** The Official 2012 MLB Thread! **

[Sausy]

Hamilton's a great player, but this year had too many peaks and valleys and unfortunately one of his most gaping valleys came leading to the playoffs and the wild card single elimination game against the O's. He has a world of ability but had drug and alcohol problems that almost destroyed his career....and a couple of alcohol related relapses including earlier in the year for Texas. Don't see him going to a big media market where his flaws will be regular fodder in case he gets off to a slow start.... Texas may be big market size but he's definitely more suited for there than Boston, Philly(God Philly fans tore up Mike Schmidt.....they'd chew Josh up and spit him out)! Boston....all the pressure would be on him now. The Chicago Cubs? Ditto the Boston pressure thing. Maybe the Giants get serious and add help for Buster Posey? West Coast would be laid back exception for him.... it will sure be interesting where he lands. While the specter of huge money/huge bust is often true there are enough exceptions, like Prince Fielder in Detroit and after a slow start Albert Pujols(though a ten year contract for Pujols who may really be 34,not 32 is playing with nuclear fuel). But it is something teams have to take into consideration...look at the Yankees and Alex Rodriguez. Had the opportunity to add immense flexibility by letting him go after he opted out a few years back and signed him for an insane 10 years at nearly the same money proportionally to his old contract. Now he's hitting in the .270's, getting injured and not even hit 20 homers and 80 RBI. And he's got FIVE more years left to go...and with his steroid past problems even should he pass Barry Bonds home run "record" WHO will give a damn?

On a happier Yanks note,CC Sabathia was a bit shaky early but then got tough and did a great job going within one out of a complete game 7-2 victory for the Yanks allowing eight hits and two early runs. After a bit of an up and down season his last season start was strong and he was equal to the task tonight doing what an ace does. Russell Martin led off the ninth with a solo home run and the floodgates opened as the Yanks scored five times roughing up the O's All Star closer Jim Johnson.

[Ninja108]

Watched amazing baseball the past few days. Verlander and CC showed what they are made of,Ibanez made those amazing homers and the Nats...heartbreaking is the only word to use.

[King Gumby VIII]

Yes that was a heartbreaking loss for the Nats.

[sonny10305]

Yeah that was a shame the Nats did not go all the way they were outstanding all year and deserved to go to the WS. That Strasburg thing looms pretty large right now; in my mind you don’t take your best pitcher out in a series as important as this was, shame.
But the cards have been amazing as well, I mean look what they were able to do without La Russa and just a important Duncan and Pujols and continue without missing a beat, great story.

As to the Yankees I fully support Girardi’s decision to bench A-Rod, his performance has been pitiful going 0-11 with nine strike outs in this series even having with trouble fouling pitches off, look at that last at bat he got 85 MPH fast balls and could not catch up to them. he Yankees are trying to win games no time for pampering any player I don’t care who he is Joe had to put the best lineup he could to win and that did not include A-Rod. At least Alex must made Granderson feel better about the crappy season he has had going like 2-16 and chasing fastballs above his head. The Yankees have to thanks whatever God they believe in for Ibanez.
By the way I think the Yankees are one of the teams paying the price for the additional wild card, because they just went 5 games it means that today they start the championship series with no day off. I don’t think Bud cramming that wild card in instead of waiting till it could be fit in properly with the season was a bad move.

For me a great WS would be Yankees/Cardinals how bout you guys?

[RazorzEdge88]

Ugh, that was as close as I've come to crying over a sporting event. Awful, unbelievable, fuckfuckFUCK.

Kurt Suzuki called one of the worst games I've ever seen. He called for everything down and away, down and away, and the home plate ump wasn't calling any of those as strikes.

I can't think of anything that would turn me off more than Yankees/Cards. Oh boy, will the team that already has 11 Championships win, or will it be the team that already has 27?

