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  1. #51
    The gay gargoyle G-Lexington's Avatar
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    Re: Karen Carpenter

    She had a very specific voice. Very "clean", very controlled. She wasn't great at conveying much emotion beyond "happy" and "sad" (more "melancholy" in her case), but she was fantastic at getting those two across. They did a good job at picking songs that worked with her voice. "Superstar" is probably my favorite Carpenters tunes.

    Lex

  2. #52
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    Re: Karen Carpenter

    "Lovelines" was released well after her death, and none of ths songs on it charted as singles. I believe "If I Had You" was released as a single, but didn't have much success; also, "If I Had You" was one of the tracks on "Lovelines" that was originally recorded for Karen's solo project, not a true "Carpenters" release. That's why you won't find any tracks from that project on "Gold."

  3. #53

    Re: Karen Carpenter

    "If I Had You" was released many years after her death. If it had been released in her prime, I think it would've been big. It had a very unusual arrangement, and played to Karen's talent with overdubbing her voice.

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    Re: Karen Carpenter

    Quote Originally Posted by scrapple View Post
    "If I Had You" was released many years after her death. If it had been released in her prime, I think it would've been big. It had a very unusual arrangement, and played to Karen's talent with overdubbing her voice.
    The intricacy of the vocal arrangement on "IIHY" absolutely puts me away!

  5. #55
    JUB Addict matt1980111's Avatar
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    Re: Karen Carpenter

    Now that girl has a voice on her. Her style reminds me of Dionne Warwicks'. They both can sing a sad song and have you in tears til tomorrow!

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    Was My Biggest Idol Karen Carpenter Gay Friendly?

    Everyone knows I like Madonna, Cher, Stevie Nicks, Journey, Fleetwood, Mariah, D Summer, Etc. But one person I haven't mentioned much is my TRUE favorite artist.. Karen Carpenter of the Carpenters. I love Richard too but Karen had a personality that just SHINED!

    She is my biggest idol. She was a kind person who was not a bitch nor was she judgmental based on what I've read. She was smart, talented, gorgeous, and just amazing overall.

    But I wanna know if she was homophobic or gay friendly.. or did it never occur to her? I own everything on vinyl and cds... posters.. tour books... autographs.. etc. But if she knew one of her biggest fans was a gay male.. would she care? Would she preach to me that I was going to hell? I need to know. Thanks!

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    Re: Was My Biggest Idol Karen Carpenter Gay Friendly?

    Quote Originally Posted by Starbuck View Post
    Don't flatter yourself.
    omg it was a general statement. You didn't come in this thread to contribute.. you came in here to find a flaw in a post of mine.. and you put me on the spot to look bad to feel better about yourself because you must have low-self esteem issues. I don't run into threads and look for errors to put others down. GROW UP. If you have nothing nice to say or no constructive criticism to give for this topic.. please leave. Be a big boy. If I disagree with a post I say why I feel the way I do and give my statement. I don't go in a thread to put someone down. Why should you

  8. #58
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    Re: Was My Biggest Idol Karen Carpenter Gay Friendly?

    Quote Originally Posted by billysosilly View Post
    Thanks! And at some points Richard was a major cutie.. I never knew that info. I have the movie starring Cynthia Gibb but not the documentary with the Barbie dolls.

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    Re: Was My Biggest Idol Karen Carpenter Gay Friendly?

    Quote Originally Posted by billysosilly View Post
    your welcome glad i could help
    It was only speculation though.. I wanna know if Karen was homophobic or not... it gives me an idea but its not a confirmation

  10. #60
    Pococuranté belamy's Avatar
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    Re: Was My Biggest Idol Karen Carpenter Gay Friendly?

    Karen Carpenter?

    Geeez, Madonna, you are truly, perfectly hopeless.

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    Re: Was My Biggest Idol Karen Carpenter Gay Friendly?

    Quote Originally Posted by belamy View Post
    Karen Carpenter?

    Geeez, Madonna, you are truly, perfectly hopeless.
    another Slam on me. I can idolize who I want to. And she's unlike most divas today who are so fake. Listen to her live recordings.. its so identical to the studio recordings.. its scary. Her voice is natural and gifted

  12. #62
    Pococuranté belamy's Avatar
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    Re: Was My Biggest Idol Karen Carpenter Gay Friendly?

