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    Windows 8 Consumer Preview

    I'm a mac person, for the most part. I use it for my daily computing, but I still have my tried and true windows computer. My question is this:
    I downloaded and used the Windows 8 dev preview for a short time, but it was so buggy and just useless to me (as it would just freeze up and I would lose everything I was doing). Has anybody used the new consumer preview and found it to be better? I'm just lazy and don't feel like going through the motions to install it and find that I still can't use it, and then have to go through the motions to revert =/.

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    aww I wanted to explode looseliam's Avatar
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    Re: Windows 8 Consumer Preview

    Naah I haven't used it yet.

    I'm back to the way I was with windows 3.11/nt 3.51 : shell replacements.

    I can't even begin to describe how much I loathe the new shell.

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    Re: Windows 8 Consumer Preview

    I am a Mac person too and I found Windows 8 to be terrible. The Metro UI leaves much to be desired on a standard desktop/notebook computer. Things are also just messy and disjointed. With the Start Screen, MS is making it necessary to go switch back and forth from the different UI's and it's not a great experience for me. I don't think the reliance upon Hot Corners is great either. The charms bar just feels sloppy and thrown in.

    Also, the programs they have are just weird as there are duplicates. For example, in Windows 8 there are two versions of Internet Explorer. One for metro and one for desktop. I guess I get that, but I just think there would be a better implementation. I mean, these two versions don't even interact with each other. It might be nicer if they could sync?

    Another thing I found sloppy and highly unintuitive was the fact that there were two control panels. One was the traditional "Control Panel" found in Windows and the other is "PC Settings" which is effectively the CP for the metro half. I highly dislike this, however I guess I see their reasoning. Tablet users wouldn't want to go into the desktop (which isn't optimized for touch) to change things. Another thing that confused me was the fact that there seemed to be two versions of Windows Update. Each version only gives you the updates for the specific half you are in. If you are in Metro's Update, you only get Metro updates. I would have assumed that each version would have download every update available for the entire system.

    There are just a lot of weird things. I mean, when Windows 8 boots on a desktop it boots into a lock screen. That would work fine on a tablet, but not on a desktop. Then you have to click or click and slide to get to the log on screen. It's just bizarre IMO.

    Despite the things I dislike, I can't see what Microsoft could better because I feel like the concept of Windows 8 is deeply flawed. Apple is creating two distinct OS's and is simply bringing features over from the tablet to the desktop. They aren't destroying anything. This leaves two good OS's that have each been optimized for the specific input methods they use. Windows 8 is trying to make one OS for them all, and when you do this I feel that you are making compromises at the expense of both platforms.

    I don't see Windows 8 going over well for a lot of people. A lot of computer illiterate people are going to be confused. I don't know how I would go about teaching my dad for example. I also don't think that enterprise customers are going to like it. If MS doesn't allow Metro to be turned off, then I think businesses would go no further than 7.

    Microsoft is trying to innovate, which is a good thing. However, I don't think they are doing anything good. They are taking Windows 7, a relatively good OS and are changing it is ways that it doesn't need to be changed.

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    On the Prowl pilotguy121a's Avatar
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    Re: Windows 8 Consumer Preview

    Haven't had a chance to check out Windows 8. I too am on a Mac but I run a Bootcamp partition. Sounds like Microsoft is trying to prepare for the future, you know the one where we all use touchscreen devices. Unfortunately, as much as I love touchscreens, I still prefer a keyboard and mouse to do papers and work with certain programs. And from what you are saying Arcturus, it sounds like Microsoft really didn't integrate anything, just threw it all out there and saw what stuck.

    I suppose that Microsoft is also trying to emulate OSX Lion, as it incorporates multi-touch gestures, like those you find on iOS devices.

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    Re: Windows 8 Consumer Preview

    The problem is that touchscreen devices aren't good for a lot of things. They are good for content consumption, but not creation. I can't imagine trying to write a paper on an iPad, even with the Apple Wireless Keyboard. When I write a paper I have tons of browser windows open and lots of things on the screen open at the same time. Tablets aren't really good for that.

    I didn't run a bootcamp partition. I just used a virtual machine, which is why I am not commenting on speed. It seemed okay though.

    I really do think that Microsoft just threw a bunch of stuff together. When I first installed it I knew that I was getting two OS's at once. I just expected some sort of integration. It's disjointed and not an experience. Again, I am going to compare them to Apple. Apple is bringing tablet apps to OS X, however, they are creating desktop versions that have been optimized for use on a desktop OS. Microsoft is expecting people to use tablet apps on your desktop. I just think they are trying so hard to diversify themselves and seem unique that they aren't thinking if these are good decisions or not.

    If I was Microsoft, I would split the OS's up. There could be a Windows 8 Tablet Edition with just the Metro and there could be all of the Windows 8 Desktop Editions that look the same as Windows 7 (and function the same) but have all the improvements that 8 offers under the hood. I would do either that, or perhaps sell one version of 8 (perhaps the Enterprise version) that is Metro free. Or, even just the ability to disable Metro and tablet portions of it. I know in the Developer Preview I was able to screw around with the Registry and turn it off. But I am not sure if you can do that in 8 and it probably wouldn't be a good option for a lot of people.

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    Re: Windows 8 Consumer Preview

    Windows 8 will suck because it must follow the Microsoft pattern.

    95 - awesome
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  7. #7
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    Re: Windows 8 Consumer Preview

    We'll have to see what happens with this. It could still develop further. Windows 8 looks like an exciting prospect at least for me and my uses. I've used it one hard-drive I have... it's pretty interesting.

    Mac users have a big agenda against microsoft, so I would tell people to try it for themselves. Don't use it in substitution of Windows 7 though. If you have an extra hard-drive, try it out.

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    Re: Windows 8 Consumer Preview

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    We'll have to see what happens with this. It could still develop further. Windows 8 looks like an exciting prospect at least for me and my uses. I've used it one hard-drive I have... it's pretty interesting.

    Mac users have a big agenda against microsoft, so I would tell people to try it for themselves. Don't use it in substitution of Windows 7 though. If you have an extra hard-drive, try it out.
    Of course it's interesting and yes it will develop further. Hopefully Microsoft will take feedback that they get and improve it.

    No, Mac users do not have a big agenda against Microsoft (some do, but the vast majority do not). Stop generalizing. I know lots of Mac users. 70% of the computer users at my university are Mac users and they don't care. Pretty much all Mac users have Office for Mac 2008/2011 installed on their systems and use it daily. Does that sound like someone who would have an agenda against Microsoft? Lots of people who have Macs dual boot Windows on their system with BootCamp or utilize a VM to use Windows as well. Hell, if you even read my posts you would see that I said that Windows 7 was a good OS. Just because we choose to use a Mac doesn't mean we hate Microsoft. How would you like it if I said that PC users have a big agenda against Apple? They don't (though it seems you do, because anytime anyone mentions Apple you have to insert a snide comment). It's just about as accurate as your statement.

