Reality Check: How are gasoline prices in your area?

[JayHawk]

Well put Just Believe.

The point has already been made that this thread has existed for nine pages of random entries without becoming a "I hate Obama oh let me count the ways" thread... until now... YAY!

Paid 3.62 here.... nothing on the radar that should affect prices... so is it the unusually warm spring like weather ??? Have the oil speculators caught spring fever already for the normal eighty cent bump in prices that always accompanies the spring these days??? My guess is fuel prices hit 4.90 this spring.... this is just the beginning.

[JockBoy87]

here's the rest of that.

"ExxonMobil is the largest non-government owned company in the energy industry and produces about 3 percent of the world's oil and about 2 percent of the world's energy."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ExxonMobil

Thank you for proving my point.

Government producers are the largest source controllers of oil prices.

[TX-Beau]

Oil companies sell oil to the commodity market where speculators set prices.

Governments are not "speculators" either, the situation is nowhere near as simple as the above.

[Kulindahr]

The intent of the Keystone Pipeline will not do anything to alleviate gas prices, chance1 and Jack_Springer.

As the economy gets better, gas prices get worse. When the economy gets worse, gas prices get better. At some point between $4.50-$5.00 range, gas prices begin to choke the economy. Until we remove ourselves from the dependency of oil (not just foreign oil), we will never escape the vice grip of gasoline prices.

Fortunately, the Obama Administration has mandated higher fuel efficiencies for vehicles. So we may inevitably pay for higher gas prices, but they will be offset by driving vehicles that drive further on a gallon of gas. As we continue to build new solar and wind energy power, we will use less oil and gas to power our electricity. These are all ideas proposed by the Obama Administration.

We must abandon oil. No matter how much less gas we use here in the United States, or how much we produce, it won't matter. China and India will consume every barrel of oil we don't consume, plus more. There is no U.S. economic policy when it comes to oil that will bring down oil prices. So long as China and India's economies continue to grow, we will see 2.5 billion people exponentially use more oil every year.

This is the reality we live in. That is mathematical fact based on 2.5 billion people needing oil versus the 330 million of us. The demand for oil has only begun. Any status quo of pumping out more oil and refining it for gasoline to drive our economy is irrelevantly suicidal.

Well, we can manufacture oil using thermal depolymerization -- that's one thing Senator Wyden told me at our town hall meeting: he's going to be working as head of the energy committee to get permits for such plants streamlined the same way they are in Europe, so we can get them going here. The beauty of it is that someone living in the vicinity of such a plant could toss a dumpster's worth of ordinary trash into the garbage on Monday, and on Thursday fill up with gas made from that trash.

That doesn't solve the environmental problem, but it would keep the profits here in the country and provide jobs, boosting the economy substantially.

Oh -- latest number I've seen, if the permitting mess could be simplified, is break-even at around $3.60/gallon. If the facility gets paid for taking the trash at the same rates municipalities currently pay to get rid of it, that drops to $3.45/gallon.

[Kulindahr]

Thank you for proving my point.

Government producers are the largest source controllers of oil prices.

They only control what they provide to their own people; the rest they dump on the market and fare like anyone else. In the end, the speculators affect the price more (and since they never actually physically take possession of the oil, they pay a far lesser tax rate on the transactions than anyone else).

[JockBoy87]

They only control what they provide to their own people; the rest they dump on the market and fare like anyone else. In the end, the speculators affect the price more (and since they never actually physically take possession of the oil, they pay a far lesser tax rate on the transactions than anyone else).

I'm really racking the up the support tonight.

Oil companies sell oil to the commodity market where speculators set prices.

[GiancarloC]

it is truly hard to fathom how someone can be so unaware

i posted a link from nbc news - now one from abc news

32 str8 days increasing
4 month high

Okay so it's Obama fault I'm telling you what I see from Gasbuddy.com in the last few days. That's all. It's an App on a smartphone. I know Smartphones may beyond the grasp of certain republicans... but they are out there.

yet giancarlo keeps blathering on about that not being the case when all he would have to do is READ a post

Where did I say it wasn't the case? I said in my local area, prices plateaued. Please read, and stop trolling.

Seriously stop with this nonsense... I'm just so fed up with this au contrarianism.

[TX-Beau]

I'm really racking the up the support tonight.

