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  1. #151

    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    seen Bladerunner, A Scanner Darkley. Both great films.I loved seeing the film The Day of the Triffids, and actually that film is eerily similar to what is going on today.

  2. #152
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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrizze View Post
    Well,your question was short also. ...And it was The question I am trying to find answers to right now too.Feelings about this are quite hard to put into words..I am not sure,If I feel at all.Perhaps I should hurt myself today,see if I do.You know the song?



    To The loveguys72: -emotions about these things will be on the surface for a long time..And of course,it can be discussed,if suicide is ever rational..But it is an option.A very few people can acknowledge even that much.
    I love and hate that song.

    You posted that on my birthday, a birthday I had to spend mostly at home because I'm caring for my mom. It's easy for that to feel like a trap, and easy for that feeling to turn into depression because who wants to feel guilty about feeling chained to his mom?

    I've tried suicide. Once the doctors didn't know why I wasn't dead. Another time all my careful preparations were undone when my roommate returned when he was supposed to be in class. The first time was because I thought I was so horrid that if I died, aliens on the other side of the galaxy would suddenly notice that life seemed brighter and more carefree, without knowing why. The second time was from pain I couldn't seem to escape.

    But as my doc then said, sometimes running does take you away from problems: if you take a trip, go and do something adventurous, especially something you've wanted to do, something that requires mental attention and promises fun, your mind's aim can be shifted.

    Some of my native American ancestors had a belief about wanting to die, that it meant it was time to go do something you thought worth dying for -- climb a challenging mountain, travel to aid people in trouble, whatever. You said money is no problem; maybe you should travel to a place where you can be of use while having time to just be yourself doing irrelevant things that look like fun. If your life seems empty, go somewhere else and see if you can try a different life.


    BTW, you're farther ahead in the game than I was: you're communicating about it.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  3. #153
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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrizze View Post
    That's right,exactly,pain in in nowhere,and everywhere.About philosophical side...this song have good lyrics too..

    The song really needs the movie to make sense of it -- and the movie needs the song, for that matter. They very much go together.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  4. #154
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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrizze View Post
    This song carries something similar,as "message".




    By the way,have you ever been noticed,that if you hold,or claim to hold,"high ideals" about life,to yourself,or others,Fate will soon put you into test.
    Whoa. That could have been the theme song for a fantasy role-playing game I wrote when I was in college: I called it SERVANT, the point being that no matter who you are or how how you think you've risen, you're still serving someone -- you're never free.

    But the other point is that to some extent you can choose who you're going to serve -- something I found made a great difference in how I feel about wanting to live. Most of my life I've felt that being a servant, not being free, defined me; but that's what makes the world a burden... and life.

    Someone wrote a rock song that said that in little acts of rebellion there is great freedom, or something to that effect. So one of the things I do is look for things that are actually "good deeds", that benefit someone, but break a rule.... then I feel more alive.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  5. #155
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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Quote Originally Posted by ludolfo View Post
    Glad yopur weather's is sunny too I am delighted that you know about the mental illness myth! I am VERY grateful that many years back, I 'happened' to find this book--the cover of it really attracted me, and it was called The Myth of Mental Illness, by Thomas Szasz. Who know--if I hadn't found that book, I could have been taken in by this myth and gone on their stupid drugs.
    My doc calls Szasz an idiot, but agrees he has one point, anyway: psychiatry is witch-doctory.

    Mine's a neurological psychologist, who takes issue with Szasz for not being scientific -- though he concedes Szasz wrote before the pictures of the radically different brain activity in patients with different mental illnesses, and the difference in brain chemistry, had been established. But any drug addict can testify that Szasz is wrong: changes in brain chemistry make you think and behave differently; they do cause different thoughts and actions. And that only stands to reason; our brains are a heap of chemical activity, so altering that chemistry is going to change it.

    I'm thankful I saw through Szasz when I read that book, or I would have just killed myself for certain.

    BTW, the only thing wrong with the psych drugs is insufficient understanding of the brain -- they're doing alchemy. My doc says that to be able to develop proper drugs for brain problems, we need a sentient computer that can fully model a human brain and then observe its own functioning down to every binary operation.....

    But the drugs they have aren't necessarily stupid: any drug that can calm the mind so people stop thinking they can step off a railing and catch the wisp of fog below to lower them safely to the river is a good thing. Though side effects... yeah, I was on one that affected my balance or whatever; I kept running into walls because I decided to turn and my body was slow to implement the decision (an interesting experience, though; I'd never been aware of any difference between deciding to take an action and my body doing it, and I got to observe it!).

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    To be careful and smart in accepting treatments is one thing, but to exclude the possibility completely seems to me like a diabetic refusing insulin or a person with a broken ankle refusing a cane.
    Absolutely.

    Quote Originally Posted by ludolfo View Post
    Well, the way I come at this is that I am very aware that this culture suppresses psychedelic healing. I see psychedelics as sacred medicine. Sure, you can party with them, but their ancient meaning is deeply sacred! And unlike the whole concept of modern medicine which treats us like a machine-body, psychedelics can affect body, mind and soul. I feel with you Chrizze from how you have shared with me how you feel that you feel a big part of you has gone, and this was caused by the loss of your mum. That maybe you would like to be with her? You feel utterly lost here--in this 'mean' world. Alone and lost?
    I think that with psychedelic experience taken with the intention for healing this deadness you feel that you could rekindle the lost part of self. You may think this an exotic idea, I don't know. But consider just how dramatic actual suicide is--it is LA FINALE. Babum--the end! So it may be wise then to at least consider some way of healing that is not as final and drastic as the complete ending of your life. I am VERY VERY interested in all about this so could offer you as much support and info as I can

    Some people may warn people off this way. often you will hear warnings that people with 'mental illness' should not take psychedelics. Hmmm, but IF a person is getting ready to why NOT give it a go. What is there to lose? Psychedelics inspire flux. it is very easy for us to set-up a mind-set which goes over and over the bad shit in our lives, and also the regrets etc etc, but what psychedelics can do is allow a seeing and feeling OUT of this set or box, and re-invigorate, enliven, re-energize.
    But if you were to choose to try this, great respect and care must be given to set and setting. To the intention. And I could give you suggestions, stuff to read to hopefully inspire you. other than that---energy comes with interest, passion in questioning and exploring. That is how it is for me anyway.
    So you affirm the use of mind-altering chemicals. But you can't do that without agreeing that the use of psych medications is fine -- they're just different chemicals.

