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  1. #1
    What's next? chrisrobin's Avatar
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    Grand Jury in Florida Will Examine Death of Teenager

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/21/us...martin.html?hp

    I was following this story on my radio until I heard the boy screaming and pleading for his life. Goodbye Travon.

    I just hope to God that justice will be served. Please see attached:

    http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/the-u...tt-louis-till/

    The only problem is that Emmett Till was murdered a half-century ago. Apparently, the passage of time is overrated. File under: The more things change, the more they stay the same.

  2. #2

    Re: Grand Jury in Florida Will Examine Death of Teenager

    On the news last night they said the man on the neighborhood watch,George Zimmerman, had a habit of calling 911 and reporting blacks who happened to be walking in the area. Florida's gun laws suck. Someone like Zimmerman shouldn't have been allowed to carry one around.

    This is tragic. That poor kid.

  3. #3
    stop the bullshit rareboy's Avatar
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    Re: Grand Jury in Florida Will Examine Death of Teenager

    Another of the Great American tragedies.

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    Re: Grand Jury in Florida Will Examine Death of Teenager

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisrobin View Post
    The only problem is that Emmett Till was murdered a half-century ago. Apparently, the passage of time is overrated. File under: The more things change, the more they stay the same.
    Yeah. As long as you ignore that pretty much everyone except for Zimmerman and the local cops are trying to figure out why Zimmerman is still free. When the DOJ steps in to deal with what's ostensibly a local case, you know there's something not right...

    RG
    Isn't it weird that those that condemn others for being intolerant are usually the most intolerant themselves?
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    Re: Grand Jury in Florida Will Examine Death of Teenager

    The cops didn't do much investigating on the murder. Didn't see if Zimm was on drugs or drunk.
    It's good to see that the FBI, the State Dept and local authorities are investigating it.
    We need to come into 2012.
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    MURDER: Racist Kills 17 year-old Trayvon Martin

    Screw Kony 2012. If people really care and want to give a damn about something, then the whole country needs to rally behind Trayvon Martin's family. This boy was racially profiled by some gun touting racist claiming to be a "neighborhood watch captain" and then shot Trayvon in the chest when he was just walking home with a bag of skittles in his pocket.

    http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/20...s-watching-him
    A 17-year-old boy whose death has sparked national outrage fearfully told his girlfriend over the phone moments before he was shot to death that he was being followed, contradicting the shooter's self-defense claim, the family’s lawyer said Tuesday afternoon.
    Justice for Trayvon!
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    Re: Grand Jury in Florida Will Examine Death of Teenager

    I found this today that y;all may be interested in. There are links from several newspapers about what they quote in this article.
    There has been another thread opened in the forum.

    http://www.alternet.org/newsandviews...ee/#paragraph5


    What Everyone Should Know About Trayvon Martin (1995-2012), The Young Man Whose Killer Remains Free

    On February 26, 2012, a 17-year-old African-American named Trayvon Martin was shot and killed in Sanford, Florida. The shooter was George Zimmerman, a 28-year-old white man. Zimmerman admits killing Martin, but claims he was acting in self-defense. Three weeks after Martin’s death, no arrests have been made and Zimmerman remains free.
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    JubberClubber White Eagle's Avatar
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    Re: Grand Jury in Florida Will Examine Death of Teenager

    There is a video by ABC at this link. The boy called his girlfriend before he got shot and she tells what happened.

    Sad Sad.

    http://www.alternet.org/newsandviews...ed/#paragraph2

    Trayvon Martin Case Goes to Grand Jury, FBI as Devastating Final Phone Call With Girlfriend Is Revealed

    After weeks of raised voices, petitions, and outcry, the chilling, tragic and horrifying case of Trayvon Martin--the young boy who was shot to death by a man on the "neighborhood watch," s who has not yet been charged--is at last going to a grand jury. And it's also getting looked into by the FBI and Justice Department, according to local NBC affiliate WESH. This comes after a period of inaction, stalled in part due to Florida's problematic "stand your ground" self-defense law.
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  9. #9

    Re: Grand Jury in Florida Will Examine Death of Teenager

    What is most sickening about this case is that the police are trying to cover this up and protect Zimmerman. He's clearly a menace. The article claims that his neighbors have complained about his behavior to the police before. Had the police done something this poor boy might still be alive. The town should fire the police chief.