    Quote Originally Posted by Madonna View Post
    another Slam on me. I can idolize who I want to. And she's unlike most divas today who are so fake. Listen to her live recordings.. its so identical to the studio recordings.. its scary. Her voice is natural and gifted
    I can admire... in fact I DO admire Karen's talent, like Julie Andrews' or , but the fact that they were grrreat singers doesn't make the songs they sang any less shitty.

  13. #63
    JUB Addict LiquidSky's Avatar
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    Re: Was My Biggest Idol Karen Carpenter Gay Friendly?

    "Superstar" is one of my all-time favorite songs.



    Sonic Youth did a cool cover:


  14. #64
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    Re: Was My Biggest Idol Karen Carpenter Gay Friendly?

    Quote Originally Posted by belamy View Post
    Karen Carpenter?

    Geeez, Madonna, you are truly, perfectly hopeless.
    Geez, the guy was only asking a question...

    How many of us have wondered similar things about other famous people (especially if they are/were favorite celebrities of ours), but didn't ask publicly?

    The only difference is that the question escaped Madonna's "thought-balloon" (if one were to sketch an artist's rendition) and got posted in a place where somebody might, just might, have the answer.
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  15. #65
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    Re: Was My Biggest Idol Karen Carpenter Gay Friendly?

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrAA6VMIPb0[/ame]

    How terribly odd....



  16. #66
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    Re: Was My Biggest Idol Karen Carpenter Gay Friendly?

    Quote Originally Posted by Starbuck View Post
    Don't flatter yourself.

  17. #67
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    Re: Was My Biggest Idol Karen Carpenter Gay Friendly?

    There's a made-for-TV movie back there someplace, too. What sticks out to me is this scene where one of Karen's therapists (she had been in in-patient tx for anorexia) brought in Karen's mom as part of the treatment, and (as I recall)explained that at the root of Karen's problems is the feeling -- unfounded of course -- that she wasn't really loved by mom and dad. Mom responded that of course that wasn't true, and the therapist continued by asking Mrs. Carpenter to hug Karen.

    TV Carpenter Mom refused to do so. ~"We don't do things like that in our family,"~ was her verbal response, and her body language was stiff, always.

    I think the biggest thing that made me cringe at the scene at the time was the therapist's error. He should never have set up an intervention like that without knowing ahead of time how it would turn out.

    Later (much), I saw the "Superstar" Barbie movie and, wickedly, I thought it was awesome.

    I don't envy Karen her life.
    Now with more "e"!

  18. #68
    Dr Bit! :~D LilBit's Avatar
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    Re: Was My Biggest Idol Karen Carpenter Gay Friendly?

    I hear she ate gay babies for breakfast.
    Recently I heard a 'wise guy' story that I had a party at my home for twenty-five men. It's an interesting story, but I don't know twenty-five men I'd want to invite to a party. ~Joan Crawford

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    Re: Was My Biggest Idol Karen Carpenter Gay Friendly?

    Quote Originally Posted by Drewsuf View Post
    She was a great singer...one of the greatest. And to address belamy, she rarely recorded a "shitty" song. Bacharach/David, Paul Williams, Carole King...they didn't write shitty songs.

    I met Karen in 1978 and only spoke with her briefly, but have followed the Carpenters since 1969, and have many biographies, newsletters, et cetera on Karen and Richard.

    Karen knew that many of her fans were gay men, and there's no evidence to suggest that this fact bothered her in any way. She was a very private person, a very gracious lady, and not a "diva" by any stretch of the imagination.

    Her death was doubly-tragic because she had returned to a healthy weight, and was very optimistic about her full recovery from her anorexia nervosa. However, no one realized how much damage had been done to her heart muscles, which is why she died from a heart attack.

    Both Carpenters tended to vote Republican, but one gets the very clear impression that they were really more libertarian...fiscal conservatives, social liberals.

    Karen certainly wouldn't have said that you (or anyone else) is going to hell. She didn't think that way. She was religious to an extent, but in no way fundamentalist.

    Madonna, rest easy. If she were alive, she'd probably just chuckle at the question and then hug you.

    That'd tell you all you need to know.
    I'm so jealous I wish I coulda met her!!!!! You lucky bastard.. thanks you made me feel better... My username should be her.. not Madonna.. but most people don't like Carpenters.. plus I resemble Madonna more cuz I'm misunderstood and I like to be unique and totally out there....

  20. #70
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    Re: Was My Biggest Idol Karen Carpenter Gay Friendly?