    The problem is that the psychiatrists want to decide which chemicals are allowed and which aren't.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Quote Originally Posted by ludolfo View Post
    Where I differ from Alan is that he tended to be like an apologist for Eastern beliefs where as I really include them in my critical list. I dont know if 'apologist' is right term---he would kind of make them seem that they were benevolent when 'properly' understood. But I just calls a spade a spade (as is a saying from here to mean 'I calls what I see'). Take Buddhism---their goal is stated as wanting to escape the cycle of birth and death. I see that as part of the patriarchal myths which sees the body and nature as a trap. I also am against the whole Guru trip--of so-called holy men claimed to be 'enlightened' and more advanced from 'you'
    That's the "spiritual" take on Buddhism. Another way to put it is to "escape the cycle of care" -- that is, of worry, stress, etc. Buddhism is very much a course in what Jesus said in one short statement (the New Berkeley rendition): "Don't sweat tomorrow".

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  8. #158
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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrizze View Post
    How would you evaluate my english language skills? What mistakes I tend to make?what needs improvement,etc? I ask,because,I want to make things right.I know,that I would probably pass as an american any day (my american friend said so),but probably never as englishman,unless I move there,and live there 20yrs.
    I've noticed your English improving over the course of this thread.

    You write better than most American high school graduates, definitely.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  9. #159
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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrizze View Post
    One thing in Finnish,what is rampant in english,and rare in Finnish,are so called "phrasal verbs",when I got that idea,whole language suddenly opened to me,almost overnight.before that,Already had quite good vocabulary,but still wondered,why I not understand,for example,lyrics of some song.
    Phrasal verbs arise to a large extent from the refusal by a language to assemble compound verbs. For example, "eat out" is a phrase in English that in many languages would be combined into "eatout" -- which is more efficient because it's then possible to distinguish between two entirely different things: "eat out" is both a phrasal verb and a verbal phrase, meaning to eat somewhere other than at home or to eat from, e.g. "We ate out last night, at Kalko's", v. "We ate out of frisbees, because we didn't have plates."

    OTOH they can give flexibility, because some phrasal verbs let you put the verb's object in between, e.g. "I asked Dana out" as opposed to "I asked out Dana" (though some would say that "to ask out" isn't properly a phrasal verb, because "out" as functioning as an adverb).

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  10. #160
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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrizze View Post
    Are you aware about the Linguist called David Crystal? ..,His big,almost A2 sized 400- or so pages "bible" solely about grammar? it's very easy to read,but even one sentence in his books contais more information,than ten in any other. this is the book I have,and Talk about:

    The Cambridge Encyclopedia of the English Language - David Crystal

    I also have this book from him:

    The Cambridge Encyclopedia of Language - David Crystal


    Editing timeout again is readon for this almost a double post.why not even 20 minutes?
    Crystal is . . . supreme.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  11. #161
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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrizze View Post
    Yes,I have read about those studies as well.,..but what bothers me,is a kind of an "chicken and the egg" problem...are you depressed,because you serotonin levels are low? Or will your serotonin levels go down,when you get depressed? If first is true,then there maybe place for medication,but if it is latter,it would be,like taking some other drug to feel better..like,I occasionally have this habit with opiates..I don't try to prove either theory,since it is impossible to me,but they still can't measure what exactly happens on those synaptic clefts,where those drugs are suppose to take action..I don't think,that blood levels are accurately enough to tell things.It would perhaps clarify things,if it would be posdible to administer those neurotransmitter chemicals,serotonin,dopamine,or norepinephrine directly,but those chemicals don't cross blood-brain barrier.

    Depression Tests -- Blood Tests, Screening, and Other Tests

    They conduct tests to rule out OTHER possibilities,and diseases..not to find depression itself.At least that is what this article seems to tell me.
    There's a feedback loop, according to my doc.

    There's been research into skull patches for delivering drugs: they'd plant a time-release mechanism against your skull with tendrils into the brain; it would get loaded on a regular basis with a syringe through the scalp.
    The idea gives me the creeps....

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  12. #162
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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Quote Originally Posted by JohannBessler View Post
    <continued>

    Anyway, Chrizze, I thought I would at least tell you what the researchers at the University of Freiburg found.

    With the help of ECTs, they noticed that depressed patients have a different sleep architecture than "normal" people. Specifically, depressed patients go into REM right away, while "normal" patients take about an hour and a half to reach the first cycle of REM. This led them to conclude that depressed patients have a sleep architecture that is "out of sync".

    So they took a bunch of depressed patients and "resynced" their sleep architecture. Supposedly, they had over a 60% success rate. What's better is that the cure was "permanent", that is, the patients did not experience a relapse when tested some time later.

    Here's how it works.

    Take the normal time you go to bed. Let's assume it's 2 o'clock in the morning.

    For the first night, you will have to stay awake all night. Then, at 6'oclock that night, go to sleep. Stay in bed until 2'oclock the next morning. (You will note that you will be getting out of bed at the same time that you used to GO to bed).

    Continue on for a week. Do not deviate at all.

    Then, go to bed one hour later for a week. That is, go to bed at 7, then get up at 3.

    The next week, go to bed at 8. Get up at 4.

    Continue this progression until you get to the point where you go to bed when you want, then get up 8 hours later.

    What happens here is that your sleep architecture will re-sync itself. If you think of this in terms of a DSL modem, it'll make sense. A DSL modem, once in a while, needs to be re-synced in order to work properly.

    I draw this information directly from a textbook called Biological Psychology, if you're interested. Copies can be gotten for cheap over the Internet.

