Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

[ludolfo]

I think there's many levels to this. There is personal problems, but there are also VERY real outside pressures now that are making very many people deeply upset. Like what is happening to our beautiful planet Earth by insane greedy people who are trashing Her

[ludolfo]

Hey man, how are you today? How's the weather over there? Here it is grey, dark, close, with this drizzle in the air.

[Chrizze]

Same kind of weather here too..It has been raining over a week.Not any changes in my condition,not bad,or good.

[ludolfo]

(oMG. this place. you type something post it and it freakin disappears!!) If you could choose to live anywhere in the world where would you like to live?

[Chrizze]

Somewhere in The United States,perhaps in Florida,or San Francisco.

[ludolfo]

...where it's sunny most of the time I must admit of all the places in America, I'm very attracted to San Francisco

[Chrizze]

Only bad thing in San Francisco (that first cames into mind) is,that it is on top of the "San Andreas fault". On the other hand,there is often hurricanes in east coast.

[ludolfo]

Oh GOD I for got that, yeah. They have had terrible earthquakes in the past haven't they. Also I was watching a video about there only recently and it said that it also got foggy over 200 days of the year! I had a real freaky experience of an earthquake several years ago (they're very rare here). It is hard to describe. I was in bed, and I THOUGHT it was me lol--I thought I was having some kind of seizure, but it wasn't--as I found out in the morning. It was the worst earthquake reported. The feeling was like this VERY VERY fast shaking. Real odd feeling. I cannot imagine what a big one would be like. Must be terrifying, because your very body is quaking too.

[Chrizze]

There was an earthquake on U.K? I mean,a one that you can notice. How much it was on richter scale?

[ludolfo]

This was several years ago, and I suppose I should have taken the date and all that info but I didn't. But I'll never forget that weird feeling. It was not what I expected it to be. It is like your being vibrated---your bed everything. But I thought it was me---ie., some kind of emotional-physical seizure. hard to explain, but it DEFINITELY was an earthquake cause it was on news in the morning. I was glad because it meant it wasn't me. Have you never experienced one?

[Chrizze]

No,..Last such earthquake in Finland,that were noticed by the people,was in 1979,next from that,1882,and from that,1626.Greatest possible earthquake,in theory,that could occur here,would not exceed 5.0 on richter scale.We are far away from any faults,almost in center of eurasian plate..well,not exactly,..it's quite big a plate.

[ludolfo]

I have ONLY JUST noticed your signature

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.
Martin Luther King Jr.

I deeply respect that and try to live it. I had a thread here recently closed (not the first time either) for trying to do it, but I wont go on about it here. But i LOVE you have chosen that for your signature

[Chrizze]

This song carries something similar,as "message".




By the way,have you ever been noticed,that if you hold,or claim to hold,"high ideals" about life,to yourself,or others,Fate will soon put you into test.

[ludolfo]

I have seen that video before and LOVE that song!! I sure like your taste in music man. I am into all of that---real soulful music. This to me is very important to express myself, and will do when I can--ie., singing. I can get into some pretty deep soulful grooves which I find VERY healing. Afro Americans in the Gospel church--though I am not into the Christian dogma. I am more pagan lol---would call the feel;ing they get from the singing 'gettin the spirit'.
Here's one I just found the other day which I just LOVE--the FEELING. I will link it below. What Solomon Burke says--we are not free till last man is free is exactly what Monica Sjoo says in her books. She is a huge influence for me and writes about authentic Goddess religion, not the New Age BS. First most important thing is to KNOW you aren't free...

[Chrizze]

Very soulful indeed.And that in the Solomon Burke's song,"if you don't say it's wrong,then that says is right",...everything that The evil needs to triumph,is that good men do nothing,..I don't remember who said that."injustice anywhere is threat to justice everywhere" - Martin Luther King.Very important things.

[ludolfo]

Yes. i HAVE to question things. In fact I see the very act of always asking myself etc questions is a kind of feeling oneself OUT of bondage---psychologically at least. the oppressors depend on us being compliant and NOT questioning their myths, and that means they can manipulate the willing blind. some people choose not to but really it's no escape because they are not really alive--not feeling

[Chrizze]

Hmm..Just a question,since we both live in welfare states,at least what comes to the medical care,or lack thereof.how long you would estimate it would take for you to get an appointment to the psychiatric specialist through NHS,after suicide attempt,assuming,that the attempt itself did not land you to hospital.Mine was 31.7 and I got an appoinment in 2.10 ...two months.these things of course vary,depending on where you live,etc...but certainly you have a "general idea".This kind of time is quite typical here,could have been longer...and if you want something else,than drugs,..then you have to seek it from private sector.Medicalization of society is quite well established in my country.Until you mention,that you might find Valium useful...suddenly,medicalization stops there.

