I guess I can see your point. I'm not calling Dean an innocent bystander, it's just that it seems to me as if Dean's descent into darkness was forced on him. I mean, the only reason he decided to torture the other souls in hell was because he had been broken by Alistair. He couldn't stand the pain anymore. How was he to know that it would lead to the breaking of the first seal?
And, now that I think about it, Sam is being pushed as well by outside schemes. Azazel (Yellow-eyes) gave him his blood for a reason, and it might be that he is being guided towards that purpose (by Ruby?). But, unlike his brother, he is not being forced down his path, not anymore. His powers are growing because he is freely taking in more demon's blood. Who knows what the hell effect that will have on him?
My point is, right now, it seems that Sam's corruption is more voluntary than was Dean's.
The decision was Dean's, yes, but it was one made under torture. People under torture will do just about anything to make the pain stop. The fact that John lasted 100 years before escaping Hell just means that his resolve was stronger. Who's to say that he would have lasted all eternity on the rack? I guess that's a moot point, though. Would Dean have made the same choice under any other circumstance?
Sam began honing his power way before he knew about Lilith's plan to bring on the Apocalypse. And even after Dean was pulled from Hell, and delivered the warning from Heaven to stop using his power, Sam still went ahead with it.
Sam's actions have and continue to echo that of John. So yes of course he'd begin to hone his powers when she took Dean from him. Twisting under the pain and anguish of his losses Sam's knee jerk reaction is vengance, gunning for Azazeal after the Pilot, The Trickster after Dean's deaths in Mystery Spot, and Lilith after Dean's death at the end of season three. But if you haven't noticed Dean's ability to cope with such a trauma is no better, in fact the inablitiy to reconcile loss at the hands of the supernatural is a recurring motiff among the Winchester clan. Dean just chooses the method of selfish self-sacrafice akin to Mary. He martyers himself on a regular basis but that doesn't make it any less of a concious decision. Unlike Sam and John, Dean and Mary are more overwhelemed with a kind of survivor's guilt and a desire to simpy use a devine method of erasure, showing a willingness to deal in the dark arts/with demons in the face of loss. (Mary making the initial deal with Azazeal and Dean dealing with the Crossroads Demon when Sam died.) Neither can tolerate the reprecussions of a loss and choose to ignore the fact that the nature of their deals will ultimately undermine the idilic life which they long to create. They are so overcome with the greif and desperation to attain these impossible versions of reality that they make these stupid Faustian bargains which may appear to be sacrafices of themselves but ultimately demand just as much as from around them. And even more than Mary, Dean had to have been aware of this, having suffered under the fallout of John's deal. He knew. He just didn't care because he expected Sam to be able to cope with the trauma he could not accept. He is just a copable as Sam for the darkness that has been thrusted upon him. He bought into the bargain thinking he could withstand it, making the deal, but ultimately folded. Sam is in the process of buying in, thinking he can control these powers rather than be controlled by them, and may ultimately fold.
(By the way Sam's relationship with Ruby at this point can quite easily snap into a metaphor for homosexuality. Am I the only one who notices this? Every one of the 'righteous' characters condemn him and tell him that because of a divine mandate his demonism (ie. homosexuality) is wrong and don't want him eve remotely associated with some sort of demonic relationship. Yet at the same time the characters who are suppose to represent, or claim to represent, good have exhibited behavior that was far more questionable than anything Sam's done. They isist that it's not what he does with his power, in fact at times they've tried to do the very thing he does but failed, but the nature of the power itself. Which parallels perfectly the way Christian theology is unable to explain WHY homosexuality is suppose to be wrong or how its hurtful to humanity and rather just insists at a root amorality at the nature of it. Metaphorically Ruby might as well be a man.)
Okay, Falconfan, I will concede the point to you--for now. Mainly because I'm tired and really can't come up with a good arguement. Jesus, you came into this with your guns blazing! Well played.
As far as Dean made a choice in hell to be evil, and John didn't, I'm sorry. I'm going to need someone a LOT more trustworthy than fucking Alastair tell me that John was over three times more righteous than Dean before I'm buying it. Of course, that could be because I'm an unapologetic Deanboy.
There are no words. Just the sound of jacking off.
I just watched last week show today and it was great.I like the story line they have going right now.
I actually liked tonight's standalone. Visually it was cool to see the guys in this high-color storybook world. Jensen looked especially good. I've never been a huge fan of Jensen physically but he was lookin pretty damn fine. Also, Ive never been into Wincest but they were hot together when they werent brothers. Although some people might find the ending a bit cheesy, it worked for me.
last night's show was kind of corny but pretty good, after last weeks awesome episode I'll let the next couple of shows slide.
I finally managed to catch the last episode online. Loved it--especially seeing the Ghostfacers again. Oh the irony of having the dorktastic duo (side note: I don't know what it is, but they get cuter every time I see them) show Sam and Dean the ropes of ghostbusting. Dean looked gorgeous in his douchey power suits, and Sam, oh God, Sam looked like he was ready to bust out of that shirt. Could these two men be any hotter?