    I urge you to try this, if you don't want to take the drugs. Why not? The worst thing that'll happen is that it won't work--and then, you won't be any worse off than you are now, will you?

    Let me know if you want to hear the other idea. It hasn't been scientifically tested, but it might be easier, Anecdotal reports suggest that there is a dramatic improvement in mood.
    That's got things ion common with what I used to do: I'd go camping for two weeks, and if I felt like going to bed, I;d go to bed, and if I woke up feeling fresh, Id get up. I never thought to keep track of any patterns, but I do recall spending some nights awake all night, swimming or canoeing, while everyone else around was asleep, as well as sometimes having breakfast when others were having dinner, etc.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  13. #163
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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    From Kulindahr:

    Some of my native American ancestors had a belief about wanting to die, that it meant it was time to go do something you thought worth dying for -- climb a challenging mountain, travel to aid people in trouble, whatever. You said money is no problem; maybe you should travel to a place where you can be of use while having time to just be yourself doing irrelevant things that look like fun. If your life seems empty, go somewhere else and see if you can try a different life.
    That's very interesting,and makes sense,.. Where I said,that money is not the problem? To survive everyday,not,but otherwise,almost The biggest problems I have.Welcome to my thread,by the way.
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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrizze View Post
    From Kulindahr:

    That's very interesting,and makes sense,.. Where I said,that money is not the problem? To survive everyday,not,but otherwise,almost The biggest problems I have.Welcome to my thread,by the way.
    Tanks.

    There's a parallel tradition, for when someone finds out they're going to die and nothing can be done: go tackle heroic deeds until one kills you. The idea is to not surrender to something ignominious, but to something glorious.


    Sorry about the deluge of posts. I guess I was a bit manic last night!


    I didn't say much about the feedback loop: it isn't supposed to work that way. In a normal system, there are reactions to depression that are supposed to help stabilize; when something goes wrong, the feedback heads away from equilibrium instead of towards it.


    BTW, I have a service dog. When he's paying attention, he can derail an anxiety attack before it gets bad. I keep forgetting to ask my doc how the chemistry of that works. When he's doing what he's trained to (he isn't consistent, but I'm still better off with him than without), he can do in a couple of minutes what it takes the common medication twenty or thirty. There's got to be an actual chemical reaction going on there, if his hugs and kisses can take the place of and do a better job than a pill!

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Quote Originally Posted by JohannBessler View Post
    What's he do when he sees an attack coming?
    If I'm sitting, he comes and lays his head in my lap or on my arm. If I'm standing, he'll lean against me or lick my leg.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Kulindahr you should consider getting a service person to cover those duties when the dog is distracted.

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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    Kulindahr you should consider getting a service person to cover those duties when the dog is distracted.
    Like a cute 19-y.o. who could lean against me and lick my leg?

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  18. #168

    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Hey Chrizze hows things?

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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Nothing new...I am still alive.
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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop


  21. #171
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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    I have made a decision start fasting,and really sort these things in my mind.I can't wait for years,..this puzzle is prohibiting me from living.I only exist.And that's a hard work by in and on itself.Why fasting? Because I am a Person of faith too,and since my mind and soul is in torment,I will not allow my body to have any pleasures either.It will be a waterfast.It gives me a 50 - 90 days to sort things out for myself,depending on my physics.Or die in trying.
    Last edited by Chrizze; September 26th, 2012 at 11:05 AM.
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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Well,.I have lost it already,because of grief,I guess.I have been practically just been drinking tea,and smoking,after my mother's death.but my way of drinking tea is quite a powerdrink: 0.5 litres cup,half a tea,half a milk,and 50gr sugar.that's why I am not yet have been in "starvation mode" ever since,because that sugar has been enough to power my body..and some junk food here and there.
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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    No,we all don't survive a loss of a loved one.Friend of my friend,for example,when her mother died,took his car,and bottle of whiskey,and drove his car into the wall of rock,150mph.

    I have tried over seven antidepressants,from all classes,SSRI,SNRI,etc...the last one,and there is none left after this,is what I use now,Wellbutrin.it works at least by giving energy,it's modified amphetamine,after all.and first one,with no side-effects.Lyrica was also good,as replacement for benzos,because it works same way,but does not stop to work.(we have it accepted for Generalized Anxiety Disorder,here,in EU).but can't afford it,with wellbutrin,thanks to that bloodsucking Pfizer Company.

    I know I have depression,I was first time in mental hospital in 1997.but I have also personality disorders.You can't fix those.

    ECT is relatively rare treatment in here.probably,because it's "amazing" effects are temporary only,and therefore considered as emergency treatment to those with schizophrenia,or depression,with PSYCHOTIC properties in imminent danger of suicide.And you have to be inpatient.
    Thanks,but man with grey in his sides can't be young anymore.Of course I see doctor,I haven't a specialist doctor yet.appointment is 2.10
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  24. #174
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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrizze View Post
    I have made a decision start fasting,and really sort these things in my mind.I can't wait for years,..this puzzle is prohibiting me from living.I only exist.And that's a hard work by in and on itself.Why fasting? Because I am a Person of faith too,and since my mind and soul is in torment,I will not allow my body to have any pleasures either.It will be a waterfast.It gives me a 50 - 90 days to sort things out for myself,depending on my physics.Or die in trying.
    If you've never fasted before, start with a two-week fast. After that, eat simply -- minimal meat -- for about the same period, and then do your serious fast. Your body will have "learned" it can handle a fast, and the simple foods after will help clean/balance your system to prepare for the long haul.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrizze View Post
    Well,.I have lost it already,because of grief,I guess.I have been practically just been drinking tea,and smoking,after my mother's death.but my way of drinking tea is quite a powerdrink: 0.5 litres cup,half a tea,half a milk,and 50gr sugar.that's why I am not yet have been in "starvation mode" ever since,because that sugar has been enough to power my body..and some junk food here and there.
    This is a good idea. But change one thing: no processed sugar! Use honey instead, raw if you can get it. The honey has a number of benefits over processed sugar, one being that it contains substances that actually help reduce hunger, especially raw honey, and its also boosts your immune system (again, more so if it's raw).

