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  1. #1
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    Why should men pay child support if they choose not to?

    Feminists are legitimately concerned that, if abortion were banned, the government would be exercising control over a very intimate and important part of a woman's life. But when a woman forces a man to be responsible for a child only she wants, and when the state child-support apparatus takes a third or more of his income and jails him if he comes up short, isn't the government exercising control over his life?
    30 Years After Roe v. Wade, How About Choice for Men?


    This is really true!!

  2. #2
    🌈❤️ June26, 2015 ❤️🌈 JUB Moderator Seasoned's Avatar
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    Re: Why should men pay child support if they choose not to?

    There is a choice for men. If a guy chooses vaginal sex the assumption needs to be that he may be paying child support for 18 years. It makes sense to be that there's shared consequences. Let's face it if it were men who got pregnant not many of us would be here.
    "Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind."--Dr. Seuss

  3. #3
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    Re: Why should men pay child support if they choose not to?

    I think the OP makes a valid point.

    I understand a woman's right to choose and agree that it is necessary. However, I believe that one parent's insistence in keeping a largely unwanted child should alleviate some* legal responsibility for the unwilling other parent.

    Flame away.

    -d-
    *A flexible amount; I'm willing to entertain options

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    Re: Why should men pay child support if they choose not to?

    Quote Originally Posted by KrisHawkXXX View Post
    ... Says the ovary-less, gay man.
    #439th oldest member on JUB.

  5. #5

    Re: Why should men pay child support if they choose not to?

    Well, the guy's choice was whether or not he should fuck the girl as Seasoned said. If you're willing to fuck, you better help some part with the responsibilities. Raising a child with little to no child support...that must be difficult. Otherwise just get a fleshlight or something. And if that's expensive, invest in birth control.
    Quote Originally Posted by Saybrooke View Post
    I was at the gym once, and this woman was on the elliptical next to me, making motorcycle noises.

  6. #6
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    Re: Why should men pay child support if they choose not to?

    On the assumption that this OP is serious: if you have children, intended or not, you should foot the bill. What right have you to make me subsidize its upbringing.

  7. #7

    Re: Why should men pay child support if they choose not to?

    Nope. The men should have to pay child support. It's not like these women went to a sperm bank to have children. The reason these men don't want to pay child support is because they feel it's the woman's fault they got pregnant. It's all cool to bust a nut in a woman's vagina, but dear God if she would become pregnant, she's on her own. These so call men think it's okay to knock every hot girl the get with, but when children are in the picture, these cowards make a run for it. I 100% agree men who willingly have unprotected sex with a woman and leave them to be responsible for paying child support for THEIR child. The only way a man shouldn't be responsible if a woman either pays him to get her pregnant or goes to a spern bank to become pregnant.
    Eternal youth and endless life. I'll sacrifice everything and everyone to obtain it

  8. #8
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    Re: Why should men pay child support if they choose not to?

    You know who probably has some interesting thoughts on this matter? Bulge.

    Lex

  9. #9
    ...is no hippie Harke the Boeotarch's Avatar
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    Re: Why should men pay child support if they choose not to?

    If they don't pay the rest of us will have to pick up the bill.

  10. #10

    Re: Why should men pay child support if they choose not to?

    I think a lot of the people commenting didn't fully read the article. There was no suggestion that a guy can carelessly fuck who he wants and just walk away leaving the woman to bring up the child alone. If a guy is responsible and uses the only feasible option of contraception (a condom) and it fails then he is doomed to 18 yrs of financial responsbility if the woman wants to have the child. This seems fair, it was his decision to fuck and he has to accept the consequences (though he took all responsbile measures i.e. safe sex). However if a woman forgets her contraceptive pill and gets pregnant, she gets the choice of being able to walk away from all parental responsbility. Is it fair that the man gets absolutely no choice and is burdened with parental and financial responsbility for a child that was never planned because his condom broke when a woman can just have an abortion and be free?

    I'm not saying I agree but its an interesting viewpoint.

  11. #11
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    Re: Why should men pay child support if they choose not to?

    The question of choice, in the context of Roe v Wade, is the choice over your body... not over the consequences of your actions. A woman has the right to choose whether or not to remain pregnant; a man's choice of what to do with his body ends when the sperm leaves it and enters the woman.