    Lets not turn this into another 'iPad Killer' thread though. There is no reason to argue.

  9. #9
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Windows 8 Consumer Preview

    It's in the developmental stage. Major changes can still happen. It's what I saw about Windows 7, when I was using it in beta mode... it changed definitely. There was many issues with Windows 7 at first, but they were all hammered out pretty quickly.

    I think the issue here is many are very dismissive of Microsoft. And what's my agenda against Apple? I don't have anything to be jealous of their products like computers, OS, MP3 players or TV device (which has nothing on Roku, but that's another topic completely).

  10. #10
    aww I wanted to explode looseliam's Avatar
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    Re: Windows 8 Consumer Preview

    Well the consumer preview seems to be running better than the developer preview (see usable).

    It kept crashing in virtualbox on install with an error code relating to defective ram. Seeing that I have fully-buffered ECC ram and a motherboard that monitors the ram were any bad there'd be beeping, leds flashing and kernel panics I'd imagine. A couple force restarts and it loaded. I think it may be a bug in the software or oracle's virtualbox.

    Though the UI still gets on my tits, I'll give it a chance before condemning it.

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    On the Prowl pilotguy121a's Avatar
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    Re: Windows 8 Consumer Preview

    I'm interested in trying it but...my superdrive took a crap on me and I doubt it will play nice with Apple hardware. I guess I'll have to play with it on my families W7 computer when I get a chance.

    And yeah, us Mac users really don't have a vendetta against Microsoft, I was a Windows user all up until 2.5 years ago. And still have it on my Mac, as well as Office (which is the best program Microsoft makes, =p).

  12. #12
    aww I wanted to explode looseliam's Avatar
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    Re: Windows 8 Consumer Preview

    ^ you should be able to run it in a virtual machine. There are a couple settings one has to tweak in the VM, but it's fairly straight forward.

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    On the Prowl pilotguy121a's Avatar
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    Re: Windows 8 Consumer Preview

    Like a virtual machine through Windows 7 or Lion? I am assuming Lion. But either way, the SuperDrive on my MBP took a crap on me the other day. I have one from ebay (fingers crossed) coming in hopefully tomorrow.

  14. #14
    aww I wanted to explode looseliam's Avatar
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    Re: Windows 8 Consumer Preview

    IIRC mac has 'parallels' for running OS's in virtual machines.

    You don't need much space for the vms, depending on what you're doing.

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    Re: Windows 8 Consumer Preview

    I've played around some with windows 7, & honestly don't care too much for the interface .. and I hate the fact that networking it is a real pain (have yet to get that to work right)

    Didn't know there was a Win 8 preview out..sure if I had an extra high-powered computer just laying around, it would be fun to install & play with LOL .. I'd get to see just how much I wouldn't want the thing (but who has extra computers just sitting unused?)

    Personally for windows versions, I'll stick with the 3 I've currently got:
    Win3.11-for workgroups
    Win98se
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    Re: Windows 8 Consumer Preview

    The way I was seeing it was not so much as microsoft making a disjointed system, or making it so people had to use tablet apps on their desktop as much as trying to make everything one system. I remember reading something a while back when 8 was announced that their idea was that windows tablets/phones/computers would all have the same system, so devs would have it a lot easier in terms of app creation and the like. Like I said, the one problem I had with the dev preview was that it just kept crashing and freezing up to the point of being unusable. I also don't want to judge the beta by its interface as Microsoft still has some time to hammer things out, and see how people react to it. What microsoft devs think and what the general public think are going to be two different things. A lot can change. I just, like I said, don't want to waste my time partitioning and downloading and installing (god knows Comcast in my area is slow as sin, so downloading would take about a day by itself) just to find out that it was just as buggy as the dev preview.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcturus View Post
    The problem is that touchscreen devices aren't good for a lot of things. They are good for content consumption, but not creation. I can't imagine trying to write a paper on an iPad, even with the Apple Wireless Keyboard. When I write a paper I have tons of browser windows open and lots of things on the screen open at the same time. Tablets aren't really good for that.

    I didn't run a bootcamp partition. I just used a virtual machine, which is why I am not commenting on speed. It seemed okay though.

    I really do think that Microsoft just threw a bunch of stuff together. When I first installed it I knew that I was getting two OS's at once. I just expected some sort of integration. It's disjointed and not an experience. Again, I am going to compare them to Apple. Apple is bringing tablet apps to OS X, however, they are creating desktop versions that have been optimized for use on a desktop OS. Microsoft is expecting people to use tablet apps on your desktop. I just think they are trying so hard to diversify themselves and seem unique that they aren't thinking if these are good decisions or not.

    If I was Microsoft, I would split the OS's up. There could be a Windows 8 Tablet Edition with just the Metro and there could be all of the Windows 8 Desktop Editions that look the same as Windows 7 (and function the same) but have all the improvements that 8 offers under the hood. I would do either that, or perhaps sell one version of 8 (perhaps the Enterprise version) that is Metro free. Or, even just the ability to disable Metro and tablet portions of it. I know in the Developer Preview I was able to screw around with the Registry and turn it off. But I am not sure if you can do that in 8 and it probably wouldn't be a good option for a lot of people.

  17. #17
    aww I wanted to explode looseliam's Avatar
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    Re: Windows 8 Consumer Preview

    Quote Originally Posted by 72-Jay View Post
    I've played around some with windows 7, & honestly don't care too much for the interface .. and I hate the fact that networking it is a real pain (have yet to get that to work right)

    Didn't know there was a Win 8 preview out..sure if I had an extra high-powered computer just laying around, it would be fun to install & play with LOL .. I'd get to see just how much I wouldn't want the thing (but who has extra computers just sitting unused?)

    Personally for windows versions, I'll stick with the 3 I've currently got:
    Win3.11-for workgroups
    Win98se
    Win Xp
    Not necessarily. I assigned W8 1 core and 2GB of ram and it seems to run just fine.

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    Re: Windows 8 Consumer Preview

    Well I got around to installing the consumer preview and, well, I agree it is kinda bizarre. Arcturus pointed out many of the things I noticed to be odd and unintuitive. Having said that, it installed quickly and seems to be working pretty good. I am running it on a bootcamp partition, so I expected issues, but all the Apple drivers installed without a hitch. Most programs from W7 seem to work just fine on W8, though this isn't really a surprise.

