's keep truckin'
    I am so glad! They are healing for me also. You are very interesting to talk with, and am very glad to have met you.

  19. #219
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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Quote Originally Posted by ludolfo View Post
    This really interests me Chrizze. I HATE that 'homelessness' exists. I put it in commas because I know that many people now put this term into a conceptual category which blinds them. What I mean is that they will look at people who have no shelter, especially those on the street as 'homeless' and not as actual human beings---get me? It creates a barrier to what is actually going on--that real people are having to live on the street and/or in horrible hostels where there is no privacy, respect, and are often dangerous--which is why people will CHOOSE to sleep out in the street.
    The only time our media will ever usually talk about this subject is when they are at their maudlin best--at Christmas! We very rarely ever hear about other countries experience. So I would love to really understand the situation there Chrizze. Are you really telling me there exists no homeless people there? So what happens if a person loses their job, or welfare, or cannot pay rent, or has their home repossessed?
    We have even now,very good welfare state.this is my own idea,what it might be called in english,.we have so called "social welfare offices" in every city,county,and even smaller places...they will assign a house,and money,so that you can live.homelessnes occurs mainly in Helsinki,the capital city,..because everyone want to be there,if possible.for example,my friend got a very good job many years ago,when he moved to Helsinki,but he had to live in one of is friends house,because it is hard to find house in there.he lived three months that way,before he found suitable apartment,and saved money.even those people who always sit in the bench in the park,sipping their beer,or vodka...they do have homes.If you really mess your things up,like drinking all money given by welfare office,even they will live on their friends apartment,or something... It is not possible to be a homeless in american way in finland.

    For example,I am very much indebted,..something ,like 20000€,but I am "untouchable",because I am in disability pension,and there is law,that sets a certain level income,that you must have,before you money can be taken to pay your unpaid debts.my income will never cross that level.I admit,that I misuse our system to my benefit.
    Last edited by Chrizze; September 29th, 2012 at 04:02 AM.
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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    By the way,there is no "repomen",in finland either.
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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Do you heard that thing,that every person in world is six handshakes away,from anyone? ....my best friend,he is a nephew of former archbishop of canterbury,George Carey.well..I have shaken my friends hand,and he has shaked the hand of archbishop...who have shaken a hand of Her Majesty,The Queen Elizabeth II..,,and she has shaken many hands.so,I am five handshakes away,for example many presidents or different countries.
    Last edited by Chrizze; September 29th, 2012 at 05:21 AM.
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  22. #222

    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrizze View Post
    We have even now,very good welfare state.this is my own idea,what it might be called in english,.we have so called "social welfare offices" in every city,county,and even smaller places...they will assign a house,and money,so that you can live.homelessnes occurs mainly in Helsinki,the capital city,..because everyone want to be there,if possible.for example,my friend got a very good job many years ago,when he moved to Helsinki,but he had to live in one of is friends house,because it is hard to find house in there.he lived three months that way,before he found suitable apartment,and saved money.even those people who always sit in the bench in the park,sipping their beer,or vodka...they do have homes.If you really mess your things up,like drinking all money given by welfare office,even they will live on their friends apartment,or something... It is not possible to be a homeless in american way in finland.

    For example,I am very much indebted,..something ,like 20000€,but I am "untouchable",because I am in disability pension,and there is law,that sets a certain level income,that you must have,before you money can be taken to pay your unpaid debts.my income will never cross that level.I admit,that I misuse our system to my benefit.
    That is great to know! I am SO ashamed that even now in 21st century there are people living on streets, and/or having to be humiliated in hostels. Also I have met people who have been attacked when sleeping on the street. TERRIBLE things. For example, I read that a young man had the end of his nose bitten off!! It was by these men who were in suits who attacked him, and it said this affected him very badly psychologically as well as physically as it would. I was later doing volunteer work at a Needle exchange, and I saw him in the canteen there. I felt so sad for him. He was a big guy, but it doesn't matter, people are very vulnerable---cold, tired. I hope the men who did this to them suffer for what they did. I have seen Youtube videos where youths have savagely attacked people sleeping outside with baseball bats etc and filming it. How BRAVE!! It brings out the evil in me what I would like to happen to them!!! It is like they are the stormtoopers of this horrible mean soulless society. They are all the time drilled about how good you are if your successful, and rich, and absolute crap if poor and weak. And they internalize this toxic shit and become sadists. it makes them feel important to harm those they deem less than their sorry selves. They are lost souls for sure.
    Last edited by ludolfo; September 29th, 2012 at 10:42 AM.