Yeah, Aramco is the Saudi state company that controls a hell of a lot more than what they provide to their people. You reduced a complex equation to a simplistic absurdity.

[GiancarloC]

And as far as the other posts, fair point. Gas prices won't go back down to $2.50 or something. It's simple supply and demand. But demand has declined. So much of this has NOTHING to do with demand. It's mostly market speculation and manipulation.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...8DH4W320120217

So while the US economy is improving, it's not more dependent on oil... oil demand from last month was down 5.7% from a year ago, and the economy is better than it was a year ago... so it's interesting to note, perhaps the dependence on oil is being reduced as we speak. Obviously the right wingers on here may have to give up their gas guzzlers...

So even as prices go up, demand isn't... in fact demand has been in decline for quite some time thanks to improved standards.

[JockBoy87]

But demand has declined. So much of this has NOTHING to do with demand. It's mostly market speculation and manipulation.

Oil is a global commodity, independent of the demand of the US economy.

There was a brief dip in global demand in 2009, but it is booming now more than ever, mostly because of China.

Other countries buying oil impacts how much you pay at the pump.

[maxpowr9]

Oil is a global commodity, independent of the demand of the US economy.

There was a brief dip in global demand in 2009, but it is booming now more than ever, mostly because of China.

Other countries buying oil impacts how much you pay at the pump.

This is exactly the reason that domestic input has been increasing at a greater rate than previous years. Of course many Americans would be appalled to realize that most of the petroleum obtained within our boundaries is shipped overseas. On the same token, they would refute the fact that the reason we sell the oil to other countries is that they are willing to buying it at a higher price than Americans would. That in a nutshell, is Capitalism 101.

[GiancarloC]

The US economy is one of the largest consumers of fuel products, so it most certainly does matter. And oil demand is not booming more than ever... it's kinda stalled out. Even the most optimistic viewpoints are very cautious.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/iea...-02-13-4485746

The IEA has said such projections are overly optimistic. Most of the present price increases are because of speculation, not because of global demand increasing.

I'll conclude again the majority of increases in prices at the pump are speculation, not demand driven. In addition, there is no shortage of oil to meet global demands.

And much of the increase in price has to do with the shutting of two oil refineries, NOT demand...

http://www.kvue.com/news/Gas-Prices-...191764561.html

[JockBoy87]

The US economy is one of the largest consumers of fuel products, so it most certainly does matter.

I did not say US demand does not matter. It is part of a whole. US demand does not wholly drive oil prices in the US.

And oil demand is not booming more than ever... it's kinda stalled out.

The International Energey Agency says you're wrong.




http://omrpublic.iea.org/

[GiancarloC]

I've just cited the IEA and they said that most reports showing a large leap in demand is overly optimistic. So where am I wrong? This is getting ridiculous. Demand in US and most of the West is down, not up.

And again most of the increase in price isnt' associated with marginal increases in demand. It's associated with the closure of two major refineries and speculation.

Next time read what I post. I've made myself VERY CLEAR.

[JockBoy87]

I've just cited the IEA and they said that most reports showing a large leap in demand is overly optimistic. So where am I wrong? This is getting ridiculous. Demand in US and most of the West is down, not up.

And again most of the increase in price isnt' associated with marginal increases in demand. It's associated with the closure of two major refineries and speculation.

Next time read what I post. I've made myself VERY CLEAR.

Current demand in the 90s of mpd is remarkable, given pre-recession demand was in the high 80s.

[GiancarloC]

Those projections by the IAE's own admission were overly optimistic. Read the more recent article I posted.

[Jack Springer]

The intent of the Keystone Pipeline will not do anything to alleviate gas prices, chance1 and Jack_Springer.

As the economy gets better, gas prices get worse. When the economy gets worse, gas prices get better. At some point between $4.50-$5.00 range, gas prices begin to choke the economy. Until we remove ourselves from the dependency of oil (not just foreign oil), we will never escape the vice grip of gasoline prices.

Fortunately, the Obama Administration has mandated higher fuel efficiencies for vehicles. So we may inevitably pay for higher gas prices, but they will be offset by driving vehicles that drive further on a gallon of gas. As we continue to build new solar and wind energy power, we will use less oil and gas to power our electricity. These are all ideas proposed by the Obama Administration.

