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  1. #51
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    Re: What's the One Gay Issue You Care Most About?

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    Nonsense. A proper upbringing? What's a proper upbringing?

    . Jesse Jackson is not a bad or despicable human being.

    .
    [Text: Removed] There are people who still have and maintain standards.

    Jesse Jackson's sins are too many and too public to catalog. Suffice it to say that he is a thoroughly despicable man.
    Last edited by opinterph; February 9th, 2013 at 11:00 PM. Reason: removed baiting remark

  2. #52
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    Re: What's the One Gay Issue You Care Most About?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    As for PDA, those are perfectly fine and could be absolutely tasteful, if not overboard. Holding hands, hugging or a goodbye kiss is perfectly acceptable, and frankly, I question the upbringing of anyone who thinks those are things that should be kept away from others.
    Such an upbringing belongs to the Kaiser's Germany or George V's England. Moderate PDA's make life more cheerful -- and I mean for observers.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  3. #53
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    Re: What's the One Gay Issue You Care Most About?

    I would say how Gays are presented in the Media. I feel that the effeminate stereotypes hinders progress of Gay Marriage and a slew of other issues.

    I would rather see less of queens, trannies, and those of us who choose to do their raunchy things at pride parades, and more of us every-day guys that are more likely to blend in with society. Seeing more of us are what I feel would make straights who are on edge with us more comfortable being around us.
    Telling it like it is.

  4. #54
    JUB Addict maxpowr9's Avatar
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    Re: What's the One Gay Issue You Care Most About?

    Quote Originally Posted by MystikWizard View Post
    I would say how Gays are presented in the Media. I feel that the effeminate stereotypes hinders progress of Gay Marriage and a slew of other issues.

    I would rather see less of queens, trannies, and those of us who choose to do their raunchy things at pride parades, and more of us every-day guys that are more likely to blend in with society. Seeing more of us are what I feel would make straights who are on edge with us more comfortable being around us.
    I feel the same way. I can tolerate that at pride but in the actual media ugh, we are the "token gay". Even looking at "queer media", it still is just as bad. They're either twinks or gym bunnies and heaven forbid you find a non-white gay.

  5. #55
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: What's the One Gay Issue You Care Most About?

    I am also with Giancarlo. If you're not an effeminate man, drag queen or transgender, then more power to you, but don't ask for those people to be hidden. It's exactly what the world has always tried to do to ALL of us, and it is shameful when it comes from within our community. Those people exist, they are different and beautiful in their own ways, and those differences should be celebrated, not hated for what ignorant bigoted people might think of them. If someone will think you are a drag queen or secretly ultra-femme when you're neither, then that person's opinion is too idiotic and should not matter to you.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  6. #56
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: What's the One Gay Issue You Care Most About?

    I don't mean to speak for Mystik and I understand how you guys took it the way that you did, but I don't believe he was asking for htem to be hidden but rather pointing out that stereotypes have become the stock trope of the gay role on screen, when that's not a comprehensive or accurate depiction of gay men en masse, and I agree with him.

  7. #57
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: What's the One Gay Issue You Care Most About?

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    I don't mean to speak for Mystik and I understand how you guys took it the way that you did, but I don't believe he was asking for htem to be hidden but rather pointing out that stereotypes have become the stock trope of the gay role on screen, when that's not a comprehensive or accurate depiction of gay men en masse, and I agree with him.
    You know, I keep hearing about all those evil, harmful and cliched stereotypes on screen, but... where are they? Where are those movies and tv shows TODAY, that have those cliche characters that so tarnish the gay community?
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  8. #58
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: What's the One Gay Issue You Care Most About?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    You know, I keep hearing about all those evil, harmful and cliched stereotypes on screen, but... where are they? Where are those movies and tv shows TODAY, that have those cliche characters that so tarnish the gay community?
    It is not my contention that they "tarnish" the gay community, but I do feel that the pop or celeb culture geared, Cher and/or gay icon fan, surrounded by female friends or female sidekicks image is still utterly prevalent, the posterchild of the "gay role on TV", when even the 3 of us right here in this discussion could probably not agree on what rough percentage of all gay men this purportedly represents, but we would probably all agree that it doesn't represent at all, or possibly even most gay men, I wonder why this is the only depiction you can easily find. I don't watch a whole lot of TV right now at this very moment as we speak, but the imagery of the friendzone best gay friend curling up with his best gal pal under the blankets eating ice cream and watching chick flicks comes to mind in so many movies and so many TV shows, and when you see this and you have difficulty finding more realistic or broad representations, I don't know why we sit and wonder why the mainstream has stereotypic images of us.

