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  1. #101
    FEAR THE LIBERAL DETENTE! TX-Beau's Avatar
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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    That's a rather specific prejudice you've got there.

  2. #102

    Re: Death penality in American's states

    Not a prejudice, just an observation. The Scotch-Irish had a huge impact on the South's political culture. Senator James Webb of Virginia wrote a very highly regarded book about them.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/0..._n_102915.html

    http://www.ashbrook.org/publicat/ope...s/04/webb.html

    I also do not disagree with Webb's analysis.

  3. #103
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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    I didn't see anything in there about how that ethnic group is why there is a death penalty.

  4. #104
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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    Quote Originally Posted by PolterGUYst View Post
    Using that logic, why don't we eliminate life in prison without the possibility of parole, also an extremely harsh and devastating sentence (some might argue a punishment worse than death if they believe the experience to be torturous), just because innocent people have been wrongly convicted before? The answer is because the issue you have is not with the punishment of life in prison itself, but with the legal process that determines when such a punishment is appropriate.
    There is one big difference: If the convicted person is later found to be innocent, a life-without-parole sentence can be vacated, and that person freed. If the person has been executed, it is no longer possible to make it correct.

    [Good Lord, GiancarloC...you beat me to it again! You really do have a knack of doing that, LOL.]
    "All legal U. S. residents who are 18 years or older, shall have an unconditional right to vote." - 28th Amendment, US Constitution?
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  5. #105
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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    Loosen gun control laws a bit more, strengthen self defense laws and let them out all on one day....
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  6. #106
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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    Quote Originally Posted by cynicus View Post
    I've always thought life without parole is a worse sentence than death. To live within a prison with no hope of release is to me the ultimate penalty--which I would prefer.
    I've known three people who have spent time in prison. All three have reported that inside the walls, the lifers are kings: they have no restraints, because they're already being punished as much as society will do. They command the gangs who rule by violence. If anything good is sent to someone, they get a cut. Often, guards even fear them, because they can mobilize other inmate to kill or main any guard they please.

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisrobin View Post
    If I were to have a change of heart... if we had executions, I think they should be televised. Fox could broadcast them live. Think of the ratings! I think the condemned prisoner convulsing after a lethal injection would be a real crowd-pleaser! (especially the "right-to-lifers")
    Forget injections; they have side effects too often that result in pain.
    Bring back the guillotine: quick, painless, and definitely good for ratings.

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    One of the reasons we need the death penalty is to protect society from liberal judges, eager to release vicious criminals into society on technicalities. It is only way to insure finality.
    So you consider the U.S. Founding Fathers to have been liberals? They had a legal maxim back then (from Blackstone, I think):

    Better a hundred guilty walk free than one innocent man be punished.


    Jefferson once cited it as "Better a thousand guilty walk free . . . "

    That should be on the wall of every jury room, and the back of every courtroom where judges have to see it every day.



    As fr the death penalty, generally it belongs in only one place: at the hands of the intended victim.

    I'll grant the state such authority only under certain conditions:

    • premeditated
    • shockingly heinous
    • multiple witnesses at the scene OR action caught on video
    • DNA confirmation
    • then three juries: one to decide if the crime is shockingly heinous; one to judge guilt; one to judge the convincingness of the evidence -- and no jury gets to know what the others have decided


    And the prosecutor signs a contract saying that if evidence ever appears the person was innocent, he will serve the standard sentence for a felony.

    Under those conditions, I'd accept a death penalty.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  7. #107
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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    It is illegal for the US government to go out and assassinate people. Is that always enforced? I don't have a clue.
    Actually, at the moment it is legal -- if they designate the person as an important terrorist. Saudi, Pakistani, Egyptian, American, French -- doesn't matter, if the president and his cabal try them in absentia over coffee and tell the CIA the drines are 'go'.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  8. #108
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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    All hail Mad King George.

  9. #109
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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    All hail Mad King George.
    When George W. Bush was in office, I sometimes thought of him as "King George the Führer'th" (a phrase I borrowed from a friend in Michigan)

    But, if that's the case, we kind of have a "King George The 5th" now, but that doesn't allow a pun...
    "All legal U. S. residents who are 18 years or older, shall have an unconditional right to vote." - 28th Amendment, US Constitution?
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  10. #110
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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    Quote Originally Posted by frankfrank View Post
    When George W. Bush was in office, I sometimes thought of him as "King George the Führer'th" (a phrase I borrowed from a friend in Michigan)

    But, if that's the case, we kind of have a "King George The 5th" now, but that doesn't allow a pun...
    Photoshop it onto a bottle of whiskey.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  11. #111
    JubberClubber White Eagle's Avatar
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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    For those interested about executions pending in the US, here is a link to the National Coalition to Abolish the Death Penalty.
    If you will look at the column on the right of this link you will see all the executions that are pending. Get involved if you want, if not then don't come to me with complaints about this post.

    http://www.ncadp.org/

    National Coalition to Abolish the Death Penalty

    NCADP: Devoted to Abolishing Capital Punishment
    BEWARE! Harassing the Indian may result in sudden and severe hair loss.