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    Re: Grand Jury in Florida Will Examine Death of Teenager

    This whole thing is SAD and sickening....A 17yr old kid is Murdered by a 28yr old wanna-be-Cop.....The Prosecutor is going to have plenty of evidence to work with...Especially if Trayvon Martin's Girlfriends statement pans out....The Martin's Family Lawyer says he's already verified cell records and she was talking to Trayvon while he walked to the Gas station and before he was attacked on his way home...

    Trayvon told her that George was following him then stopped him and asked him why he was in the area....She heard what sounded like tussling then the call went dead.....After the shooting all the police did was show up, took Zimmerman's statement, took the body away and that was that..The Police didnt even do a check on Zimmerman...They took his word and called it a day..The Police allowed Zimmerman to KEEP the gun he used to kill the young Kid...As if all is well......

    Didnt the Officers scratch their heads when they saw the Bag of Skittles and Ice tea in Trayvon's possession?

    The Local Sanford Police THOUGHT this would be "hush-hush" and Trayvon's parents would just walk away and NEVER question what happened.....The Chief of police should be fired for sitting on his Ass for weeks...I can't even believe he showed his Stupid Face today...

    I will be following this case...

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    Re: Grand Jury in Florida Will Examine Death of Teenager

    Quote Originally Posted by White Eagle View Post
    I found this today that y;all may be interested in. There are links from several newspapers about what they quote in this article.
    There has been another thread opened in the forum.

    http://www.alternet.org/newsandviews...ee/#paragraph5
    First of all, when did Zimmerman become a white man?

    Secondly, I hope they fry his fat ass for taking the law into his own hands.

    If you really want change, sign up at this web site for e-mail updates and add your name. They always send out causes (like once every two weeks) where you can add your name to lists protesting injustices like this one.

    http://colorofchange.org/campaign/trayvon/

  12. #12
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    Re: Grand Jury in Florida Will Examine Death of Teenager

    Quote Originally Posted by MisterMajestic View Post
    This whole thing is SAD and sickening....A 17yr old kid is Murdered by a 28yr old wanna-be-Cop.....The Prosecutor is going to have plenty of evidence to work with...Especially if Trayvon Martin's Girlfriends statement pans out....The Martin's Family Lawyer says he's already verified cell records and she was talking to Trayvon while he walked to the Gas station and before he was attacked on his way home...
    That fat ass' picture that the media is using isn't a Glamour Shot; it is a MUG shot for a THUG.

    My uncle lives in Florida and we spoke about this case and he was saying that that part of Florida is like Alabama (or any other poor red state).

  13. #13
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    Re: MURDER: Racist Kills 17 year-old Trayvon Martin

    Quote Originally Posted by Just_Believe18 View Post
    Screw Kony 2012. If people really care and want to give a damn about something, then the whole country needs to rally behind Trayvon Martin's family. This boy was racially profiled by some gun touting racist claiming to be a "neighborhood watch captain" and then shot Trayvon in the chest when he was just walking home with a bag of skittles in his pocket.
    Not trying to be jerk, but excluding the local police, it seems like the country is backing the family. The petition is at half a million and counting, and the FBI and DOJ are paying close attention to the state's investigation. I really do not want to be that police chief...

    FWIW
    RG
    Isn't it weird that those that condemn others for being intolerant are usually the most intolerant themselves?
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  14. #14
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    Re: Grand Jury in Florida Will Examine Death of Teenager

    The moment I heard "Stand Your Ground" invoked to protect this guy I blew up. He wasn't standing his ground, he was stalking and attacking. He followed someone with no good reason, continued to follow contrary to police instructions, got out of his car and confronted Trayvon aggressively, assaulted, and killed him.

    It's murder -- period. {Text removed by moderator}
    Last edited by jackoroe; March 22nd, 2012 at 11:03 AM. Reason: Advocating violence.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  15. #15
    JubberClubber White Eagle's Avatar
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    Re: Grand Jury in Florida Will Examine Death of Teenager

    Texas has a similar law except I believe it is for your home. If someone breaks in you have the right to shoot him. This law in Fla just allows anyone to kill.
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    Re: Grand Jury in Florida Will Examine Death of Teenager

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    The moment I heard "Stand Your Ground" invoked to protect this guy I blew up. He wasn't standing his ground, he was stalking and attacking. He followed someone with no good reason, continued to follow contrary to police instructions, got out of his car and confronted Trayvon aggressively, assaulted, and killed him.