[ludolfo]

I am always trying to expose the mental illness myth whereever and whenever I can, and have collected lots of sources of information in my researches into this. I would not personally go to see a psychiatrist nor recommend anyone too, including you. BUT I am aware of the hopeless situation many --most--find themselves in when in desperate times, and attempted suicide is certainly that, --that their ONLY option seems to be going to see a shrink, and then we know what happens. They are quick to push 'medication' on you.
Pleaces like Soteria House, and Diabasis where people who wanted a caring alternative space were closed by the pressure from the pharmaceutical corps.

I have been through desperate times, though never having attempted suicide, but living precariously and yes--which is a form of suicide-dragged out. I have chosen Person Centred Counsellors, because that is the only thing offered in the National health which 1) does not push drugs on you 2) nor some dodgy psychological approach that treats you like a machine.
With PCC you have this meeting with someone who is trained to listen to you, and encourages you to NOT rationalize but feel what you feeling. So I can dig that, because a lot of shit is when we suppress what we feel which causes blocks physically and mentally.

If say I wanted to see one, I would have to go to the doctor and there is an 8th month wait!! And then you have about an 8-week session with one.

Hows things today by the way?

About the weather, here at LAST is sunny ahhhhhhh How bout yours?

[ludolfo]

[Chrizze]

Weather has been sunny couple days....Yes,I know about those things too,..big pharma scams,inventing diseases,so that they can sell their drugs...I read about that soteria house thing,about a month ago.what a coincidence...but since the problem is our whole way of living,which includes everything from our ideas about "democracy"..to things like very infrastructure all around us.and everything between.its easier to take pill,if I could find licit one,that works.which I doubt..

[Chrizze]

In fact,my mother died,because of the drugs she used,for schizophrenia,caused her a diabetes,and kidney failure.the fact that the drug is causing those things has been known by the company,Eli Lilly,when they had some 3bn $ fine from...misleading FDA,by revealing only favourable test results,etc...

[Chrizze]

You know..I can't see how I could change our "civilization" to more civilised...moving to somewhere else? perhaps,but that requires money,which I don't have plenty of.I am on disability pension.

[ludolfo]

Weather has been sunny couple days....Yes,I know about those things too,..big pharma scams,inventing diseases,so that they can sell their drugs...I read about that soteria house thing,about a month ago.what a coincidence...but since the problem is our whole way of living,which includes everything from our ideas about "democracy"..to things like very infrastructure all around us.and everything between.its easier to take pill,if I could find licit one,that works.which I doubt..

Glad yopur weather's is sunny too I am delighted that you know about the mental illness myth! I am VERY grateful that many years back, I 'happened' to find this book--the cover of it really attracted me, and it was called The Myth of Mental Illness, by Thomas Szasz. Who know--if I hadn't found that book, I could have been taken in by this myth and gone on their stupid drugs.
Yeah it is amazing you only recently reading about Soteria House. That sounded like an amazing place. I also read a great book about another place called Diabasis. If you read, this is a fascinating book about it--- Trials of the Visionary Mind , by John Weir Perry

Your right that all the structures of this insane culture are made so that people will go mad. This is one of reasons I am liking the meaning of the Mad Pride Movement. I immediately could relate to that title, being gay, and knowing about gay pride. It is saying eg---to the 'world/control-freak-in-theface' 'look. I am seeing through your lies, your act. I am finding out how you drive people mad and then label them 'mentally ill' and give them damaging drugs, ECT, cetra, and treat them like lesser than you. I see your mean world where you make people have to to sleep homeless in the cold wind and on wet concrete till they die, and how you love wars, dropping your evil bombs and and maiming and slaughtering little ones, and polluting all life, and how you call that 'normal' and 'sane'. I am seeing right through you fukin toxic bullshit, and I am not on my own. We are proud to be 'mad' because being mad means we are on to your insanity, want no part of it, and want to expose it so others can see it'. something like that lol

Here's a video of interview with Perry

And here is a great video I just found that I love

[ludolfo]

In fact,my mother died,because of the drugs she used,for schizophrenia,caused her a diabetes,and kidney failure.the fact that the drug is causing those things has been known by the company,Eli Lilly,when they had some 3bn $ fine from...misleading FDA,by revealing only favourable test results,etc...