    Both parties are responsible for preventing pregnancy, but only the woman can choose whether or not to carry that pregnancy to term; and both parties are legally responsible for any children resulting from that union, just as both parties are responsible for any STDs that are transmitted during that union. If the man wants the child, and the woman does not want to carry it, her choice trumps because it's her body. But that weighted authority over the pregnancy does not relieve the man of his responsibility if the child is carried to term. Half that DNA is his, and in all fairness he has to help support it if it lives.

    Children, like STDs, are the risk you take when you have sex; even the best contraceptives are only 99.9% effective, so you're spinning the wheel and taking your chances whenever you stick sperm and eggs anywhere near each-other. If one wants to guarantee one's self free of the burden of children or STDs, one can only abstain from heterosexual genital coitus; and if that's not reasonable, each partner must take whatever preventive measures they reasonably can; but if there's an accident, it belongs to you both.

    * Question the Dominant Paradigm *

  12. #12
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    Re: Why should men pay child support if they choose not to?

    maybe wen men is eva be a men they manage tie own shoes befor shit in um haaaa

    ans females get move on ya woozys

    there go giv humans of twat lands sumthang ta do fa 21 st century

    yawn

    his ans hers condoms on spacestation how cute
    % aww ans little picture ofs spacestation print it %
    @ dat sweet @
    no forgat pack their milk bottles cause
    ! AYE AYE! !

    ha

  13. #13
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    Re: Why should men pay child support if they choose not to?

    Quote Originally Posted by KrisHawkXXX View Post
    See I could see that working if a) the guy was raped, or b) the woman intentionally lied/tricked him into getting her pregnant....

    Otherwise, its about taking responsibility for your actions. Plain and simple, and you're responsibilities shouldn't become the responsibilities of other taxpayers.

  14. #14
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    Re: Why should men pay child support if they choose not to?

    It is grotesquely unfair. Unless a man has consented to paternity of a child that is not biologically his, by way of adoption, he should bear no liability. And he should be entitled to compensation froma lying or deceptive mother if paternity is revealed after the fact.

    Also, responsible men can control their fertility autonomously as well as women. If a man does not want to pass on a genetic disorder and a woman agrees to this and hey mutually agree to terminate an affected fetus, she cannot be permitted to retroactively overrule his consent by changing her mind. At the very least he should bear no obligations to such a child, but I'm not sure why the mother should have custody either given her gross capacity for betrayal and deception.

  15. #15
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: Why should men pay child support if they choose not to?

    My reply to that would be if you don't want a child, don't put your penis in a woman. You dint even need birth control for that strategy to work. That should cover it for most cases. I do think men need better defined rights for the extremes and the unusual situations.

  16. #16
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    Re: Why should men pay child support if they choose not to?

    If a man is unwilling to pay child support when he is able to, there must be other issues too. We seem to hear about men paying child support yet having very little access to the child he is help raising financially. Too often, the conflicting interests of the biological parents get in the way of actual care for the child. If one party is unwilling to give access yet demand maintenance from the child's other parent, this imbalance also will affect the child's upbringing, and ultimately how he/she views his parents to come. It is demoralising to see humans at their worst using their children as pawns and bargaining chips.


  17. #17
    THE FLIRT JUB Moderator ronboy's Avatar
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    Re: Why should men pay child support if they choose not to?

    Kris, I read the article, and I have to say, it didn't change my mind.

    Anytime one person agrees to sex with another (regardless of sexual orientation), there are certain risks and pitfalls that are associated with that. If it is straight sex, STDs and pregnancy are a real danger. In gay sex, STDs are still there. I see others making the argument about condoms not being there, and how some cultures don't allow their usage.

    Call me old fashioned, but I think that each person has control over their sexual destinies. It's easy for me to preach "self control" when I am not the one in the situation, but it's also a conscious choice. I can choose to fornicate with someone, or choose not to. I can choose to use a condom, or choose not to. Granted, there are situations of sexual acts of violence, where there is no choice on one partner's behalf. In those cases, nobody should be forced to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term. But I do believe in the concept of "manning up." If you take the risk to have sex and the result is pregnancy, then it is your responsibility to step up and support the child financially, even if you are not ready to commit to it emotionally. If I were straight, I would be even pickier than I am as a gay man, with who I'd have sex with.....

