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  1. #51
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    Re: Why Obama doesn't support gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by opinterph View Post
    First 100 days? I donít remember him making commitments to end DOMA, DADT, or pass ENDA within the first 100 days. Do you recall when/where he made these commitments?
    He made the commitments in meetings with gay community leaders.

    Obama betrays gay community.
    Obama hasn't kept his promises.
    Obama Inaction on Promises
    Obama's gay rights gap

    There is a lot more out there.

  2. #52
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    Re: Why Obama doesn't support gay marriage

    If you believe in things like "black communities" and "white communities," the black community would rather sweep its homophobic crackpots under the rug in the same way the white community would rather politely ignore its racist crackpots.

    One flawed poll is not proof of homophobia. But for exactly the same reason, it doesn't prove that a group of black people is just as okay with my equality as a group of white people.

    So in one of those links above I end up reading this "analysis" of the Prop 8 thing
    http://www.theatlantic.com/entertain...-polling/6568/

    Ta-Nehisi Coates points out the flawed polling then dances around the issue saying oh it isn't black people, it's just churchgoers in the black church. It isn't black people, it's just that blacks "are, on the whole, more socially conservative." It isn't black people because they are "pro-common man" just not "pro-gay rights." It isn't black people because they wouldn't vote for a republican, just for a republican-endorsed anti-gay ballot measure.

    In other words, it isn't black people, it's just black people…

    But he even gets that wrong. The problem is not black people. The problem is black homophobes. And the hypocrite black community leaders, thinkers, and activists who rev up their outrage whenever anyone calls them on it. They'd defend the homophobes for the sake of keeping up appearances and they have an idea that "the black community" must always have a united front, even if that bus rolls over a few gay people along the way.

    I've said this before: I believe in individuals. To the degree that people want to stick together and make a community, for historical, social, geographical, cultural, or whatever reasons, we are all welcome to do that. But once you say you're part of a community, you own what it does. And no amount of dancing around will change that.

    The Mormon community owns Prop 8. The black church community owns Prop 8. And the hypocrite writers trying to defend the mess own Prop 8 and all the homophobia therein.

    Seriously this is like watching all the Fox News commentators in the Trayvon case saying "Shhhhh!!!! Don't mention the racism and it will go away!!!"
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

  3. #53
    ecce homo rareboy's Avatar
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    Re: Why Obama doesn't support gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by PrivateTimm View Post
    Sorry, but the "evidence" you cite is from a source with an obvious bias.

    CNN has no vested interest in reporting the facts one way or another. Their exit poll was accurate and extensive.

    What percent African Americans are in the state of CA is less relevant than what the turnout rate was for the vote. African Americans had historically high turnout rates because Obama was on the ballot. Even at the 7% number, that is still almost a million votes. If all 95% of African Americans who voted for Obama had voted no on Prop 8 because he campaigned against it, it would not have passed.
    Boy. You really do rely on the low information voter don't you.

    All CNN did was run with the La Times story and fluff it up some.

    Show me the actual CNN exit poll done by their on the ground 'reporters' sited at a variety of polling areas across the state. You can't.

    And the Haas Foundation has a bias? Prove it.

    And now you are saying that 95% of the blacks voted for Prop 8? Do you always just pull this kind of nonsense directly from your fundament?

    And if all the white mormons who voted against it had not, it probably would have passed.

    If all the religious Latinos, who make up a much bigger percentage of the California population and voted in the same percentage as the blacks for Prop 8 had not voted for it it, it would not have passed.

    Your idea that the blacks voted en bloc for Prop 8 because Obama was on the ballot is not only naive, it is proven wrong. I don't know why you feel compelled to lay this at the door of blacks, but your agenda doesn't look pretty from here.

    [Text: Removed by Moderator]
    Last edited by opinterph; March 26th, 2012 at 04:41 PM. Reason: removed baiting remarks/personal insult

  4. #54
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    Re: Why Obama doesn't support gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by PrivateTimm View Post
    We have DOMA and DADT because of Democrats. It was a gay Republican group that sued and got DADT thrown out. The Democrats jumped on after the bus left the station.
    It was Barack Obama and the democrats who got it thrown out. It wasn't a gay republican group. Let me explain why, republicans in general were in favor of keeping the bill. They can't take credit for that. Lets not give credit to a political party that has stood in the way of DADT being repealed.

    CA is the most Democrat state in the country. There isn't a single Republican in statewide office, Obama won by over 3 million votes in CA and Prop 8 won by 600,000. If Obama had come out strongly against Prop 8 he only needed to get 1 in 10 of his supporters to switch from Yes to No to keep it from passing, but he said in his meeting with Rick Warren that he believed marriage was between a man and a woman, that he didn't believe in gay marriage.
    Again, that's distorting things. The No on 8 campaign was quite ineffective and its political advertisements, particularly those on television, fell short. Spanish ads were also lacking. He did come out against Proposition 8. Then you make the claim that 1 in 10 of his supporters switching would have made a difference. You don't have any proof for that. There were still large numbers of republicans voting for Meg Whitman, and most of them voted in favor of Prop 8.