I cannot imagine how you feel about this.
They are criminals. All we can do is try do whatever we can to expose them and what they do and so try and wake others up to their danger. They depend on supply and demand which is why they fight tooth and nail to keep the myth going, and of course they are part of the world that is insane and creates so many real pressures for people, and many don't know how to cope. One time as I am sure you know they said gay people were 'mentally ill'. One of the main inventors of the computer, was mathematical genius Alan Turing --who went to my town's university in the 1950s and was found to be gay--which was a CRIME then-- and he had the "choice" of either to go to prison OR to take these drugs which basically turned gave him female hormones and he grew breasts. He became so depressed he killed himself. They still will not apologize for how they treated him because they say at that time homosexuality was against the law!! They are without any love or care--heartless.

[ludolfo]

You know..I can't see how I could change our "civilization" to more civilised...moving to somewhere else? perhaps,but that requires money,which I don't have plenty of.I am on disability pension.

The way I look at it, where I get an energy from is---that IF I can see what is going on, which means exploring and asking questions and not being afraid to look (which I sense some people are) that THAT itself is enough, get me? it's like if I am talking about this with others and they may say eg 'so what can we do??. It all seems so overwhelming (which it can when you dive into the rabbit hole of it all), but I think that the control-freaks in order to enslave us in various ways depend on us not being aware of how they do this. Like their myth we are talking about above--the mental illness myth--they depend on people going to the doctor, and totally being subservient to his/her authority, same with the psychologist, the shrink, and just doing what they say. All that becomes the authority, and many people don't know how to question it or say 'no' to it. I have this video I saved which I will try and find where this woman is saying how you can challenge the authority of say a doctor trying to get you on pills with 'I'll think about it' lol IE, instead of saying outright 'no' you just deflect it
Regarding the bigger picture. I think that the 'education' system tries to make us trained so we do not see interconnections. So they would not allow us to see the interconnections between mental health, and how we treat the land, and others, the whole schebangle. So I then DO do that. I am seeing connections all over lol
so bottomline is to just allow ourself to see and hear and feel and it is THIS that is undoing what they want which is for us to be dull dead robots, subservient to their authority and non-questioning

[Chrizze]

I have to say,..everything you write,is..something I have been pondering some time...By your writings I think,you have been seen a movie,The Matrix? ...feels like that sometimes. That thing with Alan Turing.. Without him,many things with WWII could have ended differently,..and that's what he got.So damn wrong.

[ludolfo]

lol yeah the MATRIX. where me and that film greatly differ is that in the film they try and make Neo this superman, and that idea is SO freakin the NWO. Don't know if you know about Transhumanism? Well it is this thing that is I think being pushed more and more on us which goes like this----we are robots, and super-technology will save us by 'upgrading' us. It is already actually in action with the use of psychiatric medication which are supposed to 'improve' our 'faulty' chemicals and genes. You must be hearing about animals, and people with Alzheimers having 'chips' put in them? And there is supposedly this pill now people are to swallow that is like a computer and tells the doctors computer IF you've taken the psych. meds like he told you to. Kids in school who for whatever reason don't get on there are told they are 'ADHD' etc and drugged. All of this is the State wanting to put stuff in us to 'improve' us, and that is there 'transhuman' agenda. So it is wise to wake up to this game like yesterday!
And with Alan, it is tragic. It shows you just how they treayt even people who have helped them---he helped them crack this impossible code in the war, and yet even after that they do that to him and don't even apologize. Shameful. it must have been hell to be gay then---but also in a perverted way, exciting lol

[Chrizze]

That transhumanism sounds like upgraded version of that 60's thing,when it was widely believed,that advancements in technology will eradicate all bad things from earth...disease,war,famine,,..etc.It can't because Man had not changed a bit,as long as there is recorded history,nothing had changed,except in past 200 years,technology.Being gay was crime up to 1971 in finland,..but it was kinda "accepted" for certain groups of people,..artist,people with wealth,or influence,etc..and everyone knew those people.Alan Turing would not have to suffer that fate here.because of that service,he made to the fatherland.