    Thanks, my friend, for bringing this subject up. You made me think tonight...


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  18. #18
    Look Away To The Moon. MoufOfKhaos's Avatar
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    Re: Why should men pay child support if they choose not to?

    I laughed.

    Of course a man should pay child support if he fathers a child. He was willing to gamble.

    You don't get to take back your bet in a real poker game if you legitimately lose.
    "Thereís death on the horizon,

    and Iíll run to behold your sacrifice..."

  19. #19
    Look Away To The Moon. MoufOfKhaos's Avatar
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    Re: Why should men pay child support if they choose not to?

    Quote Originally Posted by mitchymo View Post
    If you can give away your children at no cost, then one parent should have the right not to be involved AT NO COST (provided that was the position prior to the birth).
    You can't always give away your child at no cost, nor should there be carte blanche for a man to help with procreation without sharing responsibility for that action. If you can't care for a child don't have it - that hatchet swings both ways at both parties at all times. It's sad that people seem to think child support is "free money"; it's equally sad when some people use it as such, and they, just like deadbeat sperm donors(we'll not call them fathers, because if they were child support would be "dad helping to raise his seed"), should be punished.

    If that one woman decides to have a child on her own... that's an entirely different story, done in a totally different way. I'm just talking about guys that wanna get laid and end up fathering a kid and don't want to be responsible.
    "Thereís death on the horizon,

    and Iíll run to behold your sacrifice..."

  20. #20
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    Re: Why should men pay child support if they choose not to?

    "It's not fair! Wah-wah-wah!" When men can carry the child, too, then it will be fair.

    As it is, you stick your dick in a cooch and you're taking a chance on creating a child. Your let your sperm out, you no longer have rights over it; the woman hasn't let the egg out, she still has rights over it, whether to have it removed or carry it to term.

    People keep harping on women having a "get out of jail free" card with abortion. But I can assure you that in all but the most extraordinarily depraved cases, the decision to have an abortion is not only incredibly difficult, but it will haunt you for the rest of your life. It is not something women do lightly, so just put that out of your mind. Neither is giving a child up for adoption. No man has any right to say what a woman should or shouldn't do, because he doesn't have that choice to make, he doesn't get to carry the child, he doesn't have to go through the pain and hormonal changes and the post-partum depression, and so he doesn't get to abort the child or give the child up.

    The man only has to ejaculate, and so he only gets to take responsibility for his half of the conception... and if that conception goes through, he should help bring that child up. That is as fair as life gets.

    * Question the Dominant Paradigm *

  21. #21
    Look Away To The Moon. MoufOfKhaos's Avatar
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    Re: Why should men pay child support if they choose not to?

    Quote Originally Posted by mitchymo View Post
    How does such a guys position, bear any influence on a womans decision to keep the baby? Surely, such a guys decision would more likely have influence over a womans decision to abort or have the baby adopted.
    He helped to cause that baby to happen, did he not? It can't all fall on the woman because it may or may not have been a fling, and if she doesn't keep the child, whether by abortion or adoption, then what are we arguing about here?

    Why do men need to be equal in the aftermath when they can choose not to father the child in the first place? If you don't want to be responsible for raising a life, be responsible enough not to create one. Yes, I realize that i've evidently said "don't gamble" twice, but it really is that simple - use a condom, take precautions, don't bang random girls you can't trust.

    And women DON'T have all the rights - if they did there wouldn't have to be laws ensuring that men would take responsibility for their actions; men are paying for the mistakes of other who decided what you're suggesting - that they wanted nothing to do with it at all, emotionally AND financially. My feelings for kids having dads aside(I would rather have one loving parent than one that felt he was being lead by a leash to see me, personally), the other is a shitty way to be.
    "Thereís death on the horizon,

    and Iíll run to behold your sacrifice..."

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    Re: Why should men pay child support if they choose not to?

    i think we should remove all support from a lot of groups, i consider myself liberal but we have to teach responsibility not dependency.

    im also pro life, i think women using "its my body" as an excuse is too convenient.

    yes we do have personal liberty but i think men are suffering as a whole because of their diminished role in their childrens lives which you could argue is made worse by allowing less-than-rational precedences currently in place.

    if you chose to have a child, your having a child. grow up and take some responsibility. its not up to the state to raise your child.


