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View Poll Results: You lean more towards...

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46. You may not vote on this poll
  • Dickens' works

    28 60.87%
  • Austen's works

    18 39.13%
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  1. #51
    Pococuranté belamo's Avatar
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    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    Quote Originally Posted by Keeland View Post
    IMO, Shakespeare, Chaucer and Mickey Spillane have it all over Jane Austen.

    So does the author of Curious George.

    I can understand (not meaning agree, even if I did, or actually partially do) that you prefer Shaks' , Chauck's VERSES to Austen's PROSE... but... Spillane?!! http://www.assantefansite.dk/PHOTO/S...ike_Hammer.jpg

    I mean, even as a joke, and even for me it's rather hard to follow that logic IN OTHERS THAN MYSELF http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile..._7466597_n.jpg
    I would save Shakespeare's Brutus Julius Caesar and let the rest of literature written in English perish.

  2. #52
    Eat the Halloween Candy! chatolandia's Avatar
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    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    Quote Originally Posted by belamo View Post
    You mean you need to compensate somehow.
    No, I mean that I prefer the company of men...


    pouring into the night
    on tainted fingertips

  3. #53
    loki81
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    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    Quote Originally Posted by belamo View Post
    Plotters are useful in a different college degree
    That sort of comment on literary, or musical, or art works in general, that many people make, doesn't make any sense: it's like saying that you find Michelangelo's paintings insufferable because you are an atheist... that's putting yourself in the place of the work you are ignoring, totally missing the whole point of art and joining the ranks of the people who would think that still lifes were base paintings, or abstract art is not art at all, only because they don't fit their values.
    It's not that art has nothing to do with values, it's that art takes those values beyond their simplistic "yes-or-no" judgment.
    Did your particular interest in plots allow you to go beyond Twain's warning at the head of Huck Finn?
    I think it's perfectly acceptable to be able to accept something's contributions to a genre without actually liking it.

    I don't really care for Muddy Waters, but that doesn't mar his contributions to music that I do like.

  4. #54
    Pococuranté belamo's Avatar
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    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    Quote Originally Posted by chatolandia View Post
    No, I mean that I prefer the company of men...
    That's what I said: since you would get an all-girl party whenever you approached Austen, you need to compensate with partially or totally macho stuff

  5. #55
    Keeland
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    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    Quote Originally Posted by belamo View Post
    ... but... Spillane?!!
    Ah, the classics.
    — Mr. Spock

  6. #56
    Eat the Halloween Candy! chatolandia's Avatar
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    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    Quote Originally Posted by belamo View Post
    That's what I said: since you would get an all-girl party whenever you approached Austen, you need to compensate with partially or totally macho stuff
    I did not say I didn't like her work, mind you; I just meant who I prefer... and why.

    After all, just because I like something a bit more, does not mean that I would hate the other choice, right?


    pouring into the night
    on tainted fingertips

  7. #57
    Pococuranté belamo's Avatar
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    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    Quote Originally Posted by chatolandia View Post
    I did not say I didn't like her work, mind you; I just meant who I prefer... and why.

    After all, just because I like something a bit more, does not mean that I would hate the other choice, right?
    That would have been a very fine response if what you had actually said had not simply been this:

    Quote Originally Posted by chatolandia View Post
    I think Jane Austen is too girly for me...

  8. #58

    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    Quote Originally Posted by belamo View Post
    …Did your particular interest in plots allow you to go beyond Twain's warning at the head of Huck Finn?
    What is the warning? Does Twain give us the plot outcome?

  9. #59
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    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    I've read more Austin than Dickens, just because I'm just sick of the Christmas Carol being on telly every Xmas.


  10. #60
    nf fbt funw glbhuof gmhp
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    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    both like lot country scribbles people say whack job but story so not upset da nutters

    thankyou

  11. #61

    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    Virginia Woolf, in a 1934 letter to Dadie Rylands—

    My feeling, as a novelist, is that when you make a character speak directly you're in a different state of mind from that in which you describe him indirectly: more 'possessed,' less self-conscious, more random, and rather excited by the sense of his character and your audience.

    I think the great Victorians, Dickens, Trollope, to some extent Hardy all had this sense of an audience and created their characters mainly through dialogue. Then I think the novelist became aware of something that can't be said by the character himself; and also lost the sense of an audience.

    Middlemarch I should say is the transition novel: [some characters done directly by dialogue: others indirectly]. Hence its great interest--the first modern novel.