    What I've done for tea when fasting is alternate between different kinds, e.g. green and black, and fruit teas. The fruit ones have their own antioxidants to complement those from the regular tea.

    After several week,s that milk may start doing unpleasant things to your system, though it may not (I've never had problems, but a couple of friends did). BTW, on the subject of dairy, if you like good cheese, a small slice of a good sharp (really sharp) cheddar will do good things for you.

    Many people think that paying attention to your body while fasting is pointless. However, keeping yourself healthy is a bonus, because you'll think more clearly.

    I found that spending two hours each morning listening to mellow instrumental music was a great help for focusing; it put my mind into a receptive/creative mode and left me with no distractions. The first few days it's actually hard: the idea is to let go of all thoughts and just "absorb" the music, its structure and balance.

    Lastly, I've never fasted past thirty-two days, so after that I have no advice.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    It will be tea,without sugar,or milk,..milk has too much energy,and carbohydrates,and will slow body's enter to ketosis (fat burning) state.which should take no more than 4 days,..after that,you are not hungry.when fats are burned,then body will start to break down lean muscle.which means,that you will die sooner,than later.body will alarm you between these two states.
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  26. #176
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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    I understand that fasting can cause the body's cellular machinery to enter "repair mode" but what I recall reading seemed to suggest only a day or two was necessary. Also, is this a fast in the same way as ramadan? Dawn till dusk, with meals after? Or days and weeks of only liquids?

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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    I understand that fasting can cause the body's cellular machinery to enter "repair mode" but what I recall reading seemed to suggest only a day or two was necessary. Also, is this a fast in the same way as ramadan? Dawn till dusk, with meals after? Or days and weeks of only liquids?
    Somewhere around the tenth to fifteenth day, perceptions and thinking become clearer. I can attest to that: during one fast, my Greek translation assignments became a breeze instead of heavy lifting, and philosophy material I'd been in misery over seemed to fall into their logical place.

    Some people, when fasting long-term, find they need less sleep. Another friend, who faster every Lent I knew him, got to sleeping only four hours a night; with the extra time, he devoured a mix of theology, history, and theo-historical fiction. He tested himself, too, and found he was reading a good 20-25% faster. Oh; he, too, found Greek suddenly easier.

    So it's long been a method to use when one is interested in self-examination. For some people, memories become clearer and things not normally remembered can be recalled.

    For such purposes, a balance is generally sought just as the point the body starts eating itself -- generally just a little butter on toast each morning is sufficient, unless you're like another friend who was a work-out freak, and insisted on doing his five-mile run every morning and two-mile swim every evening. He maintained that the exercise kept his body from eating itself; I'm not certain that worked. Oh -- for his fat ration, he had about a tablespoon of avocado mixed with half a one of butter and half a cubic centimeter of sharp cheddar cheese, all pureed together.

    One thing I remember is that music seemed almost other-worldly, or maybe transdimensional or something.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Quote Originally Posted by JohannBessler View Post
    Absolute silence for one day a week. That means no talking, no writing (even in here) no emails to other people, etc. It's supposed to do wonders for self-awareness, although I'm not sure how it's supposed to work.
    I've done that as a part of therapy when I was having sever anger problems. Interestingly, I was allowed to write, but only memories about things that had made me angry, and allowed to "speak", but only for yelling when buried anger cam from something I remembered. From my experience, it's best to find a place without visual complexity and few audio distractions -- I chose a gavel bar once, but the small pond between two high dunes I found later was better.

    With the low sensory input, it does work wonders for self-awareness, because it leaves you little else to attend to.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  29. #179

    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrizze View Post
    I have made a decision start fasting,and really sort these things in my mind.I can't wait for years,..this puzzle is prohibiting me from living.I only exist.And that's a hard work by in and on itself.Why fasting? Because I am a Person of faith too,and since my mind and soul is in torment,I will not allow my body to have any pleasures either.It will be a waterfast.It gives me a 50 - 90 days to sort things out for myself,depending on my physics.Or die in trying.
    Hey Chrizze, sorry for late reply, I have been away from computer for a bit. I am so sorry to hear of how you are suffering and wish I could put arm around you and comfort you. Like I have said before, I cannot imagine what your going through because personally the thought of losing my mum is a terrible dread.
    I cannot BELIEVE people here are recommending you have ECT!!! You must never have that fukin barbaric shit, it will definately damage your brain. I have planety of evidence for this, but can imagine you are not really in the mood to wade through it. But trust me. Also the pills they give now for "depression"--a;; they do is suppress feeling. That is it. I realize that people have the freedom to either take them or not depending on how desperate they are, and what is on offer. But do NOT be misled to believe their hype that they "treat depression". It is a lie.
    Why do you want to punish your body? That is the LAST thing you should be doing. YOu, who are your body too, are severely traumatized with grief, and you do not want to punish your body more, you want to LOVE and nourish your bodymindsoul. You cannot do that by harming it with lack of goo nutrition like you are doing with the cigarettes tea and sugar, nor going from that to a severe fast. It is like you think by punishing your self this will help, and it wont.

    Rather see that the tea in great amounts (and I am English so I know all about tea LOL) and ciggies is your way of trying to find comfort. That is a very English tradition, that when one is feeling bad someone will say "would you like a nice cup of tea?", and it is the warmth and 'pick-me-up' experience of drinking tea that brings a little comfort. Same with cigarettes, and the sugar gives the body a rush--blood sugar level---too. But it is all shortlasting, and not good in the long run. A big reason you will be feeling down is due to what you are putting into your body. Sugar for example is bad for you. It is an anti-nutrient. I was addicted to sugar as a kid and would have 6 spoons in a small cup and even MILK. But I will not touch the fukin evil stuff now. Only the occasional biscuit, where sugar is added. So I know what I am talkin about cause I have had to study this. My mum had a heart attack in the 80s and i HAD to learn about nutrition because the medical profession were useless!