We must abandon oil. No matter how much less gas we use here in the United States, or how much we produce, it won't matter. China and India will consume every barrel of oil we don't consume, plus more. There is no U.S. economic policy when it comes to oil that will bring down oil prices. So long as China and India's economies continue to grow, we will see 2.5 billion people exponentially use more oil every year.

This is the reality we live in. That is mathematical fact based on 2.5 billion people needing oil versus the 330 million of us. The demand for oil has only begun. Any status quo of pumping out more oil and refining it for gasoline to drive our economy is irrelevantly suicidal.

The problem with your argument ... the economy is not getting better -- we had negative growth in the last quarter of 2012.

The rest is just babbling. Wind and solar power are currently non-existent -- if you doubt that -- please tell me where I can compare and purchase solar or wind power making equipment for my home.

I and the rest of American don't live in your personal reality mini-world.

Local gas remains at $3.69.

[JockBoy87]

please tell me where I can compare and purchase solar or wind power making equipment for my home.

Maryland alone has 109 solar companies, and 57 of those are contractors and installers.

My small state produced 22 MW from solar installations two years ago.

I and the rest of American don't live in your personal reality mini-world.

You do know what 'bubble' refers to, right?

[vulgar_newcomer]

Oil companies sell oil to the commodity market where speculators set prices.

You are wasting your time trying to tell this to some people, they don't want to listen, research, & learn. Also the OPEC cartel sets the production level and they control the spigot . If demand falls they decrease production. When demand climbs or peaks for whatever reason such as loss of infrastructural due to possible weak tropical storm, blow out, or global turmoil they may or may not increase production. You are correct production is past prime. The 64 oz big gulp cup which one time only had a few fat hogs sucking it dry is now home to many more fat hogs listening to the gurgling sound at the bottom of the cup, and they continue to keep putting more straws in the tap.



Global prices in the western world are very uniform for product. What seems to confuse many is that state and local taxes are the reason for so much difference in price. There is little difference in the price of the same petro product in Germany or New York. The taxes are the result of various governments. Another factor is transport that adds cost to the final price.

What the right wants is Government control on oil companies, they want nationalized oil industry like Venezuela, Brazil or Mexico has. Isn't it strange they blame the government for the jump in oil prices (Obama), while they scream about too much government? It is ignorance on display. They have no real issue with blaming OPEC, the greedy speculator, or the Oil Companies. These countries which enjoy some of the lowest retail oil prices in the world are hated and vilified by the same people who use them as examples of what they want in the USA.

Further the right has no problem with big corporate mergers which are always approved by Gov. The purpose of a merger is to reduce physical plants and labor. When Amoco merges with BP or EXXON with Mobil it is not to build more refineries and expand. It is to reduce plants and cut labor using a smaller foot print to serve the same market and reduce competition (which isn't there in the first place) while increasing the profit margin.

Then the wing nuts yell " There hasn't been a refinery built in 30 yrs". They will blame it on the government (Obama, environmentalist, regulation)
Which is of course bullshit. The reality is plant capacity may remain the same on paper and remaining facilities have certainly been upgraded and expanded, however many facilities have been closed on purpose. BP is a example with merger after merger they continue to close and shutter production and storage reducing real estate. They did this in the 1980's and 90's with the purchase of GULF Oil, they are still doing it with American Standard (Amoco) properties. They are not unique.

[GiancarloC]

The problem with your argument ... the economy is not getting better -- we had negative growth in the last quarter of 2012.

A total falsehood. There are reports that it will be revised upwards thus invalidating any "negative growth" in the last quarter.

http://www.businessweek.com/articles...imed-to-expand

We've already gone over this... pay attention! The -0.1% was a "one off". It was because of reductions in government spending. The rest of the economy is actually showing signs of growth, and the job market is solid (200,000+ jobs were created in December by the way).

http://www.gallup.com/poll/160613/ec...year-high.aspx

Americans also feel the same about the economy.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2...icit-trade-gap

The US Economy likely expanded slightly in the fourth quarter, according to data on Friday that suggested a surprise drop in GDP reported by the government last week was overstated.

Barclays said even with December's decline in wholesale inventories, GDP likely expanded 0.3 percent in the fourth quarter thanks to the higher export numbers in Friday's trade report.

