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  1. #51
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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    Quote Originally Posted by mitchymo View Post
    The reason is not a humane one,
    One could easily argue that keeping certain prisoners in tiny rooms for hours and hours a day on end with no human contact is inhumane. Give it a try sometime and I'm sure it won't take you long to feel the effects. Does that mean we shouldn't lock dangerous criminals up?

    I want to ask all of you whether or not you were happy when, say, Osama bin Laden was killed. Yes, I know he wasn't an American citizen on trial in a courtroom, but he was an individual who committed heinous crimes against humanity, and he was hunted down and killed. If he was, for whatever reason, captured alive, would you have supported his right to live? Because frankly, if you wouldn't have, then you're being completely hypocritical.
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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    Quote Originally Posted by PolterGUYst View Post
    One could easily argue that keeping certain prisoners in tiny rooms for hours and hours a day on end with no human contact is inhumane. Give it a try sometime and I'm sure it won't take you long to feel the effects. Does that mean we shouldn't lock dangerous criminals up?

    I want to ask you people whether or not you were happy when, say, Osama Bin Laden was killed. Yes, I know he wasn't an American citizen on trial in a courtroom, but he was an individual who committed heinous crimes against humanity, and he was hunted down and killed. If he was captured alive, would you have supported his right to live?
    Yes, because I do not permit him to impose his sense of justice upon my choices.

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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    But it's okay that he was shot and killed, right? It's okay that he was basically sentenced to death for his crimes? Are you going to tell me that you were disgusted when you heard he was killed? For all intents and purposes, he was given the death penalty - the US government took away his life. Do you consider that wrong?
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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    He was going to be seen as a martyr to extremists regardless of what was done to him.
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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    Quote Originally Posted by PolterGUYst View Post
    I want to ask all of you whether or not you were happy when, say, Osama bin Laden was killed. Yes, I know he wasn't an American citizen on trial in a courtroom, but he was an individual who committed heinous crimes against humanity, and he was hunted down and killed. If he was, for whatever reason, captured alive, would you have supported his right to live? Because frankly, if you wouldn't have, then you're being completely hypocritical.
    It is illegal for the US government to go out and assassinate people. Is that always enforced? I don't have a clue.

    What happened to Bin Laden isn't applicable, there are too many other factors involved that set him apart from serial killers. If you want to draw a parallel, use Timothy McVeigh, who was tried and convicted under out system.

    The question for me and most people is not whether there are evil people, it's whether you are willing to accept executing the inevitable innocent or two in order to execute the rest.

    Well? Are you?

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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    I'll answer this. Yes, I think he should have been tried and sent to prison for the rest of his life. It also wouldn't create a martyr. I'm against the death penalty in all circumstances.
    Unless there are serious questions surrounding their guilt, those that are executed aren't viewed as anything resembling martyrs after they die. Most often, they're just forgotten, as if they never existed.

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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    It is illegal for the US government to go out and assassinate people. Is that always enforced? I don't have a clue.

    What happened to Bin Laden isn't applicable, there are too many other factors involved that set him apart from serial killers. If you want to draw a parallel, use Timothy McVeigh, who was tried and convicted under out system.

    The question for me and most people is not whether there are evil people, it's whether you are willing to accept executing the inevitable innocent or two in order to execute the rest.

    Well? Are you?
    The answer any thinking person would give is no. However, it is not an all or nothing situation as you are attempting to cast it. Just because execution exists does not mean that there will always be one or two innocents executed among the rest.

    What is needed are stricter usage guidelines for it. Simple murder is not enough to justify its use. Situations like that case I posted above, or with McVeigh, should be up for discussion.

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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    Quote Originally Posted by JB3 View Post
    The answer any thinking person would give is no. However, it is not an all or nothing situation as you are attempting to cast it. Just because execution exists does not mean that there will always be one or two innocents executed among the rest.

    What is needed are stricter usage guidelines for it. Simple murder is not enough to justify its use. Situations like that case I posted above, or with McVeigh, should be up for discussion.
    In fact it is an all or nothing situation because there is no judicial system that is without error. Period. Every system that uses capitol punishment in the history of mankind has executed the innocent, sometimes egregiously so. It only becomes a grey area once you can guarantee that no innocents will be executed.