  23. #223

    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrizze View Post
    Do you heard that thing,that every person in world is six handshakes away,from anyone? ....my best friend,he is a nephew of former archbishop of canterbury,George Carey.well..I have shaken my friends hand,and he has shaked the hand of archbishop...who have shaken a hand of Her Majesty,The Queen Elizabeth II..,,and she has shaken many hands.so,I am five handshakes away,for example many presidents or different countries.
    LOL. yes I have heard of that. For myself---well, when I was 17 I was into the Hare Krishna cult, and one summer I went to the big mansion that one of The Beatles, George Harrison had given the movement, because I knew the spiritual master was gonna be there. When there there were lots of people, and I was on the stairs and George Harrison came up the stairs to meet the master, and on the way we met and he shook my hand. Now...IMAGINE how many famous hands that hand shook haha

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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Perhaps that is the reason,that my best friend is nephew of archbishop,that I am interested about history of The Great Britain.I also feel,that I am a Bit of "royalist" I personally like Her Majesty,Queen Elilzabeth II. I Think,that she is the last "real royal person" I have read her official biography.Sir Winston Churchill,to me, is greatest statesman ever lived.I have read his biographies too...by the way,this friend of mine,..we were been friends some two years,before he mentioned to me,that "my uncle is the archbishop of canterbury." His mother is finnish,who went to work as nurse to england,in 60's...and they moved to finland in 1975.my friend is born in 1966. So,he is completely bilingual..he talks finnish with his sister,and mother,and english with his father.I also have two other friends,with similar backgrouns..and that american woman,she had decided to stay in finland..she is having a baby on october.we talk english only..but she is studying,and learning finnish,and and I have helped her in that.I think,that it is great asset to me,to have such friends.This american friend,she is bilingual too..english,and spanish...her father is american,and mother is from dominican republic.I told,"take care,that your child will be threelingual,english,and spanish is learned from home.and finnish,by living here " she said,that is her general Idea.
    Last edited by Chrizze; September 29th, 2012 at 11:30 AM.
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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    These discussions here,they have been more therapeutic to me,than any sesssion I had have I had have in the past,on real life
    I highly respect, you,ludolfo,johannBessler too,..and Kulindahr and I,I believe,are very much alike,I have read much of his discussions here,and I believe,that we share the same worldview.But as I said earlier,everyones opinions,who have contributed this thread,are duly noted.
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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Yes,you can count on it,that I have had ideas from all of you. ...that kind of things are very interesting to me...I had read,that they had an experiment,where different brain areas were stimulated,and they experienced "out of body eperiences"',and "near death experiences"
    What you think,is Erich Von Däniken con-artist,or does he have something to say? ....I have been read all of his books,when I was teenager,..they were very popular,and they were all translated to finnish at that time.
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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Chrizze, here's an article talking about that kind of experience:

    http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/7...singer_pr.html

    I find this area of study to be fascinating.

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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    You know,ludolfo,two best things in the world are British inventions...Five o'clock tea, and The United States of America.
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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    I believe firmly,that there is afterlife.I know it a priori.
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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    They can't put anyone into mental hospital,against their will,regardless of circumstances?? Without that law,my mother would have died long ago.last time,when that asshole doctor took away ALL my mothers medications...and she lost her mind in two weeks..believing,that she is jesus..giving all her money to some drunkard,.I was able to stop that money transfer,had to go to bank,and explain the situation.that law saved her life.there were ambulance,and police present,when I put her into hospital.
    Last edited by Chrizze; September 29th, 2012 at 06:59 PM.
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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Johan,I admire U.S.and I always will.I would like to live there.my home is full of U.S licence plates,flags,and all things,that will tell casual visitor,what is my stance in certain things.
    I do not necessarily admire what you do,or not do,but what you could be.I had read very much about "founding fathers" of america. First amendment,to me,is almost holy.and I also admire what you could be,one day.I didn't expect to see non-white person as a president of united states in my lifetime.that is really something.
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  32. #232