    It's murder -- period.
    What's funny is that fat ass is missing; no one knows where he is. I guess he doesn't feel that "Stand Your Ground" would help protect him now that people have heard what he has done.
    Last edited by jackoroe; March 22nd, 2012 at 11:04 AM. Reason: Edited text removed.

  17. #17
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    Re: Grand Jury in Florida Will Examine Death of Teenager

    I was watching MSNBC's "The Last Word" with Larry O' Donnel last night and I found out that South Carolina is also under the "Stand Your Ground" law...I NEVER knew that...

    So the same thing can happen to me and anyone else...

  18. #18
    JubberClubber White Eagle's Avatar
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    Re: Grand Jury in Florida Will Examine Death of Teenager

    I wondered when that was gonna happen.I wonder if the police are in that protection. I wouldn't doubt it.
    BTY that article said he was white, you don't think so? The name Zimmerman seems to be a white name.
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  19. #19
    JubberClubber White Eagle's Avatar
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    Re: Grand Jury in Florida Will Examine Death of Teenager

    Now isn't this interesting! The National Sheriffs' Association (NSA) -- the parent organization of USAonWatch-Neighborhood Watch is saying Zimmerman was not a member of any group recognized by this NSA. He better be off to Uganda or somewhere.

    http://www.thegrio.com/specials/tray...ganization.php
    George Zimmerman: Not a member of recognized neighborhood watch organization

    By Alexis Garrett Stodghill

    1:00 PM on 03/21/2012


    When Sanford, Florida police discovered 28-year-old George Zimmerman standing over the body of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, they accepted his claim that he killed in self-defense, as a neighborhood watch captain.

    Now, through a statement released by the National Sheriffs' Association (NSA) -- the parent organization of USAonWatch-Neighborhood Watch -- it has been revealed that Zimmerman was not a member of any group recognized by the organization. Zimmerman violated the central tenants of Neighborhood Watch by following Martin, confronting him, carrying a concealed weapon, and certainly by killing.

    "In no program that I have ever heard of does someone patrol with a gun in their pocket," Carmen Caldwell, the Executive Director of Citizens' Crime Watch of Miami-Dade, told theGrio. "Every city and municipality has their own policies. Here in Miami-Dade we train people only to be the eyes and ears of their communities. Not to follow, and most definitely not to carry a weapon."
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    Re: Grand Jury in Florida Will Examine Death of Teenager

    Quote Originally Posted by White Eagle View Post
    I wondered when that was gonna happen.I wonder if the police are in that protection. I wouldn't doubt it.
    BTY that article said he was white, you don't think so? The name Zimmerman seems to be a white name.
    I'm not certain but I believe his Dad is White & his mother is Latino...Based on the Pic he's deff part Latino..

    Had Zimmerman become a Law-officer like he dreamed can you imagine the "terror" he would have been to the locals?

    I wonder what happened that caused him to lose sight of his Dreams & Goals? Depression must have set in along with bitterness and it turned him into an obsessed Monster...

    He called the 911 dispatch close to 50 times and not one time did they think he'd eventually shoot someone?

  21. #21
    JubberClubber White Eagle's Avatar
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    Re: Grand Jury in Florida Will Examine Death of Teenager

    ^^^Since that post I've read at the NY Times link in one of the above posts that says he is white latino. Never heard of that one.
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    Re: Grand Jury in Florida Will Examine Death of Teenager

    Quote Originally Posted by MisterMajestic View Post
    I was watching MSNBC's "The Last Word" with Larry O' Donnel last night and I found out that South Carolina is also under the "Stand Your Ground" law...I NEVER knew that...

    So the same thing can happen to me and anyone else...
    Not all the laws are written the same -- and not everyone understands what's written. The Texas law applies only to your home; others apply to your home and business; some apply also to you defending someone else's business. If Florida's applies to people stalking someone, approaching aggressively, and then -- as it appears -- just shooting, it's not one any firearm association in the U.S. approved of.