    As it stands, you are either willing to accept that, or you are not. I'm not making a value judgment as you are attempting to cast it. fact is that a lot of people are willing to overlook that.

    I bring it up because people inevitably argue that X is heinous and deserves to die - therefore death penalty.

    X may in fact be heinous and deserve to die, but Y was innocent and we killed him anyway, can you accept that?

    Tight controls on the death penalty, waiting periods, mandatory appeals are a very good idea if you're going to use it, and Texas became the execution capital of the nation because those things were relaxed, by people who argued X is heinous ad deserves to die and were perfectly willing to sacrifice a few innocents along the way - as it has been comprehensively proven we have done a lot more than once, we also execute the mentally retarded, but even tight controls and checks DO NOT guarantee infallibility.

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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    Not exactly ,jb3. He still would be viewed as a martyr... who died at American hands.

    Still doesn't change the fact that the death penalty is immoral and barbaric. It has no place in any modern legal system.
    In your opinion. Others disagree.

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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    In fact it is an all or nothing situation because there is no judicial system that is without error. Period. Every system that uses capitol punishment in the history of mankind has executed the innocent, sometimes egregiously so. It only becomes a grey area once you can guarantee that no innocents will be executed.

    As it stands, you are either willing to accept that, or you are not. I'm not making a value judgment as you are attempting to cast it. fact is that a lot of people are willing to overlook that.

    I bring it up because people inevitably argue that X is heinous and deserves to die - therefore death penalty.

    X may in fact be heinous and deserve to die, but Y was innocent and we killed him anyway, can you accept that?

    Tight controls on the death penalty, waiting periods, mandatory appeals are a very good idea if you're going to use it, and Texas became the execution capital of the nation because those things were relaxed, by people who argued X is heinous ad deserves to die and were perfectly willing to sacrifice a few innocents along the way - as it has been comprehensively proven we have done a lot more than once, we also execute the mentally retarded, but even tight controls and checks DO NOT guarantee infallibility.
    It is most certainly not all or nothing, and you ignored the rest of my post on how you can make it so. The only people that make the argument that it is all or nothing are those with an agenda against the death penalty. Tighter controls, and a much more limited application would eliminate the possibility of any innocents being executed. If the pool of those criminals that is eligible for death is limited severely, and the requirements for any sentence of death, it would certainly eliminate the possibility of an innocent individual being executed.

  11. #61
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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    I didn't ignore anything, and there is no way you can eliminate the possibility of innocents being executed in any system run by humans.

    All you're saying is that we'll just make it harder - which is fine and a good idea; then pretend it's infallible - which is not.

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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    Quote Originally Posted by palemale View Post
    Most of the states that still execute people in this country have a large population of people of Scotch-Irish descent. Benjamin Franklin described the Scotch-Irish as white savages. Savages support state-sanctioned murder of people. I think this should answer the op's question.
    Um...Massachusetts doesn't have a death penalty. (There are a *LOT* of Irish in Massachusetts.)

    Does Texas have the highest percentage of Scottish-Irish descent of all the states? I don't think so.

    But what matters is not the demographics of the entire state, but the demographics of those who write the laws.
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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    This is a very weak argument. The death penalty again is a long process, where the execution date could be many years away and it actually costs more then a life sentence. So that's a fallacious argument.
    I've ALWAYS **hated** this argument. Of course it's absolutely true - but it's also one that the Deathers love to seize upon and, therefore, say that the judicial process needs to be streamlined. Possible exculpatory evidence which might lead to an acquittal? That's a plot complication - "we don't want THAT - it will just make the process longer." Run the appeals through quickly and fry him.

    G, I agree with everything you said in this post, 100%. No number of executions has ever brought back one murdered person, and if the possibility of an extreme sentence isn't a deterrent, a possible death sentence isn't either. Generally nobody does a premeditated murder unless they think they can get away with it, unless they're considering the possibility of dying themselves (either via suicide, or suicide-by-cop).
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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    Quote Originally Posted by PolterGUYst View Post
    One could easily argue that keeping certain prisoners in tiny rooms for hours and hours a day on end with no human contact is inhumane. Give it a try sometime and I'm sure it won't take you long to feel the effects. Does that mean we shouldn't lock dangerous criminals up?