I want the Tigers in the mix. Their owner is a rare breed - a guy who actually cares about the success of his team. He expanded the Tigers payroll out of genuine interest in the team's success, and became the only owner in baseball to approve of an operating loss for his team.

[Ninja108]

IMO,a lot of last night's blame has to go to Davey Johnson. Gio Gonzalez was left in way too long,Edwin Jackson should never have been brought in and in a do or die game,you don't leave your closer in there when it's obvious he doesn't have it.

[RazorzEdge88]

Agreed on all fronts. Edwin Jackson being brought in is the biggest WTF. Ryan Mattheus was one of the heroes of game 1 for the Nats and Davey totally left him to waste in game 5.

I thought Davey did a terrific job of managing this Nats this season, but damn if all of his typical mistakes weren't amplified x100 last night.

[King Gumby VIII]

Still the Nats exceeded expectations of the season. They just didn't finish the season very well.

Looks like Derek Jeter got injuried with a fractured left ankle. He will miss the rest of the season with about three months to recover.

[Ninja108]

Yankees looked awful last night,first Yankee team EVER to lead the bases loaded three times in the postseason. And after we tied the game in the 9th,we did the same RISP crap we've done all year.
And losing Jeter....like losing the heart and soul of our team.

[sonny10305]

As you know Derek Jeter broke his ankle last night; that ankle has been giving him fits and now he is done for the year. Heatbreaking for any player to come this far in the season and have it all taken away in the games you play all year to be in and in Jetters case in extra innings of a playoff game that shudda been his. He is not just tough you could say he is the toughest as well as the clutchest. He is The Captain.

[Sausy]

Definitely a heartbreaker for Jeter and the Yanks....glad to read that the ankle injury bad as it was doesn't threaten his career but he will need the offseason to heal properly. Yanks are a club that came back from a 4-0 deficit last night to tie the game on Raul Ibanez' latest clutch homer in the bottom of the ninth so while this hurts they are far from down. Yep, sonny....as big a Mets fan I am(as you well know) so respectful of the Yankee's winning tradition and "The Captain" is one of the greatest Yankee winners ever.

[gtru1981]

last two nights have been real huge heartbreakers. The Nats losing (was hoping for a Nats/Yanks World Series) and Jeter and his injury!

Arod better step up and everyone else as well! Raul cant do it all himself!

I wonder if the Dodgers are willing to take another bad contract and take Arod off our hands!?

[Ninja108]

Gtru..A-Rod isn't the only one. This is the WORST offense I have seen in the last 20 years.

[Sausy]

Too little speed, too many strikeouts and not enough reliance on making contact to generate runs. Generates home runs in bunches but without Derek Jeter loses one of the few guys who can make contact to get on base. They are awesome driving the ball out of the park but if you contain their power, it's very unlikely they can generate any offense now.

[sonny10305]

Too little speed, too many strikeouts and not enough reliance on making contact to generate runs. Generates home runs in bunches but without Derek Jeter loses one of the few guys who can make contact to get on base. They are awesome driving the ball out of the park but if you contain their power, it's very unlikely they can generate any offense now.

It’s almost like watching the Mets huh Saucy
The Yankees even have their own Jason Bay in A-Rod.
I think of A-Rod the way I did with Bay when he comes up to the plate and we really need something to happen you think, Oh no, what is that fool gonna do. Nothing seems to go right for Alex even last night with a ball up and in that should have given him a 2-1 count he tried to get out of the way and it’s a foul ball. When a player is going good and he has the count in his favor taking close pitches making sure he gets the pitch he wants and letting it rip but Alex just can’t get to the real good fastball anymore so he tries to cheat and when he does that of course he gives himself up on the breaking ball; it’s just what is gonna happen and I should think a-Rod would know that or at least he should.

