How do you Britons feel about ?

[pat grimshaw]

How do you Britons feel about the fact that a traumatic part of your nation's recent history has been being turned into a soap-opera to show off Meryl Streep's skills of impersonation?

[BENDERBOY]

I'd already lost any respect for Streep after that Mama Mia abortion, can't see the film being that big of a success, anywhere apart from England and possibly America,
As for Thatcher herself, well the last time there was a Thatcher Thread all my posts got removed, and my name probably given over to Scotland Yard,

[kallipolis]

This film is reaping in big money with cinemas advising would be patrons to expect full houses. The film's references to Margaret Thatcher's later life matter with dementia acknowledges that she is as human as any other person.

Meryl Streep is a very fine actress well deserving of her reputation.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ox-office.html

When my father was working at the Greek embassy in London, during the eighties he had the good fortune to meet Thatcher at various diplomatic functions, and spoke highly of her intelligence, and awareness of Greek political matters.

The British people registered their approval of Thatcher by electing the Conservative Party into government, three times under her leadership, eventually removed from leadership by a coup within her own cabinet.

[kallipolis]

I'd already lost any respect for Streep after that Mama Mia abortion, can't see the film being that big of a success, anywhere apart from England and possibly America,
As for Thatcher herself, well the last time there was a Thatcher Thread all my posts got removed, and my name probably given over to Scotland Yard,

I doubt that the anti terrorist division would be too interested in yet, another angry Scot determined to re-write history based on events that took place before you were born.

[BENDERBOY]

What so i wasn't born during her reign, so i don't get to have an opinion, does the same go for Hitler and the Nazi ?

Yet again another sychophantic right winger, you do know she hated gay people don't you.
And i hardly think the Scottish jibe works considering great parts of the UK, hated her guts,



Where's my shovel.

[kallipolis]

Frankie Boyle - please, excuse my laughter.

I am well known on these forums for being centre left in my political leaning, thus evidencing your easy willingness to misinterpret, and misjudge people.

Your personal opinion of Margaret Thatcher is duly noted. I also repeat that Margaret Thatcher led her party to victory at three consecutive general elections, suggesting that her appeal was much greater than you are prepared to give her credit. Facts speak the truth. Your revisionist opinions are just that.

[BENDERBOY]

You really need to get a sense of humour, Frankie Boyle rocks.

[kallipolis]

We can agree that your blindness to the facts of history is best shaded from the eyes of reality.

I am happy that pink is your choice.

I note your rapid removal of the rose tinted sun glasses.

[Bend Over9]

You are the greatest even in political matters, BENDY

[palemale]

Frankie Boyle - please, excuse my laughter.

I am well known on these forums for being centre left in my political leaning, thus evidencing your easy willingness to misinterpret, and misjudge people.

Your personal opinion of Margaret Thatcher is duly noted. I also repeat that Margaret Thatcher led her party to victory at three consecutive general elections, suggesting that her appeal was much greater than you are prepared to give her credit. Facts speak the truth. Your revisionist opinions are just that.

If memory serves me right, Thatcher's Conservative Party never got a majority of votes cast, getting percentages somewhere in the low forties. Of course, the nature of the British electoral system is such that no party may ever get majorities.

Of course, Tony Blair was very popular for a time, doesn't me he wasn't an asshole. Thatcher was a horrible human being.

[papipaco]

That video made me laugh pretty hard.... Just sayin'

[White Eagle]

What so i wasn't born during her reign, so i don't get to have an opinion, does the same go for Hitler and the Nazi ?

Yet again another sychophantic right winger, you do know she hated gay people don't you.
And i hardly think the Scottish jibe works considering great parts of the UK, hated her guts,



Where's my shovel.

I have to admit 2 things.
1. I think this video is very humorous.
2. I am not aware of Thatcher being so hated. Looks like I'll have some time coming up that requires much reading .
Oh, #3. I love Streeps movies, even Mama Mia, so I will have to watch Iron lady.