    So please trust me. LOVE your body. Love yourself through your grief, and do not punish yourself. Please, start eating well. This will include incorporating greens, fruits...I just found this that may be of help Nutrition, Exercise, and Grief

    You need exercise. Even if you have to force it at first. Instead of having disipline for some fast that will harm you, use it to make sure you begin getting regular exercise. You will start feeling better, I promise. And also what I have done sometimes is when walking, you can express how your feel vocally, because your energy levels begin to rise and expressing emotions also adds to this.

    So please Chrizze, do not hate your body because your soul feels in torment. To me that makes no sense. Your body is you as much as your soul is and how better your body feels so will your soul.

  30. #180

    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Quote Originally Posted by JohannBessler View Post
    ^Ludolfo, I respect your opinion, but clinical depression can be fatal.

    If his depression is life-threatening, discounting the possibility of medical treatment seems downright foolish to me. It might cost a life.
    This is because you believe depression is a mental disease, and I do not. But this is not the place for me and you to debate about this. But I will defend Chrizze from your 'help', and leave him to make his own mind up.

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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    To Bankside: - only liquids,and no cigarettes,of course.

    To JohannBessler: well,to me,it seems,that I clearly stated the context.But I want to see also,how much my mind conditions are,because that industrial food we eat.with all those additives,etc...but that's really a sideline,or bonus.The last sentence is the key "or die in trying,because,if fasted long enough,that's what will happen.I want to know,do I really want it,when it starts to loom in horizon.

    To Kulindahr: -those feelings are also,what I have heard from other people,who had practised waterfast,doing very good.up to the point,when fat reserves are exhausted.

    To Ludolfo: - I have thought,that sometime in the distant future,they are showing pictures about refined sugar,like they do about Cocaine,etc,now.I used to use huge amounts of milk..in then years,or so ago.one litre for one hot meal.now only with tea.because,I noticed,that it masked the taste of the food,..now I don't drink anything with food.Just a tea after it.I know,Drug is a Drug,I have quite extensive history with illicit ones,..they give you good feeling,but don't cure the reason giving you bad one.Your brain really can't make distinction,whether you pour cocaine,heroin,or psych meds into it.they will adapt,you get tolerance,need more,have to switch to other,get withdrawals.There is no difference between licit and illicit,except just that.I don't try to punish my body,not at least in that way I see you understand,that I would.
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  32. #182

    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrizze View Post
    I have made a decision start fasting,and really sort these things in my mind.I can't wait for years,..this puzzle is prohibiting me from living.I only exist.And that's a hard work by in and on itself.Why fasting? Because I am a Person of faith too,and since my mind and soul is in torment,I will not allow my body to have any pleasures either.It will be a waterfast.It gives me a 50 - 90 days to sort things out for myself,depending on my physics.Or die in trying.
    Chrizze, I hope you don't mind, but I want to get an even closer feel of what you are saying here, so I well take bits of what you say so I may understand you better?

    I have made a decision start fasting,and really sort these things in my mind.I can't wait for years,..this puzzle is prohibiting me from living.
    I am hoping that all the advice being given here from really different viewpoints isn't adding to your distress? Be honest.

    You say 'I have made a decision' I respect that. it is YOUR decision.

    And then I come along and say 'no don't do that do this'.

    I am though only saying that because I personally feel nutrition will help you gain energy and well being, because of what I have learnt, both reading and for myself and after helping my mum recover from a heart attack, and serious illnesses she has had in the past, and my own, and how I felt in the past when I abused myself on various bad foods, crinks, and ciggies, and drugs.

    HOWEVER there are psychological reasons some people will choose to fast, as a way to release toxins from the body and mind. Water is a great rehydrater for the body, and of course cleanser also.

    I can't wait for years,..this puzzle is prohibiting me from living.I only exist.And that's a hard work by in and on itself.
    Will you tell me what you mean please? What 'puzzle'?

    Because I am a Person of faith too
    , what faith is that Chrizze? Christian? Were you brought up that way by your mum?

    and since my mind and soul is in torment,I will not allow my body to have any pleasures either.
    This really intrigues me where you say this. I understand that your mind and soul is in torment, because of the loss of the dearest person in the world to you, your mum. But I do not understand then when you say that because of that pain you must not let your body have any pleasures 'either'. I will be honest with you Chrizze, and you may have already found this out from previous things I have said here and in other threads. I am not mad on Christianity. I am more earth-centred pagan in love with the Goddess, and nature. With Christianity there happens a duality between the person and nature and the person and their body which I sense in what you say above. But in Goddess understanding nature is sacred, and so are Her cycles of life, death, and regeneration. I mean when you were in your mother's womb, hopefully all of your mind, soul, and body's needs were being taken care of? And that is how it should be, unless the mum takes toxic substances which harm the foetus in the womb which continues once she gives birth to her baby.
    What has happened is natural. People die. One day you will die, and me, and everyone contributing to this thread, and everyone who posts at the JUB forums etc etc. Life, death, regeneration. Life and death are always together as a dynamic process. So for example, every tap of my keys as I type this is kind of like the death of movement. The previous moment has to 'die' for the next moment to live, and so it goes. And these cycles of course include actual physical death which is part of the cycles of this great Mystery which we are all involved in--are moving in, life, death, regeneration. I know your mum will wish the best for you Chrizze. She will be wanting you to grieve, and express all of that emotion, but also to love your mind, soul and body. Really love them. Not cause pain (the opposite of pleasure) but nurture yourself. Shut your eyes and imagine your self giving yourself the most loving hug. Dissolve into that thought, image. Take sustenance from this, and allow it to take action in from now on as you help yourself recover, which will include a small fast if you desire, but looking into nutrition and how important it is for body mind and soul which is all one amazing dynamic process of being, including exercise. it doesn't have to be crosscountry lol. Just say, go for a walk for 20 minutes, and get fresh air, and then gradually increase. Exercise is wonderful Chrizze and will reinvigorate your being, but of course you will need nutrition of the energy needed.