    At the same time I do feel in the great Victorian characters, Gamp, Micawber, Becky Sharp … an abandonment, richness, surprise, as well as a redundancy, tediousness, and superficiality which makes them different from the post Middlemarch characters.…

  12. #62
    Pococuranté belamo's Avatar
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    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    Quote Originally Posted by pat grimshaw View Post
    Virginia Woolf, in a 1934 letter to Dadie Rylands—

    My feeling, as a novelist, is that when you make a character speak directly you're in a different state of mind from that in which you describe him indirectly: more 'possessed,' less self-conscious, more random, and rather excited by the sense of his character and your audience.

    I think the great Victorians, Dickens, Trollope, to some extent Hardy all had this sense of an audience and created their characters mainly through dialogue. Then I think the novelist became aware of something that can't be said by the character himself; and also lost the sense of an audience.

    Middlemarch I should say is the transition novel: [some characters done directly by dialogue: others indirectly]. Hence its great interest--the first modern novel.

    At the same time I do feel in the great Victorian characters, Gamp, Micawber, Becky Sharp … an abandonment, richness, surprise, as well as a redundancy, tediousness, and superficiality which makes them different from the post Middlemarch characters.…
    She's speaking there only about Anglo literature, so what
    Then your point (if there's any ) in posting it, is that Dick and Awe are, in at least one respect, essentially the same crap...
    The funny thing about discussing "modernity" is that there always seems to be a handful of centuries of margin whenever they try to trace back its origins.

  13. #63

    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    Quote Originally Posted by belamo View Post
    ...Then your point (if there's any ) in posting it, is that Dick and Awe are, in at least one respect, essentially the same crap...
    I think I'm only reiterating my previous posts. My overriding point is that both of them, and Virginia too, are becomingly increasingly sidelined in our fast world where everything is packaged for our quick consumption;viz http://scruffyjizzmonkey.tumblr.com/archive

  14. #64
    Pococuranté belamo's Avatar
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    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    Quote Originally Posted by pat grimshaw View Post
    I think I'm only reiterating my previous posts. My overriding point is that both of them, and Virginia too, are becomingly increasingly sidelined in our fast world where everything is packaged for our quick consumption;viz http://scruffyjizzmonkey.tumblr.com/archive
    And what on Earth would be wrong with that as long as our appreciation and enjoyment proceeds unhurriedly?

    How much time and how many opportunities would be lost if someone else hadn't spared us a lot of trouble and time-wasting by packaging it all up before?

  15. #65

    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    ^ are you referring to Charles, Virginia, Jane or the Jizz-monkeys?

  16. #66
    Pococuranté belamo's Avatar
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    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    Quote Originally Posted by pat grimshaw View Post
    ^ are you referring to Charles, Virginia, Jane or the Jizz-monkeys?
    Imagine if we HAD to waddle through all the printed bread&butter mediocrity and crappiness starting from 2012 to get to discover and enjoy 1800, 1600, 800 or 400's cream of the wit.
    I have so often wished it were so with male listings too... gayromeo is hardly a beginning.

  17. #67
    Do I dare to eat a peach?
    palbert's Avatar
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    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/18/bo...ok-review.html

    An article for the Austenite of this century.

  18. #68
    Pococuranté belamo's Avatar
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    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    Quote Originally Posted by palbert View Post
    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/18/bo...ok-review.html

    An article for the Austenite of this century.
    That was not about and for Austenites, but Janeites You didn't read me above, at the beginning... did you

  19. #69
    Pococuranté belamo's Avatar
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    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    God I hate Dick.
    No wonder people who ever had the bakcward and perverted remains of judgment to praise so highly his work and the Tyndale-James Bible as grrrrreat achievements of human wit and aesthetic endeavor, are also usually the ones who make such screwed-up judgments concerning morals, politics and what not.
    I don't think I will get through this project of reading his complete works, and I daresay, judging by the general criticism, that I am more scared of undertaking the reading of The Old Curiosity Shop than of the Huge Depression and WWIII brewing to a boiling point right now.

  20. #70

    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    I started listening to the LibraVox recording of "The Mystery of Edwin Drood after watching the movie from youtube, but he just goes on and on and on like my mother after she'd been out on a shopaholic binge.

    There's a good film version of "The Pickwick Papers". Someone uploaded a version with Spanish subtitles on youtube.

  21. #71

    Re: Dickensite or Austenite


  22. #72
    Pococuranté belamo's Avatar
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    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    Man, I'm so infatuated with Austen's work these days... especially with all that bicentennial hype around Dickens going on which, however, doesn't so much vex me as amuse me in a supercilious sort of way.