[ludolfo]

Yes the PROMISE of technology in the 1960s. Those dodgy adverts. have you heard of Edward Bernays. He wrote a book called Propaganda and he brags about how a hidden elite 'controls the masses' without their knowledge and gets people to buy stuff they don't need, accept wars, and fight in them,etc etc etc. His nephew was Sigmund Freud, and he used his Uncle Siggy's psychoanalytical techniques to fuck with peoples minds. So for example, Bernays was approached by the tobacco industry because they wanted more women to smoke cigarettes (because it wasn't the done thing for women to smoke especially in public), so what Bernays set up was this massively televised march in NYC and he hired these models posing as suffragettes and then on cue they were to all reach into their garters put out a ciggie and light up. And this was meant to smbolize the image of the 'litte penis', and the 'torch of liberation' and thus putting it into the minds of the millions of women observers that smoking means that a woman is liberated!! When in reality they become hopelessly addicted to nicotene which can cause physical diseases which are not liberating:



Whenever so-called 'debunkers' accuse me of being a "conspiracy theorist' if I tell them stuff about 9/11 etc, I usually always mention Bernays, because he openly informs us--cause apparently he loved to brag about it--that there ARE secret groups who conspire to manipulate peoples subconscious. They though on the whole depend on us not knowing what they are doing, and so this is why I love to explore exposing them and what they are doing for my own sanity and telling others about it. But you can get hostility from some people when doing this, because built into the matrix is the people policing each other. This is a big part of the mental illness myth. Family members will police even their own children if they think they are "mentally ill".

[Chrizze]

Well,I am well aware about most conspiracy theories,that there is,..at least about their core ideas.Some of them,..however,cannot be true,at the same time,since many of them contradict each other.How do we pick up The real thing?Of course,there is basic things,that I know almost like A Priori,like,that something is definitely going on,that media mainly lies to us,that "education" system is really an indoctrination system..but when things get finer..what to trust? How you do it,for example?

[Chrizze]

I have been reading stuff from thomas szazs couple of days.Very refreshing,..And I tend to believe those things,because they make perfect sense.

[ludolfo]

Well,I am well aware about most conspiracy theories,that there is,..at least about their core ideas.Some of them,..however,cannot be true,at the same time,since many of them contradict each other.How do we pick up The real thing?Of course,there is basic things,that I know almost like A Priori,like,that something is definitely going on,that media mainly lies to us,that "education" system is really an indoctrination system..but when things get finer..what to trust? How you do it,for example?

I agree with you that there are false conspiracy theories. Examples are David ickes reptilian nonesense lol. His philosophy also is typically New Age, and so I do not trust him. He mixes in good info with disinformation, and this is intended to discredit the useful stuff. Same with many of the researchers I come across. Another example is the Christian researchers of the occult symbolism of 9/11--not sure if your familiar with this?. BECAUSE they are Christian ANYTHING the consider 'pagan' must be against their 'God' and thus evil. So although some of their research is useful, all that is most definitely not useful and is what I call toxic myth. Ie., if they are wanting to swap the 'Illuminati' stuff for their stuff it is out of the frying pan into the fire! They are anti gays, anti psychedelics, anti communing in deep ways with nature. AWFUL. I have lots more to say on this but I am cooking and need to have something to eat. So I will be back later

[Chrizze]

I know all about Christians,..I used to be one.and specifically,one that was well into their conspiracy theories.But when the day came,when I realised,that what they promised,did not realised in real world,..then,that was it.I still have many friends from that era,today I only pretend,and try to make sometimes to get some of them to think with their own brains.I am always been a spiritual person,but then I was Religious. You know where the word "religion" cames from? Latin,"Re-ligere","to bind back again".that says it all.

There is couple of quotes,from Shakespeare,that if you bear them in your mind,you can avoid great deal of troubles.

1."This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man."

2."Neither a borrower nor a lender be,
For loan oft loses both itself and friend,
And borrowing dulls the edge of husbandry."

I so much like that old English.

[ludolfo]

I wasn't brought up in a strict Christian household as such, but it leaks into things like for example fear of same sex, etc. If you fill in forms you put C of E which means Church of England, but it is just an empty label. I went through this short phas years ago---I think I told you I was searching searching and even joined the Hare Krishna cult in one phase? Well another phase I had when going through a VERY tough psychological crisis was Christianity. The family had one of those very big old Bibles with a fancy cover and illustrations of 'biblical stories' etc, and as a kid I would look at the pictures, and I used to like the smell of the book lol...So anyway I dived right in. I found this Church that dig Gospel music---but it was more Jamaican style rather than Afro American Deep South ---but I went on some occasions and really got like quaking experiences when the singing began, and you would have big fat black women marching up and down the aisle singing their heads off LOL. meanwhile the youth were sat at the back sat down totally disinterested and lookin over at me bemused why I was this sole out of their hood guy gettin into this

Anyway so I was studiously reading the Bible and I get to the St Paul bits where he is saying all bad stuff about homosexuals and I just dropped it like a hot potato. I just instinctively knew I did NOT need any more guilt!!
But before that happened, I will tell you how far gone I was---I read in the Bible that any sin is forgiven except the sin of blasphemy against the holy spirit. ....Well the next second I was thinking the worst most obscene shit against it and I ended up on the floor trying to stop what I was thinking and doubled over in pain in my stomach...LOL how crazy is that? But with experiencing first-hand stuff like this it drives home just how dangerous beliefs can be.