  33. #183

    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrizze View Post

    To Ludolfo: - I have thought,that sometime in the distant future,they are showing pictures about refined sugar,like they do about Cocaine,etc,now.I used to use huge amounts of milk..in then years,or so ago.one litre for one hot meal.now only with tea.because,I noticed,that it masked the taste of the food,..now I don't drink anything with food.Just a tea after it.I know,Drug is a Drug,I have quite extensive history with illicit ones,..they give you good feeling,but don't cure the reason giving you bad one.Your brain really can't make distinction,whether you pour cocaine,heroin,or psych meds into it.they will adapt,you get tolerance,need more,have to switch to other,get withdrawals.There is no difference between licit and illicit,except just that.I don't try to punish my body,not at least in that way I see you understand,that I would.
    do you want to continue the English Lesson?

    I have thought that sometime, in the distant future, they will be showing pictures of refined sugar, like they do of Cocaine,etc, now. I used to use huge amounts of milk... years,or so ago. One litre for one hot meal, and now only with tea. Because, I noticed,that it masked the taste of the food,..now I don't drink anything with food, just a tea after it. I know, a drug is a drug, I have quite extensive history with illicit ones,..they give you good feeling, but don't cure the reason giving you bad one. Your brain really can't make distinction,whether you pour cocaine, heroin,or psych meds into it. They will adapt, and you get tolerance, need more, have to switch to other, and get withdrawals.There is no difference between illicit and illicit, except just that. I don't try to punish my body,not at least in that way I see you understand, that I would.
    Yes, I will not go near refined sugar!! If I do needd top have a bit I will choose brown unrefined sugar. Please try and steer clear of it Chrizze.

    Yes you are right, both illicit and legal drugs suppress how we feel when used habitually. Even what indigenous people anciently have called sacred medicine (psychedelics), these too can also be abused if they are used for escape from reality.

    I have seen enough times the powerful lesson that people who are heroin users believe they are numbing their complex pain, however no matter how long they have been on it, as soon as they detox, ALL the pain is still there and has to come out! This is so important to understand. That emotional feeling has to be allowed expression. If suppressed it is still there.

    What drug did you take Chrizze?
    Last edited by ludolfo; September 27th, 2012 at 04:12 AM.

  34. #184
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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    That Puzzle means this whole thing,that I am going through.. grief,questions about what now?,about suicide,etc.. No,all advice given here is good,I can have different points of views,like from my friends,I have 5 oh them,who know as much as you,at least.one of them got angry,other was quite logical,and sound,third was mostly surprised,fourth tried to make me feel pity for him...fifth,I haven't met her face to face after my mothers death..she is that american friend of mine,but talk through FB.she lives in different town now,but is planning a visit soon.My mother's parents were devout pentecostals,so my mother knew those things very well,and believed in...but we never talked about those things in my childhood..probably we even didn't own a bible back then.But after my parents divorced,my father remarried,and his new wife is devout methodist.That's the way I become more familiar,...had an "genuine conversion experience",even attended to bibleschool.but now I say "person of faith",because I can't subscribe any denomination we have here..

    You just have to take my word,that there is things in this fasting,that I need to experience.I might not know all of them even by myself..yet.Not so bad errors in grammar,and they were those,that are typical for me.

    I have at least tried any opiate there is,except heroin,because it is not available made by pharmaceutical company on here.It is,in U.K,for example,it's called "Diamorphine",because of stigma with name "heroin". But mostly Codeine,Tramadol,and Buprenorphine.used valiums short time,but they stopped working,as they do.last time I took 30 10mg valiums,and barely felt anything...but I was never truly amazed about benzos,so no problem.
    Last edited by Chrizze; September 27th, 2012 at 06:36 AM. Reason: Grammar,additions.
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  35. #185
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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Remember also,that use of opiate drugs will ultimately re-wire your Dopamine-Reward Pathway,so that you cannot feel any pleasure without drugs anymore.hence the opiate maintenance programs.I might have had done irreversible,or very slowly reversible damage to my brains.For example,when you take opiates,they take away feeling of hunger,among other things...but after continuous use,when you stop,you can't feel hungry anymore WITHOUT opiates.Remember,when I told,that I had lost much of my appetite? I could eat beef,and almost any food everyday for free,in my charity workplace.
    Last edited by Chrizze; September 27th, 2012 at 10:21 AM. Reason: Grammar
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  36. #186

    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrizze View Post
    Remember also,that use of opiate drugs will ultimately re-wire your Dopamine-Reward Pathway,so that you cannot feel any pleasure without drugs anymore.hence the opiate maintenance programs.I might have had done irreversible,or very slowly reversible damage to my brains.For example,when you take opiates,they take away feeling of hunger,among other things...but after continuous use,when you stop,you can't feel hungry anymore WITHOUT opiates.Remember,when I told,that I had lost much of my appetite? I could eat beef,and almost any food everyday for free,in my charity workplace.
    I am SO angry. I made effort in last post and then instead of copying it --just in case--I posted it and every time I do that i LOSE the fukin post. It is like this forum plays with me lol. SHIT!!! So this time I will not alter your paragraph but summarize what I said, trying to be cool OK. If it is your decision to fast then you will. You have read what I say also, and after your fast I hope you take what I say with respect, because I respect you, and wish you well.
    Please do not worry about brain damage. have you heard of Neuroplasticity? This is revolutionary scientific discovery that the brain is not some static organ that is set, and cannot change structure. If you change life style you can literally change the structure of the brain. It is just up to you to stop abusing your body, Thoughts on Neuroplasticity

    I am sure that your thinking you have damaged the brain by drug abuse must add to your depression, right? So I hope you can look into this and see that your brain can very much change with lifestyle change.

    By the way, what have you decided to do about magic truffles and self-healing? Remember, we talked about this before.

