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  • Dickens' works

    29 60.42%
  • Austen's works

    19 39.58%
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  1. #1
    Pococuranté belamo's Avatar
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    Dickensite or Austenite

    Please not the difference of both with Charlesite and Janeite

    No third+ choices here: you're either with us or against us

  2. #2
    Eat the Halloween Candy! chatolandia's Avatar
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    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    I think Jane Austen is too girly for me...


    pouring into the night
    on tainted fingertips

  3. #3
    Pococuranté belamo's Avatar
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    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    Quote Originally Posted by chatolandia View Post
    I think Jane Austen is too girly for me...
    You mean you need to compensate somehow.

  4. #4

    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    Jane Forever!

  5. #5
    Sex God
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    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    Emma all the way!...even if she was somewhat of a meddling busybody.
    Dare to live the life you have dreamed for yourself.
    Go forward and make your dreams come true.
    -Ralph Waldo Emerson

  6. #6
    Cerca Trova braex27's Avatar
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    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    Jane, but only just by a hair.
    For all sad words of tongue and pen,
    The saddest are these, 'It might have been.'


  7. #7

    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    Oh good God, neither. Give me Dostoevsky any day of the week. Buuuut, if I had to choose, it'd be Dickens, if only for the amusing names and absurd confluences of circumstance

  8. #8
    JUB Addict goldenmoth's Avatar
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    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    I regret to say I have foolishly not read any of Dickens' work (I will one day though) so I voted for Austen. She really did write some amazing stories.

  9. #9
    JUB Addict teadrinker's Avatar
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    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    I've read much more Dickens than Austen; on the other hand "Pride and Prejudice" approaches pure artistic perfection in a way no other novel ever has. I love the vigour of Dickens; and I love the understated artistry of Austen. Actually they're both mighty geniuses; why should we have to pick one over the other?

    -T.

    "Thank God for tea! What would the world do without tea? how did it exist? I am glad I was not born before tea." (Sydney Smith)

  10. #10
    stop the bullshit rareboy's Avatar
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    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    I can't choose.

    But Austen opened up the entire genre of the English novel, so I have to say that just based on originality...I am an Austenite because she got there before Dickens and I'm not sure if he or a lot of the other great writers would have been able to do what they did without her.

  11. #11
    Pococuranté belamo's Avatar
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    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    Quote Originally Posted by teadrinker View Post
    I've read much more Dickens than Austen; on the other hand "Pride and Prejudice" approaches pure artistic perfection in a way no other novel ever has.

    -T.
    How so?

    Quote Originally Posted by teadrinker View Post
    I love the vigour of Dickens; and I love the understated artistry of Austen. Actually they're both mighty geniuses; why should we have to pick one over the other?

    -T.
    You don't have to make a choice, I simply made a thread about it: take it or leave it

  12. #12
    ...is no hippie Harke the Boeotarch's Avatar
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    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    Posting this again...



    Also, Dickens doesn't have [ame=http://www.amazon.com/Pride-Prejudice-Zombies-Classic-Ultraviolent/dp/1594743347#reader_1594743347]zombies[/ame], amirite?

  13. #13
    Pococuranté belamo's Avatar
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    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    Quote Originally Posted by Harke the Boeotarch View Post
    Posting this again...


    Even YOU can do much better than that

    Quote Originally Posted by Harke the Boeotarch View Post

    Also, Dickens doesn't have zombies, amirite?
    As usual, urnot


  14. #14
    stop the bullshit rareboy's Avatar
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    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    So I'm assuming that there are only five or six people on JUB who have actually read either?

    Not surprised.

    *audible sniff*

  15. #15

    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    ^
    O! spare me from the pretentiousness!


    Quote Originally Posted by Dolmance View Post
    Oh good God, neither. Give me Dos…
    Give me Muriel Spark, a genius whose prose style is appropriate for our times. Austen needs to be edited by 50% and Dickens severely pruned.

  16. #16
    stop the bullshit rareboy's Avatar
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    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    As I said...not surprised.