[kallipolis]

If memory serves me right, Thatcher's Conservative Party never got a majority of votes cast, getting percentages somewhere in the low forties. Of course, the nature of the British electoral system is such that no party may ever get majorities.

Of course, Tony Blair was very popular for a time, doesn't me he wasn't an asshole. Thatcher was a horrible human being.

That's how the Westminster parliamentary system of government works.

The British people transparently disagreed with your characterisation of Thatcher as a horrible human being, with three consecutive general election victories under Thatcher's belt to prove her popularity among the electorate.

[CowboyBob]

I had to google to see which movie you were talking about.

The Iron Lady

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1007029/

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDiCFY2zsfc[/ame]

She does look like Mrs. Thatcher in this photo.

[JayHawk]

You really need to get a sense of humour, Frankie Boyle rocks.

That was pretty awesome... the only time the twenty one gun salute shoots the coffin

I agree that you rock... Bendy for PM... we'd have porn flowing in the streets.


Oh and dont mind the CE&p -ers ... to much hate rolling around no matter the topic

[unloadonme]

The film is just entertainment and is of as transient interest as any other. The more or less universal opinion of the critics is that Streep gives an excellent performance in an otherwise lacklustre film.

As for The Lady's governments being "a traumatic part of your nation's recent history", I disagree. I remember it as a period of increasing prosperity and contentment and I always regarded The Lady herself as middle of the road politically. As Kallipolis has said, would she really have won three consecutive general elections (and John Major after her a fourth) if she was truly as unpopular as has become fashionable in certain trendy quarters to suggest was the case?

I regard The Lady as without doubt the greatest peace time Prime Minister of the twentieth century. The worst would be a toss up between Ted Heath and Gordon Brown (although strictly he's a twenty-first century PM before anyone picks me up on that), but nobody seems interested in making such spiteful comments about them.

[palemale]

The British people transparently disagreed with your characterisation of Thatcher as a horrible human being, with three consecutive general election victories under Thatcher's belt to prove her popularity among the electorate.

I don't think this statement is accurate. She was apparently one of the most unpopular post-war Prime Ministers ever:

During her premiership Thatcher had the second-lowest average approval rating, at 40 percent, of any post-war Prime Minister. Polls consistently showed that she was less popular than her party. A self-described conviction politician, Thatcher always insisted that she did not care about her poll ratings, pointing instead to her unbeaten election record.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Thatcher

I guess one of the problems with the British system is that a Prime Minister who is deeply unpopular with a majority of voters, and a very divisive figure, can attain and hold power for a long time, even if their party never gets close to a majority of votes.

[anchihiro]

The Iron Lady is a platform for more awards and possibly that third oscar for Streep. Not a soap opera for her impersonation skills as you so lazily put.

It may work simply because although she leaves a bad taste for british memories, the usa and majoritive oscar etc voters won't feel the same.

[rareboy]

Apparently Streep is incredible.

[pat grimshaw]

…I remember it as a period of increasing prosperity and contentment …

Perhaps I've been listening to the Whinging Poms who migrated to my country —and I haven't found anything on Wiki— but I was under the impression that the North and all of Britain's manufacturing industry was allowed to die for the cause of 'economic rationalisation' during her regime.

I am choosing not to spend money on seeing this movie because I understand the suffering of all those people and these industries are presented as some kind of incidental background to the drama of the 'Shakespearean heroine'.

I saw a gushing publicity interview where Streep 'ummed' and 'ahhed' and then meandered through a stream of conscious monologue mentioning the words 'passion', 'journey' etc etc to convince herself that Thatcher was a feminist.

So I'm guessing that millions of women across the world who seek to 'self-actualise' themself will be spending their money to see this Hollywood-style, historically-incorrect gushing tear-jerker.

[unloadonme]

Perhaps I've been listening to the Whinging Poms who migrated to my country —and I haven't found anything on Wiki— but I was under the impression that the North and all of Britain's manufacturing industry was allowed to die for the cause of 'economic rationalisation' during her regime.

Well I live in the north and I don't think it was allowed to die at all. It would certainly be true to say that a lot of manufacturing industry closed down, but there were new industries too such as the Nissan plant in Washington.