    Should be rather interesting to see what the final release version looks like. My bet is, a few bugs will be cleaned up, processes more streamlined, but all in all, WYSIWYG.

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    Re: Windows 8 Consumer Preview

    Lion is "meh" enough that it would make me at least look at what windows is doing these days. It's been a decade so maybe they've done something great…but i don't think so. This Metro UI just looks stupid. They're copying the stupid things that Mac OS is doing. The spaces. The full screen. The flatness-slash-boringness of it.

    Simple is not the same as plain. Bleh.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

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    Re: Windows 8 Consumer Preview

    Quote Originally Posted by looseliam
    Not necessarily. I assigned W8 1 core and 2GB of ram and it seems to run just fine.
    I don't have anything nearly that powerfull in even as the whole system! LOL .. so couldn't do that

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    Re: Windows 8 Consumer Preview

    I wouldn't say that they are copying Mac OS. I used to have windows phone 7 until Sprint finally picked up the iPhone (thank god). The phone itself sucked, but the software and os wasn't terrible. The metro ui isn't terrible on the phones. I like it a lot better than iPhone apps, in some circumstances (the constant updated information, the way you don't have to open apps to see what is going on (as most of my iPhone apps aren't push enabled, and the notifications just kind of say "LOOK AT ME"). I just don't know how well the ui will transfer with the way they are implementing it now (where hot corners are used to access menus). I don't get why they just can't use a pull down bar for pcs, as not everybody is using tablets for their computing needs.

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    Lion is "meh" enough that it would make me at least look at what windows is doing these days. It's been a decade so maybe they've done something great…but i don't think so. This Metro UI just looks stupid. They're copying the stupid things that Mac OS is doing. The spaces. The full screen. The flatness-slash-boringness of it.

    Simple is not the same as plain. Bleh.

  22. #22
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: Windows 8 Consumer Preview

    yeah copy is probably the wrong word but there is something common in the direction they're going which is unnecessarily spartan.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

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    Re: Windows 8 Consumer Preview

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    It's in the developmental stage. Major changes can still happen. It's what I saw about Windows 7, when I was using it in beta mode... it changed definitely. There was many issues with Windows 7 at first, but they were all hammered out pretty quickly.

    I think the issue here is many are very dismissive of Microsoft. And what's my agenda against Apple? I don't have anything to be jealous of their products like computers, OS, MP3 players or TV device (which has nothing on Roku, but that's another topic completely).
    I think it was pretty clear from the other thread that we argued in for 5 pages. I believe you called all Mac users "superficial people who only care about how a product looks" (keep in mind, I am paraphrasing). You clearly had any extremely negative opinion of Apple and people who use the products they make. You were so anti-Apple that you refused to admit that they did some things better than Microsoft.

    And their TV device is considered just a "hobby" by Apple right now. They are expected to enter the TV business sometime this year, and when they do, I know they will bring it. At their press conference on Wednesday, they are expected to unveil Apple TV 3, which should be a lot better.

    I am not dismissive of MS. I hope they make it into the tablet market and succeed. I would much rather use MS software than Google's Android for example.

    Quote Originally Posted by skd5674 View Post
    The way I was seeing it was not so much as microsoft making a disjointed system, or making it so people had to use tablet apps on their desktop as much as trying to make everything one system. I remember reading something a while back when 8 was announced that their idea was that windows tablets/phones/computers would all have the same system, so devs would have it a lot easier in terms of app creation and the like. Like I said, the one problem I had with the dev preview was that it just kept crashing and freezing up to the point of being unusable. I also don't want to judge the beta by its interface as Microsoft still has some time to hammer things out, and see how people react to it. What microsoft devs think and what the general public think are going to be two different things. A lot can change. I just, like I said, don't want to waste my time partitioning and downloading and installing (god knows Comcast in my area is slow as sin, so downloading would take about a day by itself) just to find out that it was just as buggy as the dev preview.
    I totally understand that, but it's not the greatest idea IMO. Different devices need different OS's. The Metro UI isn't bad for a touchscreen tablet but doesn't work out so great on my laptop. Still, the whole "same system" thing I have to question. There is the whole issue of x86/x86-64 and ARM. All PC's use x86/x86-64 from Intel or AMD. Most tablets use ARM; Intel hasn't made it in the tablet sector yet. If PC's continue to use the x86 architecture and tablets use ARM, will they really be the same system? You won't be able to use desktop apps on the tablet. I am not sure when it comes to this aspect as I don't know much about software creation and how easy it would be to port software to different architectures. This may be no issue. I just don't know.

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    yeah copy is probably the wrong word but there is something common in the direction they're going which is unnecessarily spartan.
    I wouldn't say "copy". It seems to me that Microsoft is trying so hard to innovate and to differentiate themselves from Apple that they are not fully considering that there may be fundamental flaws about what they are doing. At least, that's how I see it. Hopefully the feedback they get will open their eyes to the issues that Windows 8 currently has. I think that it could shape up to be a great OS, but only if MS fixes a lot.

    I am still hoping for the ability to turn off Metro. If we can't get that, then a version completely devoid of Metro would work (perhaps for the Professional or Enterprise editions). If we don't, then no biggie. I am still a Mac user at heart and I'll just turn my attention to Mountain Lion. Microsoft should add these options. They need to get Windows 8 right. If they end up with another OS that has a Vista-like reputation, I think MS will suffer.

  24. #24
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Windows 8 Consumer Preview

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcturus View Post
    I think it was pretty clear from the other thread that we argued in for 5 pages. I believe you called all Mac users "superficial people who only care about how a product looks" (keep in mind, I am paraphrasing). You clearly had any extremely negative opinion of Apple and people who use the products they make. You were so anti-Apple that you refused to admit that they did some things better than Microsoft.
    And that's wrong of me to say? I don't really care for Apple. I could easily turn it around and say you're very anti-Microsoft and anti-PC from that thread.

    And their TV device is considered just a "hobby" by Apple right now. They are expected to enter the TV business sometime this year, and when they do, I know they will bring it. At their press conference on Wednesday, they are expected to unveil Apple TV 3, which should be a lot better.
    They won't get better. Won't even come close to Roku 2. Sorry. Roku 2 is open source and a much better device. Why would one want to overpay for Apple TV and not get Roku? Roku always come out with better devices... and they have a strangehold of that market... it's not for Apple to take really.

    For you it's like Apple can do no wrong and will crush any competition with anti-competitive practices. Not with Roku, especially not with how Roku has hit the stores with a $49.99 device. Apple won't even be close to that price. Roku is open source, so I suspect Apple will remain a "niche market" at best... kinda like how they are in the computer business.