    As a singer, Karen Carpenter was, on balance, about as good as it gets. Her voice, whether live or recorded, was nearly flawless. She had that distinct quality of seeming, at once, intimate and detached. I love the melodies and the lush production values of the "Carpenters" sound. The fact that the lyrics were not all that substantial does not concern me. The artistry of it all is still quite moving. She was so far out ahead of these loud broads today, that they still haven't caught up to her.

  21. #71
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    Re: Was My Biggest Idol Karen Carpenter Gay Friendly?

    Here her orginal tomb in Forest Lawn in Cypress,CA before her brother moved the body......My Grandparents are buried there also

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  22. #72
    Superstar Jayden's Avatar
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    Re: Was My Biggest Idol Karen Carpenter Gay Friendly?

    There was such a sadness to her voice. Even in happy songs she sang.

  23. #73
    Dr Bit! :~D LilBit's Avatar
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    Re: Was My Biggest Idol Karen Carpenter Gay Friendly?

    Sometimes she'd eat gay babies for lunch, too.
    Recently I heard a 'wise guy' story that I had a party at my home for twenty-five men. It's an interesting story, but I don't know twenty-five men I'd want to invite to a party. ~Joan Crawford

  24. #74

    Re: Was My Biggest Idol Karen Carpenter Gay Friendly?

    Jayden hit the nail on the head. Most of the lyrics in the Carpenter's songs tend to evoke sadness; even in the more uptempo songs. And even when it's not explicitly stated, it's felt. When Karen Carpenter sings the first "hanging around " in "Rainy Days and Mondays," the tonal purity is almost overshadowed by the sadness, mixed with a touch of desperation.

    It may be impossible to answer whether she was homophobic or not, but a lot of her home life sounds pretty dysfunctional (cold parents; a domineering/controlling brother). But then, if she had come from a happier environment, I'm not sure if she could, or would, have become the kind of singer she became.

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    Re: Was My Biggest Idol Karen Carpenter Gay Friendly?

    When all is said and done. Its a shame she was taken so soon. I can only imagine how many great cd's she could have made.

  26. #76
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    Re: Was My Biggest Idol Karen Carpenter Gay Friendly?

    Well, in retrospect I think there was a certain calculated, marketed image going on with their record company.

    Keep in mind The Carpenter's came on the scene in the early 70's, in the wake of all the acid-induced rock and free love and all of that stuff from the late 60's.

    Things tend to go in waves. Music follows culture. Acid freak-outs were giving way to Valium-induced 'mellowness' and perhaps a feeling of needing to take a break from the party that had been the last few years.

    The Carpenter's, and more specifically Karen's voice and melancholy retrospection were perfect for this. The lyrics were bittersweet, the production studio-perfect. The tone was, in general, 'the morning after'... filled with regrets and longings...

    Just a thought.



  27. #77
    Filling in for Tits McGee kevbo's Avatar
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    Re: Was My Biggest Idol Karen Carpenter Gay Friendly?

    Quote Originally Posted by Madonna View Post
    Everyone knows I like Madonna, Cher, Stevie Nicks, Journey, Fleetwood, Mariah, D Summer
    This made me smile. You have some of the most famous women artists listed, and then Journey.

    One of these things is not like the others...

    Oh, well. Anyway you want it...

  28. #78
    Pococuranté belamy's Avatar
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    Re: Was My Biggest Idol Karen Carpenter Gay Friendly?

    Quote Originally Posted by Drewsuf View Post
    She was a great singer...one of the greatest. And to address belamy, she rarely recorded a "shitty" song. Bacharach/David, Paul Williams, Carole King...they didn't write shitty songs.


    We come from different universes I guess.

  29. #79
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    Re: Was My Biggest Idol Karen Carpenter Gay Friendly?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jayden View Post
    There was such a sadness to her voice. Even in happy songs she sang.
    That's true, but I always felt that for some songs, you could clearly "hear" her smiling as she sang. That is a quality of her voice that I rarely encounter and therefore appreciate greatly.

  30. #80
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    Re: Was My Biggest Idol Karen Carpenter Gay Friendly?

    I felt sorry for KC, because though she had talent in her voice, she let her brother control her life. When she killed herself, she gave out those warning signs which her brother talked about and at the time he was too drugged out to take real notice of it. I guess it was her bid to escape the confines of her life. In the documentary about her life I saw, it showed her trying to break out into the pop genre, and her fans hated it vehemently. Thus her fans too were her problem, because no one likes changes especially those who buy her records.

    She took the high road, and she died. All very tragic. I just find it kinda morbid.


  31. #81
    Pococuranté belamy's Avatar
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    Re: Was My Biggest Idol Karen Carpenter Gay Friendly?