Sorry but the republican math no longer cuts it. The US economy most likely never declined in the 4th quarter of 2012... rather it expanded by +0.3%. Republicans on here no longer can harp about it as the figure will likely be revised (as is often the case).

I and the rest of American don't live in your personal reality mini-world.

Is that why your political party got handed a massive defeat? Yes, reality check please.

[Jack Springer]

Maryland alone has 109 solar companies, and 57 of those are contractors and installers.

My small state produced 22 MW from solar installations two years ago.



You do know what 'bubble' refers to, right?

Yep -- JB's world is a 'bubble'.

I have yet to see an ad in any of the local papers, on local or national TV with a legitimate solution using solar or wind power for home use.

[Jack Springer]

Massive defeat or a bunch of uninformed voters?

Good try at a spin ... but it doesn't work.

A total falsehood. There are reports that it will be revised upwards thus invalidating any "negative growth" in the last quarter.

http://www.businessweek.com/articles...imed-to-expand

We've already gone over this... pay attention! The -0.1% was a "one off". It was because of reductions in government spending. The rest of the economy is actually showing signs of growth, and the job market is solid (200,000+ jobs were created in December by the way).

http://www.gallup.com/poll/160613/ec...year-high.aspx

Americans also feel the same about the economy.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2...icit-trade-gap

The US Economy likely expanded slightly in the fourth quarter, according to data on Friday that suggested a surprise drop in GDP reported by the government last week was overstated.

Barclays said even with December's decline in wholesale inventories, GDP likely expanded 0.3 percent in the fourth quarter thanks to the higher export numbers in Friday's trade report.

Sorry but the republican math no longer cuts it. The US economy most likely never declined in the 4th quarter of 2012... rather it expanded by +0.3%. Republicans on here no longer can harp about it as the figure will likely be revised (as is often the case).



Is that why your political party got handed a massive defeat? Yes, reality check please.

[Just_Believe18]

The problem with your argument ... the economy is not getting better -- we had negative growth in the last quarter of 2012.

The rest is just babbling. Wind and solar power are currently non-existent -- if you doubt that -- please tell me where I can compare and purchase solar or wind power making equipment for my home.

I and the rest of American don't live in your personal reality mini-world.

Local gas remains at $3.69.

...

You didn't even read my post. Before you accuse me of "babbling," which is dismissively insulting for even making the attempt to treat you seriously, you should actually address the points in my thread.

You brought up the Keystone Pipeline. I explained to you how the Pipeline will not change oil prices because of global demand centering around China and India. You ignored that:
http://www.slate.com/articles/busine...ld_s_oil_.html


Wind and solar power's use in the country has dramatically increased. All you need to do is a simple Google search, Jack_Springer. This is one of the first links to pop up:
http://www.eia.gov/forecasts/steo/report/renew_co2.cfm

EIA currently estimates that wind capacity will increase by 7 percent in 2013 and by 10 percent in 2014. However, electricity generation from wind is projected to increase by 15 percent in 2013, as capacity that came on line at the end of 2012 is available for the entire year in 2013. Wind-powered generation is projected to grow by 8 percent in 2014.

Forecast solar energy continues robust growth, although the total amount remains a small share of total U.S. generation. Projected consumption grows by 33 percent in 2012, 29 percent in 2013, and 30 percent in 2014. Solar energy is not directly affected by the changes in the PTC, but the effect could be indirect as more wind energy is available to meet state renewable portfolio standards.

Overall, my argument explains the abandonment of oil for most of our power needs will spare the United States from an economic chokehold that will paralyze our economy. Wind and solar will be key in providing our electricity while alternative biofuels such as algae fuel can power our cars. Otherwise, we will be paying for high gas prices set by China and India's 2.5 billion population. That is the reality we live in.

[Jack Springer]

You're not reading MY posts.

Show me a link from your local area that promotes solar or wind power for your home.

I dare you.

[Just_Believe18]

Wow, Jack. Wow. You just proved you don't even read posts, you just inflame the discussion. You posted this one minute after I spent 20 minutes analyzing and writing a responsive discussion to your post! It's like you just read the first sentence and skipped the rest! I specifically addressed everything in your last post.

