Supernatural / Jensen Ackles / Jared Padelecki [merged]

[theReckless]

The concept of one character having a secret is far to broad to be "too similar" to anything. The similarity may arise in the way they bring it out.

I meant as in -

In Bloody Mary, Dean gets affected by the curse and the writers say it's because he has a 'big secret' that we'll find out later.

And in the latest episode, Dean gets affected by another curse and again we're told it's because he has a big secret.

[falconfan]

I meant as in -

In Bloody Mary, Dean gets affected by the curse and the writers say it's because he has a 'big secret' that we'll find out later.

And in the latest episode, Dean gets affected by another curse and again we're told it's because he has a big secret.

I Bloody Mary Sam (not Dean) was attacked by the demon because it considered him a murderer (attributing Jessica's death to him). The spirit of Bloody Mary attacked murders who had gotten away with their crime in hopes of bringing them to justice. That's notably different than Dean being affected because he held some yet to be known secret.

[theReckless]

Dean was attacked by Mary too.

I'm only saying it's similar because the way in which the writers put both of these small details into the episodes (that a lot of people missed) and then later made a statement about it

[falconfan]

Dean was attacked by Mary too.

I'm only saying it's similar because the way in which the writers put both of these small details into the episodes (that a lot of people missed) and then later made a statement about it

I understand where you'd say they're similar but I dont' think they're overly similar. Dean's interactions with Bloody Mary was strictly a by-product of defending Sam much in the way Sam dealt with the ghost in Yellow Fever. Also there was no looming secret on the tail of Bloody Mary. Bloody Mary came out and blamed Sam of forseeing Jessica's death (while Dean was distracted). Therein it was much more of an expose than a seed for suspense. True Dean didn't know but the audience did which is a HUGE difference between the two. This is meant as a teaser to US not the characters.

[feistfan]

I didn't even know there was a thread for this show. Can I just say, this show = two of the hottest guys on TV? Seriously I love them both and want to have both of their babies. At the same time even. Call me an inverted Tom Brady, if you will.

[theReckless]

I understand where you'd say they're similar but I dont' think they're overly similar. Dean's interactions with Bloody Mary was strictly a by-product of defending Sam much in the way Sam dealt with the ghost in Yellow Fever. Also there was no looming secret on the tail of Bloody Mary. Bloody Mary came out and blamed Sam of forseeing Jessica's death (while Dean was distracted). Therein it was much more of an expose than a seed for suspense. True Dean didn't know but the audience did which is a HUGE difference between the two. This is meant as a teaser to US not the characters.

Heh, so I'm gonna try and explain this while I'm just the slightest drunk. Honestly, I left this thread hoping that someone else could make sense of things, but I'll give it a shot.
Basically I think you took the wrong meaning from my original post and what started off as just an observation has turned into a big unnecessary discussion.

There was a 'looming secret on the tail of Bloody Mary'. Not Sam's (which was covered in the episode and I didn't mention him at all) but Dean's.
After 'Bloody Mary' aired, the writers came out and said (in exactly the same way as they've done now) that there was a specific reason that Dean was also affected and we would find out later.
I assumed (and can't remember if this was ever confirmed or not) that this tied into the episode 'Something Wicked' where we find out a secret about Dean's past that led to people being killed. This is also a popular fan-theory.

Anyway, this basically covers the last part of your post. I wasn't trying to make any particular point with my first post - simply saying that the writer's have used this exact tactic before (which they have) and I think you misunderstood.

Really, I wouldn't be surprised it it was all down to messy writing

[falconfan]

Heh, so I'm gonna try and explain this while I'm just the slightest drunk. Honestly, I left this thread hoping that someone else could make sense of things, but I'll give it a shot.
Basically I think you took the wrong meaning from my original post and what started off as just an observation has turned into a big unnecessary discussion.