God it takes the CW FOREVER to get videos up on it's website! It's ridiculous.
But now that it's posted I can way in. 1) Jensen is so fucking gorgeous 2) Jared is so fucking tall 3) I like that they dealt with reclaiming Dean's confidence so quickly and easily. It was necessary given the character but I wasn't really in the mood for mopey Dean, you know? So I approve. It was a fairly clever premise/episode but not surprised Sera seldom disappoints. 4) I love the Ghostfacers. I so hope that they can be a spin off.
^^Why wait for the CW to post the episode? Wait at least a day, and the latest episode will be posted online. try this:
Sites like that are sketch. I'll save my computer the spyware and wait a few days.
Don't blame me. Blame legendary cinematographer Ellen Kuras for choosing that time for choosing that time to screen her Oscar nominated documentary and then answer questions.
Last weeks episode was awesome and Friday's season finale does as well.
It looks like both Sam and Dean got played
Yeah I know! The finale looks like it's gonna be freaking awesome
I can't hardly wait for Thursday! Although I've only dipped in and out of the series before, I've become hooked this season. Now I'm determined to play catch up with the DVDs.
Guyysss... I hate cliffhangers...
But lots of good twists and turns tonight in the season finale! Any word of the next season?
Season Finale FTW!!!!!!! Second season in a row I spent the whole season saying 'but they can't actually do that...' and then they fucking did. God it gest better and better every season and I LOVE LOVE LOVE that Ruby was the evil bitch I always knew she was in my heart of hearts, though I really did think she'd turn out to be Meg.
And may I ad that I give MAJOR props to any show that's willing to end a season with THE FUCKING APOCALYPSE and still be signed on for a full next season.
I did expect a little more on-screen angel action tbqh. I would have liked to see what an archangel looked like. It was pretty lame to only see the bright lights and ominous rumbling AGAIN. And it seemed so bizarre that Lucifer was rising and the angels were pretty much sitting there and fighting with each other.
As far as Ruby, I figured it was gonna go exactly as it did. I'm not dissatisfied, but I wish there was a way to keep a female character around without fangirls/boys going completely ballistic. Maybe Anna could have showed up.
I wonder what Zacharia meant when asked by Dean where God is in all this,he casually states "God has left the building".
The way things look here now,between the horror of the demons and the arrogance,coldness and condescension of the angel leadership,there is no rooting for anyone now the stage for the Apolcalypse has been set.
Pamela and that Reaper were dead on in their cautionary last messages to the Winchester brothers....with Lucifer now about to be freed up from hell,at least Sam and Dean were able to reconcile,especially with Sam remorseful he had been played by Ruby.What a bitch and thankfully,she is gone forever.Lilith as well....though now thae brothers have their work to stop the seemingly inevitable carnage of Armageddon cut out for them as an understatement.
Read that Castiel(Misha Collins) will be a regular next year.Wonder if that's confirmed?Glad to see Castiel go with his instincts and do the right thing,helping Dean get to Sam....hoping to see more of Anna next season as well.The last year of Supernatural should provide one,pardon the pun,"hell" of a ride!
Jersey City waterfront/New York City JUB meet on September27/28... come to the Big Apple!!!!!!!!!
I read about Misha being a regular as well. But Supernatural always has budget problems. That's why they couldnt afford Katie Cassidy anymore and they limited the amount of times the other girl appeared. I think they have to keep Castiel around a little to tie up loose ends.
Pretty good finale for Supernatural. Perhaps I was expecting a tad more, but it was still solid. I, too, hope Castiel and his sexy voice are back next season.
I don't mind them holding back on the archangels for two reasons. 1) I know they have budget issues. 2) I'm sure they'll play a part in the next season and I like some suspense and it gives them some ability to pull it out as a surprise.
My gut tells me that Anna will be back and will feature heavily next season with Castiel. I think there's gonna be heaven, hell, and the rouge angels in between and that our boys will likely be with the rouge group. But who knows. The fangirls/boys have gotten better though when you compare the Jo/Bela fallout with that of Anna and Ruby (or Meg who fans seemed to love). I feel like when the characters grow organically from the story, and you can tell which ones do, then they go over better.
As far as the angels sitting around and letting Lucifer rise that makes PERFECT sense in the context of the episode. Heaven wants the apocalypse to happen so it can have it's finally victory. Actually when I was explaining the arc of the season to someone they asked me why heaven would try ot stop the apocalypse because it's a biblical phenomenon that's triggered by God's will. It's our human bias that assumes that the heavens would want to stop something that would cause mass death when it's really part of their 'plan'
Here's an interesting link to a Q&A with Misha Collins. He says he will be back for season #5 and that, in fact, the show could have a season #6 since both Jared and Jensen are under contract.
finale was a bit of a letdown, but most shows' finales are. heaven, hell, angels, demons....that stuff usually creeps me the hell out, but i did enjoy where they went with the storyline this season.
the thing with Ruby surprised me. i figured she was up to something, but like falcon, i was thinking it had something to do with allying herself with Sam.
it would be sweet as hell, if they could somehow bring Bela back next season. maybe as some kick-ass, superbitch from hell or something. also wouldn't mind seeing John back for a major story.