  17. #17
    Pococuranté belamo's Avatar
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    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    Quote Originally Posted by pat grimshaw View Post
    ^
    O! spare me from the pretentiousness!




    Give me Muriel Spark, a genius whose prose style is appropriate for our times. Austen needs to be edited by 50% and Dickens severely pruned.
    Memories of 1992-3, first year of English Philology studies ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Far_Cry_From_Kensington


  18. #18

    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    I am inured to the criticism of old people who have the time to wallow in such prolixity

  19. #19
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    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    well lot countrys ink they stick it on film
    say lot about cultures fa eons right twats

    why folk study it when it all ova world taday

    got be real stoooopid cultures keep write ans keep doin same twat

    thankyou

  20. #20

    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    …Austen opened up the entire genre of the English novel…
    But I've been told that it was George Eliot who did that.

    And the person who says it is Virginia Woolf.

  21. #21
    Pococuranté belamo's Avatar
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    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    Quote Originally Posted by pat grimshaw View Post
    But I've been told that it was George Eliot who did that.

    And the person who says it is Virginia Woolf.
    As her last words? http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...rt_Project.jpg

  22. #22
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    Anybody can be the voice for the voiceless peasants. Sticking up for the proletariat is as stale as jean valjean's loaf of pilfered bread. But it takes real insight to reveal the plight of the aristocracy. Austen all the way.

    About the only thing better is Austen + Vampires.

  23. #23

    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    ^
    I don't believe in seeing a person's valuable contribution in sixty years of life via their last their few moments of life.

    Besides, the Nazis had invaded the Channel Islands and were preparing to invade her town in Sussex and her husband was on the extermination list as a prominent activist and a Jew.


  24. #24
    Pococuranté belamo's Avatar
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    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    Quote Originally Posted by pat grimshaw View Post
    ^
    I don't believe in seeing a person's valuable contribution in sixty years of life via their last their few moments of life.

    Besides, the Nazis had invaded the Channel Islands and were preparing to invade her town in Sussex and her husband was on the extermination list as a prominent activist and a Jew.

    Who was talking about any of that? We were talking about Eliot and Woolf's judgment on her, that may have been influenced by general feelings in a distressful moment. That's that

  25. #25

    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    Well Belamo, I was just saying Virginia had a few other reasons to suicide apart from that Canadian Rareboy disagreeing with her viewpoint on Eliot.

    She said back in '32 that Middlemarch is the great 'transition novel'. She says it's 'the first modern novel'.

  26. #26
    stop the bullshit rareboy's Avatar
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    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    Oh Good lord.

    Anyone who doesn't see the influence of Austen on Eliot probably has only ever read one book. And not by any real author.

    The fact that Wolf credits Eliot with being the first modern novel does not in any way diminish the role that Austen's work played in defining the structure of later English writer's work. As well, eliot's work is heavily influenced by Dickens and other writers.

    And Eliot is pretty late to the game. Middlemarch is 1869.

    I think that what Woolf was saying was that Middlemarch is one of the first novels to appeal to, or anticipate 20th century, post Victorian sensibilities.

    But Grimshaw. Please stop trying to derail Belamo's thread just because you are driven to argue with me.

  27. #27

    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    The thread hasn't been derailed. It was running out of steam on is own and needs more energy to revive it

  28. #28

    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    ^
    I'd prefer it be some hot Jane Austen monkey porn.

    (Virginia Woolf had a marmoset)

  29. #29
    JUB Addict Ram's Avatar
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    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    Stephenie Meyer.

  30. #30
    In Loving Memory palbert's Avatar
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    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    William Makepeace Thackery, Henry Esmond.

  31. #31
    Pococuranté belamo's Avatar
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    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    Oh Good lord.

    Anyone who doesn't see the influence of Austen on Eliot probably has only ever read one book. And not by any real author.

    The fact that Wolf credits Eliot with being the first modern novel does not in any way diminish the role that Austen's work played in defining the structure of later English writer's work. As well, eliot's work is heavily influenced by Dickens and other writers.

    And Eliot is pretty late to the game. Middlemarch is 1869.