There was a 'looming secret on the tail of Bloody Mary'. Not Sam's (which was covered in the episode and I didn't mention him at all) but Dean's.
After 'Bloody Mary' aired, the writers came out and said (in exactly the same way as they've done now) that there was a specific reason that Dean was also affected and we would find out later.
I assumed (and can't remember if this was ever confirmed or not) that this tied into the episode 'Something Wicked' where we find out a secret about Dean's past that led to people being killed. This is also a popular fan-theory.

Anyway, this basically covers the last part of your post. I wasn't trying to make any particular point with my first post - simply saying that the writer's have used this exact tactic before (which they have) and I think you misunderstood.

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised it it was all down to messy writing

If the writers said that Dean had a secret about causing someone's death and therefore was able to be affected by Bloody Mary that's news to me. I never read such a thing.

[theReckless]

If the writers said that Dean had a secret about causing someone's death and therefore was able to be affected by Bloody Mary that's news to me. I never read such a thing.

I'll try look up a source in the morning when I'm sober. But I do remember reading it, along with the Striga theory.

Edit:
Actually I was really curious too so looked around tonight (didnt find any direct quotes from when the episode aired though - but thought this was interesting). So I wasn't totally accurate, but I'm starting to think that given the nature of the show it could mean just about anything.
"Dean was bleeding because he felt guilty over something that happened in the past. Originally people thought the answer was in the flashback scenes from Something Wicked, but Eric Kripke confirmed that Dean was hiding a bigger secret than that. Kripke recently reiterated at the LA Con in 2008 that Dean's eyes were bleeding for a reason but did not say why."

[falconfan]

I'll try look up a source in the morning when I'm sober. But I do remember reading it, along with the Striga theory.

Edit:
Actually I was really curious too so looked around tonight (didnt find any direct quotes from when the episode aired though - but thought this was interesting). So I wasn't totally accurate, but I'm starting to think that given the nature of the show it could mean just about anything.
"Dean was bleeding because he felt guilty over something that happened in the past. Originally people thought the answer was in the flashback scenes from Something Wicked, but Eric Kripke confirmed that Dean was hiding a bigger secret than that. Kripke recently reiterated at the LA Con in 2008 that Dean's eyes were bleeding for a reason but did not say why."

Interesting. It would seem then that this is most likely the same secret and most likely an event which occured pre-pilot (and I'm gonna surmised haunted Dean in hell and possibly plays a part in his perpetual belief that he doesn't deserve to be saved) JUICY

[theReckless]

Yeah after all this I think now they have to be referencing the same thing.

Which I suppose makes it more interesting afterall

[KURT10677]

Just start watching again last week , how did dean get out of hell

[darlingstacy]

Just start watching again last week , how did dean get out of hell

He was pulled out by an angel of God.

[falconfan]

He was pulled out by an angel of God.

Well it may be important to note however that we get the fact he was saved by an "angel" solely by the word of that indivivdual and minor circumstantial evidence. (the angel was invulnerable to Ruby's knife and there's no standard in lore to say any being other than an angel could pull someone out of hell.)

[darlingstacy]

Well it may be important to note however that we get the fact he was saved by an "angel" solely by the word of that indivivdual and minor circumstantial evidence. (the angel was invulnerable to Ruby's knife and there's no standard in lore to say any being other than an angel could pull someone out of hell.)

I was trying to put it in the simplest terms possible for someone that has not seen the entire season so far.

It is all very complicated.

[KURT10677]

Thanks .............

[Fucker29]

arent u forgetting the hot angel? misha collins



i wish they would have brought the original ruby back, i liked her better, stupid budget problems!

Holy shit! YES!!! When I saw the angel's face I was like "DAYUM!! I want an angel like that to drag me out of hell too!!". Fucking hot!

[Fucker29]

Anyways, I just saw the season 4's episodes and...WOW!!! Fucking loved it! Dean being dragged out of hell by an Angel? God intervening? Apocalypse? Lucifer walking free? Battles between demons and angels? HOLY FUCKING SHIT!!! This season is going to be the best so far!!!