I actually think that Ruby was referring to the blood. She says something like "...it wasn't the blood, it was you and your choices...You didn't need the feather to fly, you had it in you the whole time Dumbo." Diluted demon blood wouldn't do anything for Sam after he's already had Azazel's. I think Sam's whole subconscious I don't want a be a monster thing was holding him back. Remember back to season two when they had the special children wars. The psychic strong black guy and the demon controlling girl both say its like dominoes once you give in you can do anything, but as a side effect you go evil. I think Sam's been blocking his powers this whole time so he wouldn't be a monster and drinking the blood gave him some kind of control over himself. By doing something external, drinking blood, he could believe that he could stop being "bad" anytime he wanted. Also Sam saying that he can feel himself changing inside is right inline with what both the other strong demon children felt, going evil.
The whole withdrawal episode actually reinforces that Sam doesn't need the blood to use his powers. He was telekinetically throwing himself against the walls (long after what Bobby thought should be necessary for detox) fighting his own inner demons, fearing becoming a monster. Sam is not addicted to the blood, but he is addicted to using his powers just like the other two psychic children when they gave in, using his powers makes the demon side of him grow. Sam's addiction is unfortunately like an IV drug and constantly there that is why he never would have gotten better. Also, Ruby had plans to train him properly before the end of the last season, but at one point she says it's too late and there is no more time.
Ok, on to the next thing. Ruby has been giving half truths the entire time she was with the Winchester boys and one of the things she says is that Lilith and Sam are in a fight over hells armies. Lilith is now dead and Sam is alive so he controls hell right now, but he just doesn't really seem to have the power to keep multiple Alistair level demons in line (maybe if he had trained properly, it has always seemed to me that Sam is throwing power at the demons instead of just doing enough to kill them like using a cannon to kill a fly). Lucifer tells Azazel that he needs a very special child, I don't think he needed Sam to kill Lilith. I think Lilith was very much prepared to kill herself if Sam flaked out, the bowl of blood and other things on the alter. The blood gate on the ground seemed to have been necessary for Lucifer's release. They made it a point to show us the contents of the bowl that the demon brought her and that Lilith hit her head against the altar. I'm thinking Lilith probably would have used the bowl of blood in place of her own, magic knives wouldn't work on her so it would have to be magic that she used to commit suicide.
Who else thinks Sam is going to be Lucifer's vessel?
edit: I loved Ruby last season, but this actress just didn't have "it" for me. I've been waiting for her to die all season, but I did buy into thinking she was a good gal. It finally makes complete sense on why she fixed the Colt though if that knife doesn't kill upper level demons.
oh and does anyone understand the demon eye color thing? Did they just forgo the yellow for all the powerful demons because it was more expensive or is there some special reason that guy had yellow eyes and the other strong demons had white.
Well it's been officially announced Jensen and Jared are both contracted up to season 6 which conflicts with the fact that series creator Eric Kripke is signed only to 5 seasons and since the inception of the series has insisted that he wants the series to end at 5 seasons.
I have mixed thoughts. If they succeed in vanquishing Lucifer in season 5 I can't imagine where they could possibly go for a next season. I can't help but fear that the series could suffer if they don't resign Kripike (unless they promote long time writer Sara Gambles, but that seems unlikely considering she's rumored to have her own pilot in the works. Ben Edlund would also make a good replacement though)
i am still kinda lost on the finale but it was friggin crazy!
so is Sam bad now? and is Dean gonna kill Lucifer or did they trick him, I was tired from work and making coffee at random parts of the episode, Falconfan can you help me please <3
ps. Sorry for bumping, i see Supernatural and my fanboy goes hard
As to your questions... Is Sam bad? Sam is Sam. Nothing has fundamentally changed about his character other than the realization that the person he trusted was leading him to work for Lucifer rather than against him.
As for whether Dean will kill Lucifer. That's in the air. It's clear that the angels believe he is destined to do so and I'm sure that's what the next season will eb about but I geuss we'll just have to see how that turns out.
Reading some stuff around the internet, it seems Castiel survives Zacharias going all arch angel on his ass at the prophets house.
I think Castiel might have actually killed the arch angel or went super rogue and is gonna help Dean kill Lucifer.
I must say, I am soooo excited to see how they do Lucifer in this final season. It is definitely going to be epic no matter what they do.
Also, according to rumors, Sam will rejoin Dean, but he will still be dealing with the demon blood addiction. So there could be a possible story line where Lucifer is able to convince Sam to go to his side.
Well my assumption is that Sam is meant to be Lucifer's host and Dean is meant to host for either Michael or be the second coming but because they have their nifty little 'anti-possession' tattoos neither one of them will be able to be possessed unless they consent by removing them.