I am a big Mets fan but with my team out of it I wanted to see the Yankees win it and there was a time when they would bounce back after losing the first two but not without Jetter and the guys they have on this team

[Sausy]

It’s almost like watching the Mets huh Saucy
The Yankees even have their own Jason Bay in A-Rod.
I think of A-Rod the way I did with Bay when he comes up to the plate and we really need something to happen you think, Oh no, what is that fool gonna do. Nothing seems to go right for Alex even last night with a ball up and in that should have given him a 2-1 count he tried to get out of the way and it’s a foul ball. When a player is going good and he has the count in his favor taking close pitches making sure he gets the pitch he wants and letting it rip but Alex just can’t get to the real good fastball anymore so he tries to cheat and when he does that of course he gives himself up on the breaking ball; it’s just what is gonna happen and I should think a-Rod would know that or at least he should.

I am a big Mets fan but with my team out of it I wanted to see the Yankees win it and there was a time when they would bounce back after losing the first two but not without Jetter and the guys they have on this team

I wouldn't count the Yanks out,ya know,sonny....if they can get the long ball going, that's the one thing they can run rings around the Mets. Even Ichiro gets em out every now and then! It's sad what's hapened to A-Rod, and who knows how much of his steady decline can be attributed to his past history with chemical additives? The past two or so years he has looked like a shell of his old self.

I'm also a big New York baseball fan.....much more like you support the Mets but they represent the city,too. Now I know that a Cub fan would probably root like hell for the Cards over the White Sox if they were in the playoffs representing Chicago and the old Giants/ Dodgers rivalry with the Yankees was incredibly intense and divisive. Yet it isn't that bitter a rivalry between Mets and Yankees we can't wish each other well when we're not there to compete in the playoffs.... I guess losing two pro teams to the West Coast makes you appreciate the presence of the other team more these days.



Carlos Beltran is really impressing this postseason...big home runs from him and last year's WS hero David Freese helped the Cards bash the Giants last night. Carlos seems to be smelling that WS ring and what a story if he gets it being a key member of the team that broke the hearts of the 2006 Mets, most pointedly himself being frozen into a called third strike from Adam Wainwright with those runners on base to end the series.

[gtru1981]

Gtru..A-Rod isn't the only one. This is the WORST offense I have seen in the last 20 years.

We all know Swisher is gone after this season. Curtis might be another one, as I think the longer term contracts with the Yankees era might come to an end soon. A lot of these bigger clubs like the Soxs, Phillies, are realizing that going these ten year contracts aren't worth it.

[Sausy]

If you give long term contracts it should be to players just reaching their prime, no older than 30 and no more than six or seven years guaranteed. Extend Cano, but even then be careful. He's not exactly imitating the great players of October right now. Yankees in a very tenuous situation...no surefire stars or solid regular contributors coming up in the next year or so. They may either be forced to overspend to keep competitive or retool entirely and I think with their prices retooling isn't really a serious option.

[gtru1981]

If you give long term contracts it should be to players just reaching their prime, no older than 30 and no more than six or seven years guaranteed. Extend Cano, but even then be careful. He's not exactly imitating the great players of October right now. Yankees in a very tenuous situation...no surefire stars or solid regular contributors coming up in the next year or so. They may either be forced to overspend to keep competitive or retool entirely and I think with their prices retooling isn't really a serious option.

Dude, totally agree with you. I think six should be the max for long term contracts. Once a player is over the age of 30, giving them a 10 year contract is just plain stupid. The Angeles gave Albert a 10 year contract (he is 32) and his numbers are already in decline.

[Sausy]

Dude, totally agree with you. I think six should be the max for long term contracts. Once a player is over the age of 30, giving them a 10 year contract is just plain stupid. The Angeles gave Albert a 10 year contract (he is 32) and his numbers are already in decline.