  12. #112
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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    Ironic fact: in Oregon we have a guy who asked to have the death penalty just carried out. That was his sentence, I forget how many years ago. He fired his attorneys and told the judge he wanted the sentence carried out. The judge had him evaluated, decided he was mentally competent to make such a decision, and set a date.

    The governor stepped in, so now the guy has to keep serving what he calls inhumane punishment: being locked away from the world.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  13. #113
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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    Does appear CT will be doing away with the DP very soon.

  14. #114

    Re: Death penality in American's states

    The backward countries have the death penalty. America prides itself to be a great democracy, but it is a country where firearms 's market is free .... and where the state kills people. It's terrible.

  15. #115
    Virginia Is for Lovers Alnitak's Avatar
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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    Any particular reason why you brought up this old thread?

    We banned the death penalty in the 1970s, the the Supreme Court chickened out and reversed it.

    It is very rarely used as I understand Texas is the only state that still does them regularly.

  16. #116
    Know thyself kallipolis's Avatar
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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    The status of capital punishment in the United States:

    http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/stat...-death-penalty

  17. #117
    Virginia Is for Lovers Alnitak's Avatar
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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    The status of capital punishment in the United States:

    http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/stat...-death-penalty
    Executions are dropping precipitously. It is getting more difficult to get a jury to send convicts to death row and for a number of reasons. The innocence project has proven many convicts innocent. Convicts in the US are also disproportionately black. It is also just plainly a less sensible punishment than it was in days past. My state repealed the death penalty last year, and I expect the governor to commute the sentences of the remaining death row inmates.

  18. #118
    Know thyself kallipolis's Avatar
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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    Spin it any way you wish the facts remain that the majority (32) of American states retain the death penalty....

  19. #119
    Virginia Is for Lovers Alnitak's Avatar
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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    Spin it any way you wish the facts remain that the majority (32) of American states retain the death penalty....
    I don't know what spin has to do with anything. We are discussing the status of capital punishment in the United States not strictly how many theoretically can execute by statute.

    A majority of those 32 states have not carried out an execution in this decade. The engine of executions is unquestionably Texas, followed by Virginia and Oklahoma. The three states are responsible for a majority of executions in the last 40 years. They do not speak for the whole country, and certainly not most of the other 29 states that very rarely use the death penalty today if ever.
    Last edited by Alnitak; March 26th, 2014 at 04:20 AM.

  20. #120
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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    Spinning the facts with a more optimistic view does not change reality that the majority of American states retain the right to execute....

  21. #121
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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    Spinning the facts with a more optimistic view does not change reality that the majority of American states retain the right to execute....
    And why is that practically important?

    By the way, I never gave an opinion. I just stated facts. That you judge the facts to be optimistic is actually ironic.

  22. #122
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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    The fact remains that the majority of American states retain the right to execute....that today this right is not being exercised as once it was, does not change the fact that many states retain the right to execute....spin that fact any way you wish....until the laws are changed that fact of death remains on the statute books of many states....

  23. #123
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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    What exactly is your point Kallipolis? No one spun anything, except for you - he mentioned that executions are down for a number of reasons, and the best you have to offer is that "well, okay, but it's still on the books!"?

    Might as well talk to a wall, see if I can blow it down.
    "Bleed your heart out,

    I said what's in it for me..."

  24. #124
    Know thyself kallipolis's Avatar
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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    ^Clearly you have over looked this post 115...spun to defend the indefensible that the majority of American states retain the right to execute....in simple English the right to execute remains on the statute books...bruising nationalist sensibilities...much:

    Any particular reason why you brought up this old thread?

    We banned the death penalty in the 1970s, the the Supreme Court chickened out and reversed it.

    It is very rarely used as I understand Texas is the only state that still does them regularly.
    Last edited by kallipolis; March 26th, 2014 at 08:33 AM.