    I'm not saying there's something "wrong" with that kind of gay guy, or "wrong" with showing that this kind of gay guy exists, but Mystik is correct that Hollywood frequently reduces a gay presence to a sidekick role, and he'll more frequently resemble Jack from Will and Grace than Will. Probably the most popular show right now with a significant gay role is Glee and well... nuff said.

    We've been through this topic before guys so I know you guys perceive this as an "attack", and you rush to defend the elements of the gay community you believe it to be attacking, but rather than an attack on one type of gay male it's really more of a pointing out that there's another gay guy out there who struggles to find someone who represents him. Hollywood isn't short up of a diverse depiction of heterosexuals, why should we be happy with a very limited depiction of homosexuals?
    Last edited by xbuzzerx; February 10th, 2013 at 09:04 PM.

  9. #59
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    Re: What's the One Gay Issue You Care Most About?

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    J Jackson is a thoroughly despicable human being. Even if he were to finally depart this vale of tears, the odium attached to him would still taint the rainbow flag, which is too bad, but it is what it is.
    Would you settle for Barrabas?

    No one can make you feel inferior without your consent. - Eleanor Roosevelt

  10. #60
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    Re: What's the One Gay Issue You Care Most About?

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    It is not my contention that they "tarnish" the gay community, but I do feel that the pop or celeb culture geared, Cher and/or gay icon fan, surrounded by female friends or female sidekicks image is still utterly prevalent, the posterchild of the "gay role on TV", when even the 3 of us right here in this discussion could probably not agree on what rough percentage of all gay men this purportedly represents, but we would probably all agree that it doesn't represent at all, or possibly even most gay men, I wonder why this is the only depiction you can easily find. I don't watch a whole lot of TV right now at this very moment as we speak, but the imagery of the friendzone best gay friend curling up with his best gal pal under the blankets eating ice cream and watching chick flicks comes to mind in so many movies and so many TV shows, and when you see this and you have difficulty finding more realistic or broad representations, I don't know why we sit and wonder why the mainstream has stereotypic images of us.

    I'm not saying there's something "wrong" with that kind of gay guy, or "wrong" with showing that this kind of gay guy exists, but Mystik is correct that Hollywood frequently reduces a gay presence to a sidekick role, and he'll more frequently resemble Jack from Will and Grace than Will. Probably the most popular show right now with a significant gay role is Glee and well... nuff said.

    We've been through this topic before guys so I know you guys perceive this as an "attack", and you rush to defend the elements of the gay community you believe it to be attacking, but rather than an attack on one type of gay male it's really more of a pointing out that there's another gay guy out there who struggles to find someone who represents him. Hollywood isn't short up of a diverse depiction of heterosexuals, why should we be happy with a very limited depiction of homosexuals?
    But the thing is, you're just wrong. What you describe might be the 90s', and even the 2000s' stereotypical gay guy in movies, but today?

    Glee's Kurt might be a flowery fashionista, but he is also a strong young man who overcame bullying, self-loathing and small-town bigotry. Blaine is a socially and politically conscious guy who is stylish, but also masculine and classy in a way that's absolutely divorced from the "screen gay cliche".

    The Wire's Omar is... need I really explain how much he is NOT the gay cliche?

    Skins (UK) had two gay character, both of whom were slutty happy-go-lucky teens with no outward "gay" qualities. And the first one - Maxxie - was the kid who had the most of his shit together among the entire cast.


    Brokeback Mountain's gay cowboys were anything but stereotypical.