  23. #23
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: Why should men pay child support if they choose not to?

    The article does lead me to think of several anomalies affecting parental rights and responsibilities.

    As long as one parent is responsible enough to care for the child, the other parent is obligated to a lifetime of support. If both parents are simultaneously unfit parents, or even if they just don't want to be parents, they can give the child up for adoption and they'll have no further obligations toward it as son as it is a ward of the state.

    That's is convenient for some couples who may not be ready for parenthood, but not for situations where only one parent sees it that way. Too bad; they're trapped. The parent who wants to make a go of it has a veto over the adoption and an automatic right to a lifetime of support.

    Finally, the mother can abort as a matter of convenience during the pregnancy but never the father. If the man woman aborted at 4 months because she decided motherhood didn't suit her lifestyle, the man would be powerless to prevent it. If the woman delivered the baby and then abandoned it to the father he'd also be stuck. There is no consideration made in society or the law to protect his interests. He ha no choice but to make the right decision for his future at the time of conception. The mother can dither and dawdle and hold all the cards over the next several months. It's unfair that we do nothing to balance the situation.

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    Re: Why should men pay child support if they choose not to?

    Quote Originally Posted by ronboy View Post
    Kris, I read the article, and I have to say, it didn't change my mind.

    Anytime one person agrees to sex with another (regardless of sexual orientation), there are certain risks and pitfalls that are associated with that. If it is straight sex, STDs and pregnancy are a real danger. In gay sex, STDs are still there. I see others making the argument about condoms not being there, and how some cultures don't allow their usage.

    Call me old fashioned, but I think that each person has control over their sexual destinies. It's easy for me to preach "self control" when I am not the one in the situation, but it's also a conscious choice. I can choose to fornicate with someone, or choose not to. I can choose to use a condom, or choose not to. Granted, there are situations of sexual acts of violence, where there is no choice on one partner's behalf. In those cases, nobody should be forced to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term. But I do believe in the concept of "manning up." If you take the risk to have sex and the result is pregnancy, then it is your responsibility to step up and support the child financially, even if you are not ready to commit to it emotionally. If I were straight, I would be even pickier than I am as a gay man, with who I'd have sex with.....

    Thanks, my friend, for bringing this subject up. You made me think tonight...
    yes men should pay but that doesnt mean women should have the right to take away a mans child. its half his, and i would never even consider sex with a woman whom i thought would have an abortion.


  25. #25
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    Re: Why should men pay child support if they choose not to?

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    The article does lead me to think of several anomalies affecting parental rights and responsibilities.

    As long as one parent is responsible enough to care for the child, the other parent is obligated to a lifetime of support. If both parents are simultaneously unfit parents, or even if they just don't want to be parents, they can give the child up for adoption and they'll have no further obligations toward it as son as it is a ward of the state.

    That's is convenient for some couples who may not be ready for parenthood, but not for situations where only one parent sees it that way. Too bad; they're trapped. The parent who wants to make a go of it has a veto over the adoption and an automatic right to a lifetime of support.

    Finally, the mother can abort as a matter of convenience during the pregnancy but never the father. If the man woman aborted at 4 months because she decided motherhood didn't suit her lifestyle, the man would be powerless to prevent it. If the woman delivered the baby and then abandoned it to the father he'd also be stuck. There is no consideration made in society or the law to protect his interests. He ha no choice but to make the right decision for his future at the time of conception. The mother can dither and dawdle and hold all the cards over the next several months. It's unfair that we do nothing to balance the situation.
    quoted for truth. and men are suffering because of their diminished role in their children's lives as a result. if a boy doesnt have a father do you really expect him to be better off without?


  26. #26
    The Baroness of Bling
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    Re: Why should men pay child support if they choose not to?

    So let me get this straight: because a woman has a right to choose to not have the child, the man has the right to choose to not support the child. He can choose to be responsible or not for an actual live person whom he had an integral part in creating. Since he doesn't have the right to stop it from happening after it's gotten started, he shouldn't have any responsibility for it if it goes through. You only have responsibility for your actions if you wish to?

    That's not how life works.

    I know that the child support laws in this nation are skewed and sometimes bizarre; I know that men sometimes get "trapped" by women who've assured them that they're on the pill and it's OK to have unprotected sex (that's why my parents got married, after all). But these are pretty small compared to the number of men who have agreed to support children they've fathered and then don't.