    Your claim about African American voters is also wrong, and I already went into why with another poster.

    Read all the excuses in here for Obama as to why they understand why Obama CAN'T support gay marriage. He can but he WON'T.
    He could very well after the election, but it remains that he is still the most pro-gay president that has ever been in office, and certainly more then any republican.

  5. #55
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Why Obama doesn't support gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by PrivateTimm View Post
    He made the commitments in meetings with gay community leaders.

    Obama betrays gay community.
    Obama hasn't kept his promises.
    Obama Inaction on Promises
    Obama's gay rights gap

    There is a lot more out there.
    Obama never betrayed the gay community. He may not have completed everything he promised, but he did do a few key things.

    Can I ask you something... what has the republican party done for the gay community? Besides antagonize us? And then you claim that DADT was ended by a gay republican group... no it really wasn't.

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    Re: Why Obama doesn't support gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    Boy. You really do rely on the low information voter don't you.

    All CNN did was run with the La Times story and fluff it up some.

    Show me the actual CNN exit poll done by their on the ground 'reporters' sited at a variety of polling areas across the state. You can't.

    And the Haas Foundation has a bias? Prove it.

    And now you are saying that 95% of the blacks voted for Prop 8? Do you always just pull this kind of nonsense directly from your fundament?

    And if all the white mormons who voted against it had not, it probably would have passed.

    If all the religious Latinos, who make up a much bigger percentage of the California population and voted in the same percentage as the blacks for Prop 8 had not voted for it it, it would not have passed.

    Your idea that the blacks voted en bloc for Prop 8 because Obama was on the ballot is not only naive, it is proven wrong. I don't know why you feel compelled to lay this at the door of blacks, but your agenda doesn't look pretty from here.

    If anyone has an agenda here my friend, it is apparently you and we're used to this kind of thing in the run-up to the election.

    Certainly one thing is evident; your reasoning and research skills are perfect for someone at the level of Private.
    Here is the CNN Prop 8 Exit Poll. It was actually entered as evidence in the court case.

    So that was easy.

    Haas might or might not be biased, but their client was and is. Haas got the results their client wanted.

    I am not saying 95% of African Americans voted for Prop 8, but for Obama and that had Obama made an outreach to the African American community that was turning out in record numbers to support him, to vote "no", it would have been easily defeated.

    The disparity between a 95% percent voting block swinging 180 degrees to a 70% block on an issue supposedly of great import to Democrats speaks volumes. Latinos were only 53% in favor of Prop 8.

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    Re: Why Obama doesn't support gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    Obama never betrayed the gay community. He may not have completed everything he promised, but he did do a few key things.

    Can I ask you something... what has the republican party done for the gay community? Besides antagonize us? And then you claim that DADT was ended by a gay republican group... no it really wasn't.
    Yes, it really was. Go Read Log Cabin Republicans v United States.

    Name one "key" thing he has done? ENDA? DOMA? DADT? Did you actually read any of the links with the issues gay leaders raised?

  8. #58

    Re: Why Obama doesn't support gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    Obama never betrayed the gay community. He may not have completed everything he promised, but he did do a few key things.

    <snip>.
    Which he will do in his second term.

  9. #59
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    Re: Why Obama doesn't support gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by PrivateTimm View Post
    He made the commitments in meetings with gay community leaders.

    Obama betrays gay community.
    Obama hasn't kept his promises.
    Obama Inaction on Promises
    Obama's gay rights gap

    There is a lot more out there.
    Gee -- four articles about the same basic issue at roughly the same time. Funny, but that issue is dead, because the promises they were worried about have basically been kept.

    Got something real?

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  10. #60
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    Re: Why Obama doesn't support gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    Your idea that the blacks voted en bloc for Prop 8 because Obama was on the ballot is not only naive, it is proven wrong. I don't know why you feel compelled to lay this at the door of blacks, but your agenda doesn't look pretty from here.
    Blacks are a minority. Republicans nowadays represent those who have always hated minorities.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  11. #61
    ecce homo rareboy's Avatar
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    Re: Why Obama doesn't support gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by PrivateTimm View Post
    Here is the CNN Prop 8 Exit Poll. It was actually entered as evidence in the court case.

    So that was easy.

    Haas might or might not be biased, but their client was and is. Haas got the results their client wanted.

    I am not saying 95% of African Americans voted for Prop 8, but for Obama and that had Obama made an outreach to the African American community that was turning out in record numbers to support him, to vote "no", it would have been easily defeated.