  23. #73

    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    Caro Belamo, why are you bothering with these long-winded English people when you have Cervantes (and others I've not heard about)

  24. #74
    Pococuranté belamo's Avatar
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    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    Quote Originally Posted by pat grimshaw View Post
    Caro belamo, why are you bothering with these long-winded English people when you have Cervantes (and others I've not heard about)
    Because Cervantes has got better prose than any of them, but no actual FINE, globally well-composed work... even his style is quite faulty outside the Quijote: the Ejemplares are somewhat stiffy, and the Persiles is sometimes bloated and often rather cloying in its sweetness (I mean syntax alone). But I still prefer any of that before that [lesser] Anglo God Dicky, or the average Anglo prose-deliverer.
    You know I have always held Crusoe in high steem, as the most "classically" piece ever written in English, and only the Huck Finn has given men something I longed for and could never find in the Spanish prose heritage or elsewhere in modern literature: a great stylist using simpler syntax and general economy, together with deep poetic feeling, used to build a work of higher general significance. To think that I didn't discover it until my middle thirties... or Byron's Juan until my very late twenties! While I considered Keats of the greatest ever until still a couple of years ago... and Poe! EVER!! even if it was during a brief period when I was 18...

    So the alternative to Anglolit wouldn't be the Spanish one, or French or Chinese or Russian, Catalan or even less German *bluh*, but my dear books of Latin or even ancient Greek classics
    What others exactly have you not heard about?

  25. #75
    Look, listen and rejoice oakpope's Avatar
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    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    Balzac.

    All the rest can perish

  26. #76
    Pococuranté belamo's Avatar
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    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    Quote Originally Posted by oakpope View Post
    Balzac.

    All the rest can perish
    Balzac. Is. Caffeine.
    Rivers. Of pissed caffeine. Un gros roman-fleuve qui est disparu sous terre quand la source a été tarie.
    That's. That.

  27. #77
    Look, listen and rejoice oakpope's Avatar
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    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    Is there a more bad ass gay character than Vautrin in all of the 19th ?

    and Balzac piss is an other gold river

  28. #78
    Pococuranté belamo's Avatar
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    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    Quote Originally Posted by oakpope View Post
    Is there a more bad ass gay character than Vautrin in all of the 19th ?
    https://www.google.com/search?q=mald...w=1024&bih=498

    And you would consider yourself a true Frenchman?

    Quote Originally Posted by oakpope View Post
    and Balzac piss is an other gold river
    http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__...g_elephant.jpg

    How uncommon.

  29. #79
    Look, listen and rejoice oakpope's Avatar
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    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    Quote Originally Posted by belamo View Post
    And you would call yourself French?
    Yes As noted on my passport

    And I much prefer the human Vautrin to the otherworldy Maldoror (yes Lautréamont is a genius also, but one long poem can't compare to the Human Comedy immensity).

  30. #80
    Pococuranté belamo's Avatar
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    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    Quote Originally Posted by oakpope View Post
    Yes As noted on my passport

    And I much prefer the human Vautrin to the otherworldy Maldoror (yes Lautréamont is a genius also, but one long poem can't compare to the Human Comedy immensity).
    Precisely: how can the badassness of a devil apprentice compare to a real one, even if it's a lesser real devil

    As for the Comédie Humaine, it is immense as unfinished can be.
    Some others would say that it doesn't get more "immense" than the DIVINA Commedia... or The Bible

  31. #81
    Look, listen and rejoice oakpope's Avatar
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    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    To better understand human condition, which is preferable, knowing about human comedy, or about divine one ?

    Maldoror is evil because he was born this way, by nature. Vautrin had to do what he did because of society, hence he is more interesting to me.

  32. #82

    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    ^
    you two make me ashamed that I'm spending my time on an interactive site with hoes and bimboes here when I could be investing my time with those greats that you mention

  33. #83
    Look, listen and rejoice oakpope's Avatar
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    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    Oh don't be ashamed
    compared to some here, I am an illiterate

    If you want to begin Balzac, one of his most "easy" novel is "Eugénie Grandet".

    A free english translation here

  34. #84

    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    ^
    Thanks Oakpope. I will attempt it.

  35. #85
    Pococuranté belamo's Avatar
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    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    Quote Originally Posted by oakpope View Post
    Yes As noted on my passport


    7:07-7:34
    It seems I forgot to post it before

  36. #86
    Pococuranté belamo's Avatar
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    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    Quote Originally Posted by oakpope View Post
    To better understand human condition, which is preferable, knowing about human comedy, or about divine one ?

