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  1. #101
    Porn Star Chrizze's Avatar
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    re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Yes,I can see it very clearly.. To me,freud was complete idiot,who made from his own personal problems a doctrine.Cocaine addicted one,by the way.
    Last edited by Chrizze; September 10th, 2012 at 03:18 AM.
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  2. #102

    re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    yes, a coke head? lol One book that really critiques him, and the whole foundation of psychiatry and even psychotherapy is called Against Therapy, by Jeffrey Masson. have you read it?
    Also Watts book Psychotherapy East and West also exposes all their presuppositions about humans which are very misogynistic, racist, and as we know have seen in history, homophobic! You usually see those three together, but I would like to add misothery also which is loathing and fear of animals, including our own animal nature. I learnt about this reading this great book An Unnatural order: The Roots of Our Destruction of Nature, by Jim Mason. Animals were the first slaves!

  3. #103
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    re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    No that book,but "psychotherapy east and west",many times.
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  4. #104

    re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Where I differ from Alan is that he tended to be like an apologist for Eastern beliefs where as I really include them in my critical list. I dont know if 'apologist' is right term---he would kind of make them seem that they were benevolent when 'properly' understood. But I just calls a spade a spade (as is a saying from here to mean 'I calls what I see'). Take Buddhism---their goal is stated as wanting to escape the cycle of birth and death. I see that as part of the patriarchal myths which sees the body and nature as a trap. I also am against the whole Guru trip--of so-called holy men claimed to be 'enlightened' and more advanced from 'you'

  5. #105
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    re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    I agree with you with that "guru" thing...same goes with priests,..etc.If there is Divinity of some sort,that you can/should/would have contact with,..then there could be absolutely no need for "middlemen".. I think sheer logic would tell that.And to Alan who is he to say,what is "properly understanding"...by the way,did you knew,that during WWII,he pretended to be episcopal reverend,so that he would avoid going to war.Does not impress me about his character.
    Last edited by Chrizze; September 10th, 2012 at 09:45 AM.
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  6. #106

    re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Well I love Alan, and that is because he wasn't a hypocrite. You dont know this but through him I heard him talk about Krishnamurti, and so I checked him out and became a little obsessed with him. Not going to his talks etc, but buying his books and reading them feverishly--trying to get what I imagined he had...? what was that...? lol, errrrm. Well in one of his books --a big tome, and titled dramatically The Awakening of Intelligence--there is a picture of him looking at nature (I presume, because he would talk about observing nature without the observer and observed separated). And the way he is looking reminded me how I look when on a trip lol, i know this is mad. So in a way I was wanting some state of mind. This obviously meant that wanting that I was not content with my changing mind. This is complex to explain but bear with me. His teachings are very subtle and you feel you have to get the meaning. But what happened was I was unknowingly getting more and more under his power.
    One day immediately after finishing a book of his, I went to the library for another (hit), and I found a book called Lives in the Shadow of Krishnimurti. I though 'hmmm strange title' and it was by a woman. I just thought it was someone who was talking about his ideas, but it was his secret MISTRESS lol, and as I began reading bits in the library I went into cold sweat, because she was unmasking him, and I began realizing how far gone I had become investing my life in his stuff. I actually was quite traumatized by this---but it was a powerful lesson. It is dangerous to look up to others. Respect others yes, but not imagine that they are superior to you.

    With Alan it is different. I think of him like a friend, and if there was a green room after death I'd love to chill out with him I have respect for anyone who finds a way not to go to war, because war is utter insanity. That is how I feel.