[falconfan]

OH MY GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OH MY GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OH MY GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SO FUCKING GOOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OH MY GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Back with more coherent statements when I get over how damn good the episode is and how much deeper and absolutely amazing the series has evolved to be.

[screwnutty]

Hey did anybody stop and think just how powerful this angel must be? He went into hell and snatched Dean from the pits and returned him to life.

That's one badass mother fucking Angel!

[aijalon18]

Tonight's episode was my favorite in a while. I like Dean and Castiel's interaction.

My only disappointment is the lack of Ruby. They brought her back in a different body but then barely used her at all. I understand she is scared of the angels and all but they havent been around until tonight. i guess they used her to introduce Sam's powers but I've grown attached to her and like to have her around once in a while.

[falconfan]

Tonight's episode was my favorite in a while. I like Dean and Castiel's interaction.

My only disappointment is the lack of Ruby. They brought her back in a different body but then barely used her at all. I understand she is scared of the angels and all but they havent been around until tonight. i guess they used her to introduce Sam's powers but I've grown attached to her and like to have her around once in a while.

Ruby is slated to play an important part in an episode two weeks from now "I Know What You Did Last Summer" which focuses on further explaining Dean's time in hell.

Kripke has openly stated that the reason Katie was let go was because of budget concerns. Because the moronic CW network has devoted the bulk of their budget trying to launch 90210 Supernatural is unable to afford another regular therefore it limits the number of episodes Ruby can appear in (as long as she stays in one body).

She will be back. Fear not. I think Sam was just on an anti-demonic kick that his disillusionment with angels has clearly chased away.


As for the episode....

It was just fucking amazing. Everything about it down to the title (which I loved more than I can describe). The girl who played the cheerleader sucked hardcore in the acting department but when I overlooked that it was pretty much flawless.

I like the way the universe has finally begun to expand and we have characters (Castiel, Ruby, and Bobby) that pop up fairly consistently.

I am however still sad that they've not seen fit to bring back Ellen. Jo was a dumb twit and Ash was a sorry attempt at a comedic foil but I loved Ellen (and Missouri Mosely for that matter). To a large extent it wouldn't feel right to have a maternal figure for two men who've always lacked one. It wouldn't flow as smoothly as Bobby does as a paternal figure. But it doesn't mean we can't trot Ellen out now and then.

[aijalon18]

^ Ok I'm glad Ruby will be back. I didnt know about that. I did hear the girl who's eyes got burned out would be back. And agreed on the cheerleader. She was terrible. The only young female I've liked on the show is Katie Cassidy.

And I did hear about CW putting all their stock in 90210 to "save" the network. They seem to put a lot into Gossip Girl as well. I see more ads for that show than for any other television show period. I personally cant believe One Tree Hill is still on.

[neoachilles]

Last night's episode kicked ass. I love, love, love how the angels of heaven are being portrayed. Though they may be the "good" guys, some of them are no better than the enemy demons. So far we have Castiel, a zealous soldier of the Lord convinced of the righteousness of his cause--though he is starting to see things in shades of gray, rather than just in black & white. And this new angel, Uriel--what a dick! His contempt for the world borders on blasphemy (as pointed out by Castiel).

I just Googled Uriel, and I found out he is listed as one of the seven Archangels who stand before God, along with Michael, Gabriel, and Raphael. He is the angel of thunder and terror, and is completely devoted to the impersonal fulfilment of Divine Will. He commands the angels assigned to guard the Watchers until their Judgment, and is the angel placed in the Garden of Eden, with his flaming sword, to prevent any from entering.

[falconfan]

Last night's episode kicked ass. I love, love, love how the angels of heaven are being portrayed. Though they may be the "good" guys, some of them are no better than the enemy demons. So far we have Castiel, a zealous soldier of the Lord convinced of the righteousness of his cause--though he is starting to see things in shades of gray, rather than just in black & white. And this new angel, Uriel--what a dick! His contempt for the world borders on blasphemy (as pointed out by Castiel).