    But look... the act of childbearing is unfair in and of itself: only a woman has to carry it. The man's part of the act of creation is a few minutes, the woman's part is nine months and then some. There is absolutely no way of equalizing that imbalance; and therefore there is no way of equalizing the roles when it comes to choice of remaining pregnant and choice of supporting a child you caused to happen. The woman will always have the greater degree of choice because she bears the greater workload in creation; while both parties are equally responsible for conception, only the woman can be responsible for gestating the result of that conception. She therefore has the greater choice.

    But having less choice in gestation does not relieve the man of responsibility for his half of the conception.

    * Question the Dominant Paradigm *

  27. #27
    mamůnes Taz's Avatar
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    Re: Why should men pay child support if they choose not to?

    I am SO glad I'm gay lol.

    My friends have talked to me about their pregnancy scares before. I wouldn't want to deal with that.

    Mind you when the time comes that I want kids I'll probably feel differently

  28. #28
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    Re: Why should men pay child support if they choose not to?

    The item that is complete crap is Alimony. A man should pay for what he brings into this world. But why should he pay to maintain the lifestyle of an unfaithful twat?

    Meh.

    Society can not afford to pay for all of the children that the women would choose to keep with no means. The solution is to charge them a fine for neglect.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  29. #29
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    Re: Why should men pay child support if they choose not to?

    I actually had a discussion about this with a feminist friend of mine. I told her that it should be possible if the guy doesn't want the child yet the woman wants it for the man to get out of paying child support...

  30. #30
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    Re: Why should men pay child support if they choose not to?

    I have read a few comments, and I must say, I think a large majority of you guys are missing the point.

    OPs intention was this:

    Abortion is a complex issue and must be thought of from all angles.

    What if the mom wants the baby and the dad doesn't?
    What if the dad wants the baby and the mom doesn't?
    What if neither want the baby?

    In the second scenario, it is the most common, because the male has ABSOLUTELY NO CHOICE as to whether or not the baby will be born. In all pro abortion laws, they fail to acknowledge that there may be an emotional attachment for the father once he finds out that he is a future father. Why should the woman be the sole decision maker in this scenario?

    Feminists have been claiming that it's their body and they should be able to choose what happens with it. To which, anti-abortionists usually reply, don't have sex. To which, they reply, it's our right to have sex with whomever we please. Why can't this same argument be used for the man? The man should be able to have sex with whomever he pleases. And if contraception doesn't work, as many feminists use in their argument, why does the male have to be legally obligated to support something he didn't want in the first place whereas the woman, if she so pleases, has the choice to not?

    I am playing devils advocate here, as I will probably never have to worry about this in my lifetime. But they are completely legitimate questions to ask.

    I hope what I wrote made sense. I am sort of falling asleep while typing.

  31. #31
    blackbeltninja
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    Re: Why should men pay child support if they choose not to?

    I'll admit I thought I'd be getting hellfire and brimstone for my post; glad to see there are likeminded JUBbers out there.

    Further to Swellegant's post re the emotional issues around abortion, I agree fully - it must be an incredibly difficult decision and one which has a lot of second-guessing attached to it. I'd like to suggest that this is true for the father as well.

    I'm not sure complete absolution for the father is a good idea - I think it probably is easier for a guy to insist on an abortion than it is for a woman to even think about it, so saying that these are options (and of course they are) does not make it as emotionally easy as buying a loaf of bread, even though physically it probably is.

    I would suggest that a significantly diminished financial role for the father should exist - not an even 50-50 split (or whatever the current ratio is; no idea how it is determined) if the father is suggesting ending the pregnancy and the mother insists on carrying the child to term. However, because if you watch enough Springer/Mathis/Cheaters you realise there are these guys who have 10 illegitimate children running around with 10 different mothers, the ratio is shifted the other way for each additional child to prevent this sort of thing from happening and prevent abuse the system.

    It's basically like a 1-use-only get out of jail half-free card. By the time you hit illegitimate kid #2 that you don't want, you get a ton of bricks dropped on you financially and are legally obliged to support BOTH children equally along with the support from their mothers. I would also attach a court order to the payment so it comes off the guy's salary automatically before he gets paid. The first accidental pregnancy is an accident; every subsequent one is simply neglectful, I reckon.