  7. #107
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    re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    I don't claim Alan is hypocrite,it was opportunism,that WWII thing,Thought I agree,that war is utter insanity,but sometimes it has been lesser evil.what would have happened,if no one would stand against Hitler in anywhere? Of course,it's different in U.S ..it was draft at that time,..and no one would really had the capability to attack to continental U.S. But we,had two wars against Soviet Union,and remained independent nation,non-occupied one,btw.Only three Capitals in europe,of those countries who participated,were able to stay unoccupied by foreign military forces: London,Moscow.and Helsinki.During the war,I mean.but mostly after it too.I know krisnamurti too,and that mistress thing also.He tried to say,if I remember correctly,that there is no gurus to follow,nor a path,except one that you make when you walk.If he succeeded in that,is another matter.
    Last edited by Chrizze; September 10th, 2012 at 02:46 PM.
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  8. #108

    re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Yeah, glad you mentioned that---about he said there are no gurus, authority, or path. All well and good, but his whole act---if you will (I don't doubt he had integrity)--was of a guru. I never went to his talks, but very infrequently (this was before I had access to a computer) I would visit this very small K group who would play videos of his talks and then we'd discuss them. I would see K say to his audience in this weird way "have you got it? No you haven't" IE he was also giving out the authority that HE knew and his followers didn't. And of course this is a good strategy because it incites them to keeep coming back for more and more like a drug. So he may very well say that, but people did become obsessed with him, and under his power.
    With Alan I feel a completely different vibe entirely. For one he has such an infectious sense of humour which dissolves that authoritarian pretentiousness K had. Unless controlled by K, he would tell people NOT to laugh in his audiences "because this is serious". And he always wanted the last word. he was a bit of a control-freak.

    Asd for war. I have heard that argument before--with respect--which says 'what if we hadn't fought Hitler, what then?' Well Drizze, for one thing that war like most wars was fabricated by the elite for profit and to the acceptance and instigation for a State of Israel), and really all the lives lost in that war, or the war before WW1 (which my grandad was in) was absolute waste of life. NOTHING came from it. This is because war ins insanity and they are waged for profit for the few. So please see through this racket Chrizze


  9. #109
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    re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    I am completely aware,to my surprise,every word you say about WW's.War is racket,I know.Commander general of U.S marines told that about hundred years ago.But I still rather live in country,that got independence in 1917,rather than in dissolution of soviet union,in 1991,or so,with handful of our people left.,..But let's have that to be enough of war...You know,..those debates tend to heat,and I don't like that our good communication will stumble for that.We have our opinions,and If I want others to respect the fact that I do,I must assume this way of thinking:" I disagree of what you say,but I would die for your freedom to say it". ...Very good dylan's record,I got that on my shelf too.I like the song "when the ship comes in".
    Especially this version:

    Last edited by Chrizze; September 11th, 2012 at 05:56 AM.
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  10. #110

    re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    I will never go to war with you even here Chrizze, lol
    I just know I would never fight in organized war BUT if someone attacked someone I love on the street I hope to think I would go for their jugular

  11. #111

    re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    How things there by the way? Our weather has gone crap again. Cold, and wet, with flashes of sun quickly submerged by grey clouds---again. And how are you feeling today?
    Can I just say that you are one of the most real, and intelligent people I have met with in any forum. It is a great pleasure to meet you
    Last edited by ludolfo; September 11th, 2012 at 11:02 AM.

  12. #112
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    re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Same weather here too,..strange,I have heard that a lot,in real life,from third party,which means,it's not flattering.I have always kept things I know as general knowledge.sort of dull feeling,..It's not going to pass so soon,..I managed to get a "mean to exit",if things go bad,it calms me down,..when you DO have an option.Let's just say,its fast,firesure,painless,and don't disfigure body anyway.
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  13. #113

    re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    I saw a documentary about this older guy going to Switzerland to Dignitas to get help with his suicide. The guy presenting this documentary had himself considered it--he is the well-known author Terry Pratchet. Is is a VERY moving documentary (I have just found the video, see below). It is first time I had ever seen someone die like that so it was deeply moving for me.


  14. #114
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    re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    I couldn't believe first,when I stumbled upon things,that assisting in suicide in any way,is serious crime in U.K. ..here,I can provide,even potassium cyanide to someone,and sit, and watch. Assuming,I would have potassium cyanide. Only things required are,that person is sane,and that I had not been "compelled" him/her any way.but that is easily avoided,by not staying to sit,and watch.
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  15. #115

    re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Did you watch the film?