  25. #125
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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    Here's a link detailing executions in the United States for the year 2014 where, it is noted that several states, apart from Texas continue to execute:

    http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/execution-list-2014

  26. #126
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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    The fact remains that the majority of American states retain the right to execute....that today this right is not being exercised as once it was, does not change the fact that many states retain the right to execute....spin that fact any way you wish....until the laws are changed that fact of death remains on the statute books of many states....
    Yet you called my statement of facts optimistic.

    Thank you

  27. #127
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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    ^Clearly my referencing "facts"...see my last link... in preference to your spin has not impressed you...let me make the facts transparent also noting that Texas is not the only state executing...it's amazing what revealing facts can do to enlighten the uninformed person

    Execution List 2014

    1/7/14 1360 FL Askari Muhamma 62 B 1 White Lethal Injection 3-drug w/ midazolam hydrochloride 30
    1/9/14 1361 OK Michael Wilson 38 B 1 White Lethal Injection 3-drug w/ pentobarbital 16
    1/16/14 1362 OH Dennis McGuire 53 W 1 White Lethal Injection 2-drug (midazolam + hydromorphone) 20
    1/22/14 1363 TX Edgar Tamayo~ 46 L 1 White Lethal Injection 1-drug (pentobarbital) 20
    1/24/14 1364 OK Kenneth Hogan 52 W 1 White Lethal Injection 3-drug w/ pentobarbital 11
    1/29/14 1365 MO Herbert Smulls 56 B 1 White Lethal Injection 1-drug (pentobarbital) 22
    2/5/14 1366 TX Suzanne Bassoƒ 59 W 1 White Lethal Injection 1-drug (pentobarbital) 15
    2/12/14 1367 FL Juan Chavez~ 46 L 1 White Lethal Injection 3-drug w/ midazolam hydrochloride 16
    2/26/14 1368 MO Michael Taylor 47 B 1 White Lethal Injection 1-drug (pentobarbital) 23
    2/26/14 1369 FL Paul Howell 48 B 1 White Lethal Injection 3-drug w/ midazolam hydrochloride 19
    3/19/14 1370 TX Ray Jasper 33 B 1 White Lethal Injection 1-drug (pentobarbital) 14
    3/20/14 1371 FL Robert Henry 55 B 1 White, 1 Black Lethal Injection 3-drug w/ midazolam hydrochloride 26
    3/26/14 1372 MO Jeffrey Ferguson 59 W 1 White Lethal Injection 1-drug (pentobarbital) 19

  28. #128
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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    Quote Originally Posted by flashgordon85 View Post
    The backward countries have the death penalty. America prides itself to be a great democracy, but it is a country where firearms 's market is free .... and where the state kills people. It's terrible.
    I don't know what you mean by "firearm 's market is free", but the right to keep and bear arms is an inherent right. To deny its exercise is to deny human dignity -- to say, "You can't have the means of self-defense of your choice" is to say "Your life isn't worth defending".

    As an extension of that, the only legitimate place for the death penalty is at the hands of the intended victim(s), except perhaps in egregious cases of mass murder.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  29. #129
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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    The fact remains that the majority of American states retain the right to execute....that today this right is not being exercised as once it was, does not change the fact that many states retain the right to execute....spin that fact any way you wish....until the laws are changed that fact of death remains on the statute books of many states....
    You contradict yourself. There's no "fact of death" unless the law is actually applied.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  30. #130
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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    The "state" as a whole does not execute. The federal government has performed three executions since 1976, and the last one was in 2003.

  31. #131
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    I don't know what you mean by "firearm 's market is free", but the right to keep and bear arms is an inherent right. To deny its exercise is to deny human dignity -- to say, "You can't have the means of self-defense of your choice" is to say "Your life isn't worth defending".
    All of history, and particularly that of your country, proves yours to be a false claim. Any illusion of merit in it can only be sustained in a society of mutual fear and contempt, and, indeed, disregard for human dignity.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

  32. #132
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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    All of history, and particularly that of your country, proves yours to be a false claim. Any illusion of merit in it can only be sustained in a society of mutual fear and contempt, and, indeed, disregard for human dignity.
    You've got it totally backwards.

    The current European system merely says we'll let criminals decide who dies, and sort them out if we can catch them.

    And in the communities where I've lived where there are firearms in every household, and the kids learn to use them safely when they're old enough to be Boy Scouts, are the places where the regard for human dignity is highest -- along with personal safety.