    I think that what Woolf was saying was that Middlemarch is one of the first novels to appeal to, or anticipate 20th century, post Victorian sensibilities.

    But Grimshaw. Please stop trying to derail Belamo's thread just because you are driven to argue with me.
    You are right about the meaning of Woolf's judgment of Midd... the Western world talks about "first modern" this or that, including novels, taking it from the XVIIth, XVIIIth or XIXth century. "Modernity" ("ModernISMs" are already strains indicative of the plenitude and decadence of Modernity) is tied to the rise of the Western world, from the XVIth century, and particularly with the comming of age of Western European powers in the middle XVIIth, and all that as prelude of the might of the Angloworld after Crimea and D-Day, so everything "modern" is ultimately anything flattering the palate of that sivilisation.

    As for the derailing, I would love one, but there are not that many JUBbers with either or both the skills and the will to care to produce one

    Quote Originally Posted by Jones76 View Post
    I like neither, but reading Austen is far more painful to me than reading Dickens.
    Poor you, an Albino mind

    Quote Originally Posted by loki81 View Post
    I love Charles Dickens.
    I'm so sorry about that.

    Quote Originally Posted by loki81 View Post

    I'd sooner throw myself off my room than read another Jane Austen novel.
    http://pivotalpoints.com.au/WRB/wp-c...wn-195x300.jpg

  32. #32
    Pococuranté belamo's Avatar
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    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    Quote Originally Posted by Keeland View Post
    Oh, come on, it's obvious.

    Alastain Sym plays a better Scrooge than he would have Elizabeth Bennet, who, by the way, doesn't appear on your TV a dozen times each Christmas.
    That way of judging Austen is like judging Finn for dealing with kids playing gangsters and with scammers and their gullible, totally idiotic victims.
    According to the prejudiced way of viewing literary works, it could be said that Emma is a better mystery novel and social critic than Bleak House or whatever Dick ever penned.
    Following Twain's last quote in your post, Austen is better only because she is not responsible for that stupid story and character being thrown on TV every Christmastime... which by the way stopped happening in Spain years ago... then it was substituted by It's a wonderful life , which hasn't quite totally vanished yet.

  33. #33
    Pococuranté belamo's Avatar
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    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    Quote Originally Posted by Keeland View Post
    Watch out for low-flying jets.

    Whoosh!
    That Anglo sensibility to which I was referring value works not so much for what they actually are as for what they are about and, of course, for being composed in English, which is the most flexible, expressive, blablah language around or, at any rate, the only one they actually care about because it's the only one they have, more or less, managed to understand: so that Dickens' prose may be messy, but is still able to place him somewhere on top of Olympus... or Ben Nevis or whatever peak, and Asimov is a great short story writer, while Tolstoy's prose is nothing that impressive, rather pale and childish (I have to check that reference of that most bright and perspicuous Anglo critic tomorrow at the library), and Pushkin... who/WHAT??!!

    Critics... so-called, self-professed "critics"..: "the author/artist makes me", "I don't like...", "I...", "me...", "my experience...", "my research...", "my dick...", "my womb..."...

  34. #34
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    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    I find Dickens' prose completely impenetrable. He wrote amazing stories, but IMO they work better on film than on the printed page.
    The wolf is carnivore incarnate.
    Only immaculate flesh pleases him.
    --The Company of Wolves by Angela Carter

    The Braindump - an infrequently updated blog

  35. #35
    Pococuranté belamo's Avatar
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    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    I wonder if British people often or ever think about how Dickens or Austen sounds in the minds of American or Catalan people whenever they read those authors

  36. #36
    Pococuranté belamo's Avatar
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    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    Quote Originally Posted by Keeland View Post
    I can honestly say that particular thought never crossed my mind as I struggled to read her dreck in high school.
    That's your due for being raised in an Anglo country... and even worse if you can only read in English

  37. #37
    stop the bullshit rareboy's Avatar
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    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    Keeland. I have to assume that you didn't fare well in English class with respect to the works by Austen?