The spinning industry employed many people in the north and it's now largely gone. That was due to cheap foreign competition and the desire of the British to have inexpensive rather than good quality clothes. That's the global market in operation and there was little or nothing which successive British governments of both stripes could do about it.

The Lady is perhaps best remembered (or most reviled if you read some of the other posts) for the mineworkers' strike in 1983. As I understand it, the majority of the mines were outdated and uneconomic. It simply cost more to dig the coal out of the ground than it could be sold for when it was got to the surface. Has it ever been the role of government to prop up uneconomic industries indefinitely?

The Office of National Statistics has produced figures which show that manufacturing as a percentage of the UK's national economy fell from 25.8% to 22.5% under The Lady from 1979 to 1990. The comparative figures for the Labour government of Tony Blair was a reduction from over 20% in 1997 to 12.4% in 2007. Much of what is said about The Lady comes from people who are are just not interested in inconvenient truths like these.

[kallipolis]

I don't think this statement is accurate. She was apparently one of the most unpopular post-war Prime Ministers ever:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Thatcher

I guess one of the problems with the British system is that a Prime Minister who is deeply unpopular with a majority of voters, and a very divisive figure, can attain and hold power for a long time, even if their party never gets close to a majority of votes.

I am always well aware that your often stated Irish Republican sympathies colours your feelings towards Margaret Thatcher, who along with her cabinet narrowly missed a murder attempt when the IRA exploded a bomb at a Brighton hotel where the annual Conservative Party conference was being held.

I can only relate to the fact that Thatcher won three consecutive general elections for her party, which indicates that facts speak much more accurately than your prejudices.

I am sure that Margaret Thatcher's legacy, and perceptions of unpopularity among those with a dedicated agenda is a matter of political partisanship, when appreciating that Thatcher's three consecutive election victories is the stuff that irritates those who would have turned the UK into a Marxist-Leninist state had they had their way.

And of course as an American you would also feel some righteous anger when recalling that Al Gore won the popular vote in the 2000 general election, despite George W. Bush being handed the crown by a decision of the United States Supreme Court.

[rareboy]

Perhaps I've been listening to the Whinging Poms who migrated to my country —and I haven't found anything on Wiki— but I was under the impression that the North and all of Britain's manufacturing industry was allowed to die for the cause of 'economic rationalisation' during her regime.

I am choosing not to spend money on seeing this movie because I understand the suffering of all those people and these industries are presented as some kind of incidental background to the drama of the 'Shakespearean heroine'.

I saw a gushing publicity interview where Streep 'ummed' and 'ahhed' and then meandered through a stream of conscious monologue mentioning the words 'passion', 'journey' etc etc to convince herself that Thatcher was a feminist.

So I'm guessing that millions of women across the world who seek to 'self-actualise' themself will be spending their money to see this Hollywood-style, historically-incorrect gushing tear-jerker.

I'm sure that the Hollywood movie industry will be crushed by you not buying a ticket and harrumphing on a porn site forum about la Streep.

[pat grimshaw]

^
So, I suppose that means you'll be including yourself amongst those millions to whom I alluded in my last paragraph.

I think it's a pity that this teary soap opera will, in time, be accepted as the reality. People prefer to believe the gaudy version over the truth, they remember Shakespeare's Richard III instead of the real one; they believe John Wayne and Erroll Flynn single-handedly won World War II and that Conan Doyle's 'Sherlock Holmes' is a flabby, gun-toting Russian-Jewish Irishman.

[bw92116]

Hell, I lost respect for Meryl way back at Death Becomes Her, but she's still a great actress. I'm sure I'll eat up every bit of the film whenever I get around to watching it.

[kallipolis]

Hell, I lost respect for Meryl way back at Death Becomes Her, but she's still a great actress. I'm sure I'll eat up every bit of the film whenever I get around to watching it.

Whereas I am always sent into seventh heaven when viewing "Death becomes her."