    The disparity between a 95% percent voting block swinging 180 degrees to a 70% block on an issue supposedly of great import to Democrats speaks volumes. Latinos were only 53% in favor of Prop 8.
    Sorry sunshine, but these were the same Edison Media Research polls that were found faulty in their sampling. That is who CNN and all the other networks use. It isn't as though CNN did its own exit polls. They just relied on the same flawed data as everyone else.

    Haas doesn't have clients. You don't understand their foundation or the objectives of the study apparently.

    The exit polls have been discredited as being sloppily done and not representative of the state wide voting. Why are you hanging on to them so desperately? Why do you just keep making stuff up?

    We're not stupid here, although your uberlords at the RNC might think so.

    I like the return to the old strategy though. You all realize that the GOP has shit to offer this election year, so the only hope is to sow dissatisfaction among the niche demos so that hopefully they just won't bother voting.

  12. #62
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    Re: Why Obama doesn't support gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    That said, and with absolutely no disrespect meant to anyone in particular, the African-American population IS largely opposed to homosexuality in general. Which I find very sad, considering how recently they were in our shoes (and as recent shooting showed some times still are)...
    Just try and find an African-American who doesn't believe the Bible (or any of the other religious books) word for word. That's part of the reason behind the anti-gay sentiment in such a large percentage of their population.

    It isn't just African-Americans either, it's Bible fearing Americans. That includes gays who believe that book is the law of God. They will vote against gay rights and not blink an eye while sucking dick that night in a public restroom. Then go home to the beard and kids.

    Personally, I don't care what anyone chooses to believe as long as they keep that brianwashed hypocrisy out of our government. Don't try and legislate your brand of morality on everyone else.

  13. #63
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    Re: Why Obama doesn't support gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Adrock-JD View Post
    It isn't just African-Americans either, it's Bible fearing Americans. That includes gays who believe that book is the law of God. They will vote against gay rights and not blink an eye while sucking dick that night in a public restroom.
    People who think the Bible is the "law of God" don't understand the Bible or Jesus. Non-Christians find them annoying because they're bigots; Christians who realize Jesus was about mercy find them annoying because they're ignorant bigots -- foundationally ignorant, because they don't even understand the book they cling to.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  14. #64
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Why Obama doesn't support gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by PrivateTimm View Post
    Yes, it really was. Go Read Log Cabin Republicans v United States.

    Name one "key" thing he has done? ENDA? DOMA? DADT? Did you actually read any of the links with the issues gay leaders raised?
    No it really wasn't. It was a democrat that signed the bill that ended DADT. Nobody cares about the Log Cabin republicans. They are an immaterial group that has no say in the republican party. And in fact, they are even shunned by most of the republican party.

    Oh and as far as that Prop 8 Exit poll that says 70% of African Americans voted in favor of Prop 8, I've already disproved that numerous times. Further study showed 57-58% voted in favor of it, not much higher then the actual percentage.

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    Re: Why Obama doesn't support gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    People who think the Bible is the "law of God" don't understand the Bible or Jesus. Non-Christians find them annoying because they're bigots; Christians who realize Jesus was about mercy find them annoying because they're ignorant bigots -- foundationally ignorant, because they don't even understand the book they cling to.
    Agreed.

    Cherry picking from the Bible those things which don't cramp their style is very popular.

    I think Obama would sign anything pertaining to gay rights, or at least that's his track record so far, but in his head he still has a hard time saying he's totally on board with same sex marriage.

    That's fine.

    Morality is doing what is right, not what you are told.
    Religion is doing what you're told, even if it's not right.

  16. #66
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    Re: Why Obama doesn't support gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Adrock-JD View Post
    Just try and find an African-American who doesn't believe the Bible (or any of the other religious books) word for word.
    Awwww I know....heheh....what a silly, superstitious "race" they are, eh? (shakes head knowingly and chuckles)

    Cue the "negro spirituals" and entrance of overweight black maid (she's been in the family for YEARS) who says "funny things" like "Oh 'dat boy!!"

    wait, what?

    I'm sorry, we were not SUPPOSED to generalize and stereotype here? oooops... I thought that was cool now after, you know......the ummm president? no? Oh I'm so sorry "my bad" (backs out of room)

  17. #67
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    Re: Why Obama doesn't support gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    I'll just point out that being bitter and racist is very unattractive..
    I'll just point out that being bitter, racist and ignorant about the Struggle of Blacks in America is very unattractive...



    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    I don't hide or tone down my sexuality in any aspect of my life..
    You're a Registered member on a Porn site you don't have to convince anybody of that fact...




    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Also, I don't see the US electing a gay president in my lifetime. Do you?
    Black Americans living today said we'd NEVER see a Black President in our lifetime but we were WRONG...


    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    This aggressive accusatory tone with no clear target earns you nothing in this thread.
    It's very hard to earn anything in this thread when your ignorance takes up all the space...Just saying...