    My absolute favourite English teacher and good (departed) friend held such a loathing for Jane Austen that he ended up almost not getting his Master's because he hated her work so much....and his thesis advisor didn't.

    I had to confess to him almost two decades later that I loved Austen and what she had accomplished, but I never attempted to sway him in his opinion.

    But Keeland. Her work is not dreck. Her wordsmithing in Pride and Prejudice and in Emma is almost sans pareil in the world of novels. Her prose is actually remarkably spare but incredibly incisive. And if you work it down to themes, she captured her world of politics, religion and economics note perfect. And...she set a new standard for writers to come after her. What a magnificent accomplishment.

  38. #38
    Pococuranté belamo's Avatar
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    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    Keeland. I have to assume that you didn't fare well in English class with respect to the works by Austen?

    My absolute favourite English teacher and good (departed) friend held such a loathing for Jane Austen that he ended up almost not getting his Master's because he hated her work so much....and his thesis advisor didn't.

    I had to confess to him almost two decades later that I loved Austen and what she had accomplished, but I never attempted to sway him in his opinion.

    But Keeland. Her work is not dreck. Her wordsmithing in Pride and Prejudice and in Emma is almost sans pareil in the world of novels. Her prose is actually remarkably spare but incredibly incisive. And if you work it down to themes, she captured her world of politics, religion and economics note perfect. And...she set a new standard for writers to come after her. What a magnificent accomplishment.
    Click image for larger version. 

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  39. #39
    Pococuranté belamo's Avatar
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    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    Quote Originally Posted by loki81 View Post
    weird. I got a degree in English Lit from a pretty good college, where I even took multiple women's lit courses, and through all of it, was never made to read a Jane Austen novel.

    I read her in my own time to see what the fuss was about, but found the plots to be pretty insufferable.
    Plotters are useful in a different college degree
    That sort of comment on literary, or musical, or art works in general, that many people make, doesn't make any sense: it's like saying that you find Michelangelo's paintings insufferable because you are an atheist... that's putting yourself in the place of the work you are ignoring, totally missing the whole point of art and joining the ranks of the people who would think that still lifes were base paintings, or abstract art is not art at all, only because they don't fit their values.
    It's not that art has nothing to do with values, it's that art takes those values beyond their simplistic "yes-or-no" judgment.
    Did your particular interest in plots allow you to go beyond Twain's warning at the head of Huck Finn?

  40. #40
    Pococuranté belamo's Avatar
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    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    The funniest part is when people who can't see beyond themselves would feel outraged when you point their petty narrow-mindedness that they take to be a totally reasonable and decent, sensible "opinion".
    They would say that Mozart is bleh because it's "ancient", or simply because it's a trite trademark, and too many jerks have "spoilt his work for me".
    This is not about agreeing that this or that artist HAS a definite, objective value: it's about recognizing what those artists DO offer in their compositions, and only after that, if you want, rejecting on the grounds of your own elaborate aesthetical frame of judgment, or simply reject it arbitrarily in the name of your own guts and whims as if that had or had to have any sense beyond your own guts.

    I care so much about all that because, just like art is not about some superficial aspect related to it, like plot, age or aesthetic fashion, this is not about just art shit, but about what goes in the minds of people when facing the world, artistic, political, moral or whatever, and how are able to deal with its complexities instead of fumbling through it with their mental hoofs.

  41. #41
    Pococuranté belamo's Avatar
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    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    Quote Originally Posted by Keeland View Post
    IMO, Shakespeare, Chaucer and Mickey Spillane have it all over Jane Austen.

    So does the author of Curious George.

    I can understand (not meaning agree, even if I did, or actually partially do) that you prefer Shaks' , Chauck's VERSES to Austen's PROSE... but... Spillane?!! http://www.assantefansite.dk/PHOTO/S...ike_Hammer.jpg

    I mean, even as a joke, and even for me it's rather hard to follow that logic IN OTHERS THAN MYSELF http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile..._7466597_n.jpg
    I would save Shakespeare's Brutus Julius Caesar and let the rest of literature written in English perish.