Even the Reds giving Joey Votto a 10 year deal acted unwisely. Albert may even be 34, and though he had a good year after a bad start it was a notch below a typical Albert Pujols year. The Angels seriously can't think he'll give them more than five or six good years....God knows the Yanks with A-Rod being under contract for five more years at nearly $120 mil didn't pay him to struggle to hit in the .270's with maybe 20 homers,75 RBI. Obviously it's not my money to determine how its spent but locking up two,three or four players while having far less maneuverability regarding the rest if the roster even for a moneybags team like the Yanks just doesn't make sense. I liked what one cynical GM said about guaranteed contracts being a good idea: "Guarantee the performance and I'll guarantee the money!"

[Ninja108]

The cold hard truth...last year and this year were the Yank's best chances to win a World Series that they will have in a while. They are getting older and at some point,they will have to rebuild.
As for what's going on with A-Rod,I will always be grateful for 09 but the bottom line is he hijacked a World Series game to announce to everyone he wanted to leave unless he got more $$$$.
When you get paid that much,you darn well better produce and A-Rod hasn't.

[Sausy]

Boy,what an ugly end to the Yankee season. Bad CC, bad offense.....and as Joe Girardi(God he has nice guns watching his meeting with the media after the game...hate being shallow but he has nice arms)added it's not fair to blame it all on ARod. Has had a miserable playoffs but he had lots of company in regards to futile production with the big bats in the Yanks lineup. There was just about NOBODY who had good at bats after the first game when the Yanks tied it 4-4 in the ninth on a two run shot by Raul Ibanez.

Yankees being swept by Detroit begs the question how can the Yanks retool with few great prospects and with such a need to blend in youth not really being able to afford giving up the few really good ones(mostly in the lower minors). Spending on plus 30 flawed players like Curtis Granderson and Nick Swisher would hurt them and as incredible as it sounds they may give Alex Rodriguez away paying the vast majority of his contract just so he doesn't clog up their budget for the next five years at an average of 23 million. Derek Jeter looks like he's reacted to surgery as well as could be expected and is likely to be ready to play by spring training...but when you're pinning hopes on the healthy return of a 39 year old veteran, even one as venerable as Jeter you've got fundamental flaws on your club it may take time to correct.

In the other league the Giants were downed 8-3 by a Cards club that seems on a mission. Great start by Adam Wainwright who even without Carlos Beltran a second straight game was given a ton of support from the Cards offense. Only a two run shot by Giants third baseman Pablo Sandoval in the ninth made the score slightly more respectable. He's not around much anymore but I know Abs is in his glory with the Cards on the verge of their third WS appearance since 2006(Met fans will NEVER forget that one in particular,either) Funny how Carlos Beltran goes from taking a called strike three perfect curve by Adam Wainwright to end the Met's NL hopes that year to being a crucial part of the Card's season and playoff drive. That's why baseball is so great....random stuff leading up to karmic bliss!

[Ninja108]

Seeing what I saw in this series..yuck. Never have I seen a Yankee team look so bad. Best wishes to the Tigers as they represent the AL.

[Sausy]

Seeing what I saw in this series..yuck. Never have I seen a Yankee team look so bad. Best wishes to the Tigers as they represent the AL.

Ninja,though the Yanks are #2 in my heart compared to my Mets I can't think of anything in recent years with the Yankees that represents quite as dismal and disillusioning moment for Yankee fans as this postseason Yankee debacle. If George were still here God help who would feel the sting of his wrath....A-Rod tops the list but almost EVERYONE just stunk. Now A-Rod says he wants to stay....if there is ANY way to get him to those fools in Florida,do it!!! Pay 80% of his salary....just lose him!!! Granderson, Swisher,Martin, Teixeira... so many flawed players....you can get away with a good but not great supporting cast if you had a couple of stars like Fielder and Cabrera to anchor the lineup augmented by a fine rising centerfielder in ex-Yankee Austin Jackson. And consistent great pitching but CC as good as he usually is was a notch below this year and no other Yankee starter has that kind of persona to ride the team through the playoffs,other than Andy Petitte and we can't count on him next year. Agreed wishing the best to the Tigers on a great run that sees them in the World Series...perhaps against the Cards who broke their hearts in 2006.