    I want to ask all of you whether or not you were happy when, say, Osama bin Laden was killed. Yes, I know he wasn't an American citizen on trial in a courtroom, but he was an individual who committed heinous crimes against humanity, and he was hunted down and killed. If he was, for whatever reason, captured alive, would you have supported his right to live? Because frankly, if you wouldn't have, then you're being completely hypocritical.
    Actually, in bin-Laden's case, if he had been captured alive and sentenced to life without chance of parole, that would have been a FAR greater punishment for his deeds. Being killed as a martyr (or however it may be looked at) is one of the pinnacles and honors for some people of the Islamic faith, so it is entirely possible that the outcome wasn't a "punishment" for him at all and, therefore, he was possibly held entirely unaccountable for his deeds.
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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    I'll answer this. Yes, I think he should have been tried and sent to prison for the rest of his life. It also wouldn't create a martyr. I'm against the death penalty in all circumstances.
    Uhh...you beat me to it (you have a knack of doing that, haha)
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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    Tight controls on the death penalty, waiting periods, mandatory appeals are a very good idea if you're going to use it, and Texas became the execution capital of the nation because those things were relaxed, by people who argued X is heinous ad deserves to die and were perfectly willing to sacrifice a few innocents along the way - as it has been comprehensively proven we have done a lot more than once, we also execute the mentally retarded, but even tight controls and checks DO NOT guarantee infallibility.
    Just curious, TX-beau, how long is the process from initial conviction to death in Texas...and, compared to elsewhere? I'm willing to bet that it is much more quick and streamlined than in most other places, which allows for shoddy verdicts and sloppy discovery, etc. The more shortcuts there are, the more likely it is that innocents will be killed.
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  17. #67
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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    Quote Originally Posted by JB3 View Post
    What is needed are stricter usage guidelines for it. Simple murder is not enough to justify its use. Situations like that case I posted above, or with McVeigh, should be up for discussion.
    Exactly. Nobody says it's okay that innocent people are sent to death. It's absolutely terrible. The guidelines should be very strict. The death penalty applies in very rare circumstances, but there have been and will be certain circumstances where there is no doubt regarding the person's guilt to heinous crimes.

    The defense that "well, you could be killing an innocent person" isn't a good argument against the death penalty in my eyes as the exact same thing could be said about any type of punishment inflicted on a person who is wrongfully found guilty, and I highly doubt most of you guys would support the elimination of our entire penal system because this has happened before. Using that logic, why don't we eliminate life in prison without the possibility of parole, also an extremely harsh and devastating sentence (some might argue a punishment worse than death if they believe the experience to be torturous), just because innocent people have been wrongly convicted before? The answer is because the issue you have is not with the punishment of life in prison itself, but with the legal process that determines when such a punishment is appropriate.
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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    Guidelines aren't perfect. The death penalty should never be applied. And yes, it's a very good argument against the usage of the death penalty because even with the so called guidelines you can still have mistakes. There is a reason why most developed countries have phased out capital punishment.

    And life without parole can be reduced or eliminated, and the person set free if they are found to be innocent. If you execute them, and they are found to be innocent after the fact, you can't bring the person back. Now, your argument isn't a good one.
    Hence making it very, very limited, with very strict guidelines for its usage.

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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    Quote Originally Posted by frankfrank View Post
    Just curious, TX-beau, how long is the process from initial conviction to death in Texas...and, compared to elsewhere? I'm willing to bet that it is much more quick and streamlined than in most other places, which allows for shoddy verdicts and sloppy discovery, etc. The more shortcuts there are, the more likely it is that innocents will be killed.
    I don't know. I think it depends on several things. One of the biggest problems though, is that the board of appeals are all political appointees - who like to appear tough on crime, just so you know, no one can say they weren't when they run for the Texas legislature.

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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    Quote Originally Posted by PolterGUYst View Post
    Exactly. Nobody says it's okay that innocent people are sent to death. It's absolutely terrible. The guidelines should be very strict. The death penalty applies in very rare circumstances, but there have been and will be certain circumstances where there is no doubt regarding the person's guilt to heinous crimes.
    Every court that ever imposed the death penalty was certain of the defendant's guilt and heinousness - or they wouldn't have imposed it. That didn't make them infallible.