    Quote Originally Posted by White Eagle View Post
    I wondered when that was gonna happen.I wonder if the police are in that protection. I wouldn't doubt it.
    BTY that article said he was white, you don't think so? The name Zimmerman seems to be a white name.
    Zimmerman is German, specifically Prussian. Many with the name are Jewish or have Jewish blood.

    Quote Originally Posted by White Eagle View Post
    ^^^Since that post I've read at the NY Times link in one of the above posts that says he is white latino. Never heard of that one.
    I think it means identifies as white but has Latino blood.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  23. #23
    JubberClubber White Eagle's Avatar
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    Re: Grand Jury in Florida Will Examine Death of Teenager

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Not all the laws are written the same -- and not everyone understands what's written. The Texas law applies only to your home; others apply to your home and business; some apply also to you defending someone else's business. If Florida's applies to people stalking someone, approaching aggressively, and then -- as it appears -- just shooting, it's not one any firearm association in the U.S. approved of.



    Zimmerman is German, specifically Prussian. Many with the name are Jewish or have Jewish blood.



    I think it means identifies as white but has Latino blood.
    It was just an odd way to put it.
    Here in Texas some Latinos are considered White. I forget which association they are with.
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    Re: Grand Jury in Florida Will Examine Death of Teenager

    Quote Originally Posted by White Eagle View Post
    It was just an odd way to put it.
    Here in Texas some Latinos are considered White. I forget which association they are with.
    Yeah, but they're in New York . . .


    BTW, after some thought: the states adopting these should require all concealed carry folks to go for a refresher course designed to explain the limits of the new law.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Grand Jury in Florida Will Examine Death of Teenager

    That's a good idea.
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    Re: Grand Jury in Florida Will Examine Death of Teenager

    I've never heard a Latino call himself white - or anyone else say that for that matter.

    I've heard guys calling themselves Hispanic call themselves white.

    Anyway why does it matter - the guy's still a racist if he targeted the kid for no better reason than he was black.

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    Re: Grand Jury in Florida Will Examine Death of Teenager

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    BTW, after some thought: the states adopting these should require all concealed carry folks to go for a refresher course designed to explain the limits of the new law.
    That would change nothing. The nasty little thing that gun lobbies and proponents of laws like this don't want to talk about is the Suburban Rambo. Who will go out of his way to find a situation in which to "defend" himself. Because he thinks he's a bad-ass and he has a gun.

    I am reminded of that Japanese exchange student who was shot dead on someone's lawn one Halloween night, and the two idiots who got into a gunfight over a parking space at a Wal Mart one afternoon, there there is this:

    http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-201_162-3517564.html from a few years ago.

    All these laws do is promote a culture that endorses some fucking idiot macho posturing, nothing else. Except get people killed over stupid shit.

    The law already allows for self defense. If you think you have a right to kill someone because you're scared and he is stepping on your lawn, you're a fucking idiot, and let's not forget the racial aspect that gets tossed into the mix.

    How did the above case turn out?

    http://www.newser.com/story/31381/no...-burglars.html

    Notice how quickly the people who pushed this law disowned the consequences, and when the current law wouldn't support the asshole with the shotgun, his lawyers had to go back before the Civil War to find a justification.

    But that didn't matter, because the gun culture reared it's adolescent self and let him off anyway.

    {Text removed by moderator}
    Last edited by jackoroe; March 22nd, 2012 at 10:59 AM. Reason: Suggesting violence.

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    Re: Grand Jury in Florida Will Examine Death of Teenager

    Quote Originally Posted by White Eagle View Post
    I wondered when that was gonna happen.I wonder if the police are in that protection. I wouldn't doubt it.
    BTY that article said he was white, you don't think so? The name Zimmerman seems to be a white name.
    "Zimmerman" is adopted.

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    Re: Grand Jury in Florida Will Examine Death of Teenager

    I've got to find out how my State's "Stand your Ground" Law is written...

    It's interesting that you Guys have never heard of "Black Latinos" & White Latinos"...

    Zoe Saldana of "Avatar Fame" is a "Black Latina"....Do you remember the late GREAT "Queen of Salsa" Celia Cruz? She was a very famous Black Latina...

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    Re: Grand Jury in Florida Will Examine Death of Teenager

    this shooting not only goes to show the fact racism still exists in many parts of the country but also the dangers many critics had with this law.
    In Florida, it IS possible to shoot someone and get away with it,all you have to do is say you felt threatened.