    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrizze View Post
    Perhaps that is the reason,that my best friend is nephew of an archbishop,that I am interested about history of [The] Great Britain. I also feel,that I am a bit of "royalist" I personally like Her Majesty,Queen Elizabeth II. I Think,that she is the last "real royal person". I have read her official biography. Sir Winston Churchill,to me, is greatest statesman who has ever lived.I have read his autobiography too...By the way,this friend of mine,..we were been friends some two years,before he mentioned to me,that "my uncle is the Archbishop of Canterbury." His mother is Finnish,who went to work as nurse to England,in the 60's...and they moved to Finland in 1975. My friend was born in 1966, so he is completely bilingual..he talks Finnish with his sister,and mother, and English with his father. I also have two other friends,with similar backgrounds..and that American woman, she had decided to stay in Finland..she is having a baby on October We talk English only..but she is studying,and learning Finnish,and and I have helped her in that. I think,that it is great asset to me,to have such friends.This American friend, she is bilingual too..english,and spanish...her father is American,and mother is from Dominican Republic. I told her,"take care,that your child will be threelingual,english,and spanish is learned from home. and finnish, by living here " she said,that is her general Idea.
    I wish I had learned other languages. I think I already told you that I like brazilian music, and have learned some tunes on guitar---well one lol, and would love to learn Portugese via singing the songs.

    Unlike you I do not like Royal family, and ll that stuff. I think it breeds a very unequal culture where families like theirs are looked up to, and we --the public--are supposed to be their 'subjects'. I also do not like people like Churchill or reeally ANY politicians. But we can still be friends lol

    when I put [] around a word it means to leave it out

  33. #233

    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrizze View Post
    These discussions here,they have been more therapeutic to me,than any sesssion I had have I had have in the past,on real life
    I highly respect, you,ludolfo,johannBessler too,..and Kulindahr and I,I believe,are very much alike,I have read much of his discussions here,and I believe,that we share the same worldview.But as I said earlier,everyones opinions,who have contributed this thread,are duly noted.
    I am SO pleased that you feel this Chrizze. I sense that you are finding renewed energy and spirit which is beautiful, and I am so glad that we all have helped each other here and helping each other in our own ways here

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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Yes,gentlemen can always agree to disagree. Yes,it is helping to have different views,around the world.
    Last edited by Chrizze; September 30th, 2012 at 05:57 AM.
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  35. #235

    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Quote Originally Posted by JohannBessler View Post
    @Ludolfo:

    I have some information that you might find interesting, too.

    I took a very brief look at your video, so I know the topic, but I haven't watched the whole thing yet because I haven't had enough time. But I do plan to.

    With that in mind, I want to let you know that I have experimented around with various states of consciousness, and have developed a theory. I believe--at this time--that all of those phenomena--astral projection, UFO abduction experiences, and NDEs,--are intrasomal, that is, experienced inside the physical brain, during certain stages of sleep. I say this because I have direct experience with them.

    Then again, I could be wrong. Maybe the body and the self DO separate. If so, my views on the afterlife, etc., would change forever. I want to explore those altered states of consciousness further, so I can make up my own mind.

    I realize it's not good form to beat one's own drum,but if you want to read more, I wrote about this in great detail in my blog. You can find them under the categories about UFOs.

    Yes, I will be interested to look at your blog. My own views are more agnostic, in regards the real meaning of that term of not coming to a conclusion, but investigating, though I do lean towards ideas....lol For example, I have personally experienced a very powerful OBE (I have had two but the latter one was extraordinary in that I interacted with '4' other beings. I actually did also in the first one too. With one being), and as far as I am aware I seemed outside the body, but you know------it is very easy to ask questions whilst being unconscious of the limitations of the concepts and language you ask them with. Ie., when we say 'inside'--inside implies 'outside'. Also science does not know what either 'matter' is nor 'consciousness'. Also we have an experience of space and time which these deeper states seem to go 'beyond' and this correlates with science---such as quantum physics and Einstein's 'spacetime'. I know from psychedelic experience how space and time are NOT what I usually experience in day to day life, but even in ordinary life time is very weird. Depending on how into something you are it flies past, but boredom and a minute can take ages lol
    So to say experience is 'all in the brain' is also called intrapsychic:
    “One possible definition of shamanism is that it is the disciplined approach to what has been variously called "non-ordinary reality", "the sacred", "the mystery", "the supernatural", "the inner world(s)", or "the otherworld". Psychologically speaking, one could say these expressions refer to realms of consciousness that lie outside the boundaries of our usual and ordinary perception. The depth psychologies derived from psychoanalysis refer to such normally inaccessible realms as "the unconscious", or "the collective unconscious". This would, however, be too limiting a definition for shamanism, if "unconscious" is taken to refer to something within the individual, i.e. intrapsychic. Shamanic practice involves the exploration not only of unknown aspects of our own psyche, but also the unknown aspects of the world around us, - the external as well as internal mysteries. http://www.greenearthfound.org/geo/shamanism.html