Just_Believe18 - Post #473 8:47PM
Jack Springer - Post #474 8:48PM

[Jack Springer]

Wow, Jack. Wow. You just proved you don't even read posts, you just inflame the discussion. You posted this one minute after I spent 20 minutes analyzing and writing a responsive discussion to your post! It's like you just read the first sentence and skipped the rest! I specifically addressed everything in your last post.

Just_Believe18 - Post #473 8:47PM
Jack Springer - Post #474 8:48PM

... and you still haven't addressed my question to you and GiancarloC . Where is the solar and wind power for residential homes?

I'm not talking about some left wing dream blog or an Obama administration spin piece. I want something real. Is that too much to ask? I'm guessing it is.

[CTF]

CowboyBob, you and GiancarloC need to give it a rest.

How about actually addressing a statement without the personal commentary?

... and you still haven't addressed my question to you and GiancarloC . Where is the solar and wind power for residential homes?

Are you asking why the Government, or a Public Utility hasn't already provided this, or why those out there who are offering those services are restricted from advertising through government bureaucracy?

You know the same groups like ALEC that actually write local, and state legislation.

I'll give you three hints who the biggest contributors to ALEC are, and the first two don't count.

I'm not talking about some left wing dream blog or an Obama administration spin piece. I want something real. Is that too much to ask? I'm guessing it is.

No, you're just asking the wrong questions apparently, and refusing to research it any further.

The "green technology" is out there, and if enough Americans stop sitting on their asses and pissing and moaning about "how Obama isn't fixing shit," it's possible to be pretty self efficient without waiting for an "ad" somewhere.



Back to this thread!

Here in Dallas, Texas today the average price for Regular Unleaded jumped from 3.55 a gallon to 3.71.

Up more than 30 cents per gallon from four weeks ago.

[GiancarloC]

First off... he called all the Obama voters uninformed. And I responded... yet his post remains? There was no personal commentary.

$4.19 for Mobil and 76 here today.

[CTF]

First off... he called all the Obama voters uninformed. And I responded... yet his post remains? There was no personal commentary.

Boo hoo!

Strap on a pair and deal with!

If this is the only place you encounter that message, then I'm sure you can survive.

$4.19 for Mobil and 76 here today.

For regular unleaded?

[GiancarloC]

Oh believe me I do... and I will call him out on that BS.

[CTF]

^ You still didn't answer my last question.

[GiancarloC]

No... it was for diesel... cause I put diesel gas into my regular gas car lol.

Of course it's for regular unleaded.

www.gasbuddy.com works well enough.

[MisterMajestic]

Gas was $3.65 on Sunday night then dropped down to $3.55 Monday morning...So they're Fucking with us on the weekends and cut is a worthless break during the work-week...

I chuckle over the fact that I could pretty much buy a McMansion in Georgia for $300k and that would barely get you 1Ksqft in the Boston area.

Maybe not a Mcmansion but something close to it...A Family recently bought the Beautiful show Home across the street from me that was going for $250...3 levels with 6 bedrooms, 5 Full baths & 1/2...

[crimsonpaine]

Gas was 3.47 on my way home. I think it might have gone down a smidge, but I can't remember what it was before tonight. I just hope it doesn't go up in the morning when I stop in to fill up.

[cgymike]

OMG...just use public transport!

[TX-Beau]

Yeah, what public transport would that be?

[cgymike]

Yeah, what public transport would that be?

Nice!!!!!!!!!

[TX-Beau]

LOL. Never seen one of those.

[cgymike]

The point is guys - stop bitching about gas prices and do something about it like finding alternative ways to commute (or telecommute) etc. Anyway, gas prices are nothing compared to Europe where affectively you pay 8 bucks a gallon or more!

Oh wait ..this is CEP...drama central...nm

[GiancarloC]

Oh yes stop bitching? What alternative ways? The LA MTA is notoriously horrible, and has had its budget cut numerous times. The subway in LA is grossly inadequate and useless. Keep in mind people drive more in the US. Come to LA and try using the public transportation... it'll be one of the most frustrating experiences. Believe me I had to use it for several years and I hated it. The bus system is awful.

It's one of the most poorly thought out systems. In addition, look at how large LA is... it's just not practical.