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    Re: Grand Jury in Florida Will Examine Death of Teenager

    "Stand Your Ground" shouldn't apply out in public unless you're certain the person has a lethal weapon and is acting in a threatening manner with it.

    And if Wayne LaPierre disagrees, he can go gargle concrete.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  32. #32
    JUB Addict T-Rexx's Avatar
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    Re: Grand Jury in Florida Will Examine Death of Teenager

    "If your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail" said Abraham Maslow.

    George Zimmerman had a hammer.

    So, Trayvon Martin had to be a nail.

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    Re: Grand Jury in Florida Will Examine Death of Teenager

    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    I've never heard a Latino call himself white - or anyone else say that for that matter.

    I've heard guys calling themselves Hispanic call themselves white.

    Anyway why does it matter - the guy's still a racist if he targeted the kid for no better reason than he was black.
    That may have been a while ago. I can't say I've heard it recently.
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    Re: Grand Jury in Florida Will Examine Death of Teenager

    Quote Originally Posted by Lostlover View Post
    "Zimmerman" is adopted.
    Thanks, I hadn't read that.
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    Re: Grand Jury in Florida Will Examine Death of Teenager

    Zimmerman should have been arrested already. I'm not sure if this is hate crime but hunting someone down like he did is premeditated murder, if the facts come out the way they are leaning towards hunting this young guy down. I think a gun nut totting wanna be cop , self appointed vigilante like Zimmerman would have likely done the same with a Mexican, Asian, or white punk/thug
    If some big Mexican looking dude appeared to be following me and got out of his car I would try to beat the shit of him if he approached threatening asking me question as could have happened here to defend myself. But I would do the same if they were black or white too.

    The cops handled this in typical southern local piss poor fashion rather on purpose or you get what you pay for is the problem you can't tell exactly yet. Sanford Florida has more in common with "In the heat of the Night" then it does with a major league trained professional police force.

    I feel very bad for the family of the deceased young man, its fucking horrible.

    At the same time though the defense for the family needs to cool it on pointing out his age as a child. While this is true and he and his family need justice right now top local news in the area are the following crimes by "children" of this age.

    1) Arrested yesterday in the brutal beating and sexual assault/rape of a female hotel worker at the Hyatt outside of Lakeland Florida was a 200 lb -14 yr old boy. Which was savage.

    2) The trial starts for a 16 yr old boy who gunned down and killed a St. Petersburg Florida police officer point blank range a yr ago.

    3) The trial starts and is under way for a 17 yr old boy in Sarasota for the brutal gunning down murders of 2 British male 20's age tourist last year who were in the wrong neighborhood. Rather lost or more likely a drug deal gone bad it resulted in 2 unarmed Brits being murdered.

    It doesn't matter the color of defendants of all 3 of these juveniles because crime is not regulated to one color my point is the word "child" doesn't deter extreme violence and its rampant here in Florida.
    All 3 of these cases deserve similar media coverage that Zimmerman case is getting but they will not.

    People like Rev. Sharpton (whose Mom died last night) needs to make a big fuss about this sort of shit too. He will not.
    Zimmerman is a fucking nut but people are scared and when people, normal people are scared they react first think later.

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    Re: Grand Jury in Florida Will Examine Death of Teenager

    Quote Originally Posted by vulgar_newcomer View Post
    Zimmerman should have been arrested already. I'm not sure if this is hate crime but hunting someone down like he did is premeditated murder, if the facts come out the way they are leaning towards hunting this young guy down. I think a gun nut totting wanna be cop , self appointed vigilante like Zimmerman would have likely done the same with a Mexican, Asian, or white punk/thug
    If some big Mexican looking dude appeared to be following me and got out of his car I would try to beat the shit of him if he approached threatening asking me question as could have happened here to defend myself. But I would do the same if they were black or white too.

    The cops handled this in typical southern local piss poor fashion rather on purpose or you get what you pay for is the problem you can't tell exactly yet. Sanford Florida has more in common with "In the heat of the Night" then it does with a major league trained professional police force.

    I feel very bad for the family of the deceased young man, its fucking horrible.

    At the same time though the defense for the family needs to cool it on pointing out his age as a child. While this is true and he and his family need justice right now top local news in the area are the following crimes by "children" of this age.