  42. #42
    Eat the Halloween Candy! chatolandia's Avatar
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    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    Quote Originally Posted by belamo View Post
    You mean you need to compensate somehow.
    No, I mean that I prefer the company of men...


    pouring into the night
    on tainted fingertips

  43. #43
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    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    Quote Originally Posted by chatolandia View Post
    No, I mean that I prefer the company of men...
    That's what I said: since you would get an all-girl party whenever you approached Austen, you need to compensate with partially or totally macho stuff

  44. #44
    Eat the Halloween Candy! chatolandia's Avatar
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    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    Quote Originally Posted by belamo View Post
    That's what I said: since you would get an all-girl party whenever you approached Austen, you need to compensate with partially or totally macho stuff
    I did not say I didn't like her work, mind you; I just meant who I prefer... and why.

    After all, just because I like something a bit more, does not mean that I would hate the other choice, right?


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  45. #45
    Pococuranté belamo's Avatar
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    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    Quote Originally Posted by chatolandia View Post
    I did not say I didn't like her work, mind you; I just meant who I prefer... and why.

    After all, just because I like something a bit more, does not mean that I would hate the other choice, right?
    That would have been a very fine response if what you had actually said had not simply been this:

    Quote Originally Posted by chatolandia View Post
    I think Jane Austen is too girly for me...

  46. #46

    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    Quote Originally Posted by belamo View Post
    …Did your particular interest in plots allow you to go beyond Twain's warning at the head of Huck Finn?
    What is the warning? Does Twain give us the plot outcome?

  47. #47
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    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    I've read more Austin than Dickens, just because I'm just sick of the Christmas Carol being on telly every Xmas.


  48. #48
    nf fbt funw glbhuof gmhp SLOPPYSECONDS's Avatar
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    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    both like lot country scribbles people say whack job but story so not upset da nutters

    thankyou

  49. #49

    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    Virginia Woolf, in a 1934 letter to Dadie Rylands—

    My feeling, as a novelist, is that when you make a character speak directly you're in a different state of mind from that in which you describe him indirectly: more 'possessed,' less self-conscious, more random, and rather excited by the sense of his character and your audience.

    I think the great Victorians, Dickens, Trollope, to some extent Hardy all had this sense of an audience and created their characters mainly through dialogue. Then I think the novelist became aware of something that can't be said by the character himself; and also lost the sense of an audience.

    Middlemarch I should say is the transition novel: [some characters done directly by dialogue: others indirectly]. Hence its great interest--the first modern novel.

    At the same time I do feel in the great Victorian characters, Gamp, Micawber, Becky Sharp … an abandonment, richness, surprise, as well as a redundancy, tediousness, and superficiality which makes them different from the post Middlemarch characters.…

  50. #50
    Pococuranté belamo's Avatar
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    Re: Dickensite or Austenite

    Quote Originally Posted by pat grimshaw View Post
    Virginia Woolf, in a 1934 letter to Dadie Rylands—

    My feeling, as a novelist, is that when you make a character speak directly you're in a different state of mind from that in which you describe him indirectly: more 'possessed,' less self-conscious, more random, and rather excited by the sense of his character and your audience.

    I think the great Victorians, Dickens, Trollope, to some extent Hardy all had this sense of an audience and created their characters mainly through dialogue. Then I think the novelist became aware of something that can't be said by the character himself; and also lost the sense of an audience.

    Middlemarch I should say is the transition novel: [some characters done directly by dialogue: others indirectly]. Hence its great interest--the first modern novel.

    At the same time I do feel in the great Victorian characters, Gamp, Micawber, Becky Sharp … an abandonment, richness, surprise, as well as a redundancy, tediousness, and superficiality which makes them different from the post Middlemarch characters.…
    She's speaking there only about Anglo literature, so what
    Then your point (if there's any ) in posting it, is that Dick and Awe are, in at least one respect, essentially the same crap...
    The funny thing about discussing "modernity" is that there always seems to be a handful of centuries of margin whenever they try to trace back its origins.

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