I just Googled Uriel, and I found out he is listed as one of the seven Archangels who stand before God, along with Michael, Gabriel, and Raphael. He is the angel of thunder and terror, and is completely devoted to the impersonal fulfilment of Divine Will. He commands the angels assigned to guard the Watchers until their Judgment, and is the angel placed in the Garden of Eden, with his flaming sword, to prevent any from entering.

As far as I know (and I didn't research this) Uriel is the angel who took the place of Lucifer once he descended.

I find the dynamic interesting because it makes me reflect on Ruby. I had thought that Castiel and Ruby would be used as inverses of each other. The episode made me think a little about "Jus in Bello" and Dean's call there.

[falconfan]

^ Ok I'm glad Ruby will be back. I didnt know about that. I did hear the girl who's eyes got burned out would be back. And agreed on the cheerleader. She was terrible. The only young female I've liked on the show is Katie Cassidy.

And I did hear about CW putting all their stock in 90210 to "save" the network. They seem to put a lot into Gossip Girl as well. I see more ads for that show than for any other television show period. I personally cant believe One Tree Hill is still on.

Yeah Dawn Offstrom is dead set on making her network a tween girl network full of carbon copies of the same tired shows.

As for Ruby fear not. She will be around for quite a while and figure prominently in both episodes 9 and 10 and likely several after. Little birdies have told me that her actions in episode 10 will also reveal more about her character and possibly change the way we look at her.

[darlingstacy]

Kinda silly but I like what they've been doing with their fake names this season. Every episode they are using a rock star's name. This week is was "Agent Getty and Agent Lee." Getty Lee is from the band Rush.

Anyway on the serious tip.

Small little hints like Dean standing in front of the mask in the classroom and Sam saying "bring back memories?" are what I love about Supernatural. They are constantly giving little hints to things that are coming up in later episodes.

Also something interesting. Uriel went to see Sam. Castiel went to see Dean. I get that Dean and Castiel already have an established thing, but interesting to me in regards to character connections.

Great episode. Looking forward to what's to come!

[falconfan]

Kinda silly but I like what they've been doing with their fake names this season. Every episode they are using a rock star's name. This week is was "Agent Getty and Agent Lee." Getty Lee is from the band Rush.

Actually if you look back at previous seasons they've been doing that since season one. It was even pointed out by the marine in "Croatoan" that the name gave used was one of the band members from Metallica.

They LOVE being referential. The vast number of their episode titles are the names of rock songs/albums, books, or horror movies. In one (Blood Mary I think when they were tracing where the mirror had been) it's mentioned that an object had been in "Brockway, Ogdonville, and North Haverbrook" which is a (hillarious) reference to the Simpson's episode "Marge vs the Monorail"

[darlingstacy]

I remember that they've been doing that for a while, it just seems like this season they are being more "obvious" about it.

I love shows that do referential lines and throwbacks. One of my favorite moments in Supernatural reference episodes is "What would Buffy do?" as said by one of the Ghost Facers.

[darlingstacy]

Great episode this week. We got both the light goofiness and the dark and heaviness that we all love.

I am wondering how long it is going to be before WE get to see what Dean went through in hell.

[falconfan]

I believe that I heard in episode 10 we're suppose to learn much about Dean's experiences in hell.

It was a decent episode. Nothing amazing.

Also doesn't Jensen look so fucking adorable in this picture

[Fucker29]

I believe that I heard in episode 10 we're suppose to learn much about Dean's experiences in hell.

It was a decent episode. Nothing amazing.

Also doesn't Jensen look so fucking adorable in this picture

Yes he does. However...

Little correction: Jensen ALWAYS looks fucking adorable!

[Fucker29]

Anyways, I FUCKING LOVED that last scene with Castiel and Dean talking in the park. It was such a great scene. I just loved how Castiel opened up to Dean and showed his vulnerability. It made Dean realize he's not the dick he thought he was. Also, I just want to say Castiel is already becoming one of my favorite characters ever in Supernatural, specially after that episode. What an ally to have...a freaking angel that even Lilith is scared to death of. LOVE IT!!! I'm telling you...this season is probably going to be the best one so far!