[quasar]

I'd already lost any respect for Streep after that Mama Mia abortion, can't see the film being that big of a success, anywhere apart from England and possibly America,
As for Thatcher herself, well the last time there was a Thatcher Thread all my posts got removed, and my name probably given over to Scotland Yard,

And yet surprisingly, on it's opening weekend, the largest box office take outside of London was in Glasgow and Edinburgh.

[BENDERBOY]

Screw all of them i'm off to see The Smurfs,

[rareboy]

^
So, I suppose that means you'll be including yourself amongst those millions to whom I alluded in my last paragraph.

I think it's a pity that this teary soap opera will, in time, be accepted as the reality. People prefer to believe the gaudy version over the truth, they remember Shakespeare's Richard III instead of the real one; they believe John Wayne and Erroll Flynn single-handedly won World War II and that Conan Doyle's 'Sherlock Holmes' is a flabby, gun-toting Russian-Jewish Irishman.

[pat grimshaw]

How come those Hollywood wolves don't plunder the history and heroes of Canada to make pap for the masses?

[rareboy]

Too boring.

Same as why they don't bother with Australia.

[levenshulme31]

Meryl Streep playing Thatcher makes a change from English actors playing American villains.

As for her recoprd, she took school milk away in the early seventies, decimated british industry to satisfy her dogmatic opposition to trade unions, cosied up to murderous dictators like Pinochet (because he helped out in the Falkands War, a war which could probably have been avoided, but nothing helps a re-election campaign like a few months of whipped up jingoistic fervour, she started the privatisation of Britain's coal, gas, electricity, airports, railways - so they are now largely foreign-owned and fleecing the British consumers. She allowed the North Sea Oil and gas wealth to be pissed away into city profits instead of it being invested for everyone's future (like Norway did), she opposed sanctions against the Apartheid regime in South Africa.

As for the gays, she introduced the despicable Clause 28 which made it illegal for local authorities in Britain to 'promote' homosexuality (which essentially made it a crime for any teacher, council official to say anything positive about homosexuality).

She also introduced the Poll Tax which led to rioting in the streets, allowed Reagan to plant American nuclear weapons on British bases, and generally oversaw the introduction of the 'Fuck you, I'm alright' mentallity which is so pervasive and damaging in the country.

A minority of idealogues worship her (kind of like how Bush and Reagan are worshipped by certain sections of America).

I'm with Frankie on this one.

[kallipolis]

Meryl Streep playing Thatcher makes a change from English actors playing American villains.

As for her recoprd, she took school milk away in the early seventies, decimated british industry to satisfy her dogmatic opposition to trade unions, cosied up to murderous dictators like Pinochet (because he helped out in the Falkands War, a war which could probably have been avoided, but nothing helps a re-election campaign like a few months of whipped up jingoistic fervour, she started the privatisation of Britain's coal, gas, electricity, airports, railways - so they are now largely foreign-owned and fleecing the British consumers. She allowed the North Sea Oil and gas wealth to be pissed away into city profits instead of it being invested for everyone's future (like Norway did), she opposed sanctions against the Apartheid regime in South Africa.

As for the gays, she introduced the despicable Clause 28 which made it illegal for local authorities in Britain to 'promote' homosexuality (which essentially made it a crime for any teacher, council official to say anything positive about homosexuality).

She also introduced the Poll Tax which led to rioting in the streets, allowed Reagan to plant American nuclear weapons on British bases, and generally oversaw the introduction of the 'Fuck you, I'm alright' mentallity which is so pervasive and damaging in the country.

A minority of idealogues worship her (kind of like how Bush and Reagan are worshipped by certain sections of America).

I'm with Frankie on this one.

That Argentina invaded the Falkland Islands with an army of some 11,000 soldiers to subdue, and imprison some 2000 unarmed British sheep farmers, and a mighty British defence force of some 90 lightly armed Royal Marines does suggest that even Thatcher could not have prevented this surprise invasion.