So you asked me before how do I sort out the reasonable theories from the absurd conspiracy theories? I bring to this judgment all I have learned and am learning and question. I am really distrustful of theories that insult Nature, or my body, and nature (my natural being) I have found that control-freak mindsets create stories which are intended to divide and control us. So I look out for hints of that strategy.
By the way, I am glad your reading Szasz. he is very succinct in his reasoning which can be refreshing.

So you like Old English? yes it certainly has a charm about it. Some people claim that William Shakespeare was really Sir Francis Bacon. Have you heard this theory before?

This is my favourite from Shakepeare:

Prospero:

Our revels now are ended. These our actors,
As I foretold you, were all spirits, and
Are melted into air, into thin air:
And like the baseless fabric of this vision,
The cloud-capp'd tow'rs, the gorgeous palaces,
The solemn temples, the great globe itself,
Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve,
And, like this insubstantial pageant faded,
Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff
As dreams are made on; and our little life
Is rounded with a sleep.

[Chrizze]

I found out,this experience of "finding god","being born again",etc...is one-time incident.After that,you either spend rest of your life with that religion,lying to yourself,without even knowing it,or,like in my case,get forever vaccinated against all of them.No,that one I am not familiar with,..but it's good.

So,basically,"Cui bono",is good rule of thumb for these conspiracy things,when further information is not available.

[ludolfo]

I think I told you? THE book which was the book which turned me on to looking at mythologies in a more serious way---in my own way, not going all academic. In my own way of doing it---was a book called The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross, by John Allegro. It blew my mind. It revealed to my that the old mythmakers composed the myths in layers using all forms of literary devices. Allegro ---funnily enough he ALSO went to the university in my hometown that Alan Turing did lol---was chosen to be in a special group of researchers handpicked to study the Dead Sea Scrolls, and he was also a philologist (study of language in written historical sources) Iit had never occured to me that mythology was written like that, though I had hints--- although I knew about symbolism of images of course. And with him revealing secret ancient use of psychedelics this REALLY peaked my interest, and made the deepest sense to me. it kinda connected me with the past somehow.
I now see 'born again 'meaning the sense one has after any deep experience when you feel exactly that, born again. You see the world with fresh eyes. it can also be with mad eyes too. We can actually say this happens every morning when we wake up. In sleep we go through cyclic vibrations that include alpha waves, theta waves, delta waves, then theta, alpha and then as we wake up beta waves happen as we become more alert, and so on. In delta it is supposedly the most mysterious because it is deep dreamless sleep and this maybe the most rejuvenating.

Anciently, psychedelic experience has been considered sacred because you can experience a kind of 'ego death' after which you feel born again. For me the most authentic meaning of this is when we see and feel the natural world as sacred, and how we are interconnected with it with alive eyes--where dullness has gone.
For many cults it is more the sense that you now believe their dogma--the born again Christian, etc.

Yes Cui Bono is the essence of finding who dun it! ESPECIALLY there's also a big clue that when trying to say who you think it is it can get you in trouble, and the very people you suspect make laws to try and stop you investigating them.
I

[Chrizze]

I had have heard about that book,it was mentioned in one of my favourite sci-fi writer,Philip K Dick's books.I might have to get that book.

[ludolfo]

I must have read it at least 3 times, and some of the pages are falling out. I was attracted to the book like this---I was walking through town, and passed this bookshop that sold odd books and comics and some soft porn. It was sunny day and looking through the windows of the shop the sun was falling on this book and the colour making it glint, and that's what got me going in and atraight to it lol. The colour of the cover is like a tawny mushroom colour.