    Quote Originally Posted by star-warrior View Post
    I felt sorry for KC, because though she had talent in her voice, she let her brother control her life. When she killed herself, she gave out those warning signs which her brother talked about and at the time he was too drugged out to take real notice of it. I guess it was her bid to escape the confines of her life. In the documentary about her life I saw, it showed her trying to break out into the pop genre, and her fans hated it vehemently. Thus her fans too were her problem, because no one likes changes especially those who buy her records.

    She took the high road, and she died. All very tragic. I just find it kinda morbid.
    The wigs thing was already something weird, but in 1966-1974 they were quite common; those mormon dresses however... they always made me think "WTF?".

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    Re: Was My Biggest Idol Karen Carpenter Gay Friendly?

    It goes to show we do not always know the personal life celebrities. Was fan of Karen first time her sing. Got see the Carpetners in concert years ago at the Missouri State Fair.

  33. #83
    Pococuranté belamy's Avatar
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    Re: Was My Biggest Idol Karen Carpenter Gay Friendly?

    Quote Originally Posted by Drewsuf View Post
    I guess so; most find these two songs to be among the best pop songs of the 20th century.
    I know. That's why I posted them.
    They say beauty covered with filth is no less disugsting, for all the beauty... I wish I could hear Karen's rendition, even under the same tunes, but with different lyrics. As I said, what I don't like is not Karen's performances, but the decadent, "shitty" songs she had to sing: and the lyrics may not be ALL the song, but they ARE the song.
    What healthy, discriminating person could stand My favorite things without Julie Andrews singing it?

  34. #84
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    Re: Was My Biggest Idol Karen Carpenter Gay Friendly?

    Quote Originally Posted by LilBit View Post
    I hear she ate gay babies for breakfast.
    Wrong! She suffered from anorexia nervosa, so wouldn't be eating anything.
    JUB's cuddle bunny since 2005

  35. #85
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    Re: Was My Biggest Idol Karen Carpenter Gay Friendly?

    i just luv the fact madonna became THE personality on JUb... u know its like in tv shows and stuff, there is always the one either u love or u hate.

    I guess thats whats happening

  36. #86
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    Re: Was My Biggest Idol Karen Carpenter Gay Friendly?

    Quote Originally Posted by belamy View Post

    What healthy, discriminating person could stand My favorite things without Julie Andrews singing it?
    So, I'm guessing you have never heard any of the live recordings of John Coltrane and his ensembles doing this number.
    Now with more "e"!

  37. #87

    Re: Was My Biggest Idol Karen Carpenter Gay Friendly?

    Just love the great Karen Carpenter. Although probably best known for the optimistic hits like "We've Only Just Begun", "Top Of The World" and "Close To You", it's the melancholy tracks that always got to me, especially "Superstar" and "Goodbye To Love".

  38. #88
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    Re: Was My Biggest Idol Karen Carpenter Gay Friendly?

    love the carpenters, classic 70's

  39. #89
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    Re: Was My Biggest Idol Karen Carpenter Gay Friendly?

    Quote Originally Posted by Madonna View Post
    I'm so jealous I wish I coulda met her!!!!! You lucky bastard.. thanks you made me feel better... My username should be her.. not Madonna.. but most people don't like Carpenters.. plus I resemble Madonna more cuz I'm misunderstood and I like to be unique and totally out there....


    A true fan you are - you even mentioned them properly!

    NOBODY says Carpenters, everybody says "The Carpenters" - they NEVER used "The" to my knowledge on any of their records.

    I seldom hear Carpenters on the radio, tho' they were QUITE successful for years. "Oldies" radio stations, though, insist on rewriting history by never playing anything that doesn't "rock"...
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    Re: Was My Biggest Idol Karen Carpenter Gay Friendly?

    Quote Originally Posted by scrapple View Post
    Just love the great Karen Carpenter. Although probably best known for the optimistic hits like "We've Only Just Begun", "Top Of The World" and "Close To You", it's the melancholy tracks that always got to me, especially "Superstar" and "Goodbye To Love".
    I love her later classics, Now, Make believe It's your First time, Those good old dreams, sweet sweet smile, Happy, You, Want you back in my life again, Etc.

  41. #91
    Pococuranté belamy's Avatar
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    Re: Was My Biggest Idol Karen Carpenter Gay Friendly?