    Interesting thread.

    -d-

  32. #32
    Is the King of JUB Beachguyj's Avatar
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    Re: Why should men pay child support if they choose not to?

    Quote Originally Posted by KrisHawkXXX View Post

    Obviously you are joking. At least I hope you are.
    In his autumn, before the winter, comes man's last mad surge of youth

  33. #33
    dances atop the bellcurve fetaby's Avatar
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    Re: Why should men pay child support if they choose not to?

    Glad to see life being reduced to a financial burden. Society is surely improving.
    Please do not apologize for your opinion.

  34. #34
    blackbeltninja
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    Re: Why should men pay child support if they choose not to?

    ^I think you'd find that if people ran their lives like successful businesses were run, we'd be in a lot less mess than we are.

    -d-

  35. #35
    Match in the gas tank...
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    Re: Why should men pay child support if they choose not to?

    Because formula, huggies, food is expensive as shit that's why. A depressive single mother cannot do it by herself. She needs the help of the idiot that refuses to be a good father figure.
    Glass Half Empty, Glass Half Full
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  36. #36

    Re: Why should men pay child support if they choose not to?

    No matter what misogynist conservatives and Men's Rights goons tell you, there isn't a conspiracy of women looking to get knocked up so that they can have a dedicated income source for 18 years. Getting pregnant for a woman, especially if there isn't a pre-existing legal arrangement like marriage or common law marriage, is one of the riskiest situations she can find herself in when it comes to long-term financial stability.

    Contraception does fail. Women who have no intention of being mothers find themselves pregnant. And they didn't get that way by themselves.

  37. #37
    blackbeltninja
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    Re: Why should men pay child support if they choose not to?

    Quote Originally Posted by StarCrasher View Post
    I can't believe some of the posts I'm reading.

    The man does have a choice. He can cover with a wrapper before he uses that zapper.
    The woman has no choice, of course.

    She couldn't possibly even contemplate using female condoms, combined or single compound contraceptive pills, vaginal rings, intrauterine devices, slow-release implants or patches, diaphragms, or of course the Morning After Pill.

    Fact is, even in the face of all this, if Accidents Happen - and they do - there is still the option to abort. Should one party refuse to consider that option while the other party is willing to do so, I'm not sure the other party should be (entirely) liable.

    -d-

  38. #38
    dances atop the bellcurve fetaby's Avatar
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    Re: Why should men pay child support if they choose not to?

    Quote Originally Posted by blackbeltninja View Post
    ^I think you'd find that if people ran their lives like successful businesses were run, we'd be in a lot less mess than we are.

    -d-
    Do you really want to open that can of worms?
    Please do not apologize for your opinion.

  39. #39
    dances atop the bellcurve fetaby's Avatar
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    Re: Why should men pay child support if they choose not to?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard-up1 View Post
    Yeah, but on the plus side, as gay men, we'd enjoy a lot more Grand Openings!

    A successful business only has one grand opening... unless you're talking about the cans of worms and they just have worms inside.
    Please do not apologize for your opinion.

  40. #40
    dances atop the bellcurve fetaby's Avatar
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    Re: Why should men pay child support if they choose not to?

    Treating a human life as nothing more than a financial obligation or a sperm repository is, IMO, the reason for many of the ills our societies face.

    We can't even contemplate the successful navigation for the continuation of our species because we're too busy arguing over who is going to be left holding the bag.

    If there any out there,

    Please do not apologize for your opinion.

  41. #41
    blackbeltninja
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    Re: Why should men pay child support if they choose not to?

    Quote Originally Posted by fetaby View Post
    Do you really want to open that can of worms?
    Yes. Yes I do.

    Note use of term "successful", a nice and safely vague-enough term to protect my statement.

    -d-

  42. #42
    blackbeltninja
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    Re: Why should men pay child support if they choose not to?

    Quote Originally Posted by fetaby View Post
    Treating a human life as nothing more than a financial obligation or a sperm repository is, IMO, the reason for many of the ills our societies face.
    Really? You think these citizens of third world countries with starving over-populations and the GDP of a small US-neighbourhood 7-11 should think even LESS about the financial implications of having 13 children and expecting governments and foreign donations to come to the rescue?