    Quote Originally Posted by PolterGUYst View Post
    The defense that "well, you could be killing an innocent person" isn't a good argument against the death penalty in my eyes as the exact same thing could be said about any type of punishment inflicted on a person who is wrongfully found guilty, and I highly doubt most of you guys would support the elimination of our entire penal system because this has happened before. Using that logic, why don't we eliminate life in prison without the possibility of parole, also an extremely harsh and devastating sentence (some might argue a punishment worse than death if they believe the experience to be torturous), just because innocent people have been wrongly convicted before? The answer is because the issue you have is not with the punishment of life in prison itself, but with the legal process that determines when such a punishment is appropriate.
    This is just an emotional jump to extremes. Not logic. There is no parallel between a sentence that can be reversed, and one there is no possibility of reversing.

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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    You can't "reverse" a sentence like that. First of all, there are innocent people who have died in prison. Second of all, even for those who have been found not guilty after the fact, the damage has already been done. Their name has been soiled, years of their life wasted, abandoned by family and friends, been forced to live through an extremely traumatic experience that some will never be able to recover from. And, as I said, some may view life in prison to be torturous and therefore a worse sentence than death.

    If the defense against having harsh punishment is that there have been innocent people convicted before, then why are there not more people in favor of eliminating other punishments for the same reason? That is why, for me, that argument against the death penalty doesn't fly.
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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    There are plenty of people who deplore the state of our prisons - but the fact remains, that for everything BUT the death penalty there is room for error.

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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    There are plenty of people who deplore the state of our prisons - but the fact remains, that for everything BUT the death penalty there is room for error.
    You cannot in one breath argue that there is no room for error with the death penalty, and in another say that there is room for error with prison sentences. You're basically saying that its perfectly okay for the defects in the system to exist, as long as only prison is involved. What I've been saying is that ANY defects at all are unacceptable.

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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    I'm not even talking about the state of the prisons. Even if they were cleaned up, many would consider a sentence of life in prison to be torturous.

    And arguing that finding a person not-guilty after having ruined their life is "room for error" is shaky at best. I've never gone through it myself so I couldn't say what my thoughts would be for sure in such a situation, but I can certainly envision myself relishing the idea of death if I had my lovely life absolutely destroyed after a wrongful conviction, so saying that it's somehow better to be wrongfully convicted and then found innocent than to not live at all is entirely subjective.
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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    Quote Originally Posted by JB3 View Post
    You cannot in one breath argue that there is no room for error with the death penalty, and in another say that there is room for error with prison sentences. You're basically saying that its perfectly okay for the defects in the system to exist, as long as only prison is involved. What I've been saying is that ANY defects at all are unacceptable.
    Huh? I didn't say anything about how it's just peachy keen to have defects in the system, that was invented by the two of you not me.

    In fact I'm stating CATEGORICALLY that there are defects in the system and it's NOT ok, and that's why irreversible measures SHOULD NOT be taken.

    Once you execute someone that's it. Lock someone up and throw away the key, and you can still get a locksmith to come let them out.

    Can you give them their years back? Hell no, but what would you rather have, be dead and exonerated? Or still be alive and be exonerated?


    Quote Originally Posted by PolterGUYst View Post
    I'm not even talking about the state of the prisons. Even if they were cleaned up, many would consider a sentence of life in prison to be torturous.

    And arguing that finding a person not-guilty after having ruined their life is "room for error" is shaky at best. I've never gone through it myself so I couldn't say what my thoughts would be for sure in such a situation, but I can certainly envision myself relishing the idea of death if I had my lovely life absolutely destroyed after a wrongful conviction, so somehow saying that it's better to be wrongfully convicted and then found innocent is better than death is entirely subjective.
    That's a silly comparison for anyone advocating EXECUTION. It's just so kind is it, they why are you LETTING heinous evilness GET OFF with execution? Should you not be demanding life without parole since then they'll come to "...relish the idea of death.."

    Tell my why are you so soft on evil heinousness? LOL

  26. #76

    Re: Death penality in American's states

    Quote Originally Posted by frankfrank View Post
    Um...Massachusetts doesn't have a death penalty. (There are a *LOT* of Irish in Massachusetts.)

    Does Texas have the highest percentage of Scottish-Irish descent of all the states? I don't think so.

    But what matters is not the demographics of the entire state, but the demographics of those who write the laws.
    The Scotch-Irish are descendants of Scottish protestant settlers the British brought to Northern Ireland after evicting the native Irish Catholics from huge swaths of land in Ulster. The Irish in Massachusetts, and most of the Northeast, are almost entirely Irish Catholics.