  37. #187
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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    I know,that brains have capability to restructure itself...you don't get anymore braincells,they only diminish in numbers.No,..in fact I do not recognize,that it would add to my depression...possibly,because,I am pretty sure,that nothing has happened.accustoming to do certain things while on high,is bigger problem.to do them when not in high.I am going to do that,..I wait,when opportunity presents itself. I believe,that I will have them,when time is right.that happened in those past occasions too.I always take,what everyone here says,with respect.
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  38. #188

    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    The Brain: How it can change, develop and improve. Featuring Dr Norman Doidge
    http://www.themonthly.com.au/brain-h...an-doidge-1385 [The reason why the ‘discovery’ of neuroplasticity is revolutionary (in 400 years) is because previously it was believed the brain was a machine like a computer, and different parts dealt with different things—like music and so on. This belief led to what I call, neurological nihilism—that whatever state of the brain there is you are stuck with it. That once it was ‘wired’ it couldn’t ‘rewire itself’, because machines cannot do that, and this also meant that one’s nature was fixed also]



    I cannot understand the rest of what you type? I sense you are saying that you are going to wait for the right time to have psychedelic experience?

    I find this before. It is very good. http://doc-jukebox.com/film/medical-...ocybin-therapy

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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Yes,basically,I mean,that if I go after them,perhaps time is not right,but when my friend calls,and says "I got some shrooms,wanna have some?",This is a kind of respecting them -thing.haven't you heard about the concept? I remember,there was two "schools" about psychedelics,..T.Leary was all about "set" and "setting", and Ken Kesey was having their "acid tests" regardless of practically anything.
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  40. #190

    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrizze View Post
    Yes,basically,I mean,that if I go after them,perhaps time is not right,but when my friend calls,and says "I got some shrooms,wanna have some?",This is a kind of respecting them -thing.haven't you heard about the concept? I remember,there was two "schools" about psychedelics,..T.Leary was all about "set" and "setting", and Ken Kesey was having their "acid tests" regardless of practically anything.
    I didn't like either of them lol. Well, Leary was against the Ecology Movement because he thought it was a hindrance to 'us' leaving the "womb-planet" and going into the stars. I got a book of his from years back called Exo-Psychology all about that, and he is talking about us genetically altering into these weird species. Thats all the Transhumanism stuff I am against

    Kesey and the Merry Pranksters were 'interesting' of course, but also VERY childish (and some are saying the CIA's puppets). I read that they spray-painted this forest with horrible garish day-glo colours!! I was horrified and that is not my understanding of psychedelic understanding and love and care for nature.
    I go for a walk in this lovely park, and there is this part of it that has this feel of Narnia. I am not sure what the trees are called--there are two there--but they are very magical, and I love this place. Some fukers have spray painted both of them with silver white paint----Not the whole of the bark, but like graffiti. I also noticed that the other side of the tree has had fire against it that has made the bark go like black charcoal. I am so upset about it, and I am afraid this is attitude of many of the youth (well SOME) that they disrespect trees, and nature. I can relate to this--though I never did that. Before I was to have LSD when 15, I had got dulled to nature and threw litter in lovely places. SO I am aware how this culture fucks up the young.

    But back to you. See, I was sensing urgency. I mean you are talking about very harsh fasts, and struggling with emotional pain. So this is why I wondered if you were going to make effort to order thsoe truffles from Holland rather than wait to see if friend turns up with them. If s/he does----will they be able to support you when you have experience.

    I am going to bed now . Good night Chrizze and see you tomorrow

  41. #191
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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Quote Originally Posted by JohannBessler View Post
    I understand what this means in theory, but in practice, what does it mean?

    Does it mean that you look inward, and find the things that make you happy? Or does it make you a better listener? In other words, what palpable changes occur?

    The definition of "self-awareness" seems vague to me.
    Well, one thing was that I became very aware of things I was paying attention to. You know how your gaze will move from one thing to another, and you don't really think about them? I found myself really aware of them, and my opinion of each one -- whether it was beautiful, out of place, useful, whatever. I don't know if those are thoughts I have anyway but don't notice, but they were very plain. Another was that I became aware of motives for things I did or said, especially if it was that I thought I could gain something from it.

    Then there was the physical: in the pond between those two dunes, I floated on my back with eyes closed. I clearly felt the little waves that lapped at my skin wherever it was at the surface, and the little currents tugging at the hair on my skin. Since I was skinny-dipping, it actually got a bit erotic. There was awareness of my body on a different level, too: I knew what I could or couldn't do physically.

    Another effect was that everything and anything I paid serious attention to (meditated on?) seemed important, whether my hand, the seagulls going overhead, the pine trees nearby struggling to grow in plain sand, even taking a leak down the side of a steep dune. It struck me that I was part of a system, where everything worked together... except humans, who could choose to aid or choose to damage.

    I'd have to dig out my old journals to find anything else -- I'm sure there's a good deal more, but that's what I recall.

    In terms of self and usefulness, the awareness of motives was most "useful" -- and not exceptionally pleasant a lot of the time. Ayn Rand would have been proud: I found that there was selfishness as a motive in everything, regardless of anything else.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Quote Originally Posted by ludolfo View Post
    This is because you believe depression is a mental disease, and I do not. But this is not the place for me and you to debate about this. But I will defend Chrizze from your 'help', and leave him to make his own mind up.
    Given that the altered function of the brain during depression has been observed and shown to be extremely similar in all the people studied, and that those states are different than those in the same people when they are not depressed, you're on very shaky ground in claiming there's no disease. My doc tells me that they've managed to induce those states in people's brains -- and the people get depressed.

    It's also been shown that the brain chemistry in those states is different. I don't think anyone's dumped the important chemicals into someone's brain to test cause and effect, though.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrizze View Post
    I know,Drug is a Drug,I have quite extensive history with illicit ones,..they give you good feeling,but don't cure the reason giving you bad one.Your brain really can't make distinction,whether you pour cocaine,heroin,or psych meds into it.they will adapt,you get tolerance,need more,have to switch to other,get withdrawals.There is no difference between licit and illicit,except just that.I don't try to punish my body,not at least in that way I see you understand,that I would.
    I am reminded of a rock singer I heard once who described his experience with drugs: You come home and find you don't have anything in the refrigerator, so you get high, and when you come down you find that someone has taken your refrigerator. He said at that point he decided that having drugs was not as important as having a refrigerator, and began the process of getting off the drugs.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  44. #194
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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Quote Originally Posted by ludolfo View Post
    And then I come along and say 'no don't do that do this'.