  16. #116

    re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    it is not clear whether your quoting from film, or mean where you are in Finland--ie from personal experience?

  17. #117
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    re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Quote Originally Posted by ludolfo View Post
    it is not clear whether your quoting from film, or mean where you are in Finland--ie from personal experience?
    No,I did not watch the film,and not quoting,neither personal experience...I know it from our law.
    And I have heard and read about such occurences.
    Last edited by Chrizze; September 13th, 2012 at 10:31 AM.
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  18. #118

    re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    why didn't you watch the film?

  19. #119
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    re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    I had read all about dignitas,et al. ..and I am not feeling,that the film is going to elevate my mood right now.
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  20. #120

    re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    well true, but often i find that when i am down i dont go for laughy laughy shit, but am attracted to very deep meaningful stuff where i get catharsis. This is same as the Blues where singers sing the Blues, but in the process get relief. Rather than singin dumbass tunes like 'on the sunny side of the street' lol, though admittedly those kinds of old tunes can elevate the mood too--depending.

    I think THE most important thing to get, whether you eventually are gonna kill yourself are not is an innate sense of humour. To really encourage seeing the funny side of things, even when it is dark

  21. #121
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    re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    I tend to agree.when I am depressed,I am usually starting to read history of The Nazi-Germany,...In fact,that's only time I will.Then,I realise,than some have had it much worse.
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  22. #122
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    re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    How would you evaluate my english language skills? What mistakes I tend to make?what needs improvement,etc? I ask,because,I want to make things right.I know,that I would probably pass as an american any day (my american friend said so),but probably never as englishman,unless I move there,and live there 20yrs.
    Last edited by Chrizze; September 14th, 2012 at 10:20 AM.
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  23. #123

    re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    I am delighted you ask me and am very glad to help you. OK I will take sentences you say that are needing help with grammar, and put mine next to them in bold to show you English grammar in a better way (or parts of your sentence). Are you happy with this way?

    What mistakes I tend to make?
    What mistakes do I tend to make?

    Actually what you have typed asking me is very good. The only bit is that bit above with a missing word lol. But I will help you every time I see your English grammar needs it. . You are very good though. I cannot speak or type ONE word of Finnish
    Last edited by ludolfo; September 14th, 2012 at 11:04 AM.

  24. #124
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    re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Yes,lack of usind DO, and DON'T instead of do not, and can't instead of cannot,was things,that my american friend also mentioned,but quite well,I believe,since I have no degree in english language,..basically I have learned it by myself.ENTHUSIASM is the key,another: -we have subtitles in TV.only programs that are for children who can't read.are dubbed.

    Finnish is very hard to learn for foreigners...

    Hey,just for me,read an article from wipedia "finnish grammar",... Then you might get the idea,why the english language was so easy to learn,at least for me.it is not so long article,and then we can discuss more about language.and also reasons for those typical errors I still have.
    Last edited by Chrizze; September 14th, 2012 at 02:13 PM.
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  25. #125
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    re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Yes,lack of usind DO, and DON'T instead of do not, and can't instead of cannot,was things,that my american friend also mentioned,but quite well,I believe,since I have no degree in english language,..basically I have learned it by myself.ENTHUSIASM is the key,another: -we have subtitles in TV.only programs that are for children who can't read.are dubbed.

    Finnish is very hard to learn for foreigners...

    Hey,just for me,read an article from wipedia "finnish grammar",... Then you might get the idea,why the english language was so easy to learn,at least for me.it is not so long article,and then we can discuss more about language.and also reasons for those typical errors I still have.

    It seems,that I tend to write english,like it is spoken,written language is always different.AmI right?
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  26. #126
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    re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    It seems,that I tend to write english,like it is spoken,written language is always different.Am I right.And those are AMERICAN movies,that I have watched,and american magazines,etc,..But "Queens english" is so clear,that you probably understand it,even if you do not. I hope to master something like that someday.Or would that be approppriate? I know,that social classes are identified,or assumed,the way you speak in U.K Is this still the case?