    FYI, many of our early presidents were of Scotch-Irish descent, like Jackson, Polk, Buchanon, Grant, as well as a couple of 20th Century ones, like McKinley and Nixon.

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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    That's a rather specific prejudice you've got there.

  28. #78

    Re: Death penality in American's states

    Not a prejudice, just an observation. The Scotch-Irish had a huge impact on the South's political culture. Senator James Webb of Virginia wrote a very highly regarded book about them.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/0..._n_102915.html

    http://www.ashbrook.org/publicat/ope...s/04/webb.html

    I also do not disagree with Webb's analysis.

  29. #79
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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    I didn't see anything in there about how that ethnic group is why there is a death penalty.

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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    Quote Originally Posted by PolterGUYst View Post
    Using that logic, why don't we eliminate life in prison without the possibility of parole, also an extremely harsh and devastating sentence (some might argue a punishment worse than death if they believe the experience to be torturous), just because innocent people have been wrongly convicted before? The answer is because the issue you have is not with the punishment of life in prison itself, but with the legal process that determines when such a punishment is appropriate.
    There is one big difference: If the convicted person is later found to be innocent, a life-without-parole sentence can be vacated, and that person freed. If the person has been executed, it is no longer possible to make it correct.

    [Good Lord, GiancarloC...you beat me to it again! You really do have a knack of doing that, LOL.]
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  31. #81
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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    Loosen gun control laws a bit more, strengthen self defense laws and let them out all on one day....
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  32. #82
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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    Quote Originally Posted by cynicus View Post
    I've always thought life without parole is a worse sentence than death. To live within a prison with no hope of release is to me the ultimate penalty--which I would prefer.
    I've known three people who have spent time in prison. All three have reported that inside the walls, the lifers are kings: they have no restraints, because they're already being punished as much as society will do. They command the gangs who rule by violence. If anything good is sent to someone, they get a cut. Often, guards even fear them, because they can mobilize other inmate to kill or main any guard they please.

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisrobin View Post
    If I were to have a change of heart... if we had executions, I think they should be televised. Fox could broadcast them live. Think of the ratings! I think the condemned prisoner convulsing after a lethal injection would be a real crowd-pleaser! (especially the "right-to-lifers")
    Forget injections; they have side effects too often that result in pain.
    Bring back the guillotine: quick, painless, and definitely good for ratings.

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    One of the reasons we need the death penalty is to protect society from liberal judges, eager to release vicious criminals into society on technicalities. It is only way to insure finality.
    So you consider the U.S. Founding Fathers to have been liberals? They had a legal maxim back then (from Blackstone, I think):

    Better a hundred guilty walk free than one innocent man be punished.


    Jefferson once cited it as "Better a thousand guilty walk free . . . "

    That should be on the wall of every jury room, and the back of every courtroom where judges have to see it every day.



    As fr the death penalty, generally it belongs in only one place: at the hands of the intended victim.

    I'll grant the state such authority only under certain conditions:

    • premeditated
    • shockingly heinous
    • multiple witnesses at the scene OR action caught on video
    • DNA confirmation
    • then three juries: one to decide if the crime is shockingly heinous; one to judge guilt; one to judge the convincingness of the evidence -- and no jury gets to know what the others have decided


    And the prosecutor signs a contract saying that if evidence ever appears the person was innocent, he will serve the standard sentence for a felony.

    Under those conditions, I'd accept a death penalty.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    It is illegal for the US government to go out and assassinate people. Is that always enforced? I don't have a clue.
    Actually, at the moment it is legal -- if they designate the person as an important terrorist. Saudi, Pakistani, Egyptian, American, French -- doesn't matter, if the president and his cabal try them in absentia over coffee and tell the CIA the drines are 'go'.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    All hail Mad King George.