Victory for the British was sweet for it also resulted in the collapse of the vicious military dictatorship then governing Argentina. A fascist junta that had murdered some 30,000 innocent unarmed Argentinians for daring to voice democratic opinions in public. The methodology employed by the junta's killing teams simply involved throwing their victims out of aircraft over open sea to ensure their bodies were never discovered.

I repeat that you continue to ignore the fact that Margaret Thatcher led the Conservative Party to victory at three consecutive general elections, leading me to believe that the British people do not share your interpretation of history.

[rareboy]

Margaret Thatcher was a first class cunt.

She makes all the rest of them look second class.

[unloadonme]

Margaret Thatcher was a first class cunt.

She makes all the rest of them look second class.

That must be the most cretinously ill-informed post of the year to date.

[rareboy]

I guess it is easy enough to take offense if you don't see it as one of her strengths.

[palbert]

How come those Hollywood wolves don't plunder the history and heroes of Canada to make pap for the masses?

Didn't Hollywood immortalize the history of Canada with Jeanette MacDonald and Nelson Eddy. Oh how the Maple Leaf must recall "Indian Love Call." And the Royal Cacadian Mounted Police recall "Rose Marie."

And, Pat, remember much of Canada's WWII involvement was Australian: Errol Flynn.

Plunder. Pap. You perpetrate a disservice.

[levenshulme31]

I repeat that you continue to ignore the fact that Margaret Thatcher led the Conservative Party to victory at three consecutive general elections, leading me to believe that the British people do not share your interpretation of history.

She and the Conservative party won the elections but they never won a majority of the vote.

1979 they got 43.9%, 1983 it was 42.4% and 42.2% in 1987.

Of course, this is usually the way with elections, particulalry when there are multiple parties to vote for, but I still say the majority were against her.

[pat grimshaw]

Too boring.…Same as why they don't bother with Australia.

Unfortunately Streep has already done a movie about that simple Australian woman who claimed a dingo stole her baby. Streep's accent was ludicrous.

Margaret Thatcher was a first class cunt. …She makes all the rest of them look second class.

…it as one of her strengths.

We can tell you aspire to move up to the first class yourself. But this 'Diva worship' / 'Personality Cult adoration of Streep and Thatcher is yet another aspect that repels me about this American sentimental hogwash of a fiction movie.

[kallipolis]

She and the Conservative party won the elections but they never won a majority of the vote.

1979 they got 43.9%, 1983 it was 42.4% and 42.2% in 1987.

Of course, this is usually the way with elections, particulalry when there are multiple parties to vote for, but I still say the majority were against her.

The Conservative Party won three consecutive elections under Thatcher, followed by a fourth under John Major following Thatcher's resignation.

Unless you can offer us proof that the balance of the vote at those three consecutive general elections was specifically focused against Thatcher, rather than in favour of the voters' preferred party, and it's manifesto your opinion remains a mere guess based upon your clearly enunciated prejudices against Thatcher.

You are very well aware that under the Westminster system of government the party winning the most parliamentary seats assumes power.

[pat grimshaw]

Well, today Streep apologises to Britain 'for trampling all over your history".

[rareboy]

Unfortunately Streep has already done a movie about that simple Australian woman who claimed a dingo stole her baby. Streep's accent was ludicrous.




We can tell you aspire to move up to the first class yourself. But this 'Diva worship' / 'Personality Cult adoration of Streep and Thatcher is yet another aspect that repels me about this American sentimental hogwash of a fiction movie.

Isn't it time this gets moved to the Entertainment forum?

It is only peripherally about Thatcher...your big axe to grind is with the actress in a movie...hardly a worthy topic for CE&P.

[Telstra]

What so i wasn't born during her reign, so i don't get to have an opinion, does the same go for Hitler and the Nazi ?

Yet again another sychophantic right winger, you do know she hated gay people don't you.
And i hardly think the Scottish jibe works considering great parts of the UK, hated her guts,



Where's my shovel.

the video is zero funny.
Are the laughing fake or real?

[rareboy]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz...portrayal.html

Cor Blimey.

The Daily Mail is shocked and appalled.