    I am though only saying that because I personally feel nutrition will help you gain energy and well being,
    I concur about nutrition, to an extent. I don't know of any benefit to having your body eat its muscle tissue. A Benedictine monk I met who was quite experienced in fasting said jokingly that proper fasting was like what Martin Luther said about drinking, "drink till you're happy, and drink thereafter only to maintain it". His point was that fasting to the point where your body is just about to start consuming its own muscle tissue is fine -- but then the trick is to take just enough nutrition to keep yourself there, and maintain the health of your body.

    Quote Originally Posted by ludolfo View Post
    I am not mad on Christianity. I am more earth-centred pagan in love with the Goddess, and nature. With Christianity there happens a duality between the person and nature and the person and their body which I sense in what you say above. But in Goddess understanding nature is sacred, and so are Her cycles of life, death, and regeneration. I mean when you were in your mother's womb, hopefully all of your mind, soul, and body's needs were being taken care of? And that is how it should be, unless the mum takes toxic substances which harm the foetus in the womb which continues once she gives birth to her baby.
    What has happened is natural. People die. One day you will die, and me, and everyone contributing to this thread, and everyone who posts at the JUB forums etc etc. Life, death, regeneration. Life and death are always together as a dynamic process. So for example, every tap of my keys as I type this is kind of like the death of movement. The previous moment has to 'die' for the next moment to live, and so it goes. And these cycles of course include actual physical death which is part of the cycles of this great Mystery which we are all involved in--are moving in, life, death, regeneration.
    The duality is not actually Christian, it's an import from Greek philosophy. Nothing you said after "in Goddess understanding" is alien to Christianity; in fact, most of it can be found in the writings of the medieval mystics.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrizze View Post
    But after my parents divorced,my father remarried,and his new wife is devout methodist.That's the way I become more familiar,...had an "genuine conversion experience",even attended to bibleschool.but now I say "person of faith",because I can't subscribe any denomination we have here..
    No worries; Jesus didn't belong to a denomination, either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrizze View Post
    You just have to take my word,that there is things in this fasting,that I need to experience.I might not know all of them even by myself..yet.Not so bad errors in grammar,and they were those,that are typical for me.
    Most people will never understand the benefits of fasting until they do it -- and not all even then.

    Regarding grammar, let's start with punctuation: a space is required after every punctuation mark. Some will tell you two after a period. For use of commas... I should ask Criostoir to drop in and explain those. For my part, I can tell you that there shouldn't be any commas in your first sentence, and in your last sentence the first comma is correct but the second shouldn't be there.

    Oddly, if the eighteenth century your punctuation would have been correct....

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrizze View Post
    I have at least tried any opiate there is,except heroin,because it is not available made by pharmaceutical company on here.It is,in U.K,for example,it's called "Diamorphine",because of stigma with name "heroin". But mostly Codeine,Tramadol,and Buprenorphine.used valiums short time,but they stopped working,as they do.last time I took 30 10mg valiums,and barely felt anything...but I was never truly amazed about benzos,so no problem.
    DON'T touch heroin!

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  46. #196
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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrizze View Post
    Remember also,that use of opiate drugs will ultimately re-wire your Dopamine-Reward Pathway,so that you cannot feel any pleasure without drugs anymore.hence the opiate maintenance programs.I might have had done irreversible,or very slowly reversible damage to my brains.For example,when you take opiates,they take away feeling of hunger,among other things...but after continuous use,when you stop,you can't feel hungry anymore WITHOUT opiates.Remember,when I told,that I had lost much of my appetite? I could eat beef,and almost any food everyday for free,in my charity workplace.
    According to a Lutheran psychologist I used to know, you can be wired back to normal. One thing that's required is extended fasting as I've described already: get to the point of your body starting to eat its own muscle, and then take just enough nutrition to stay at that point. He gave us a case study of a patient of one of his colleagues, who kept that level of fasting for over half a year, then suddenly started being able to tell the difference between different flavors of tea, where when she started she couldn't taste anything. It wasn't long after that when she started experiencing hunger again. It took over a month to get her back on solid food, though.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  47. #197
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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrizze View Post
    I know,that brains have capability to restructure itself...you don't get anymore braincells,they only diminish in numbers.No,..in fact I do not recognize,that it would add to my depression...possibly,because,I am pretty sure,that nothing has happened.accustoming to do certain things while on high,is bigger problem.to do them when not in high.I am going to do that,..I wait,when opportunity presents itself. I believe,that I will have them,when time is right.that happened in those past occasions too.I always take,what everyone here says,with respect.
    That's not quite true. There are certain conditions under which the brain pops out new cells -- they've induced it, too. This was found after medical scientists were blown away by a case where a damaged spine actually turned out new nerve cells.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrizze View Post
    Yes,basically,I mean,that if I go after them,perhaps time is not right,but when my friend calls,and says "I got some shrooms,wanna have some?",This is a kind of respecting them -thing.haven't you heard about the concept? I remember,there was two "schools" about psychedelics,..T.Leary was all about "set" and "setting", and Ken Kesey was having their "acid tests" regardless of practically anything.
    Leary was correct -- 4,000 years of Native American experience backs him up.

    ANYTHING psychedelic should be taken only in careful circumstances with a guide. The simpler the setting, the better: no TV, no traffic, no sirens...

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  48. #198
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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    I have never used coffee.I don't like it.By the way,Johann,who you reached the conclusion, That I have ruled the meds out? I haven't said so.

    Kulindahr: -know,Jesus was a capricorn.


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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Damned, why they can't have even an HOUR of time to edit your post? Sometimes I think faster than type, and words are missing from the sentence, because I thought, that I did wrote them.
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  50. #200

    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Hey Chrizze, good morning---just so happens this turned up in my email this morning: http://fitness.mercola.com/sites/fit...-benefits.aspx

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