  35. #85
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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    All hail Mad King George.
    When George W. Bush was in office, I sometimes thought of him as "King George the Fhrer'th" (a phrase I borrowed from a friend in Michigan)

    But, if that's the case, we kind of have a "King George The 5th" now, but that doesn't allow a pun...
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  36. #86
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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    Quote Originally Posted by frankfrank View Post
    When George W. Bush was in office, I sometimes thought of him as "King George the Fhrer'th" (a phrase I borrowed from a friend in Michigan)

    But, if that's the case, we kind of have a "King George The 5th" now, but that doesn't allow a pun...
    Photoshop it onto a bottle of whiskey.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  37. #87
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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    For those interested about executions pending in the US, here is a link to the National Coalition to Abolish the Death Penalty.
    If you will look at the column on the right of this link you will see all the executions that are pending. Get involved if you want, if not then don't come to me with complaints about this post.

    http://www.ncadp.org/

    National Coalition to Abolish the Death Penalty

    NCADP: Devoted to Abolishing Capital Punishment
    BEWARE! Harassing the Indian may result in sudden and severe hair loss.

  38. #88
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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    Ironic fact: in Oregon we have a guy who asked to have the death penalty just carried out. That was his sentence, I forget how many years ago. He fired his attorneys and told the judge he wanted the sentence carried out. The judge had him evaluated, decided he was mentally competent to make such a decision, and set a date.

    The governor stepped in, so now the guy has to keep serving what he calls inhumane punishment: being locked away from the world.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  39. #89
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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    Does appear CT will be doing away with the DP very soon.

  40. #90

    Re: Death penality in American's states

    The backward countries have the death penalty. America prides itself to be a great democracy, but it is a country where firearms 's market is free .... and where the state kills people. It's terrible.

  41. #91
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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    Any particular reason why you brought up this old thread?

    We banned the death penalty in the 1970s, the the Supreme Court chickened out and reversed it.

    It is very rarely used as I understand Texas is the only state that still does them regularly.

  42. #92
    Know thyself kallipolis's Avatar
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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    The status of capital punishment in the United States:

    http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/stat...-death-penalty

  43. #93
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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    The status of capital punishment in the United States:

    http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/stat...-death-penalty
    Executions are dropping precipitously. It is getting more difficult to get a jury to send convicts to death row and for a number of reasons. The innocence project has proven many convicts innocent. Convicts in the US are also disproportionately black. It is also just plainly a less sensible punishment than it was in days past. My state repealed the death penalty last year, and I expect the governor to commute the sentences of the remaining death row inmates.

  44. #94
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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    Spin it any way you wish the facts remain that the majority (32) of American states retain the death penalty....

  45. #95
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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    Spin it any way you wish the facts remain that the majority (32) of American states retain the death penalty....
    I don't know what spin has to do with anything. We are discussing the status of capital punishment in the United States not strictly how many theoretically can execute by statute.

    A majority of those 32 states have not carried out an execution in this decade. The engine of executions is unquestionably Texas, followed by Virginia and Oklahoma. The three states are responsible for a majority of executions in the last 40 years. They do not speak for the whole country, and certainly not most of the other 29 states that very rarely use the death penalty today if ever.
    Last edited by Alnitak; March 26th, 2014 at 04:20 AM.

  46. #96
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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    Spinning the facts with a more optimistic view does not change reality that the majority of American states retain the right to execute....

  47. #97
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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    Spinning the facts with a more optimistic view does not change reality that the majority of American states retain the right to execute....
    And why is that practically important?

    By the way, I never gave an opinion. I just stated facts. That you judge the facts to be optimistic is actually ironic.

  48. #98
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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    The fact remains that the majority of American states retain the right to execute....that today this right is not being exercised as once it was, does not change the fact that many states retain the right to execute....spin that fact any way you wish....until the laws are changed that fact of death remains on the statute books of many states....

  49. #99
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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    What exactly is your point Kallipolis? No one spun anything, except for you - he mentioned that executions are down for a number of reasons, and the best you have to offer is that "well, okay, but it's still on the books!"?

    Might as well talk to a wall, see if I can blow it down.
    "Theres death on the horizon,

    and Ill run to behold your sacrifice..."

  50. #100
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    Re: Death penality in American's states

    ^Clearly you have over looked this post 115...spun to defend the indefensible that the majority of American states retain the right to execute....in simple English the right to execute remains on the statute books...bruising nationalist sensibilities...much:

    Any particular reason why you brought up this old thread?

    We banned the death penalty in the 1970s, the the Supreme Court chickened out and reversed it.

    It is very rarely used as I understand Texas is the only state that still does them regularly.
    Last edited by kallipolis; March 26th, 2014 at 08:33 AM.

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