    1) Arrested yesterday in the brutal beating and sexual assault/rape of a female hotel worker at the Hyatt outside of Lakeland Florida was a 200 lb -14 yr old boy. Which was savage.

    2) The trial starts for a 16 yr old boy who gunned down and killed a St. Petersburg Florida police officer point blank range a yr ago.

    3) The trial starts and is under way for a 17 yr old boy in Sarasota for the brutal gunning down murders of 2 British male 20's age tourist last year who were in the wrong neighborhood. Rather lost or more likely a drug deal gone bad it resulted in 2 unarmed Brits being murdered.

    It doesn't matter the color of defendants of all 3 of these juveniles because crime is not regulated to one color my point is the word "child" doesn't deter extreme violence and its rampant here in Florida.
    All 3 of these cases deserve similar media coverage that Zimmerman case is getting but they will not.

    People like Rev. Sharpton (whose Mom died last night) needs to make a big fuss about this sort of shit too. He will not.
    Zimmerman is a fucking nut but people are scared and when people, normal people are scared they react first think later.
    It's good to see you're from Fla. Now we have a go to to get an opinion of what's going on in Fla.
    If I were you I wouldn't try to beat the shit out of him. Remember someone like that could be armed and you would be another statistic. I would try to get away from him or run to a house if one is nearby and ask for help. Trayvon didn't have a chance .
    I think Sharpton is making a fuss now.
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    Re: Grand Jury in Florida Will Examine Death of Teenager

    Quote Originally Posted by mitchymo View Post
    I do recall kuli, you arguing that ANYTHING, even fists, can be potentially lethal.
    Either you have the law, and use it to 'defend' whenever you're threatened, against guns, bats or the fists of a guy twice your size, OR, you recognise that the law is open to abuse, and get rid of it.
    All law is open to abuse.

    So . . . anarchy?

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Grand Jury in Florida Will Examine Death of Teenager

    Quote Originally Posted by mitchymo View Post
    If there were just two options kuli, i'd be calling for my own government to give me a god damn gun.

    Limiting rights is not anti-liberty, its protectionism (and common sense) when it is for the purpose of minimising abuse.
    There's no issue of limiting rights here -- it's the issue of making sure what people do is actually the exercise of a right.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Grand Jury in Florida Will Examine Death of Teenager

    Quote Originally Posted by mitchymo View Post
    That is what supposedly "stand your ground" was 'meant' to do. But its been abused so soon after its adoption already.

    And the argument fails, on the basis that you have attached conditions to the 'right' to begin with, which ALSO allow abuse. Self defence is not about being allowed guns, that has been added to the right, and with flagrant disregard for the abuse that it leads to.
    Unless I can use the instrument of my choice which enables me to stand up to the worst of assailants, my right to self-defense means nothing.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Grand Jury in Florida Will Examine Death of Teenager

    Quote Originally Posted by mitchymo View Post
    Then you are attaching a price to that right, and unfortunately, Trayvon (amongst countless others) are paying that price.
    All rights have a price..

    And so far, there's no known cure for idiocy.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Grand Jury in Florida Will Examine Death of Teenager

    The claim of under the stand your ground law is specious at best. Zimmerman was following Martin around an area that wasn't even his own property.

    Zimmerman was acting as a self appointed town watchman. Watching for suspicious people and reporting what you see to authorities is great. Getting involved where you have no lawful authority to do so, is not.

    It's got nothing to do with Florida's gun laws or stand your ground. It appears to have everything to do with cold blooded murder. If it was, Florida has a working death penalty that would be appropriate in this instance.

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    Re: Grand Jury in Florida Will Examine Death of Teenager

    The law is too broad. You CAN go looking for trouble,find it and deal with it the same way Zimmerman did and not face any reprucssions at all.

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    Re: Grand Jury in Florida Will Examine Death of Teenager

    Quote Originally Posted by mitchymo View Post
    Oh, so to hell with the treatment then???
    ?? What "treatment"??

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Grand Jury in Florida Will Examine Death of Teenager

    Quote Originally Posted by jackoroe View Post
    The claim of under the stand your ground law is specious at best. Zimmerman was following Martin around an area that wasn't even his own property.

    Zimmerman was acting as a self appointed town watchman. Watching for suspicious people and reporting what you see to authorities is great. Getting involved where you have no lawful authority to do so, is not.