    Really?

    How is that even dumb animals, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay down the evolutionary and mental ladders from Man, know that breeding season only occurs during times of plenty and we as the superior beings haven't yet done the maths on that, or have and choose to ignore the obvious?

    Quote Originally Posted by fetaby View Post
    We can't even contemplate the successful navigation for the continuation of our species because we're too busy arguing over who is going to be left holding the bag.
    Continuation of our species is the least of your worries. People will always be having babies, whether or not they/we/government/the planet can afford and sustain it. This single-minded need on their part to continue our species come Hell or high water will probably result in both, one way or the other.

    -d-

  43. #43

    Re: Why should men pay child support if they choose not to?

    Double post.

  44. #44

    Re: Why should men pay child support if they choose not to?

    A man so opposed to shouldering his share of the economic and child-rearing duties of parenthood is free to have a vasectomy. In fact, it is an outpatient procedure, affordable and covered by most medical insurance, and does not require any kind of an age limit - as opposed to women seeking a tubal ligation who are usually refused by both doctors and insurance companies until they either have an existing child or reach an arbitrary age limit, usually in the 30s.

    If a man is so opposed to being "trapped" by a woman, he should get the snip. Until then, he is legally and ethically liable for his participation in creating a child, and is no real man if he abdicates his responsibility.

  45. #45
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    Re: Why should men pay child support if they choose not to?

    The only thing worse than the man who would not want to support the child he helped to create is the man who would not want to know his child. Whether or not he wanted the child is beside the point. The child is here now, do the right thing, not only for the child but for yourself. How could anyone not want to be involved with his own flesh and blood?
    Everyone wants to be heard. No one wants to listen.

  46. #46

    Re: Why should men pay child support if they choose not to?

    It is critical that both parents be obligated to support the child. If he participated by sex the father should not be able to escape that duty by demanding that she kill the child, BUT it should not be so generous as to become ex-wife support. The children should not live in poverty but if the father is wealthy the wife and child should have no legal right to share the luxury. The wife should not be given an incentive to divorce.

  47. #47
    WTF????? refujiunderground's Avatar
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    Re: Why should men pay child support if they choose not to?

    the whole matter boils down to how much a parent loves their child enough to be around for them in their life. just because you pay child support doesn't mean that you care about your child. how much time you invest in your child is more important than how much money you invest on them. kids always remember how much time their parents are involved in their lives. they know when mommy and daddy actually gives a fuck about them and when they don't give a fuck about them. there's plenty of fathers that pay child support on time that don't even spend a minute with their kids. hell, you can even live with your kids and still not be in their life. child support goes beyond $
    one thing about the closet/you don't have to hurry/it will be bad tomorrow/so brother, don't you worry

  48. #48
    Are u haleloo ya ? Telstra's Avatar
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    Re: Why should men pay child support if they choose not to?

    Quote Originally Posted by Seasoned View Post
    There is a choice for men. If a guy chooses vaginal sex the assumption needs to be that he may be paying child support for 18 years. It makes sense to be that there's shared consequences. Let's face it if it were men who got pregnant not many of us would be here.
    I disagree.
    If a man or woman not living with their kids, they don't need to pay anything if they choose.
    Because when the kids become adults they don't know their parents, they are not going to help their parents 1 cent.


    NEVER LISTEN TO A ONE SIDED STORY AND JUDGE.

  49. #49
    JUB Addict FanofFiction's Avatar
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    Re: Why should men pay child support if they choose not to?

    Men can have a procedure done to prevent their ability to get a girl pregnant. Think of it as a man's right to choose. It's like pre-abortion. If you don't want to use condoms, if you aren't responsible enough to make sure she is telling the truth about being on the pill, if you don't want to pull out before you jizz... get a vasectomy. That's your right to choose guys. If you don't take any precautions at all and she gets pregnant... well, it's your responsibility. I totally agree a man should have to pay child support.

  50. #50
    Are u haleloo ya ? Telstra's Avatar
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    Re: Why should men pay child support if they choose not to?

    Its not black and white.
    A man/woman should not have to pay for child support if they don't want to
    because they have their reasons and its non of our business to judge them.


    Bring in lawyers for a personal disagreement between partners is not right.


    NEVER LISTEN TO A ONE SIDED STORY AND JUDGE.

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