[gtru1981]

Seeing what I saw in this series..yuck. Never have I seen a Yankee team look so bad. Best wishes to the Tigers as they represent the AL.

With the Yanks out and i dont care for the Tigers, i am jumping ship and saying GO GIANTS!

[Ninja108]

Still not the worst Yankee loss I've seen. Game 7 of 01..nuff said.
As for George...while I do agree changes need to be made and more accountablity,more often then not his moves hurt the Yankees,not helped.

[CoolBlue71]

• 2009: New York Yankees
• 2010: San Francisco Giants
• 2011: St. Louis Cardinals


My home team is Detroit Tigers. I'm a Michigan native who wants this club, which defeated Yankees on Oct. 18 to win their 11th American League [AL] pennant in franchise history, to end up winning the 2012 World Series.

The three other teams, including Yankees, listed above having advanced to their League Championship Series means Tigers is the only one that have not won a World Series within the last three years. In fact, Detroit hasn't won it all since they went wire-to-wire in their legendary 1984 season under the management of the late George "Sparky" Anderson.

Detroit has four World Series titles: 1935, 1945, 1968, and 1984. In their ten previous Fall Classics, Tigers played Chicago Cubs four times (1907, 1908, 1935, 1945) and Cardinals three times (1934, 1968, 2006). Seven of ten … against the same two teams. That seems claustrophobic. The three other World Series were played against three separate clubs: Pittsburgh Pirates (1909), Cincinnati Reds (1940), and San Diego Padres (1984).

Right now, Game #07 of the National League Championship Series between Cards and Giants is in the bottom of the 2nd inning. San Francisco is ahead 1 to 0. We'll find out how it ends tonight. The winner captures the National League [NL] pennant, of course, and will play Detroit Tigers for the title of the 2012 World Series.

[sonny10305]

I want the Tigers in the mix. Their owner is a rare breed - a guy who actually cares about the success of his team. He expanded the Tigers payroll out of genuine interest in the team's success, and became the only owner in baseball to approve of an operating loss for his team.

You got your wish dude I think the Tigers deserve this chance and although the Giants will give em a run for the money I see Detroit takin it

[Sausy]

I would NEVER count the Giants out.... kinda feel bad for Cards fans because the Cards could not find a way to seal the deal. No offense in the last few games, plenty of mistakes,pitching couldn't hold on. Complete opposite of the Giants who took advantage of almost every opportunity and would NEVER go away. This will go at least six games,I'm going with the Giants over Detroit.

[sonny10305]

I would NEVER count the Giants out....

That's sorta what you said about the Yankees......how did that work out for ya

[Sausy]

That's sorta what you said about the Yankees......how did that work out for ya

True....but the Giants do have a very team oriented approach towards winning. Yanks depended basically on CC and home runs in bunches. Gives Mets fans like us hope though....you don't need superstars busting the budget. You need a couple of great players, some great complimentary players, some luck, a lot of heart and never say die approach.

[sonny10305]

True....but the Giants do have a very team oriented approach towards winning. Yanks depended basically on CC and home runs in bunches. Gives Mets fans like us hope though....you don't need superstars busting the budget. You need a couple of great players, some great complimentary players, some luck, a lot of heart and never say die approach.

I know you reference is towards the Giants but you just described our Mets to a T

[Ninja108]

Not shocked by last night's game at all. All due respect to the Tiger's pitching staff,the Yanks had been reeling for a couple of months and were lucky to get by the ALDS.
Yet the media fell all over themselved proclaiming them unbeatable because they beat the Yankees and I think it went to the Tigers heads.
I'm sure they'll bounce back but this is a wake up call for them.