    Quote Originally Posted by TygreBryte View Post
    So, I'm guessing you have never heard any of the live recordings of John Coltrane and his ensembles doing this number.
    John Coltrane made variations on the theme
    You can as well take any hit of Britney, Lady Gaga or Rihanna and make of it jazzy high art.
    I don't like jazz much myself, but I'd never have the nerve to call it "shit"

  42. #92
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    Re: Was My Biggest Idol Karen Carpenter Gay Friendly?

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2ae2vJ-GA8[/ame]

  43. #93
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    Re: Was My Biggest Idol Karen Carpenter Gay Friendly?

    Quote Originally Posted by belamy View Post
    I can admire... in fact I DO admire Karen's talent, like Julie Andrews' or , but the fact that they were grrreat singers doesn't make the songs they sang any less shitty.
    Julie Andrews wasn't given shitty songs. The songs from My Fair Lady, and Camelot were absolutely excellent, and those in Mary Poppins were adorable if hardly highbrow. I must say, I prefer Mary Martin's recording of The Sound of Music to Julie's, though.

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    Re: Was My Biggest Idol Karen Carpenter Gay Friendly?

    Quote Originally Posted by LoveIsNow View Post
    Julie Andrews wasn't given shitty songs. The songs from My Fair Lady, and Camelot were absolutely excellent
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    Re: Was My Biggest Idol Karen Carpenter Gay Friendly?

    ^ Just because you don't understand American musical theatre doesn't mean it isn't good. The music is simple and memorable, which is a desirable quality, and the lyrics convey character in a direct and very American poetic style. It's not Don Giovanni, but it needn't be, because it's judged by different standards.

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    Pococuranté belamy's Avatar
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    Re: Was My Biggest Idol Karen Carpenter Gay Friendly?

    Quote Originally Posted by LoveIsNow View Post
    ^ Just because you don't understand American musical theatre doesn't mean it isn't good. The music is simple and memorable, which is a desirable quality, and the lyrics convey character in a direct and very American poetic style. It's not Don Giovanni, but it needn't be, because it's judged by different standards.
    I understand it, but I don't believe in it ( I CAN'T identify with it, and consider it preferable -I won't say "better"- over the rest): and I don't like Don Giovanni... I mean the play, not the music: the character is far too great and subtle for any average artist, or even for greater ones, like Mozzy, who made of it a miserable thing, and not just from the usual moral point of view.
    Just like in the case we are discussing, the music is far above the words and the theatrical (and the social prejudices of stupid or snobbish considering other people stupid or snobbish for their musical tastes.
    In any case, I always mock at people lionizing Mozart or Bach: they are not talking about the music... maybe about music (music in relation to the hearers, to society, to history, and to solfège), but not THE music that was actually written.

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    Re: Was My Biggest Idol Karen Carpenter Gay Friendly?

    ^Enh. I agree about putting Wolfgang and Johann on a golden throne. I was going to pick Cavalleria rusticana, anyway, but I figured it might be too popular, and cheaply emotional.

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    Re: Was My Biggest Idol Karen Carpenter Gay Friendly?

    Quote Originally Posted by LoveIsNow View Post
    ^Enh. I agree about putting Wolfgang and Johann on a golden throne. I was going to pick Cavalleria rusticana, anyway, but I figured it might be too popular, and cheaply emotional.
    Putting composers on a golden throne IS a popular and cheaply emotional practice. That's what I said in my post above.

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    the official KAREN CARPENTER thread :)

    Some say she had the voice of an angel... I believe it. I can't go a day without listening to her music. I don't care what anyone says... I believe she was one of the best female vocalists or her time, no... of all time! Her voice was so unique and smooth and silky... so beautiful.

    I'm starting to read a book on her called "Little Girl Blue" by Randy L. Schmidt. According to the reviews, its supposed to be the most accurate and in-depth book on her life, yet. I'm excited to read it!

    I think I also feel for her because I can relate to some of her more... personal problems. She obviously had her share of problems and I'm truly sorry she had to go through that. Rest in peace, Karen. Now, you can sing for all of the angels and God up in heaven.

    Anyone else here a fan?

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    Re: the official KAREN CARPENTER thread :)

    I grew up with the Carpenters and have been a fan since they dominated the music charts in the 1970s. I agree that Karen had one of the most beautiful and distinctive voices. It is so true that she is one of the few vocalists you can tell by just a few bars into a song. I had read the book "Little Girl Blue" earlier this year when I overheard someone talking about it. It is a good read and is the definitive written word on her wonderful yet sad life. I am thankful for all of the recordings the Carpenters have given us but I also think about all of the songs she never got to sing.

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