Me little finding the mushroom book story

[Chrizze]

First,I am not trying to challenge you any way,I had never had need for that...But,rather,this is something I have,.let's say "entertained a thought about".If,as you,and more or less me,assume,that there is no mental illness involved,hence they don't exist.. I thought,that if I end up committing suicide,it would be very close,what some say,when they talk about thing called "rational suicide".Meaning,that with thorough examination of myself,and of any foreseeable future chances,I come to conclusion,that: "been there,done that,got the t-shirt".
Just living here takes an effort,even to those most fortunate of us.

[bankside]

I have a good friend who had been through the diagnosis of mental illness, medication, therapy, and whether she was diagnosed "ill" or "well" it did not give her comfort either way.

She came to the realisation that often the struggle and the effort are not due to illness or mental or emotional inability, but because shitty things happen to people. She decided, "no, it's not me." This is a fucked up situation I find myself in. Here is another. And another. And this next problem has been going on for years. How else am I supposed to feel but overwhelmed? What else am I supposed to do but hate what is going on in my life?

It was a relief to her because she realized that whatever mental struggles she might have, many of the things in her life were fundamentally not her problem, even though they affected her. They did not originate within her mind. And she stopped questioning herself and her reactions; she was able to make decisions to help escape the shitty situations.

One of the best things I heard about "mental illness" from her: sometimes shitty things happen to people.

I am also wary of over-medication or years spent in therapy rehearsing the same problems. But I also believe the brain is an organ like my pancreas or spleen. And if my lungs can get pneumonia or my pancreas can tire and give way to diabetes, certainly the brain can suffer from problems that make it difficult to reason, or solve problems, or navigate emotions, or grasp potential for contentment & joy to make it a real experience. Sometimes transitory problems, sometimes chronic. And as my friend lived it, to first rule out a misdiagnosis of other people's bullshit as just another of her mental illnesses.

To be careful and smart in accepting treatments is one thing, but to exclude the possibility completely seems to me like a diabetic refusing insulin or a person with a broken ankle refusing a cane.

[ludolfo]

First,I am not trying to challenge you any way,I had never had need for that...But,rather,this is something I have,.let's say "entertained a thought about".If,as you,and more or less me,assume,that there is no mental illness involved,hence they don't exist.. I thought,that if I end up committing suicide,it would be very close,what some say,when they talk about thing called "rational suicide".Meaning,that with thorough examination of myself,and of any foreseeable future chances,I come to conclusion,that: "been there,done that,got the t-shirt".
Just living here takes an effort,even to those most fortunate of us.

Well yes the mental health movement claims people commit suicide when 'the balance of the mind is disturbed' meaning that the chemicals are unbalanced and thus the person is not 'normally' functioning. And as we both agree the mental illness model is built on myth. So your asking then can a person reason that suicide is the best way to end a life they consider not worth living?
In our news the last few weeks was the story about this guy who had a disease which left him completely helpless and without dignity and he wanted permission to be allowed to commit suicide. He ended up going to court in order to allow for this, and so if a member of his family or doctor helped him die they wouldn't be criminalized. he was refused, and there was a picture of him sobbing like a baby. I of course think people like him should be allowed.
So what about someone like yourself who seems to think that life has nothing more to offer, yet is physically alright etc?
Well, the way I come at this is that I am very aware that this culture suppresses psychedelic healing. I see psychedelics as sacred medicine. Sure, you can party with them, but their ancient meaning is deeply sacred! And unlike the whole concept of modern medicine which treats us like a machine-body, psychedelics can affect body, mind and soul. I feel with you Chrizze from how you have shared with me how you feel that you feel a big part of you has gone, and this was caused by the loss of your mum. That maybe you would like to be with her? You feel utterly lost here--in this 'mean' world. Alone and lost?
I think that with psychedelic experience taken with the intention for healing this deadness you feel that you could rekindle the lost part of self. You may think this an exotic idea, I don't know. But consider just how dramatic actual suicide is--it is LA FINALE. Babum--the end! So it may be wise then to at least consider some way of healing that is not as final and drastic as the complete ending of your life. I am VERY VERY interested in all about this so could offer you as much support and info as I can

Some people may warn people off this way. often you will hear warnings that people with 'mental illness' should not take psychedelics. Hmmm, but IF a person is getting ready to why NOT give it a go. What is there to lose? Psychedelics inspire flux. it is very easy for us to set-up a mind-set which goes over and over the bad shit in our lives, and also the regrets etc etc, but what psychedelics can do is allow a seeing and feeling OUT of this set or box, and re-invigorate, enliven, re-energize.
But if you were to choose to try this, great respect and care must be given to set and setting. To the intention. And I could give you suggestions, stuff to read to hopefully inspire you. other than that---energy comes with interest, passion in questioning and exploring. That is how it is for me anyway.