    Latter Days may have had a random party boy as one of the protagonists, but the other one - the Mormon boy - was anything but stereotypical.

    In fact, other than the gay-THEMES movies (particularly the sex comedies like Eating Out and the likes), I am having a hard time to even come up with a recent movie that has had the cliche gay guy.


    Comic books are rife with serious strong gay characters - Young Avengers' Teddy and Billy are all touchy-feely with each other, but they are as heroic as any of the actual Avengers - and more. X-Treme X-men has a Wolverine from an alternative reality where he is boyfriends with Hercules. Astonishing X-men took a whole storyarc to develop a realistic gay marriage between a superhero (Northstar) and a civilian. Etc.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  11. #61
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: What's the One Gay Issue You Care Most About?

    Sadly, I haven't seen The Wire, is Skins available on US television? I pretty much expect the UK to be a little ahead of us with its TV depictions though, given how many shows of note were UK first before ever being known or encored or re-cast for a US version.

    At any rate, you mentioned a lot of the strengths or capabilities of these characters, and I agree with you that Hollywood if anything does make the attempt to take minority portrayals and make them strong, capable, often times even "smarter" than the mainstream roles, almost kind of like a guilt or corrective sort of measure. I don't disagree there's lots of STRONG gay roles-- nor did I ever say or imply that only weak gays are portrayed. I just think so many are awash in tropes, whether it's the guys giving advice on how to maintain flowers in American Beauty or guys who know everything about gay icons, pop culture and fashion, being asked opinions on clothes or women's shoes, etc.

    I could be out of touch with TV just because I don't watch a lot right now, I just honestly never hear anyone say anything but "oh don't you watch Glee? IT HAS A GAY GUY IN IT." lmao. On top of the fact that Glee isn't really a very good depiction of reality generally, I could say that even if I were a h.s. student now I have almost nothing in common with anyone in the cast. I was too busy trying to get interviews with Cardinal Mahoney or someone in the LAPD to get comments on local issues for the newspaper to be a 'fashionista' lol. It's sorta like a musical version of Clueless for the 2010s.

  12. #62
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: What's the One Gay Issue You Care Most About?

    I think Glee - with all its faults - has been a powerful voice for tolerance and has addressed some really important issues.

    SKins was on BBC America, but I'd recommend finding the original UK TV version - not even the UK DVDs or whatever is on Netflix - because they are the only ones with uncut scenes and unaltered soundtrack (the idiots didn't have the rights for half the music).

    And I ask again - can you give me examples of recent cliched gay characters?
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  13. #63
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    Re: What's the One Gay Issue You Care Most About?

    I only skimmed the thread(so I may have missed some things) but I wanted to add that while there is nothing wrong with being visibly gay, there is also nothing wrong with not being visibly gay as long as you're being yourself that is all that matters.

    I also wanted to add that another gay issue that needs to be addressed is you can still be fired in 29 states for being Gay. That is just shameful.

  14. #64
    JUB Addict maxpowr9's Avatar
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    Re: What's the One Gay Issue You Care Most About?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    I think Glee - with all its faults - has been a powerful voice for tolerance and has addressed some really important issues.

    SKins was on BBC America, but I'd recommend finding the original UK TV version - not even the UK DVDs or whatever is on Netflix - because they are the only ones with uncut scenes and unaltered soundtrack (the idiots didn't have the rights for half the music).

    And I ask again - can you give me examples of recent cliched gay characters?
    The A-List and a good chunk of Bravo at this point.

  15. #65
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    Re: What's the One Gay Issue You Care Most About?

    Quote Originally Posted by layton View Post
    I only skimmed the thread(so I may have missed some things) but I wanted to add that while there is nothing wrong with being visibly gay, there is also nothing wrong with not being visibly gay as long as you're being yourself that is all that matters.
    Of course you're right. Problem is that many people who aren't visibly gay, find different reasons to feel threatened by those who do. And that's not ok.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  16. #66
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: What's the One Gay Issue You Care Most About?