    It's got nothing to do with Florida's gun laws or stand your ground. It appears to have everything to do with cold blooded murder. If it was, Florida has a working death penalty that would be appropriate in this instance.
    And the statement by one cop that Zimmerman had returned to his vehicle and Treyvon followed and attacked Zimmerman is ludicrous. That's just racism trying to cover for racism.

    A neighborhood watch is really a militia function. If this jerk claimed he was a captain, then he should have been elected, to make him a legitimate militia captain. If he was elected, his militia should have been registered with bot mayor and governor, as any proper militia should do.

    From the evidence, he did none of these things -- he just assigned himself a role. One article reported his neighbors complained about his activities. So if there's any way to charge him for any of that, it should be done.

    The length of time he followed the teen is sufficient to make this qualify for premeditated murder. I'd like to see it prosecuted that way.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Grand Jury in Florida Will Examine Death of Teenager

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    And the statement by one cop that Zimmerman had returned to his vehicle and Treyvon followed and attacked Zimmerman is ludicrous. That's just racism trying to cover for racism.

    A neighborhood watch is really a militia function. If this jerk claimed he was a captain, then he should have been elected, to make him a legitimate militia captain. If he was elected, his militia should have been registered with bot mayor and governor, as any proper militia should do.

    From the evidence, he did none of these things -- he just assigned himself a role. One article reported his neighbors complained about his activities. So if there's any way to charge him for any of that, it should be done.

    The length of time he followed the teen is sufficient to make this qualify for premeditated murder. I'd like to see it prosecuted that way.

    We need to see where the evidence leads before reaching those kinds of conclusions. One thing I did learn today, is that Martin laid in the morgue for three days. Nobody made an attempt to figure out who he was or contact any family members. Martin did have a cell phone on his person. I'm not entirely sure, but I'd guess that might be a clue as to his identity or at least a means to notify somebody of his death.

    The state's attorney is conducting the investigation in conjunction with the grand jury. The police chief is taking a temporary leave until the matter is resolved. Quite the circus they've got going on!

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    Re: Grand Jury in Florida Will Examine Death of Teenager

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Unless I can use the instrument of my choice which enables me to stand up to the worst of assailants, my right to self-defense means nothing.
    No, the right of self-defense does not allow you the right to any weapon of your choice.

    You may not use an automatic weapon, an RPG, a bazooka, or a cannon.

    You may not use a grenade or bomb.

    You may not lay land mines around your property or park a tank in your yard.

    You may not build a dirty bomb or a nuclear device.

    It does not matter how threatened you feel, or what adversary you face. You may not do any of those things in America.

    Thanks to the NRA and Republican legislatures, however, it is perfectly legal to shoot unarmed children in parts of America - so long as they are threatening you with their bag of candy.

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    Re: Grand Jury in Florida Will Examine Death of Teenager

    This just in:

    Sanford sheriff has just resigned. Link to follow.

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    Re: Grand Jury in Florida Will Examine Death of Teenager

    Quote Originally Posted by jackoroe View Post
    The claim of under the stand your ground law is specious at best. Zimmerman was following Martin around an area that wasn't even his own property.
    Yes, of course Zimmerman's claim is absurd, but "Stand Your Ground" laws make it difficult to prosecute people who use guns against other people. That's the whole idea of "Stand Your Ground" laws.

    Zimmerman was the neighborhood watch captain. His "ground" was the entire neighborhood. He felt threatened by the presence of black children in his neighborhood. Under Florida law, he was "standing his ground."

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    Re: Grand Jury in Florida Will Examine Death of Teenager

    Quote Originally Posted by mitchymo View Post
    If you can't cure the idiots, those who abuse guns, then applying treatment, banning handguns, is the next best thing.
    Ah, the old "punish the innocent but protect the guilty" procedure.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Grand Jury in Florida Will Examine Death of Teenager

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Rexx View Post
    Zimmerman was the neighborhood watch captain. His "ground" was the entire neighborhood. He felt threatened by the presence of black children in his neighborhood. Under Florida law, he was "standing his ground."
    But was he really? That's what he told the cops, but that national Neighborhood Watch organization said NOT!, and there were reports his neighbors had complained about him. I'm thinking he was self-appointed.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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