  25. #25

    Re: Windows 8 Consumer Preview

    I have both the development version and customer customer previews running on 2 different laptops and I actually am not that impressed. It is definitely different.

    From what was explained in the dev forum, there are going to be different PC versions as there are with Win 7 and there are going to be separate tablet versions. Currently both versions in the wild have both tablet and PC versions mixed in together. It will definitely be different before it hits release candidate.

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    Re: Windows 8 Consumer Preview

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    And that's wrong of me to say? I don't really care for Apple. I could easily turn it around and say you're very anti-Microsoft and anti-PC from that thread.
    Stereotyping an entire group of people IS wrong, and I take great offense to it. You are insinuating that because I use a Mac, that I am shallow and have no substance. Just because you don't care for them in not an excuse is not an excuse to bash. I don't see how you could say from that thread that I am very anti-Microsoft. In that thread I admitted that I use Microsoft products, and that I thought Windows 7 was a good OS that did some thing better than OS X Lion.

    They won't get better. Won't even come close to Roku 2. Sorry. Roku 2 is open source and a much better device. Why would one want to overpay for Apple TV and not get Roku?

    For you it's like Apple can do no wrong and will crush any competition with anti-competitive practices. Not with Roku, especially not with how Roku has hit the stores with a $49.99 device. Apple won't even be close to that price. Roku is open source, so I suspect Apple will remain a "niche market" at best... kinda like how they are in the computer business.
    I don't think you understand how Apple works, or why people buy what they buy. How many people even know what Roku is? If they did, would they even buy it?

    For one thing, Apple is going to get better. Also, Open Source does not mean anything to me. It doesn't mean it's a better product. You also say they have better devices. That's probably up for debate. However, what's not up for debate is the fact that people don't always buy what you call the best devices with the best specs and the most features. They buy what they like and they buy what they want based on other things (easiness of use, intuitiveness, etc). People would buy an Apple TV over Roku just because it's Apple. Whether that's right or wrong isn't the question. Apple has an established brand name that the masses respect. Does Roku? Not now. Hell, I hadn't even heard of them until I read your post. I asked everyone that I could too, and none of them had ever heard of Roku either (and in case you are wondering, some of those people couldn't care less about Apple).

    Apple can do a lot of wrong. I don't always agree with them and I would never say they are infallible. You can't deny it, Apple has been crushing the competition in almost every sector they compete in lately. Apple has a lot of practices; they can be harsh, but they aren't anti competitive in the eyes of the law. I find it hilarious that you are bashing Apple for being "anti-competitive", but you conveniently ignore the fact that Microsoft (a company that you presumably have an affinity for) has done worse. Which company has had the Department of Justice breathing down it's neck on allegations of being a monopoly and abuse of its position? Not Apple, that's for sure.

    United States v. Microsoft

    I personally LOVE how you think that an Apple TV 3 (which is supposed to be in the form of an actual TV at some point) will get crushed by Roku because it's cheaper. (Roku apparently costs $50, while the current iteration of Apple TV costs $100.) People will buy Apple products no matter the cost, and they are willing to do so. Every Apple product costs more than a comparable product from a competitor. By your logic, everyone must be buying those other products because they are cheaper. Is that so? Nope. Apple is the world's most valuable company, and they didn't get there by raising prices so high that no one bought from them.

    And again, Apple may remain a niche market in the TV industry. But it won't be because they aren't "open source".

    Roku always come out with better devices... and they have a strangehold of that market... it's not for Apple to take really.
    Oh dear. That statement just proves to me that you don't understand what Apple is capable of. Yes, Roku has probably come out with better devices. But guess what? That's because Apple hasn't really cared about TV that much. In the past 5 years they have only had two devices for TV. They didn't care because they were too busy revolutionizing the Smartphone and tablet industries.

    Roku might have a stranglehold of the market, but that doesn't mean it's not ripe for the taking. All that's needed is a company that can truly revolutionize the way we consume television content...and I think that company could be Apple. Let's flash back to January 2007; Steve Jobs unveiled the first iPhone at the 2007 WWDC. It was widely panned as a failure in the making. Everyone laughed at Apple for thinking that they, a computer manufacturer, could make in in the mobile industry against giants like Nokia and RIM and Palm. Here are some quotes from that time period:

    We've learned and struggled for a few years here figuring out how to make a decent phone. PC guys are not going to just figure this out. They're not going to just walk in.
    -Ed Colligan, Ex-Palm CEO, 16 Nov 2006
    Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone… What Apple risks here is its reputation as a hot company that can do no wrong. If it's smart it will call the iPhone a ‘reference design' and pass it to some suckers to build with someone else's marketing budget. Then it can wash its hands of any marketplace failures… Otherwise I'd advise people to cover their eyes. You are not going to like what you'll see.
    -John C. Dvorak, tech columnist, 28 March 2007
    Is there a toaster that also knows how to brew coffee? There is no such combined device, because it would not make anything better than an individual toaster or coffee machine. It works the same way with the iPod, the digital camera or mobile phone: it is important to have specialized devices.
    -Jon Rubinstein, Palm CEO and former Apple Vice President, iPod Division, September 27, 2005
    There's no chance that the iPhone is going to get any significant market share. No chance. It's a $500 subsidized item. They may make a lot of money. But if you actually take a look at the 1.3 billion phones that get sold, I'd prefer to have our software in 60% or 70% or 80% of them, than I would to have 2% or 3%, which is what Apple might get.
    -Steve Ballmer, Microsoft CEO, 30 April 2007
    The development of mobile phones will be similar in PCs. Even with the Mac, Apple has attracted much attention at first, but they have still remained a niche manufacturer. That will be in mobile phones as well.
    -Anssi Vanjoki, Nokia's chief strategist, 30 Nov 2009
    What ended up happening? All of these people were wrong. Apple produces the highest selling smartphone in the world. In one fiscal quarter, they sold 37 million iPhones. None of these people thought that Apple could do it. No one thought that Apple, a seasoned computer maker, would ever be able to break into an industry that was in a stranglehold by other companies. But, they did. Apple ended up doing the same for the tablet industry, which was practically non existent. If they did all of this, then they can do it for TV as well. There is no reason that Roku should keep them from doing this. They definitely won't offer as much competition as Palm, RIM, and Nokia offered.


    And one last thing. The Mac is not a niche product. It has a 10% market share in the US as of now, and it's growing all the time. Apple is the only computer manufacturer that had a consistent growth rate these past few years. The rest of the manufacturers that make PC's? They have all been declining. The Mac has a bright future.