  36. #236

    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrizze View Post
    I believe firmly,that there is afterlife.I know it a priori.
    Forgive me Chrizze if you already have shared about this experience before and I have forgotten. Could you then either remind me, or share the experience you had please?

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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Well,I haven't had the experience about it.I just know it.

    The terms a priori ("from the earlier") and a posteriori ("from the later") are used in philosophy (epistemology) to distinguish two types of knowledge, justifications or arguments. A priori knowledge or justification is independent of experience (for example "All bachelors are unmarried"); a posteriori knowledge or justification is dependent on experience or empirical evidence (for example "Some bachelors are very happy"). A posteriori justification makes reference to experience; but the issue concerns how one knows the proposition or claim in question—what justifies or grounds one's belief in it. Galen Strawson wrote that an a priori argument is one in which "you can see that it is true just lying on your couch. You don't have to get up off your couch and go outside and examine the way things are in the physical world. You don't have to do any science." There are many points of view on these two types of assertions, and their relationship is one of the oldest problems in modern philosophy.


    - Wikipedia.
    Last edited by Chrizze; September 30th, 2012 at 08:25 AM.
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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Quote Originally Posted by JohannBessler View Post
    Chrizze,they will not incarcerate a mentally ill patient unless

    *they are a danger to themselves (suicidal) or
    *they are a danger to others (the criminally insane)

    That's is exactly,as it is in our law,that could be quotation from it.
    Why my mother wouldn't have care she needed?
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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    But how they can release someone like that? That person is in condition,when he/she is incapacitated to make decisions.what is real reason behind those laws? Saving money?
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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    So,this is what will happen?

    If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks…will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered…. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs. – Thomas Jefferson in the debate over the Re-charter of the Bank Bill (1809).
    Waking up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered?
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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrizze View Post
    But how they can release someone like that? That person is in condition,when he/she is incapacitated to make decisions.what is real reason behind those laws? Saving money?
    Philosophical limitation. Sometimes it shows greater regard for the dignity and humanity of a struggling person to ignore their free will, but American law doesn't recognise this. Since US law is based not only on the pragmatic benefits of freedom, but also the idea of freedom as a myth or totem, this can't be challenged in public discourse. It results in inhumane liberties for people at risk due to illness.

    To change the law is self-evident, but it would be opposed by "low-information voters" - the shockingly ignorant masses who have little education or awareness of even their own political system, and who thus help to perpetuate it. They would riot in the streets claiming that communism is coming and Barack Obama is trying to take their guns.

    Or at least that is my analysis of the States from Canada, where we have robust liberty, but not extreme, fetishized liberty. And public health care, which though inadequate, is at least of some service to our citizens.

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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Got damn,you put man on the moon! I believe,that one day things are as they should be,in the U.S I will never lost hope about that.

    To Bankside: I probably know more about your political system,than alarming numbers of average americans.
    Last edited by Chrizze; September 30th, 2012 at 01:23 PM.
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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Well,what kind of forum is it? When I register to forums,I want,that will use frequently.not just to meet one person,and leave.

    By the way,have you noticed,that I do highly appreciate your country?
    I am a patriot,how are you?
    Last edited by Chrizze; October 1st, 2012 at 12:26 AM.
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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Yes,I honor your country,because of the gread wisdom of founding fathers,that all what your country is established on.and what you have done,won WWII,and put man on the moon.we had fought,first,most bloodiest civil war in european history,britain,and other allies send an ultimatum,to stop,or they would intervene.even today,everyone knows,whos side who was.but the,when we had two wars against soviet union,that made us one nation again.you know,Finland is the only country in any war,who brought all fallen soldiers back to their hometowns.In WWII.There is separated cemeteries,on every town,village,or any place,where the person in question lived.I remember,when I went to school,when I was a child,there was a wall,made from stone,where was the names of those,who once were at that school,and had been fallen in war.