[JayHawk]

The point is guys - stop bitching about gas prices and do something about it like finding alternative ways to commute (or telecommute) etc. Anyway, gas prices are nothing compared to Europe where affectively you pay 8 bucks a gallon or more!

Oh wait ..this is CEP...drama central...nm

You are quite the amusing human.

Why, pray oh wise one, tell us is Europe's gas price so high? There is no way that in a string of countries much tighter packed than the very spread out america that there socialistic ideas culminated into mass trans that is now paid for by massive taxes on fuel. They could have the same driving economy but it doesn't make sense. Just like mass trans would bankrupt this country. Mass trans doesn't earn a profit or break even anywhere in the united states. Even NYC.... that system is massively subsidized.

I personally like Europe's mass trans but know it would not work in this country. Every medium sized city that has installed a trolley car for navigating downtown has pretty much eaten the cost and then saw almost zero usage. This isnt Europe so please try and get over it.

And oh yeah in a non socialist country where we don't pay for everything from diapers to adult diapers and everything in between, we are completely entitled to complain about gas prices rising magically with no specific market forces. Especially since we are running the market. The only reason I can see is the fact that the Dow hit a five year high at fourteen thousand.

Still your ignorance of the nature of the USA and the fuel pricing situation is alarming. Have great morning on the bus.

[Jack Springer]

^ You still didn't answer my last question.

... and he still hasn't answered my question.

I paid $3.66 early this morning -- wanted a full tank before 'Q' hit.

[GiancarloC]

What question is that? Tell me... and let it be not a loaded question.

[Kulindahr]

Wind and solar power are currently non-existent -- if you doubt that -- please tell me where I can compare and purchase solar or wind power making equipment for my home.
.

I doubt I'm imagining the hundreds of wind turbines out on the prairies in Oregon, or the thousands in California.

As for buying such things, I can go to any of four local electrical supply stores, builders supply stores, and even sporting goods stores for solar gadgets, and the farm store for a wind generator suitable for my power needs. So what part of nowhere do you live in?

[Jack Springer]

What question is that? Tell me... and let it be not a loaded question.

"Where is the solar and wind power for residential homes?"

I've asked the question in several posts. Give me a link or show me an ad.

[Jack Springer]

I doubt I'm imagining the hundreds of wind turbines out on the prairies in Oregon, or the thousands in California.

As for buying such things, I can go to any of four local electrical supply stores, builders supply stores, and even sporting goods stores for solar gadgets, and the farm store for a wind generator suitable for my power needs. So what part of nowhere do you live in?

Where can I buy a solar or wind powered system for my home?

Show me an ad from TV or a newspaper.

[Kulindahr]

Yep -- JB's world is a 'bubble'.

I have yet to see an ad in any of the local papers, on local or national TV with a legitimate solution using solar or wind power for home use.

I'd say you're closing your eyes. There are ads in the Oregonian and the Statesman, Oregon's two largest papers, for solar shingles, solar panels, solar sheeting, solar water heaters, and more on a fairly regular basis. If they're here, they're in the bigger urban areas, especially ones with more sunlight than western Oregon.

[GiancarloC]

"Where is the solar and wind power for residential homes?"

I've asked the question in several posts. Give me a link or show me an ad.

Come to California please.

http://www.energy.ca.gov/wind/overview.html

I'll give you a guided tour. You pay for gas lol.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Gor...Pass_Wind_Farm

And many of these wind farms are not a new thing... they have been around for decades. They generate a great deal of power... a lot that power goes to homes. Certainly better than that leaking reactor at San Onofre.

http://www.gosolarcalifornia.ca.gov/

We lead the nation in solar panel installation too... whether it is for homeowners or larger facilities that generate wide spread power. Almost 1500 MWs state wide. I'm not sure if the subsidies and rebates are still in effect for homeowners... but I believe they are.

[Kulindahr]

... and you still haven't addressed my question to you and GiancarloC . Where is the solar and wind power for residential homes?

If the "top 100" homes for sales posting down at one of the local real estate agencies is to be believed, some fourteen percent of local properties for sale are outfitted with solar and/or wind. It's a big selling point.

[Kulindahr]

OMG...just use public transport!

I have better things to do than wait for a bus that comes by once every ninety minutes, costs $4 for a ride, and frequently doesn't get to my destination faster than I can bike it -- and costs twice as much or more than driving.