    I have NEVER seen a community where firearms are few, that you can leave your door unlocked on house and car both, but I have lived in communities where you can see teenagers riding their bikes along the street to go out shooting where that is not just possible but the rule.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  33. #133
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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    All of history, and particularly that of your country, proves yours to be a false claim. Any illusion of merit in it can only be sustained in a society of mutual fear and contempt, and, indeed, disregard for human dignity.


  34. #134
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post

    Indeed appropriate to cite a work of fantasy in support of the gun lobby.

    Comprehensive disarmament demonstrates mutual respect for dignity. Readying oneself to shoot one's neighbours does not.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

  35. #135
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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    Indeed appropriate to cite a work of fantasy in support of the gun lobby.

    Comprehensive disarmament demonstrates mutual respect for dignity. Readying oneself to shoot one's neighbours does not.
    Not just a work of fiction, but a fable.

    LOL we are not readying to shoot our neighbors. You really don't understand American gun culture at all.

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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    I understand US constitutional gun fetishism by its results. Here's a good primer at Slate.


    It's a failed social experiment and a constitutional embarrassment. And in thinking that disarmament is a kind of vulnerability, you show the limits of your own understanding.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    As for the status of executions still being legal in 32 states, that's more noteworthy than which states are and are not using that "right" of applying the ultimate punishment. Just because one of those states (such as Georgia, I think - I didn't look at the list) is rarely if ever using it, doesn't mean that it could all change after the course of just one election. That, plus just one particularly horrific crime within that state's borders well before the election, could be enough for politicians to campaign on broader use of the death penalty - and win - and perhaps replace some important judges/justices. Death Row could become a (dis)assembly line...quickly.
    "All legal U. S. residents who are 18 years or older, shall have an unconditional right to vote." - 28th Amendment, US Constitution?
    "But, hey, who cares about women and their rights when the religious liberty of a nationwide chain of arts and crafts stores is at stake?" - Daily Kos, 30 June 2014
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  38. #138
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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    Quote Originally Posted by frankfrank View Post
    Just because one of those states (such as Georgia, I think - I didn't look at the list) is rarely if ever using it …
    There have been five executions under the current governor. (Past 3 years, 2 months)

  39. #139
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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    I understand US constitutional gun fetishism by its results. Here's a good primer at Slate.


    It's a failed social experiment and a constitutional embarrassment. And in thinking that disarmament is a kind of vulnerability, you show the limits of your own understanding.
    So once again, you chime in on the side of the criminal, telling those of us who are alive because we were armed that we ought to be dead.

    That shows no regard for human dignity or the value of human life.


    BTW, the Slate article is so unscientific that citing it is a joke.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  40. #140
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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    Quote Originally Posted by Alnitak View Post
    Not just a work of fiction, but a fable.

    LOL we are not readying to shoot our neighbors. You really don't understand American gun culture at all.
    Exactly. American gun culture is the Boy Scout cleaning his rifle in the living room who sees a cop go down across the street and moves to save the cop's life. It's the guy hiking in the woods seeing some pervert peeking into the sleeping bags of kids and chasing him away. It's the local heads of households turning out to keep watch to catch the armed convicts reported in the area. It's the mother seeing the coyote that's attacked pets and kids and ending that predator's life with a shot out the kitchen window. It's the father teaching about individual responsibility, civic duty, and safety in everything.

    What Slante and similar publications look at is American criminal culture, which is not the same thing at all.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    Indeed appropriate to cite a work of fantasy in support of the gun lobby.

    Comprehensive disarmament demonstrates mutual respect for dignity. Readying oneself to shoot one's neighbours does not.
    Appropriate indeed to ignore truth because you don't like the source.

    And typical to stand on the side of the criminal. Your attitude would tell the gals I know who have been raped to just put up with it, and the one who had the gun that she should have just surrendered and put up with it.

    As for your last sentence, stop living in bullshit land.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  42. #142
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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    Indeed appropriate to cite a work of fantasy in support of the gun lobby.

    Comprehensive disarmament demonstrates mutual respect for dignity. Readying oneself to shoot one's neighbours does not.
    What a wonderful world it must have been back in the days before the invention of the firearm when everyone lived in mutual respect and dignity?
    Under democracy one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule - and both commonly succeed, and are right. H. L. Mencken US editor (1880 - 1956)

  43. #143
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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    Quote Originally Posted by Stardreamer View Post
    What a wonderful world it must have been back in the days before the invention of the firearm when everyone lived in mutual respect and dignity?