[Sausy]

An okay episode overall,though an okay one for this show is far better than most others best.Lots of humor and great character drama....felt so sad when Ted Raimi took back the coin and lost his dream love.The kid with the superhero abilities was great with Dean....the oversized,neurotic teddy bear hilarious.But it's the underlying effect his time in hell has had on Dean and Sam's until now futile attempts to get Dean to reach out about them that really put a powerful punch in the show.And like it's been said earlier we will soon learn what horrors Dean did experience in four months of damnation.....the hints thrown out so far have suggested something beyond horrific.

[Sammie13]

Did anyone catch the David Duchovny "X-Files" porn addiction reference Thursday night? It happened so fast. When the little girl on the bicycle dropped the porn magazine that she was taking to the teddy bear, Dean asked Sam, "what is this...some Deep Woods Duchovny?" (or something to that affect). Since I'm sure many "Supernatural" fans were also X-Philes, it was a cool and funny reference.

[Fucker29]

Did anyone catch the David Duchovny "X-Files" porn addiction reference Thursday night? It happened so fast. When the little girl on the bicycle dropped the porn magazine that she was taking to the teddy bear, Dean asked Sam, "what is this...some Deep Woods Duchovny?" (or something to that affect). Since I'm sure many "Supernatural" fans were also X-Philes, it was a cool and funny reference.

Yeah I noticed!! It cracked me up...specially Sam's face in reaction to what he said and then Dean's face. LOL!!

[cityboy-stl]

Did anyone catch the David Duchovny "X-Files" porn addiction reference Thursday night? It happened so fast. When the little girl on the bicycle dropped the porn magazine that she was taking to the teddy bear, Dean asked Sam, "what is this...some Deep Woods Duchovny?" (or something to that affect). Since I'm sure many "Supernatural" fans were also X-Philes, it was a cool and funny reference.

Yeah especially in this episode since X-Files had a similar episode about a small town where wishes come true.

[theReckless]

Overall I really didn't like the story of the episode, but saying that, most of the jokes were pretty good

"A little young for Busty Asian Beauties..."


It felt weird having the overly-serious b-plot about Dean's time in Hell in an episode like this.
I was wondering though, I don't remember the first episode so well. Did Dean actually lose his memory when he was resurrected, and it gradually came back to him? Or could he remember the whole time, right from when he woke up?

[neoachilles]

^^I think Dean suppressed the memories of his time in hell, only to have them resurface during the whole ordeal with the ghost sickness.

[falconfan]

No Dean's had those hell flashes since the first episode this season I believe.

[neoachilles]

Hmm...I don't remember him having any flashbacks that episode--I could be wrong.

[Fucker29]

Misha (a.k.a. Castiel) said this about the next episodes:

You thought the Wall Street meltdown was scary. How about the apocalypse? "Supernatural" angel Castiel -- actor Misha Collins -- tips that "the next few episodes are going to bring the first real confrontation between heaven and hell" on the CW show. There will be "fisticuffs," says he. However, he also admits, "I don't actually know that much about where things are going in the greater arc of the story."

[neoachilles]

Oohhh. I can't wait--I love fisticuffs.

[aijalon18]

I knew it! I knew Sam and Ruby hooked up. it was really hot too. Sam's hookups are few and far btwn but when he has them there is always an intense love scene. It's funny you never actually see Dean in action. I know everyone loves Jensen but I prefer Jared. He's got a body like Hugh Jackman. He's so tall and lean. Perfection.

[falconfan]

I knew it! I knew Sam and Ruby hooked up. it was really hot too. Sam's hookups are few and far btwn but when he has them there is always an intense love scene. It's funny you never actually see Dean in action. I know everyone loves Jensen but I prefer Jared. He's got a body like Hugh Jackman. He's so tall and lean. Perfection.

That scene was really marred for me by new Ruby's horrible acting during her seduction... not that I can really blame her with those lines.