    However, I don't know why I am trying to convince you of anything. It's not going to work. I know that.

  27. #27
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Windows 8 Consumer Preview

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcturus View Post
    Stereotyping an entire group of people IS wrong, and I take great offense to it. You are insinuating that because I use a Mac, that I am shallow and have no substance. Just because you don't care for them in not an excuse is not an excuse to bash. I don't see how you could say from that thread that I am very anti-Microsoft. In that thread I admitted that I use Microsoft products, and that I thought Windows 7 was a good OS that did some thing better than OS X Lion.
    You've done plenty of your own stereotyping of people who do not buy Macs. And I've noticed that myself. This entire post is not on topic. But I'm going to address a few of the points you have made.

    I don't think you understand how Apple works, or why people buy what they buy. How many people even know what Roku is? If they did, would they even buy it?
    Many people do know what it is. It's on many of the big name store shelves (like Target, Bestbuy, Fry's and Walmart). It has a lot of advertising too for it.

    For one thing, Apple is going to get better. Also, Open Source does not mean anything to me. It doesn't mean it's a better product. You also say they have better devices. That's probably up for debate. However, what's not up for debate is the fact that people don't always buy what you call the best devices with the best specs and the most features. They buy what they like and they buy what they want based on other things (easiness of use, intuitiveness, etc). People would buy an Apple TV over Roku just because it's Apple. Whether that's right or wrong isn't the question. Apple has an established brand name that the masses respect. Does Roku? Not now. Hell, I hadn't even heard of them until I read your post. I asked everyone that I could too, and none of them had ever heard of Roku either (and in case you are wondering, some of those people couldn't care less about Apple).
    Let me explain something here... Roku is definitely a better device hands down, and especially related to content and quality wise. Also Roku has features not found on Apple TV and has 1080p. It also is very easy to use, and is plug in and play. No experience required. Just go to the channel guide, and add channels you want. Simple as that. And what do you know about Roku? You're just posting opinions.

    http://binzaman.com/2012/03/03/how-r...ext-exclusive/

    "Currently, Roku has sold more than 2.5 million of its boxes. In 2011, sales tripled, and half those sales occured during the holiday season, when the company made a huge marketing push. Overall, said Wood, “Sales are huge, we’re getting 132 percent year-over-year growth on average.”

    Wood said the company expects to sell 19 million boxes over the next three to four years. But for 2012, Wood said smart TVs are going to be the next focus for Roku. At CES, the company unveiled its streaming sticks, thumb-sided drives for MHL ports, which Wood said should be part of all new TV sets within four years."

    ==========

    This is a company that is getting a MASSIVE INCREASE in profits. Downright huge. And they project to sell 19 million boxes in the next 3-4 years. Roku is already going further into the market. They are highly aggressive. So I wish Apple luck with this one.

    Apple has a lot of practices; they can be harsh, but they aren't anti competitive in the eyes of the law. I find it hilarious that you are bashing Apple for being "anti-competitive", but you conveniently ignore the fact that Microsoft (a company that you presumably have an affinity for) has done worse. Which company has had the Department of Justice breathing down it's neck on allegations of being a monopoly and abuse of its position? Not Apple, that's for sure.
    The law has fell short in the regard of promoting a reasonable atmosphere of justice. And I'm not talking about Microsoft. I'm talking about other products. I haven't conveniently ignored anything. I also own Suse Linux. So saying I'm conveniently ignoring anything is false. I know what Microsoft has done in the past, as I know about AMD's somewhat wavering lawsuit against Intel.

    I personally LOVE how you think that an Apple TV 3 (which is supposed to be in the form of an actual TV at some point) will get crushed by Roku because it's cheaper. (Roku apparently costs $50, while the current iteration of Apple TV costs $100.) People will buy Apple products no matter the cost, and they are willing to do so. Every Apple product costs more than a comparable product from a competitor. By your logic, everyone must be buying those other products because they are cheaper. Is that so? Nope. Apple is the world's most valuable company, and they didn't get there by raising prices so high that no one bought from them.
    Roku will have wide appeal to a mass amount of people and is indeed on the shelves of many major stores already. So whats your point here? Apple isn't going to control that market like they control the MP3 player market... it will be more like the computer market. Roku decided to move aggressively in pushing their products onto shelves. It's not my issue if you have never seen them before. In many stores they are located near where all the televisions are. Not too difficult.

    Oh dear. That statement just proves to me that you don't understand what Apple is capable of. Yes, Roku has probably come out with better devices. But guess what? That's because Apple hasn't really cared about TV that much. In the past 5 years they have only had two devices for TV. They didn't care because they were too busy revolutionizing the Smartphone and tablet industries.
    Oh give me a break. What is Apple capable of doing? Coming out with superior products? Apple is hardly a shining example of quality.

    Roku might have a stranglehold of the market, but that doesn't mean it's not ripe for the taking. All that's needed is a company that can truly revolutionize the way we consume television content...and I think that company could be Apple. Let's flash back to January 2007; Steve Jobs unveiled the first iPhone at the 2007 WWDC. It was widely panned as a failure in the making. Everyone laughed at Apple for thinking that they, a computer manufacturer, could make in in the mobile industry against giants like Nokia and RIM and Palm. Here are some quotes from that time period:
    Apple isn't going to "revolutionize" anything as far as TV content is concerned. They'll remain a niche company in that regard. As far as I'm concerned if you read the source I posted before, Roku already intends to revolutionize television content as they are already doing. They intend to sell close to 20 million boxes in the 3-4 years. Apple won't be it. I'm sorry, but there is already a company doing as we speak.

    It's quite angering to me you think that Apple will simply push a company like Roku out of the picture, and take all the market share. That's the mindset of many Apple supporters.

    And one last thing. The Mac is not a niche product. It has a 10% market share in the US as of now, and it's growing all the time. Apple is the only computer manufacturer that had a consistent growth rate these past few years. The rest of the manufacturers that make PC's? They have all been declining. The Mac has a bright future.
    It's not growing that much. It's stabilizing. And many of PC manufacturers have actually been increasing. And the Mac will indeed remain a niche product. Sorry. 10% isn't big enough. Companies like Lenovo are growing rapidly too.

    And on this note, I'm going to have to agree to disagree. This isn't going to go anywhere.

    However, I don't know why I am trying to convince you of anything. It's not going to work. I know that.
    Yes, and it's never going to work because I don't buy into the RHETORIC.