    Priceless.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  44. #144
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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    Quote Originally Posted by opinterph View Post
    There have been five executions under the current governor. (Past 3 years, 2 months)
    It's worthwhile emphasising facts... there are a few here who prefer to deny published facts, preferring spin to defend the indefensible.

  45. #145
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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    You contradict yourself. There's no "fact of death" unless the law is actually applied.
    The law (execution - a fact of death) is being applied with some 13 executions, over several states (not just bad ass Texas) so far in 2014...

    Seemingly you've decided to over look the death list..2014..thus, far:

    http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/execution-list-2014
    Last edited by kallipolis; March 27th, 2014 at 01:37 AM.

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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    Having lived in the heart of the so called bible belt in the states, my favourite is the so called Christian Right telling you that only God can take a live, that abortion is wrong but believing in the death penalty. Hypocrites and ass holes.

  47. #147
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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    So once again, you chime in on the side of the criminal, telling those of us who are alive because we were armed that we ought to be dead.

    That shows no regard for human dignity or the value of human life.
    Much like a poker player with a twitch, whenever you begin a reply with "So you..." it invariably indicates you don't like having to contend with an idea someone has posted, that you have no reply to the concept, and that you'd like to spin it as fast as you can.

    Anyway, I'm telling you you should be alive not because you're a better marksman than your would-be assailant, but because your assailant should never have been in a position to threaten you such that it would even matter if you were armed or not.

    Americans gun culture teaches you to live in a dangerous community because if anything goes wrong you can always shoot 'em. American gun culture teaches you to live with political incompetence and incipient tyrants because if anything goes wrong you can always shoot 'em. American gun culture teaches you to put up with the threat of rape because if anything goes wrong you can always shoot 'em.

    It is the most reactive, after-the-horse-has-left-the-barn way of arranging a community securely and guaranteeing the safety of the individuals within it. Indeed it is hard to imagine a community attitude toward safety with less foresight than that of American gun culture.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    BTW, the Slate article is so unscientific that citing it is a joke.
    I predict that only two posts after dismissing a published piece of journalism with disclosed methodology as my source, you will complain that I dismiss the wisdom of a fictional character from an adolescent fantasy novel as a credible source in support of the gun lobby.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

  48. #148
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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    The law (execution - a fact of death) is being applied with some 13 executions, over several states (not just bad ass Texas) so far in 2014...

    Seemingly you've decided to over look the death list..2014..thus, far:

    http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/execution-list-2014
    Stop dodging.

    You asserted that because there's a law on the books, there's a "fact of death". That's false.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  49. #149
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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    Anyway, I'm telling you you should be alive not because you're a better marksman than your would-be assailant, but because your assailant should never have been in a position to threaten you such that it would even matter if you were armed or not.
    So you want to ban two-by-fours, surf boards, and tire irons.

    Your position is a fantasy. There's no way to take lethal items away from people who want to be lethal.

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    Americans gun culture teaches you to live in a dangerous community because if anything goes wrong you can always shoot 'em. American gun culture teaches you to live with political incompetence and incipient tyrants because if anything goes wrong you can always shoot 'em. American gun culture teaches you to put up with the threat of rape because if anything goes wrong you can always shoot 'em.
    You've got it backwards in every case. American gun culture says to come to the aid of someone being raped. Your view says let 'em be raped, it'll only last till the cops get here. And it's the newspapers that tell us we live in a dangerous community.

    You insist that we trust those in power to take care of us. Ask the Jews of Warsaw how that turned out.

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    It is the most reactive, after-the-horse-has-left-the-barn way of arranging a community securely and guaranteeing the safety of the individuals within it. Indeed it is hard to imagine a community attitude toward safety with less foresight than that of American gun culture.
    Again backwards. Your position says I should get beaten up and possibly killed, and we only worry about it when the cops arrive half an hour later. It's NOT being able to defend yourself that is a "after-the-horse-has-left-the-barn way of arranging a community securely" -- you wait until after people have been murdered or raped or assaulted to do anything.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  50. #150
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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    American gun culture is about responsibility and civic duty. For some it is even about survival. A gun is a sacred object to be treated with respect. One of the major problems facing safety with guns is a deterioration of American gun culture in recreational gun use. Tragedy strikes when American gun culture is betrayed, and guns end up in the wrong person's hands. No one should support a gun free for all or deregulation. American gun culture must be ordained by education and law, or we will continue to see gun violence. Trying to stamp it out also won't work. Gun ownership is in our blood.
    Last edited by Alnitak; March 27th, 2014 at 03:19 PM.

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