    Maldoror is evil because he was born this way, by nature. Vautrin had to do what he did because of society, hence he is more interesting to me.
    http://s3.hubimg.com/u/214914_f260.jpg

    Yeah, I know, I know: what is more incommensurable, the whole universe or a single atom, the whole landscape of Creation or the variegated play of a single speck of human existence?

  37. #87
    Look, listen and rejoice oakpope's Avatar
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    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    ^
    lovely !

    thanks !

  38. #88
    Pococuranté belamo's Avatar
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    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    Quote Originally Posted by oakpope View Post
    ^
    lovely !

    thanks !
    what

    for what

  39. #89
    Look, listen and rejoice oakpope's Avatar
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    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    the movie

    (was too slow to reply )

  40. #90
    Pococuranté belamo's Avatar
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    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    Quote Originally Posted by oakpope View Post
    the movie

    (was too slow to reply )
    oh

    yes, that movie is a true gem. And Audrey Hepburn was the loveliest pedorra ever to grace the silver screen, or whatever color it is

  41. #91
    Pococuranté belamo's Avatar
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    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    I am enjoying IT so much that I needed to rebump this thread...

  42. #92

    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    Love, love, LOVE Jane Austen! I've read Emma 3 times, and don't even get me started on Pride and Prejudice. As for Dickens--I can take it or leave it.. but Great Expectations? What a snore..

  43. #93
    Keeland
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    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    Quote Originally Posted by belamo View Post
    I am enjoying IT so much that I needed to rebump this thread...
    Pearls before swine, indeed.

    Enjoy this, you ersatz egghead.


  44. #94
    JUB Addict goldenmoth's Avatar
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    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    Quote Originally Posted by GregKII View Post
    Love, love, LOVE Jane Austen! I've read Emma 3 times, and don't even get me started on Pride and Prejudice. As for Dickens--I can take it or leave it.. but Great Expectations? What a snore..

    Yeah actually I tried to read Great Expectations and found it a bit of a slog. Loved Pride and Prejudice

  45. #95
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    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    Quote Originally Posted by Keeland View Post
    Pearls before swine, indeed.
    Indeed... http://d29ci68ykuu27r.cloudfront.net...0/19446861.jpg

  46. #96
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    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    The other day I saw a woman reading Emma with a serious, almost stern expression on her face..: whoever does THAT?! (apart from a dickensite/charleyite, that is) was it because it was a Spanish translation?

  47. #97
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    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    Rebumping.

  48. #98
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    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    Thread caught my eye because I'm going through Dickens again for the second time and while I love him more than Austen I appreciate them both. I think I'll give Austen another spin after I'm done with Dickens. Belamo, you might give John Milton a look for some truly classical English. I'll sometimes pick up _Paradise Lost_ at a random point and start reading it aloud just for the pleasure of the language.

  49. #99
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    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    Quote Originally Posted by OPHELIA_HARDIN View Post
    Thread caught my eye because I'm going through Dickens again for the second time and while I love him more than Austen I appreciate them both. I think I'll give Austen another spin after I'm done with Dickens. belamo, you might give John Milton a look for some truly classical English. I'll sometimes pick up _Paradise Lost_ at a random point and start reading it aloud just for the pleasure of the language.
    I discovered Milton's craft in his PL last year: it was a revelation (how could I ever have been so blind or, more accurately, so stupidly repelled by the incipit... although the quote placed at the beginning of Frankie Goes to Geneva had been singing in my head since they made me read it -in Catalan- in high school) verse after verse, chant after chant, and nothing obscure, as it is supposed to be. I threw Keats to the waste bin (literally... well, I took one thinner volume I had kept and placed it in a shelf of one of the only two decent bookstores in BCN: it was cleaner than when I bought it) and now I cherish an illustrated edition of PL as one of the great literary treasures... even if it is on the B list of it all
    English verse is Shakespeare and Milton... there is nothing else to my knowledge to deserve being even remotely placed along with them... as of yet?

    As for Dickens, like I usually say about all hypes, it is not so much Dickens itself that I hate as Dickens as the apex of anything good. Austen has never been hyped in relation to anything serious like mere literary quality, because enlightened readers just appreciate, enjoy and shut up, while Janeism gives her a bad reputation among the clueless.
    Last edited by belamo; November 7th, 2013 at 12:21 PM.

  50. #100

    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    ^ What do you think of my use of the words pride and prejudice in this thread?

    http://www.justusboys.com/forum/thre...ou-like-comics

    Do you think Austen holds both pride and prejudice up equally as negative qualities?

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