[Chrizze]

These things are not at all unfamilar to me...I have been tried LSD once,and mushrooms couple of time..I know about ayahuasca rites,and ibogaine rite.I have thought about that..but It has to be very familiar source,to get those things,..they have been selling BromoDragonFly as LSD... That LSD,was a good trip,btw..and good feeling lasted whole week afterwards.My friend said that,Salvia trip was also...quite mind blowing.

[Chrizze]

I feel with you Chrizze from how you have shared with me how you feel that you feel a big part of you has gone, and this was caused by the loss of your mum. That maybe you would like to be with her? You feel utterly lost here--in this 'mean' world. Alone and lost?

that's it,quite exactly,..thought,I have been lost many parts before that,but love to my mom,and sheer sense of duty kept me going.. But now I am like Ronin.

It was in summer,2001,when I stepped over some psyschological self-defense mechanisms,and added suicide in to the repertoire of ways to check out here.And it has been there ever since.how many barriers I crossed,when I actually attempted,seriously,to do that?

[ludolfo]

Hi Chrizze, Good morning ~~~So you may have problem getting reliable sources for psychedelics? yes I know this is a huge problem for people because of their stupid and evil so-CALLED "war on drugs" when secretly these insane control-freaks in power do covert drug-running to fuel their wars etc! I know that it is September now and at least here in England this is the season (a bit later) when those little magic mushrooms grow in parks etc. Do you have that there?
I have also recently found out you can legally buy 'magic truffles' from Holland! I had never heard of them before, and am tempted myself. So there is that option too. Magic Truffles
Buy Magic Truffles - PSILOCYBE HOLLANDIA

Check them out. This means I think you would need Paypal Account.

my heart is really with you man. I told you right at beginning that where you ARE I DREAD for myself. because I am VERY close to my mum, and the thought of her passing away is kind of a place of thinking that is dreadful--hard to explain, I cannot dwell on it, it is unthinkable~~~ but you are living it! So how I feel about our conversation, relationship, is strange

I was thinking about you today when I was having a morning walk. I was thinking about CHOICE. Ok, it went something like this: I COULD right now go down to the river, jump in and have a swim; I COULD choose to do cartwheels to the shops; I COULD stand out in road and sing, etc etc etc. there is nothing to really stop me doing stuff. But what often stops us is this kind of sense of suppression--like a wall around us. We fear what others may think if we do stuff---they may think we are 'mentally ill'--etc. So many of us learn to NOT do things, and we becomes more and more pushed in puches in till it can be suffocating, emotionalls and physically. So I am aware of this.
In a way, SUICIDE is this dream of ahhhhhhh just releasing ourselves from the closed-in prison we feel in. But...but what IF , just as experiment we say eg: OK, I HAVE freedom to kill myself, sure. BUT IF..IF I can be bold enough to do that, why dont I also experiment with doing other things i can do---such as what we are talking about above etc, ---just some thoughts

[Chrizze]

Yes,we have psilocybe species here too,..I would have to find someone who know those things,which can be achieved,if I really go into it.But so far It has been easier to get my hands on to "opiate - based" drugs,but not street drugs,Only those that comes from pharmacy.I would not bother to order online anything,because,first,many of those in netherlands,do not ship any of that kind to certain countries,often Finland included,second,Police in my country does not need any warrant to search you,or your home.By the law,of course they do,but not from judge,..Officer in duty can make that decision,..and law text is so vague,that it equals to "any reason whatsoever".Police officer told me straight,that "we are not inteterested about your pill-popping(valium at that time)",but where this joint came from?? ...I thought "well,..thanks for a tip.If it is better to society,that I will come addicted,ultimately,to morphine,than peacefully smoking some pot,..then,that's what you going to get"...Our Healthcare system is almost designed to be misused.From conspiracy point of view,this makes perfect sense.pot is quite harmless,as psychedelics too,when properly used,..but these others,that they "don't care about",will ultimately destroy your life,perhaps land you to prison,and kill you.What's more convenient to them.

[Chrizze]

I might consider that psilocybe hollandia,..after all.no paypal,no credit card,direct bank transfer,which is best.This is only good thing in European Union,common market area.

I agree,that trying everything else before suicide,is recommendable.I am trying to do that,as much as possible.But I can't promise anything,..that's what I am telling to my friends too.