    95% of typos are because I mainly use iPad,and fail to notice typo within 10 minutes,which is editing time here.
    Last edited by Chrizze; September 14th, 2012 at 02:26 PM. Reason: Addition.
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  27. #127

    re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Yes it is interesting. It is amazing you have learn this yourself though, even if your modest and say it is easy. It is not THAT easy for me and I have been talking it since the beginning lol. But I get by and will help you become fluent in typing and hence speaking as much as I am able.
    I believe English, unlike say French, does not have male and feminine words, like the French have le and la

    I HATED HATED school, but we had a French class. At that time I was more wanting to learn Spanish (and I like Flamenco and Spanish--though I cannot speak it--just the odd word), but I wish I have learn t French, as it is a beautiful language.
    Another language I really love is Portuguese. I became familiar with this language because I really love Brazilian music, like Bossa Nova etc, and the language is very sensual. I learnt a guitar tune for very first time few months ago that took me AGES. I had to work out what this guy was playing--just his fingers--from a Youtube video lol. And the chords are quite exotic. LOL OMG I got into trouble at this Jazz guitar forum because I dared question some of the professional guitarist there when they claimed a chord was a particular chord when it didn't sound like it to my ears. I hurt some egos, but I was right in the end. I felt SO good when I finally could get all the chords down---I did their tabs, and started playing it. I have a LONG LONG weay to get good at it, but I really love this tune, and words in English and especially Portuguese This is the song and tune I was learning. This is not the actual video I was learning off, but I love this version from the guy who wrote it:


  28. #128
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    re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    One thing in Finnish,what is rampant in english,and rare in Finnish,are so called "phrasal verbs",when I got that idea,whole language suddenly opened to me,almost overnight.before that,Already had quite good vocabulary,but still wondered,why I not understand,for example,lyrics of some song.
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    re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    And our words almost always belong only to one class of words.noun is noun,verb is verb,adjective is adjective,etc,In english,same word could belong all of those classes,and by context you see,which one it is.
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  30. #130

    re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrizze View Post
    One thing in Finnish,what is rampant in english,and rare in Finnish,are so called "phrasal verbs",when I got that idea,whole language suddenly opened to me,almost overnight.before that,Already had quite good vocabulary,but still wondered,why I not understand,for example,lyrics of some song.
    One thing in Finnish, what is rampant in english,and rare in Finnish
    One thing in Finnish, that is rampant in English, and rare in Finnish

    when I got that idea,whole language suddenly opened to me,
    when I got that idea, the whole language suddenly opened to me,

    before that, Already had quite good vocabulary, but still wondered,why I not understand,for example,lyrics of some song.
    Before that, I already had quite a good vocabulary, but I still wondered why I did not understand, for example, the lyrics of some song.

    I can construct eligible sentences, I think, but when it comes to talking about the technical grammar of English I am not good at that. and have to go running to a dictionary lol

  31. #131
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    re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Yes,I often forget the articles,"The,a, and an"because we don't have them in our language.When I speak with my american friend,I quite often call a person "he",even thouhgt the person in question is "she".Because we dont have a gender in our language either.Funny thing is,that I never call "she" as "he",thought.
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  32. #132

    re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    I could quite happily enjoy how you communicate English. But because you asked I will show you how I do it. often I will type very not proper English' --I will try and express myself via certain ways. I may say gonna instead of 'going to' or stayyyyyy in stead of stay to communicate drawn out sound and emphasis. I mess around with it. But it will be good that you learn the 'correct' way and from there you can also experiment as you see fit. I mean look what Afro Americans do with English...lol I LOVE all that. It is very creative

  33. #133
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    re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Are you aware about the Linguist called David Crystal? ..,His big,almost A2 sized 400- or so pages "bible" solely about grammar? it's very easy to read,but even one sentence in his books contais more information. this is the book I have,and Talk about:

    The Cambridge Encyclopedia of the English Language - David Crystal

    I also have this book from him:

    The Cambridge Encyclopedia of Language - David Crystal
    Last edited by Chrizze; September 15th, 2012 at 11:09 AM.
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  34. #134
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    re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Are you aware about the Linguist called David Crystal? ..,His big,almost A2 sized 400- or so pages "bible" solely about grammar? it's very easy to read,but even one sentence in his books contais more information,than ten in any other. this is the book I have,and Talk about:

    The Cambridge Encyclopedia of the English Language - David Crystal

    I also have this book from him:

    The Cambridge Encyclopedia of Language - David Crystal


    Editing timeout again is readon for this almost a double post.why not even 20 minutes?
    Last edited by Chrizze; September 15th, 2012 at 11:16 AM. Reason: Too many to mention :)
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  35. #135
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    re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Having these discussions with you have been very therapeutic...sheer fact,that you care,and are willing to take this effort,to someone,you have never ever met.I appreciate it a great deal.I just wanted you to know.

    By the way,do you like science - fiction? In any form?
    I would also like to know,but of course,you don't have to tell anything.. How old are you? What is your vocation? ...if you don't eant to go specific...could you be ,my child,brother,of father,by your age range? Blue collar,white collar worker?
    Last edited by Chrizze; September 15th, 2012 at 12:32 PM.
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    re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Awful typos on three last posts...as if iPad wouldn't be enough...add cider,and there we are. :) :)
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  37. #137

    re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrizze View Post
    Are you aware about the Linguist called David Crystal? ..,His big,almost A2 sized 400- or so pages "bible" solely about grammar? it's very easy to read,but even one sentence in his books contais more information,than ten in any other. this is the book I have,and Talk about:

    The Cambridge Encyclopedia of the English Language - David Crystal



    I also have this book from him:

    The Cambridge Encyclopedia of Language - David Crystal


    Editing timeout again is readon for this almost a double post.why not even 20 minutes?
    No, I'd never heard of him before. I will checkout your links when I have time.

  38. #138

    re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrizze View Post
    Having these discussions with you have been very therapeutic...sheer fact,that you care,and are willing to take this effort,to someone,you have never ever met.I appreciate it a great deal.I just wanted you to know.
    Really pleased to hear that, and thank you for telling me. I also like to tell people what I feel to.

    By the way,do you like science - fiction? In any form?
    I would also like to know,but of course,you don't have to tell anything.. How old are you? What is your vocation? ...if you don't eant to go specific...could you be ,my child,brother,of father,by your age range? Blue collar,white collar worker?

    It depends. For example if it is REALLY cutting edge and is trying to reveal the dangers of our civilization and what it is doing to the living world then yes I have time for science fiction, but if it is just empty and celebrating the insanity of this world then no.

    I am 57.
    I am an artist.
    I am a no collar bohemian type LOL

  39. #139
    JohannBessler
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    re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Chrizze, Hi, there.

    I've not had the pleasure of meeting you, but I can empathize with your problem. My sister is bipolar, and almost everybody on my maternal side suffers from some kind of depressive disorder. I myself suffer from dysthemia but it isn't life threatening.

    I respect Ludolfo's opinion (and yours) but I don't agree with it. I firmly believe that depressive illnesses are physical and quite treatable. I believe each person has the right to a happy, fulfilling life.

    If we want to accept the fact that depression is physical, just remember that the brain is an organ--and like all organs in the body,it can become ill. A diseased pancreas brings us diabetes; a diseased liver brings us cirrhosis; an ill brain brings about depression or schizophrenia.

    Did you know they can take a blood test, and diagnose depression? Most often, the laboratory shows low levels of seratonin in the blood.

    If you still have a doubt that depression is physical, take a look at this picture please. PET scans were taken:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Yes,I have read about those studies as well.,..but what bothers me,is a kind of an "chicken and the egg" problem...are you depressed,because you serotonin levels are low? Or will your serotonin levels go down,when you get depressed? If first is true,then there maybe place for medication,but if it is latter,it would be,like taking some other drug to feel better..like,I occasionally have this habit with opiates..I don't try to prove either theory,since it is impossible to me,but they still can't measure what exactly happens on those synaptic clefts,where those drugs are suppose to take action..I don't think,that blood levels are accurately enough to tell things.It would perhaps clarify things,if it would be posdible to administer those neurotransmitter chemicals,serotonin,dopamine,or norepinephrine directly,but those chemicals don't cross blood-brain barrier.