[palemale]

Unfortunately Streep has already done a movie about that simple Australian woman who claimed a dingo stole her baby. Streep's accent was ludicrous.

I'm sure "Iron Lady," would have been a better movie if, upon learning of Argentina's invasion of the Falkland/Malvinas Islands, Meryl Streep as Margaret Thatcher had started screaming, "dingo ate the baby!"

[palemale]

I am always well aware that your often stated Irish Republican sympathies colours your feelings towards Margaret Thatcher, who along with her cabinet narrowly missed a murder attempt when the IRA exploded a bomb at a Brighton hotel where the annual Conservative Party conference was being held.

And let's forget the time British commandos assassinated 3 unarmed IRA operatives in Gilbralter. Thatcher's Northern Ireland policy was horrible, so that's plenty of reason to hate her.

As a strong supporter of labor rights, that was another reason to hate Thatcher. Of course, I hate most politicians who fetishize free-markets and use it as a justification for trampling the rights of people.

[palemale]

Too boring.

Same as why they don't bother with Australia.

I don't know if this is true. A movie about PM Pierre Trudeau would be full of sex and drugs and rock and roll. Unfortunately, Meryl Streep is too old to play his wife, Margaret. Maybe Angelina Jolie would be available. Canadian accents are easy for Americans, we only have to speak like someone from the Mid-west and say "ay" at the end of each sentence.

[kallipolis]

And let's forget the time British commandos assassinated 3 unarmed IRA operatives in Gilbralter. Thatcher's Northern Ireland policy was horrible, so that's plenty of reason to hate her.

As a strong supporter of labor rights, that was another reason to hate Thatcher. Of course, I hate most politicians who fetishize free-markets and use it as a justification for trampling the rights of people.

You are referring to the gang of assassins who had been monitored by the Spanish anti terrorist police as far as Gibraltar, where they were intending to murder unarmed bandsman who daily parade in front of the governor's residence.

An SAS unit confronted the IRA murder gang, and killed them before they could kill the unarmed bandsmen.

I am sure that Thatcher had no misgivings about taking on a terrorist organisation, and combating them on their own terms.

Of course you reject the free market for your many posts have registered your political allegiances. As is your democratic right.

http://www.eliteukforces.info/specia...sas-gibraltar/

I quote:
Operation Flavius - The SAS In Gibraltar

In March of 1988, British Intelligence became aware of an IRA plot to attack a parade of British military bands in Gibraltar. An SAS unit was tasked with intercepting the IRA cell. The SAS mission was code-named 'Operation Flavius'.

The IRA Plot

Based on intelligence, the British believed the PIRA planned to set off a bomb in Gibraltar. For some weeks, Spanish security services had been watching a 3-person cell as it gathered in Spain. The PIRA Active Service Unit (ASU) was made up of 2 men and a woman - Danny McCann, Seán Savage and Mairéad Farrell. It is believed that they planned to cross over into the British Territory of Gibraltar, place explosives in the boot of a car at the assembly point for a scheduled parade and detonate it remotely. To guarantee the best spot, the ASU reserved a suitable location by parking a 'clean' car in it until they were ready to replace it with the one rigged with explosives. The location was next to Inces Hall, where the band and soldiers for the parade would be mustered.

[curiousbob]

Well, today Streep apologises to Britain 'for trampling all over your history".

it s ok hollywood have been doing that for years and years, lol
and im with bendie and franky boil on this one i remember those days

[pat grimshaw]

Johann Bessler, in another thread, informs me that Thatcher said—
"Words are corrosive...Even the most hardened of us are affected by them."

I wonder if this is true? I wasn't around at the time and I can't see it on Wiki. I wonder if it's deliberate pun on the words 'corrosive' and 'iron'?

I've always loved the slogan 'This Lady's Not for Turning' which was a punning reference to a verse play by a gay writer and which starred John Gielgud and Richard Burton. But unfortunately, Wiki this time tells me it was written by a speech-writer.

http://www.justusboys.com/forum/show...42#post7862842
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_lady's_not_for_turning
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lady's_Not_for_Burning