[Sausy]

I know you reference is towards the Giants but you just described our Mets to a T

Not QUITE yet but getting there.....our pitching staff with young studs in Jon Niese, Matt Harvey and the upcoming Zack Wheeler ( plus RA Dickey,Johann Santana and Dillon Gee) is promising. Keeping DWright and continued growth by Ike Davis and Daniel Murphy, Ruben Tejada and either by acquisition or development a couple of our outfield spots plus Josh Thole has to provide the contact hitting spark he did early on. But if we improve and add a couple of grinder types with heart and dsire as well as talent to reinforce the posivity Terry Collins has been preaching to the boys and most impotantly, stabilize our bullpen so we can be in a position to win games even if like the Giants we don't ordinarily score a ton of runs we will be in a situation that if we take advantage of the opportunity can be a serious playoff contender even without a flashy, superstar filled roster with very generous budgeting.

BTW my prediction of a Giants WS victory is working out pretty well for me in the early going!

Not shocked by last night's game at all. All due respect to the Tiger's pitching staff,the Yanks had been reeling for a couple of months and were lucky to get by the ALDS.
Yet the media fell all over themselved proclaiming them unbeatable because they beat the Yankees and I think it went to the Tigers heads.
I'm sure they'll bounce back but this is a wake up call for them.

Yep...don't think ANYONE expected Verlander to be so ordinary,though. Kudos to the sparkplug Pablo Sandoval's World Seeries tying three homers in a game...the legend of the Panda grows! Barry Zito gave em more than enough allowing only one run in five and two thirds innings and the bullpen capably took it from there. It is strange though to see a World Series star like Tim Lincecum pitching out of the pen, as his season unfortunately has seen him go from "The Freak" to "WTF is wrong with him"? But hopefully he can get that spark he had back ...for now I'm sure he's enjoying doing anything to help contribute towards a second title for the San Francisco Giants in two years.

[Sausy]

Giants go up 3-0 over Detroit as Ryan Vogelsong continues his strong playoff run going five and two thirds scoreless innings and Tim Lincecum continued his dominating relief efforts pitching two plus innings in a 2-0 Giants triumph going back to Detroit....Detroit's power duo of Miguel Cabrera and Prince Fielder continue their WS futility as the Tigers seem to be now on the receiving end of what they gave the Yankees. Just total futility, three shutouts in a row which is a WS record to open up the series. Think sonny has to think again about dissin' my Giants prediction of WS victory...though I DID say 7 games, not anticipating the potential of a Giant sweep at all!

[Sausy]

Giants go up 3-0 over Detroit as Ryan Vogelsong continues his strong playoff run going five and two thirds scoreless innings and Tim Lincecum continued his dominating relief efforts pitching two plus innings in a 2-0 Giants triumph going back to Detroit....Detroit's power duo of Miguel Cabrera and Prince Fielder continue their WS futility as the Tigers seem to be now on the receiving end of what they gave the Yankees. Just total futility, three shutouts in a row which is a WS record to open up the series. Think sonny has to think again about dissin' my Giants prediction of WS victory...though I DID say 7 games, not anticipating the potential of a Giant sweep at all!

Ooops..my bad....Barry Zito allowed one run in the first game, past two were shutouts but the Tigers did score 2 additional runs in the first game after Zito left.

[sonny10305]

Think sonny has to think again about dissin' my Giants prediction of WS victory...though I DID say 7 games, not anticipating the potential of a Giant sweep at all!

Nah not at all I have no dog in this fight just thought the Tigers were a better team but it will be all good for the Giants cause they are in the National League after all. I hate to see it end so quickly wanna just hang on to baseball for as long as possible before the long cold winter without it. But at least us Mets fans will have Kevin Burkhardts Mets Hot Stove which starts up again on SNY November 15

[Ninja108]

To me,the Giants were the better team entering into this series. The ALCS hid the fact the Tigers are a streaky team as well and their bullpen is a diaster.

[sonny10305]

To me,the Giants were the better team entering into this series. The ALCS hid the fact the Tigers are a streaky team as well and their bullpen is a diaster.