    Quote Originally Posted by maxpowr9 View Post
    The A-List and a good chunk of Bravo at this point.
    I don't have cable, I watch my shows online, so I don't know what's on Bravo.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  17. #67
    JUB Addict maxpowr9's Avatar
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    Re: What's the One Gay Issue You Care Most About?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    I don't have cable, I watch my shows online, so I don't know what's on Bravo.
    Here's a minute of agony...



    1 Girl 5 Gays is another example of gay exploitation.

  18. #68
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maxpowr9 View Post

    Here's a minute of agony...

    <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2jHlq7AP_Y">YouTube Link</a>

    1 Girl 5 Gays is another example of gay exploitation.
    1 girl 5 gays deals with the scene crowd. And anyway, I was talking about drama (in the sense of scripted shows), not reality tv.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  19. #69
    JUB Addict maxpowr9's Avatar
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    Re: What's the One Gay Issue You Care Most About?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    1 girl 5 gays deals with the scene crowd. And anyway, I was talking about drama (in the sense of scripted shows), not reality tv.
    What's the difference between the two?

  20. #70
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maxpowr9 View Post

    What's the difference between the two?
    Um, one works with "real" people (even if they aren't behaving in the most natural way for them), and the other - with imagined characters that someone wrote. Which is what we are talking about when we talk about "portrayal".
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  21. #71
    Banned chance1's Avatar
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    Re: What's the One Gay Issue You Care Most About?

    The single most important gay issue of our time is a sustainable economy - a good job - a future

    same as str8 people

    oooooh is that a litmus test buster ?

  22. #72
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    Re: What's the One Gay Issue You Care Most About?

    ^ I see you're back.

    Actually, chance1, that's not topical to the thread. The OP wanted you to list an issue specific to the LGBT community. It could be marriage equality through the courts, a state amendment in your home state, adoption, further military benefits for LGBT married families, international visas for your foreign spouse, ending blood discrimination through the Red Cross, etc. There's a host of topics to choose from besides intentionally trying to derail the thread.

    #439th oldest member on JUB.

  23. #73
    JUB Addict FanofFiction's Avatar
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    Re: What's the One Gay Issue You Care Most About?

    I have two issues, one is a national (Canadian) issue and the other is an international issue.

    For a few years I have been urging Canadian politicians to investigate the negative attitude of law enforcement and the court system towards GLBT people in Canada. When I was in university I started studying the topic, because my theory was that Canada was so much better than other Western countries on the issue. I quickly found out I was wrong. I found a startling catalogue of events where GLBT people were either ignored by police/RCMP when approached for help, harassed or treated unfairly during invesitgations, punished more harshly than heterosexual counterparts for committing the same crimes... the list went on and on. I still add to my catalogue (though I don't have the same amount of time to dedicate to it). Things are not getting better. My ultimate desire would be a Royal Commission and a revision of protocol. I'd also like to see the specific court cases on my list be revisited. Sadly, to date NO political party has taken up my cause.

    Internationally, I'm concerned about countries enforcing a death penalty or prison sentences for homosexuality. That is serious shit.

  24. #74
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    Re: What's the One Gay Issue You Care Most About?

    Quote Originally Posted by FanofFiction View Post
    I have two issues, one is a national (Canadian) issue and the other is an international issue.

    For a few years I have been urging Canadian politicians to investigate the negative attitude of law enforcement and the court system towards GLBT people in Canada. When I was in university I started studying the topic, because my theory was that Canada was so much better than other Western countries on the issue. I quickly found out I was wrong. I found a startling catalogue of events where GLBT people were either ignored by police/RCMP when approached for help, harassed or treated unfairly during invesitgations, punished more harshly than heterosexual counterparts for committing the same crimes... the list went on and on. I still add to my catalogue (though I don't have the same amount of time to dedicate to it). Things are not getting better. My ultimate desire would be a Royal Commission and a revision of protocol. I'd also like to see the specific court cases on my list be revisited. Sadly, to date NO political party has taken up my cause.

    Internationally, I'm concerned about countries enforcing a death penalty or prison sentences for homosexuality. That is serious shit.
    Sounds like our cops here.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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