[ludolfo]

They are insane. it is very liberating when you realize this actually, because when you don't realize it the authority in control of us all can drive you mad in various ways because they MAKE NO SENSE!! And I am sure this affects very many people indeed--may are on psych, drugs. You only have to look at faces, and see a deadness. it is like they have accepted their little roles in society and that's that, and this world that makes no sense whatsoever. But when you really find out that the ones you are supposed to trust are insane this empowers you because your seeing through their act/mask/facade and getting to the real. Some people may resist this because they fear a chaotic feeling, but for me living a lie is far worse than just obeying, and not asking questions and accepting their utterly nonsensical matrix. Like where you say---they don't mind you taking valium, or opiates, but natural weeds from the Earth is FORBIDDEN.

Recently I saw a video this guy had done. he is going through bad times, is in rehab---coming off heroin habit--and he is constantly down BUT he is growing a little garden and says that seeing these flowers growing is helping him. ANYway he was wondering why many people hate 'weeds' and he shows this 'weed' in his garden which is lovely. And it made me think that the reason that THIS insanse culture doesn't like weeds is because it can't make a profit from naturally native plants. So it makes all these poisons to KILL them which it CAN make a profit from. And this made me think of what they did when they invaded NATIVES lands and horribly treated and murdered millions of them. Same thing---natives. This is what I have meant before and would like to explore with you later, example, how they look and relate to land, the natural world, is same how they relate to other species and humans in an abusive way.

So you are going to try and buy the magic truffles from Holland? Like I said they are legal, and you should have no trouble having them sent to you, but from there we need to do very careful research how much is safe to eat. Ie., they could be too powerful----ya know to ask around. I belong to several forums which talk about psychedelics so I could ask for reasonable dosages, etc.

If someone was to ask me right now 'what is the meaning of life' I would say to love yourself. So when partaking of the sacred medicine this is crucial to feel. have you ever spokeni to plants? I have--AND sang to them lol. if and when you get these organic beauties it bides well to have a heart to heart with them because you will be digesting them into your body, and you can't get more personal than that. I love you So much I could eat you lol

[ludolfo]

Hey Chrizze, remember me mentioning Alan Watts? He has been a big influence of my life. Yesterday, after you asked me that very deep and importan question, I came upon this video series of his talk, check them out. You will find all parts in related videos. It is a bit confusing when you try to find next parts so let me explain best thing I do. Copy the title but change part 1 to part 2, etc.
I THINK there are 8 parts in Our Of Your Mind I (first series/volume) but there is also another series Out of Your Mind 11 (but you will notice the picture has his image with pipe in mouth to tell difference from first series also. Hope this is not too confusing? If it is let me know). Here is part one for the first series:

[Chrizze]

And things of the nature cannot be patented either..shrooms are legal in netherlands,but not here.(even thought they grow naturally here,by the way,I can grow opium poppies legally,as long as I am not going to extract "milk"),what a madness).If they find them out in customs,which is 1/10 chance..well,.small fine.

Alan W.Watts? The Zen guy? I have read almost all of his books.

[ludolfo]

I am not sure shrooms are legal even in Holland anymore. I know that about two years ago these Christians got into power and they fabricated this styory about a foreign tourist taking magic mushrooms in Amsterdam, thinking she could fly and falling to her death from a bridge Magic mushrooms banned in Netherlands . But as of yet (though in this world your expecting the control freaks to include thm at any moment) magic truffles are legal to buy.
Yeah they are completely insane, but there is method in their insanity and it is called 'wanting to totally control our consciousness'--they do this with their 'education' system, their mass media and its propaganda, it's occultism, and its war on what we can and cannot ingest into our bodies.

I have read many of Alan Watts' books too. Some of them many times over---especially in my desperate times. When I finally got online and at last finally got to see and hear him, this was AMAZING and added dddper dimensions to my experience of him---the tone of his voice, his sense of humour, and the twinkle in his eyes.
I love it in these talks how he is explaining the two great myths of our times---the 'ceramic model' and the 'automatic model'. The former is the idea that a 'God' makes us like a potter, but is different from 'his' creation, and it sets up a hierarchy like a subject prostrate to a king, and the latter where the drop the hypothesis of this God, but keep his 'laws'. And in this model the energy of nature is supposed to be blind energy, and in the psychological realm via Freud with his concept of Libido meaning blind lust, and therefore the controlling mindset believes that nature and our natures need their authoritative control less we becomes too wild. You can see this all actually played out in how they subjugate nature--destroying it, and us of course, can't you?