  28. #28
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    Re: Windows 8 Consumer Preview

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    You've done plenty of your own stereotyping of people who do not buy Macs. And I've noticed that myself. This entire post is not on topic. But I'm going to address a few of the points you have made.
    Oh really? When have I ever stereotyped PC users? Please show me, because I try to put emphases on not stereotyping people. Have I ever said that PC users are bland, boring, and lack the appreciation of style necessary to appreciate a Mac? No, I haven't ever said that like some die hard Mac users do.

    Many people do know what it is. It's on many of the big name store shelves (like Target, Bestbuy, Fry's and Walmart). It has a lot of advertising too for it.
    Maybe it's a regional thing. I am always in stores looking at their technology offerings and I have never seen any Roku devices. No Commercials or advertising either. I am not alone either. No one I know of has ever even heard of Roku.

    Let me explain something here... Roku is definitely a better device hands down, and especially related to content and quality wise. Also Roku has features not found on Apple TV and has 1080p. It also is very easy to use, and is plug in and play. No experience required. Just go to the channel guide, and add channels you want. Simple as that. And what do you know about Roku? You're just posting opinions.
    You like to throw the word "quality" around a lot. You don't define what it means to you. Do you mean build quality? Quality of software? Quality of content? Apple has fantastic build quality and software quality as well. They are reportedly in talks with networks and studios too. I don't see why Apple can't surpass Roku if they try.

    http://binzaman.com/2012/03/03/how-r...ext-exclusive/

    "Currently, Roku has sold more than 2.5 million of its boxes. In 2011, sales tripled, and half those sales occured during the holiday season, when the company made a huge marketing push. Overall, said Wood, “Sales are huge, we’re getting 132 percent year-over-year growth on average.”

    Wood said the company expects to sell 19 million boxes over the next three to four years. But for 2012, Wood said smart TVs are going to be the next focus for Roku. At CES, the company unveiled its streaming sticks, thumb-sided drives for MHL ports, which Wood said should be part of all new TV sets within four years."

    ==========

    This is a company that is getting a MASSIVE INCREASE in profits. Downright huge. And they project to sell 19 million boxes in the next 3-4 years. Roku is already going further into the market. They are highly aggressive. So I wish Apple luck with this one.
    I am not impressed. In the first fiscal quarter of 2012, Apple sold 1.4 million Apple TV.s Not bad, huh? Especially considering Roku is a "market leader" that has a "stranglehold on the market." I am not buying what you say. I am not impressed with their expectations. They can predict to sell as much as they want, but that doesn't mean that they will. Call me when they meet that goal. Roku can be as highly aggressive as it wants. Frankly, they would have no pull compared to Apple. It's not their fault. They aren't as big of a company, and they also don't have $100 billion to throw around.

    The law has fell short in the regard of promoting a reasonable atmosphere of justice. And I'm not talking about Microsoft. I'm talking about other products. I haven't conveniently ignored anything. I also own Suse Linux. So saying I'm conveniently ignoring anything is false. I know what Microsoft has done in the past, as I know about AMD's somewhat wavering lawsuit against Intel.
    Yes, but you call out Apple for anti-competitive practices and use that against them. You don't do that for Microsoft. They do the exact same things as Apple. Are you familiar with the secure boot loader controversy surrounding Windows 8? Microsoft is supposed to require that all ARM tablets running Windows 8 must have a locked boot loader. This is causing the Linux community to worry because they fear that MS is using this to LOCK other OS's out. Microsoft abused their power in the past, and they do so in the present.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_8#Secure_boot

    Roku will have wide appeal to a mass amount of people and is indeed on the shelves of many major stores already. So whats your point here? Apple isn't going to control that market like they control the MP3 player market... it will be more like the computer market. Roku decided to move aggressively in pushing their products onto shelves. It's not my issue if you have never seen them before. In many stores they are located near where all the televisions are. Not too difficult.
    Didn't you read my post? People like you said that Apple would never be a major contender in the smartphone market. Read all the quotes I provided. They were dead wrong. There is no reason that Apple can't become a major contender in the TV industry either. Roku is being aggressive. I get it, but no more aggressive than Apple is. But, Apple doesn't need to be aggressive when it comes to a potential TV and getting it onto shelves. It already has retailers like Best Buy standing in line ready to carry the product (assuming it's an actual TV).

    http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1320001

    Oh give me a break. What is Apple capable of doing? Coming out with superior products? Apple is hardly a shining example of quality.
    It does come out with superior products, and I would argue that Apple is a shining example of quality. I am clearly not the only person who thinks so. Apple has the highest customer satisfaction ratings in the industry.

    http://news.cnet.com/8301-13506_3-20...-for-8th-year/

    http://www.intomobile.com/2011/09/09...secutive-year/

    http://econsultancy.com/us/blog/8664...faction-charts

    http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2393296,00.asp

    These are just a few links which validate what I say. Apple wouldn't have the highest customer satisfaction in the industry if they put out inferior products that had no semblance of quality.


    Apple isn't going to "revolutionize" anything as far as TV content is concerned. They'll remain a niche company in that regard. As far as I'm concerned if you read the source I posted before, Roku already intends to revolutionize television content as they are already doing. They intend to sell close to 20 million boxes in the 3-4 years. Apple won't be it. I'm sorry, but there is already a company doing as we speak.
    And why can't they revolutionize TV content? Tell me why. You aren't giving any reasons. People said that Apple couldn't revolutionize digital music players, smartphones, and tablets. And they did it all! They intend to sell 20 million boxes, but that doesn't mean anything to me. It doesn't mean they will. Roku hasn't proven themselves yet. Not to me, anyway. And why can't Apple do it? They sold 37 million iPhones and 15 million iPads last fiscal QUARTER. If they can do that, then they can sell 20 million Apple TV's in a quarter (if they are selling a set top box that is). You aren't giving me any reasons as to why Apple can't be a top contender in the TV market. I would really like to hear them. Why couldn't an Apple TV product be popular?

    It's not growing that much. It's stabilizing. And many of PC manufacturers have actually been increasing. And the Mac will indeed remain a niche product. Sorry. 10% isn't big enough. Companies like Lenovo are growing rapidly too.
    Wrong. Just plain 100% factually incorrect. Your biases are so blatant right now (not that mine aren't). Mac sales are steadily increasing, and they remain to do so. In December, Apple's Mac sales increased 24% while the PC industry as a whole increased just 4%.

    http://blog.seattlepi.com/microsoft/...ing-pc-market/

    Overall, Mac shipments grew 27.7% year over year in Q1 2011 (Apple's fiscal Q2) against a backdrop of a 1.2% decline in total PC shipments -- a decline than would be even sharper if the number didn't include Macs.

    http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2011/05/...ng-everywhere/

    I've shown you statistics! How can you say that Mac sales are stabilizing and not increasing? They are increasing highly! Did CNN lie?


    http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2011/05/...ng-everywhere/


    Yes, and it's never going to work because I don't buy into the RHETORIC.
    Ditto. You posts are not convincing at all, especially since you like to ignore statistics that other people try and show you. I bet that you will not even take a look at even one of the links that I posted to try and back up my posts.