    I check that link,when I have time. By the way,that university REM adjusting thing,..I calculated,that it would take six months to complete?
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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    How is it possible not to pay taxes? In here,the employer takes taxes from your salary directly,so you can't avoid, at least, income tax.yes,I know,big country,big problems,I am well aware about these,I read CNN more,than my own countrys news.and about dozen more news agencies,to have different points of view.Your country has capability to fix your problems at snap of a finger,if there is political will,and most importantly,you must stop thinking,that any suggestion to improve something,is "communism".Communism is dead,and buried,and it never even existed.
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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Quote Originally Posted by JohannBessler View Post
    Chrizze, if you don't feel comfortable speaking to her directly, I would be happy to post the original URL for you so that you can read her account for yourself.

    You will want to scroll down to post #24, and follow the discussion from there:

    http://trypolyphasic.com/forum/topic...-on-polysleep/
    I checked it fast,but I will check it better.which one of the nick's she is?
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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Yes university of freiburg.my arithmetic could be wrong.. even though,I am very interested about math.but things like these:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...in_mathematics
    You know,once one student from Einsten,what is standard gravity? He did not remember..He said: I don't store such things in my mind,that I can check from every mathbook.
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  49. #249

    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Quote Originally Posted by JohannBessler View Post
    Very interesting! So you've had an OBE.....

    If I might digress for a moment, one thing that irritates me most about science and scientists--including the ones in the link Bankside gave us--is that they work from the a priori "knowledge" that these experiences lack verisimilitude, and are intrasomal. I believe that approach to be unfair, and paradoxically enough, unscientific, because after all,some of the experiences might be quite genuine. If they are, then these scientists have written off an entire body of knowledge through their own skepticism.

    To return to the topic, it might interest you that a man named Dr. John Lilly decided to experiment with a drug called ketamine. When injected with a specific dose, subjects including himself experience full blown OBEs,which further begs the question--are these experiences intrasomal, extrasomal, or both?

    In his case, he (just like you) met with a group of "men" who called themselves the Pleides, if I recall correctly. A lengthy series of conversations with these "men" occurred over a period of months. There came a time that they began to put pressure on him to "join them". He actually gave the matter serious thought, but then finally he decided to "stay on the 'earth' plane", because after all he did have a life, a family, etc.

    Keep in mind that this is a man of science, not some Sylvia Browne. It does make you wonder, huh? All kinds of questions come to one. It makes you wonder about those "time slips", where people say they've gotten abducted by aliens, and then suddenly disappear.

    In my case, it makes me wonder if that voice I heard during my lucid dream was right--could I actually time travel by going through a "black hole in inner space"? Or would I walk around, utterly bonkers,thinking I had time-travelled back to 1940? Or would I simply wake up, marvelling over a fantastic dream?

    The possibilites seem endless.
    You should try it lol
    I am sure that materialists will really try and think that all experience happens in the brain. This is because they do not want to think that nature 'out there' may be intelligent. Their fundamental myth is that humans are flukes of consciousness in a blind unconscious nature. But they IMO are caught up in yet another dichotomy of dualistic thinking which in this instance divides 'inner' from 'outer' and thus not realizing that reality is not one part of a dynamism versus another part, a dynamism is a whole system which is a constantly transforming process. So they try and fit any experiential anomaly into the confines of their reductive theories.

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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Quote Originally Posted by JohannBessler View Post
    She goes by the name "Ambimorph".

    Her first post on the ketogenic diet is post #24, and she speaks of it in greater length in her next post, which is on page 2 of that thread.

    BTW, If you want to know the exact data from the University of Freiburg study, I remember exactly where I read it. It was detailed in a book called Biological Psychology, a book I read in 2004. Copies of the book can be found for purchase online, if you're interested.
    That university data,is it not in the internet anywhere? It's too narrow issue,as book to buy to my economy,I believe.I only buy books that has use for years,like different kind od reference books..or some classsics,that you came back for regularly...last buy was "merck's index" which contains data about all chemicals,that are in human use currently.
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