Too bad the Tigers turned into the Yankees at the end

[Sausy]

Yep, sonny and Ninja. Giants deserve this and Detroit proved streaky offensively. Verlander,Cabrera and Fielder were no match for great team pitching and Marco Scutaro! In the end, clutch team work is more important than players with gaudy statistics and huge contracts....hope for our Mets maybe, sonny that it isn't necessarily a long climb for our Mets to get into serious playoff contention.

Ninja, at least you get some satisfaction the Tigers turned into the Yanks, as sonny said. Wish it was a more competitive WS, six or seven games. This one isn't going to go down as a thriller by any means because it ended in a Giants sweep but congratul
tions to the Giants on a job well done.

[Sausy]

Nah not at all I have no dog in this fight just thought the Tigers were a better team but it will be all good for the Giants cause they are in the National League after all. I hate to see it end so quickly wanna just hang on to baseball for as long as possible before the long cold winter without it. But at least us Mets fans will have Kevin Burkhardts Mets Hot Stove which starts up again on SNY November 15

I'm about to go into baseball withdrawal,too...oh, I hate that too but looking forward to KB's show and especially your Mets Hot Stove thread!

[gtru1981]

Congrats to the Giants! How weird that the New York Foorball Giants won the Super Bowl this year and the SG Giants (once the NY Giants) won the World Series.

To bad both teams dont play in the same city and stadium anymore.

[Ninja108]

Not shocked at all by the Tigers sweep. As with the Yankees showing the flaws they had all year in the ALCS,the Tigers showed the ones they had in the World Series.
If Cabrera and Fielder could be held hitless,most of the TIgers offense would go along with them. That and their bullpen proved to be their doom.
COngrats to the Giants,who were the better team and IMO,were the best team in this postseason from the start.

[gtru1981]

The Miami Marlins have started their fire sale, and traded Jose Reyes, Mark Buehrle, Josh Johnson, Emilio Bonifacio, John Buck and Jeff Conine are heading to Toronto.

The Dodgers are setting themselves up for failure and bankrupcy in their near future. I can smeel it!

http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/bit...d-to-blue-jays

[Ninja108]

Loria has done this time and time again. If MLB wants baseball to fail in FLorida,they are doing a darn good job of it by allowing him to remain owner.

[King Gumby VIII]

Blue jays are having a busy offseason. Getting a lot of players. Looks like they are trying to compete in the AL East.

[Ninja108]

They are..but many of thier players are the same ones that failed to gel as a team down there..I don't see it being any different up here.

[Sausy]

Have to mention the passing of Marvin Miller at 95. His confrontational style made him unpopular with owners and wouldn't work in today's baesball landscape but he brought the MLB players from virtual indentured servitude bound to their teams unless traded or discarded to free agency which gave players a great say in the affairs of the game as well as far greater control over therir destinies. Arbitration, free agency, so much that Marvin Millers iron will forged by his direction of the steelworkers union that baseball players seem to take for granted today at times. A great man who even for his controversially combative personality should be in the Baesball Hall of Fame simply for how greatly his leadership helped transform the game.

[Ninja108]

We might gripe about the contracts of today but as you pointed out,they were basically treated like slaves until Miller stood up for them. It's a shame he wasn't put in the HOF.

[Sausy]

We might gripe about the contracts of today but as you pointed out,they were basically treated like slaves until Miller stood up for them. It's a shame he wasn't put in the HOF.

Oh yes, Ninja. Ten year 200+ million dollar contracts aren't great for baseball but what existed before was truly indentured servitude even for the best players and it is the players that make the game memorable and part of the national fabric. Marvin Miller gave dignity and equal footing to the players... he revolutionized organized sports and how can he not be recognized for changing the game so inherently from an unequal exploitation to a tremendous revenue maker worth billions it is today? Marvin Miller belongs in the HOF without question.