    Edit: Didn't see this...
    It's quite angering to me you think that Apple will simply push a company like Roku out of the picture, and take all the market share. That's the mindset of many Apple supporters.
    Apple has never taken all the market share of any market they have entered. I don't think anything is going to happen. I am going to speculate on what could happen. And, frankly I am being realistic. Apple likes to take advantage of its power. They won't let Roku stand in their way if they want to make something happen, even if that means buying Roku.

  29. #29
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Windows 8 Consumer Preview

    Wow another long winded reply... I have nothing else to say to you. This is taking this thread completely off topic. Have a nice day. If you have anything else to say to me take it to private messaging.

    I honestly don't care what you or the people you know care about. It's not my concern.

  30. #30
    aww I wanted to explode looseliam's Avatar
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    Re: Windows 8 Consumer Preview


    Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day.
    Give a man religion, and he'll starve praying for a fish.

  31. #31
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Windows 8 Consumer Preview

    Anyways an article trying to get this back on subject... this is a favorable article about Windows 8 from the Chicago Sun Times...

    http://www.suntimes.com/technology/i...s-promise.html

    An interesting read.

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    Slut benno5693's Avatar
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    Re: Windows 8 Consumer Preview

    I couldn't resist trying out Win 8 DP on my old laptop and found it to be really buggy too, but I suppose it wasn't really designed to be the most stable OS! :P

    I jumped at the chance to 'update' to the CP and all I can say is WINNING!!! It's bug free (apart from a minor incompatibility issue with a few programs), runs really fast (much faster than the factory installed Win7 HP 64-bit) AND looks awesome!

    The metro UI might take a bit for some to get used to, but set up right you can do just about anything a lot faster! It'll reinvent the PC experience for basic users!

    EDIT: That article above really sums up my feelings well!

  33. #33
    aww I wanted to explode looseliam's Avatar
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    Re: Windows 8 Consumer Preview

    The shell replacement I use seems to work on W8 without problems. Wohoo!

    Unfortunately, the project is no longer under active development.

    When the time comes at least I know I'll have an alternative to metro.

    Now if I could only get KDE working...

    Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day.
    Give a man religion, and he'll starve praying for a fish.

  34. #34
    JUB Addict andysayshi's Avatar
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    Re: Windows 8 Consumer Preview

    Good, well-reasoned posting, Arcturus.

    I'd never heard of Roku until this thread either. While it seems like a good product, it seems unfair to compare a $50 Roku which is 720p, has no ethernet, no USB, and no digital audio output, with a device that has all these things. Feature-for feature, ATV2 and Roku seem pretty evenly matched price wise. Obviously, ATV is designed for people who use the iTunes ecosystem and want to extend that to their TV.

    Personally, I can't stand the Metro UI. I find it complete style-over-substance. It's dismal performance in the phone market is no surprise. In it's current Win8 iteration, it just seems like an after thought, not a truly integrated feature. MS brought it to the phone market too late, and are trying to rush it into the desktop space too quickly, without getting it right.

    That's one thing Apple do well. They may bring features to their products late (cut and paste in iOS, anyone?) but they wait until they get them right.

  35. #35
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Windows 8 Consumer Preview

    Can we get back to the topic please? The $49.99 Roku is entry level... the more expensive model which is $70 on Amazon has the features necessary (including USB). The XS has the ethernet port, yet it still costs less than ATV2.

    [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Roku-XD-Streaming-Player-1080p/dp/B005CLPP8E/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1330991397&sr=8-1"]Amazon.com: Roku 2 XD Streaming Player 1080p: Electronics[/ame]

    Keep on hating. BTW, HDMI connection is more then enough. Unfair? LOL.

    I personally think the device is superior quality wise, but lets leave it at that. This thread is for Windows 8. If anyone wants to send me the usual hatred, send it to my inbox.

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    JUB Addict andysayshi's Avatar
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    Re: Windows 8 Consumer Preview

    Lol, I love it when someone derails a thread, then says "can we get back to topic please?", then proceeds to write stuff that has nothing to do with the thread topic!

  37. #37
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Windows 8 Consumer Preview


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    Re: Windows 8 Consumer Preview

    Quote Originally Posted by andysayshi View Post
    Good, well-reasoned posting, Arcturus.

    I'd never heard of Roku until this thread either. While it seems like a good product, it seems unfair to compare a $50 Roku which is 720p, has no ethernet, no USB, and no digital audio output, with a device that has all these things. Feature-for feature, ATV2 and Roku seem pretty evenly matched price wise. Obviously, ATV is designed for people who use the iTunes ecosystem and want to extend that to their TV.

    Personally, I can't stand the Metro UI. I find it complete style-over-substance. It's dismal performance in the phone market is no surprise. In it's current Win8 iteration, it just seems like an after thought, not a truly integrated feature. MS brought it to the phone market too late, and are trying to rush it into the desktop space too quickly, without getting it right.

    That's one thing Apple do well. They may bring features to their products late (cut and paste in iOS, anyone?) but they wait until they get them right.
    Totally. What I am trying to get at is the fact that each person has a different idea of a superior product. As someone who is heavily invested in Apple's ecosystem, the Apple TV is the superior product. I have two Macs, iTunes content, iCloud, etc. Which product is going to be superior for me? The Apple TV, which I can send content to from my Mac (or PC actually) using AirPlay.

    In my opinion the Metro UI would be usable, but not on desktops. It doesn't link well with the desktop experience. Metro apps don't sync either with their desktop counterparts which I think will put off a lot of users. I think I already mentioned this though.

    I've read a theory that Microsoft is forcing the Metro UI onto their entire user base in order to gain developers for the platform. Windows Phone is way behind iOS and Android when it comes to applications because a lot of developers aren't bothering to create content for them. Mostly because it might not be financially sound for them to do so, considering their minuscule user base. By integrating metro into all of their products...desktop, smartphone, Xbox...they are increasing their user base, which could attract developers. Microsoft lived in the past for way too long, and now they have to play catch up. It's not a pretty thing to watch.

    I also agree with you about Apple. They don't usually do something until they know it's ready and they know that it is better than their competitors. Take 4G smartphones. A lot of manufacturers are making them now, Apple isn't. Out of all of my friends that have 4G phones, they all complain about how short the battery life is. That's why Apple didn't implement it with the 4S. They are waiting for the proper chips from Qualcomm, and once they are available, they will implement 4G. They aren't willing to take the trade offs that better specs and newer technology sometimes require, and that's why I like it. Apple values user experience better than its competitors. This is why they are successful.