But yeah they show Sam's more in depth I believe because

A) Sam's sex scenes always have much more to do with his personal characterization than with Dean (who despite being the ladies man very rarely actually ever has sex)

B) As much as I LOVE my Jensen... Jared indisputably has the better body despite being marginally less adorable than Jensen.

[neoachilles]

I liked tonight's episode. We're getting back on track. We finally got to see what happened with Sam after Dean's death. The sex scene with him and Ruby--hot, although I will say, I kind of liked the blonde Ruby who saved Sam. I wonder who this Alistair demon is. And, the end--awesome. Hell wants the girl alive, Heaven wants her dead...love it. And Castiel is seriously fuckworthy.

[falconfan]

As far as this episode went it was OK... I really think the Ruby flashbacks seem to drag and eat a lot of time. I think this was probably an episode that turned out to be 1.5 episodes and they stretched it to 2. Because I was so in for the first two acts and the last act was great but in between it was kinda meh.

[neoachilles]

I think it would have been better if they had dealt with Sam's mourning as a separate episode, mixed with Dean's experience in hell. Tonight's episode would have been better if they had simply focused on the demons pursuit of the woman.

[aijalon18]

I agree the brunette Ruby's overall acting is bad. But her sex acting is on point. As much as I love Katie Cassidy as Ruby, I doubt she could have thrown down like that with Jared.

But as far as the story of Sam's struggle, I wish they would have told all this earlier instead of so many filler episodes back to back. Then they should have introduced this storyline with the girl on its own. I wanted to know more about the girl and her powers. While Ruby sucks at acting the red-haired girl is one of my favorite guest actresses. I knew Dean was gonna have something with her when she called him "The Dean." I do kinda like the Operation Double Date thing that seems to be going on in next weeks episode. I like when the boys are part of a team and not just the 2 of them.

[falconfan]

I agree the brunette Ruby's overall acting is bad. But her sex acting is on point. As much as I love Katie Cassidy as Ruby, I doubt she could have thrown down like that with Jared.

But as far as the story of Sam's struggle, I wish they would have told all this earlier instead of so many filler episodes back to back. Then they should have introduced this storyline with the girl on its own. I wanted to know more about the girl and her powers. While Ruby sucks at acting the red-haired girl is one of my favorite guest actresses. I knew Dean was gonna have something with her when she called him "The Dean." I do kinda like the Operation Double Date thing that seems to be going on in next weeks episode. I like when the boys are part of a team and not just the 2 of them.

I like it for an episode. I don't know if I'd like it indefinitely. I personally like filler. I think that's what episodic dramas should be... episodic. I especially like the funny Ben Edlund episodes when they're tossed in there.

I think the reason you can't see Katie Cassidy throwing down like that is because it was so blatantly out of character. The character of Ruby had definite flirtatious undertones when she was introduced in the very beginning but they were quickly dropped and she was drawn as a serious business bitch. Aside from that wooden scene with lesbianic undertones in Malleus Maleficarium they dialed back the sex on Ruby. That whole scene/transition was written very poorly though. For a scene that's suppose to be putting us on Ruby's side it made her seem awfully predatory. It was a clear seduction and didn't seem like she was genuinely connecting with Sam at all.

My personal thought is that this is a companion piece to episode 4 (where Dean goes back in time). It's a story with essentially no Dean to counteract no Sam. It would've been more intelligent in my opinion if they made this episode 5 and gave Ruby and Sam something of substance to do where this could be flash backed a bit but more realistically draw out the reality of their relationship in whatever present situation they were dealing with.

[Fucker29]

Meh...the episode is mediocre. For what I was expecting, it was really disappointing. I was expecting some awesome action between the angels and demons and what do I get? Basically, a bunch of flashbacks... *yawns* ...boring! There were some good scenes but overall it's a meh episode...IMO it's a filler. They could've handled things differently but whatever...I can't believe I'm gonna have to wait 1 fucking week to see the battle between the angels and demons. Holy shit! That's gonna be THE awesomeness!