    Depression Tests -- Blood Tests, Screening, and Other Tests

    They conduct tests to rule out OTHER possibilities,and diseases..not to find depression itself.At least that is what this article seems to tell me.
    Last edited by Chrizze; September 16th, 2012 at 09:38 AM.
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  41. #141

    re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    IF you have genuine brain disease, you know what happens? You are taken away from the psychiatrist and referred to a proper doctor!

  42. #142
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    re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Of course.my reply was to JohannBessler.I only hope,that I will be able to be without too much prejudices,when I see that doctor,..because,he is two years my junior.I am growing old.. or perhaps I am little bit of an ageist.If I would be 57yrs old,that would not matter...two years.
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  43. #143

    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    age is difficult to explain toe the young IF they are caught up in 'how old is you--ism?'...and if your over 30 they go, 'OMG yourrr ANCIENT' lol.

    Ie., what it feels like when you get older. I cannot speak for everyone but it is a feeling like being eternal and yet time is changing.

    Even that don't explain it (notice I used bad English then)

    . I have met people in their 30s who seem old to me. many people my age seem ancient to me lol. So I reckon that a lot to do with this sense i have is not getting rigid. many people get into a rigid ways of seeing and experiencing reality and they become old in the mind also and this shows itself to me, and yet I know that many older people also feel young or in a weird place where time is changing and yet...... but spirit never ages and yet it does. It kinda deepens? Experi--ence

    when i meet some young people I dont feel oldER. And yet when I meet some people I feel youngER...is very strange
    Last edited by ludolfo; September 16th, 2012 at 02:18 PM.

  44. #144
    JohannBessler
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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Quote Originally Posted by ludolfo View Post
    IF you have genuine brain disease, you know what happens? You are taken away from the psychiatrist and referred to a proper doctor!
    One runs into a catch-22 with that statement, Ludolfo, and here's why: a psychiatrist IS a doctor!.

    Psychiatrists work with patients on the basis of a belief that the brain is an organ that gets ill. Physical therapies (such as SSRIs, or ECT, etc) are used.

    By contrast, psychologist work on the basis that behaviors can be corrected. I confess that I have very little faith in psychology, but we are all gentlemen who can disagree like gentleman.

  45. #145
    JohannBessler
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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Chrizzee: in the end, I just want to help. There are some non-drug therapies that you might want to consider, if you don't want to take the drugs.

    I have been absorbed by sleep science for quite some time, and during the course of those studies, I have found at least two possible non-drug, sleep-related approaches. One of them was tested by the University of Freiburg and had a 60% success rate.

    The other one is my own idea, also put forward by a few other people. The few who've tried it reported a dramatic increase in mood.

    If you'd like to hear of either approach, please let me know. All I want to do is to see you get well.

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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Please tell,anything will be considered I do not have ...you know,I am not Sworn-in-antidrug fanatic Per se,I only thought,that we still do not know enough of brains..and those drugs,they want to that they have properties,that contradict each other.they should enhance your mood,made you happy,take emotional pain away,and same time dont do those things,because,addiction possibilities,etc.that's why I have self-medicate sometimes.and things,that scare,are side effects,possible permanent brain damaged,etc..for example,valium shrinks your brain,SSRI's could give you forever lasting sexual dysfunction,etc..Wellbutrin (voxra on here),is best so far,..no weight gain,no side effects,(yet,at least),no withdrawals..I have been without sometime to test.increased libido..
    It's chemical name is Bupropion...it is modified amphetamine....what,if I take it ten years? ..second issue is,that it is metabolised through same CYP450 system in liver,than some of those self meficating drugs..thus decreasing their efficacy.
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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop


    It depends. For example if it is REALLY cutting edge and is trying to reveal the dangers of our civilization and what it is doing to the living world then yes I have time for science fiction, but if it is just empty and celebrating the insanity of this world then no
    Just that kind of science fiction is not so common,and much more familiar from books,than films....what you think would be those that constitute such scifi? I would think..Isaac asimov,Arthur C.Clarke,All Russian writers,that has been published in west,..Doris Lessing...Dan Simmons..Aldous Huxley,.George Orwell.to mention a few.
    Last edited by Chrizze; September 16th, 2012 at 03:40 PM.
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  48. #148
    JohannBessler
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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrizze View Post
    Please tell,anything will be considered I do not have ...you know,I am not Sworn-in-antidrug fanatic Per se,I only thought,that we still do not know enough of brains..and those drugs,they want to that they have properties,that contradict each other.they should enhance your mood,made you happy,take emotional pain away,and same time dont do those things,because,addiction possibilities,etc.that's why I have self-medicate sometimes.and things,that scare,are side effects,possible permanent brain damaged,etc..for example,valium shrinks your brain,SSRI's could give you forever lasting sexual dysfunction,etc..Wellbutrin (voxra on here),is best so far,..no weight gain,no side effects,(yet,at least),no withdrawals..I have been without sometime to test.increased libido..
    It's chemical name is Bupropion...it is modified amphetamine....what,if I take it ten years? ..second issue is,that it is metabolised through same CYP450 system in liver,than some of those self meficating drugs..thus decreasing their efficacy.
    <nods head>

    I know about Wellbutrin. My uncle has to take it.

    He's one of those for whom none of the SSRIs worked. It took quite a bit of time to find something that DID work, and as you probably will have already known, Wellbutrin works differently from the SSRIs, or the tricyclics, or the MAORIs, even.

    But I think there might be a non-drug possibility involving rearranging sleep patterns.

    Chrizze, I've met quite a few men here on JUB who suffer from depression, and I can tell you that every single one of them suffers from some kind of insomnia. Do you?

    If so, I have some ideas. Are you game?

  49. #149
    JohannBessler
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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    <continued>

    Anyway, Chrizze, I thought I would at least tell you what the researchers at the University of Freiburg found.

    With the help of ECTs, they noticed that depressed patients have a different sleep architecture than "normal" people. Specifically, depressed patients go into REM right away, while "normal" patients take about an hour and a half to reach the first cycle of REM. This led them to conclude that depressed patients have a sleep architecture that is "out of sync".

    So they took a bunch of depressed patients and "resynced" their sleep architecture. Supposedly, they had over a 60% success rate. What's better is that the cure was "permanent", that is, the patients did not experience a relapse when tested some time later.

    Here's how it works.

    Take the normal time you go to bed. Let's assume it's 2 o'clock in the morning.

    For the first night, you will have to stay awake all night. Then, at 6'oclock that night, go to sleep. Stay in bed until 2'oclock the next morning. (You will note that you will be getting out of bed at the same time that you used to GO to bed).

    Continue on for a week. Do not deviate at all.

    Then, go to bed one hour later for a week. That is, go to bed at 7, then get up at 3.

    The next week, go to bed at 8. Get up at 4.

    Continue this progression until you get to the point where you go to bed when you want, then get up 8 hours later.

    What happens here is that your sleep architecture will re-sync itself. If you think of this in terms of a DSL modem, it'll make sense. A DSL modem, once in a while, needs to be re-synced in order to work properly.

    I draw this information directly from a textbook called Biological Psychology, if you're interested. Copies can be gotten for cheap over the Internet.

    I urge you to try this, if you don't want to take the drugs. Why not? The worst thing that'll happen is that it won't work--and then, you won't be any worse off than you are now, will you?

    Let me know if you want to hear the other idea. It hasn't been scientifically tested, but it might be easier, Anecdotal reports suggest that there is a dramatic improvement in mood.

  50. #150
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    Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

    I always had have quite different circadian rhytm,than other people.If,it would be possible,I would be those.who would do only graveyard shift.when I am yaking couple of fays off of my (volunteer charity) job,I will go to sleep about 02:00 - 04-:00, and wake up about 12:00 - 13:00...I am in peak mental performance.
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