  39. #39

    Re: Windows 8 Consumer Preview

    Glad I didn't install it over my Windows Vista now lol

  40. #40
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    Re: Windows 8 Consumer Preview

    Its an interesting experiment, but will be a failure. The duality of the system, of Metro and regular Windows UIs side by side, is the single largest weakness of the OS, and the reason why it won't find huge success. Had they chosen to separate the UIs and stuck Metro into a tablet-only version it would have made sense. Otherwise, its a really bizarre strategy.

    The sad part is that, underneath that Metro skin, the changes they've made to the core of Windows are really, really great. Most people won't see them because of Metro, however.

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    Re: Windows 8 Consumer Preview

    Quote Originally Posted by JB3 View Post
    Its an interesting experiment, but will be a failure. The duality of the system, of Metro and regular Windows UIs side by side, is the single largest weakness of the OS, and the reason why it won't find huge success. Had they chosen to separate the UIs and stuck Metro into a tablet-only version it would have made sense. Otherwise, its a really bizarre strategy.

    The sad part is that, underneath that Metro skin, the changes they've made to the core of Windows are really, really great. Most people won't see them because of Metro, however.
    Sad, but true. I like that they were really able to maximize battery life (theoretically anyway--I really haven't given it enough use to find if it was able to keep it going strong or not), and the redesign of the file system, but, as much as I like the concept of Metro UI, I don't think it is really going to be worth it with a dual UI. God knows with my grandfather, using windows 7 is a hassle, as he can't find his pictures, or he can't open word, or how to write an email, etc. etc. It's going to be too much work to jump between one UI to the next to do things that should be able to be completed easily.

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    Re: Windows 8 Consumer Preview

    Quote Originally Posted by skd5674 View Post
    Sad, but true. I like that they were really able to maximize battery life (theoretically anyway--I really haven't given it enough use to find if it was able to keep it going strong or not), and the redesign of the file system, but, as much as I like the concept of Metro UI, I don't think it is really going to be worth it with a dual UI. God knows with my grandfather, using windows 7 is a hassle, as he can't find his pictures, or he can't open word, or how to write an email, etc. etc. It's going to be too much work to jump between one UI to the next to do things that should be able to be completed easily.
    You pinpointed the single biggest issue with Windows 8: It mixes two totally different and completely separate UI paradigms in a way that should never be done. It would be as if Apple layered the entire iOS UI on top of OSX and expected people to use it with a regular laptop or desktop. It just doesn't make any sense.

    At the very least, they should have adapted ALL of the windows UI to Metro style (like they're doing with Office), so that the two UIs didn't seem so completely different from each other.

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    Re: Windows 8 Consumer Preview

    Some interesting comments from Ray Ozzie, the guy chosen by Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer to move Microsoft in new directions after Gates' departure. Ozzie, who left MS in 2010, says that Windows 8 is make-or-break for MS.

    Ray Ozzie, the man who succeeded Bill Gates as Microsoft's tech visionary, believes the world has moved past the personal computer, potentially leaving behind the world's largest software company.

    The PC, which was Microsoft's foundation and still determines the company's financial performance, has been nudged aside by powerful phones and tablets running Apple and Google software, the former Microsoft executive said.
    Ozzie says that Windows 8 will determine Microsoft's place in the tech world. If Win8 fails in the market, especially the non-desktop market, Microsoft will be left far behind the likes of Apple and Google.

    Ozzie said the fate of Windows 8 would determine Microsoft's future. The latest version of the company's operating system will work on tablets powered by low-power ARM Holdings chips, which Microsoft hopes will allow it to rival Apple's iPad, and put the company back at the cutting edge of consumer technology.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/digital-life/h...#ixzz1oZac5sYp

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    Re: Windows 8 Consumer Preview

    The man's final question says it all:



    Article here: http://www.sync-blog.com/sync/2012/0...ary-users.html

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    Re: Windows 8 Consumer Preview

    Quote Originally Posted by gsdx View Post
    The man's final question says it all:
    Linux would be the other option to going Apple.

    Ubuntu is pursuing this same paradigm with their "Unity" desktop. They do it better than MS has in this Consumer Preview.

    Ubuntu has however lost many users to more traditional desktop flavours of Linux as a result of this.

    MS is on the same path if they presume a desktop interface focused on a touch screen paradigm isn't going to alienate users.

    Here's hoping they do provide a better solution to accessing "legacy" desktop functionality in future updates.
    Last edited by burke67; March 14th, 2012 at 03:14 PM. Reason: removed link and vid
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    Re: Windows 8 Consumer Preview

    I plan to stick with my windows 3.11 / 98 / XP for as long as I possibly can....
    If I eventually want something new & completely incompatible(network-wize) with those I would probably be very tempted to go with Linux rather than windows 8.
    (I did set up Linux on a PC years ago - but i needed the hardrive space so had to remove it)

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    Re: Windows 8 Consumer Preview

    ^ WFW? Wow. Must be a legacy gaming rig... I hope ;)

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    Re: Windows 8 Consumer Preview

    Haven't played a computer game in years LOL

    The 3.11/WFW one is just my general use PC (for offline stuff) like if i need to type up a text document, or a HTML file, keeping track of stuff, and for recording found files...it works perfectly for that.

    The Win98se ... well I'm using it right now to type this basically my internet computer.

    Win XP is my laptop

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    I know all _very_ out of date LOL but does what I need

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    Re: Windows 8 Consumer Preview

    Lol at all these real world user videos! Learning ONE new command (or two including the WinKey) to open the Start Menu won't kill you and doesn't make the OS a failure - their attitudes to not learning about the new system are a failure. Like all previous versions Windows there'll be a tour when you first start up a new device for the first time, so that should solve that problem for final version users.

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    Re: Windows 8 Consumer Preview

    Quote Originally Posted by andysayshi View Post
    Some interesting comments from Ray Ozzie, the guy chosen by Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer to move Microsoft in new directions after Gates' departure. Ozzie, who left MS in 2010, says that Windows 8 is make-or-break for MS.



    Ozzie says that Windows 8 will determine Microsoft's place in the tech world. If Win8 fails in the market, especially the non-desktop market, Microsoft will be left far behind the likes of Apple and Google.
    And, unfortunately, I don't think Microsoft has learned their lesson about tablet pricing. A windows tablet, even with shiny Windows 8, is not worth more than an iPad or a Galaxy Tab. If they are priced higher, they will fail.

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