  18. #68
    Virtus in medio stat JUB Admin opinterph's Avatar
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    Re: Why Obama doesn't support gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by PrivateTimm View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by opinterph View Post
    First 100 days? I don’t remember him making commitments to end DOMA, DADT, or pass ENDA within the first 100 days. Do you recall when/where he made these commitments?
    He made the commitments in meetings with gay community leaders.

    [URL="http://www.salon.com/2009/06/17/gay_rights_2/"]Obama betrays gay community.[/URL]
    [URL="http://articles.cnn.com/2009-06-29/politics/obama.gays_1_same-sex-partners-marriage-act-gay?_s=PM:POLITICS"]Obama hasn't kept his promises.[/URL]
    [URL="http://www.towleroad.com/2009/05/obama-inaction-on-promises-to-gay-voters-under-focus.html"]Obama Inaction on Promises[/URL]
    [URL="http://articles.latimes.com/2009/jun/17/opinion/ed-marriage17"]Obama's gay rights gap[/URL]
    I reviewed the articles you linked, as published by Salon (June 17, 2009), CNN (June 29, 2009), Towleroad (May 7, 2009), and LA Times (Jun17, 2009). None of them provide any support for the notion that Mr. Obama was committed to “end DOMA, DADT or pass ENDA in his first hundred days.”

    Quote Originally Posted by PrivateTimm View Post
    There is a lot more out there.
    There are lots of articles, yes. Can you provide any credible source to verify that the President made a commitment to end DOMA, DADT or pass ENDA during his first hundred days in office?

  19. #69
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    Re: Why Obama doesn't support gay marriage

    The sad thing is, he CAN'T come out and say it. If he does,be assured his chances of reelection will be nil.

  20. #70
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    Re: Why Obama doesn't support gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Gee -- four articles about the same basic issue at roughly the same time. Funny, but that issue is dead, because the promises they were worried about have basically been kept.

    Got something real?

    That's a good one!

    In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

  21. #71
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    Re: Why Obama doesn't support gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by LuvFindsAndyHardy View Post
    Awwww I know....heheh....what a silly, superstitious "race" they are, eh? (shakes head knowingly and chuckles)
    Just stating what I've read and heard, not stereotyping. I've heard it from many African-Americans I've met, it was covered by CNN and it's in several studies and articles.

    "African-Americans are the most religiously devout racial group in the nation when it comes to attending services, praying and believing that God exists, according to a recent profile.

    Compared to the rest of the U.S. population, which is generally considered highly religious, African-Americans engage in religious activities more frequently and express higher levels of religious belief, Pew Research Center's Forum on Religion & Public Life highlighted in a report released in time for Black History Month."

    http://www.christianpost.com/news/af...t-group-36736/

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    Re: Why Obama doesn't support gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Adrock-JD View Post
    Morality is doing what is right, not what you are told.
    Religion is doing what you're told, even if it's not right.
    That may be a good way of defining religion.

    In which case, I'm not religious.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  23. #73
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    Re: Why Obama doesn't support gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Adrock-JD View Post
    Just stating what I've read and heard, not stereotyping. I've heard it from many African-Americans I've met, it was covered by CNN and it's in several studies and articles.
    I know you didn't INTEND to stereotype and generalize, I just want to point out that, if you use phrases like "Just try and find an African-American who doesn't believe the Bible (or any of the other religious books) word for word" it's going to come across that way.

  24. #74
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    Re: Why Obama doesn't support gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by MisterMajestic View Post
    I'll just point out that being bitter, racist and ignorant about the Struggle of Blacks in America is very unattractive...





    You're a Registered member on a Porn site you don't have to convince anybody of that fact...






    Black Americans living today said we'd NEVER see a Black President in our lifetime but we were WRONG...




    It's very hard to earn anything in this thread when your ignorance takes up all the space...Just saying...
    I am neither bitter nor racist. I wasn't the one who posted the article, I am not supporting it and I have not said a single racist thing here. I am also a foreigner and I have only lived in the country for three years. You have never talked to me, you don't know me, and yet you're are extremely confrontational and throwing insults around. I don't think I've given you provocation for it, but whatever - get your rage on, feel like a victim if that's what does it for you...

  25. #75
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    Re: Why Obama doesn't support gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by LuvFindsAndyHardy View Post
    I know you didn't INTEND to stereotype and generalize, I just want to point out that, if you use phrases like "Just try and find an African-American who doesn't believe the Bible (or any of the other religious books) word for word" it's going to come across that way.
    Understood. I should have worded it differently. I'm sure there are African-Americans who aren't religious. Most statistics are never 100 percent.

  26. #76
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    Re: Why Obama doesn't support gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Adrock-JD View Post
    Most statistics are never 100 percent.
    Including that one.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  27. #77
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    Re: Why Obama doesn't support gay marriage

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