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Thread: Bradley Manning - video report

      
   
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    Bradley Manning - video report

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/vide...aks-iraq-video

    This video is well worth viewing from start, to finish. If only to appreciate how hard pressed the United States Army was/is to employ computer geeks.

    Apart from Manning's highly troubled personality being the central feature of this video clip, The Army's communication network security lapses are mind boggling.

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    Re: Bradley Manning - video report

    What is mind-boggling is that it is taking so long to repeal DADT. If not for that idiotic bigotry, Bradley Manning would not have done what he (probably) did.

    If you want peace, work for justice.

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    Re: Bradley Manning - video report

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/vide...aks-iraq-video

    This video is well worth viewing from start, to finish. If only to appreciate how hard pressed the United States Army was/is to employ computer geeks.

    Apart from Manning's highly troubled personality being the central feature of this video clip, The Army's communication network security lapses are mind boggling.
    It is truly amazing what sometimes passes for judgment in the Military. Certain specialties are definitely recruited thru many warning signs. It is a sad day that has thankfully passed. All the services are downsizing which means number of applicants shoots up and so do the standards.

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Rexx View Post
    What is mind-boggling is that it is taking so long to repeal DADT. If not for that idiotic bigotry, Bradley Manning would not have done what he (probably) did.

    If you want peace, work for justice.
    DADT being repealed and Bradley Manning have very little to do with one another. Bradley manning is a contemptible piece of shit who doesnt have the moral backbone or character to simply adhere to that which he swore to do. I have no use for cowards and traitors. Manning should be tried, convicted and shot.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


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    Re: Bradley Manning - video report

    ^I believe that to spare The Army considerable embarrassment there is the prospect that Manning may be assessed as mentally incompetent to stand trial.

    In my opinion Manning has done The Army a great service.

    Just imagine the consequences had the Russians, Chinese or even Al Qaeda managed to successfully penetrate The Army's communication network as a result of such inadequate, even painfully poor security.

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    Re: Bradley Manning - video report

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    It is truly amazing what sometimes passes for judgment in the Military. Certain specialties are definitely recruited thru many warning signs. It is a sad day that has thankfully passed. All the services are downsizing which means number of applicants shoots up and so do the standards.



    DADT being repealed and Bradley Manning have very little to do with one another. Bradley manning is a contemptible piece of shit who doesnt have the moral backbone or character to simply adhere to that which he swore to do. I have no use for cowards and traitors. Manning should be tried, convicted and shot.
    Total traitor. And a loser. What exactly has he accomplished?

    Anything short of the death penalty would be a let down to this country.
    "Rarely do we find men who willingly engage in hard solid thinking. There is an almost universal quest for easy answers and half-baked solutions. Nothing pains some people more than having to think.'' - Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

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    Re: Bradley Manning - video report

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    ^I believe that to spare The Army considerable embarrassment there is the prospect that Manning may be assessed as mentally incompetent to stand trial.

    In my opinion Manning has done The Army a great service.

    Just imagine the consequences had the Russians, Chinese or even Al Qaeda managed to successfully penetrate The Army's communication network as a result of such inadequate, even painfully poor security.
    Often based on the requirements versus the available funds we refuse to act on anything that would cost money until it bleeds. This has played out in untold lives being lost. However it is the nature of a socialist system. I remember a few years before 9/11 we removed all of the armed guards from damn near every military installation to save money.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lostlover View Post
    Total traitor. And a loser. What exactly has he accomplished?

    Anything short of the death penalty would be a let down to this country.
    We do actually agree on a few things ya know.
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    Re: Bradley Manning - video report

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    Often based on the requirements versus the available funds we refuse to act on anything that would cost money until it bleeds. This has played out in untold lives being lost. However it is the nature of a socialist system. I remember a few years before 9/11 we removed all of the armed guards from damn near every military installation to save money.




    We do actually agree on a few things ya know.
    Armed guards at the Twin Towers would not have prevented 9/11.

    There were armed guards at the entrances to The Pentagon. The Pentagon was targeted, and damaged.

    The issue of security of The Army's communication network is not one of money, rather of a complete failure to appreciate the ease with which an enemy could penetrate the communication network.

    I should not have to remind you of the pending extradition case of Gary McKinnon who penetrated the DOD computer network searching for data on UFO sightings. (1)

    Gary McKinnon is reported to have said, and I quote:

    In an interview televised on the BBC's Click programme,[42] McKinnon claimed that he was able to get into the military's networks simply by using a Perl script that searched for blank passwords; in other words his report suggests that there were computers on these networks with the default passwords active.

    (1)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_McKinnon

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    Re: Bradley Manning - video report

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    Armed guards at the Twin Towers would not have prevented 9/11.

    There were armed guards at the entrances to The Pentagon. The Pentagon was targeted, and damaged.

    The issue of security of The Army's communication network is not one of money, rather of a complete failure to appreciate the ease with which an enemy could penetrate the communication network.

    I should not have to remind you of the pending extradition case of Gary McKinnon who penetrated the DOD computer network searching for data on UFO sightings. (1)

    Gary McKinnon is reported to have said, and I quote:

    In an interview televised on the BBC's

    Click programme,[42] McKinnon claimed that he was able to get into the military's networks simply by using a Perl script that searched for blank passwords; in other words his report suggests that there were computers on these networks with the default passwords active.


    (1)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_McKinnon
    Oh no doubt about the armed guards not preventing either event and not the argument I was making. Simply an example of how things are accomplished in this government. Blood and money are the bottom lines and blood not so much. Network security is infantile and no large corporation does a damn thing about actually securing information until it is financially prohibitive to pay for the protection. Look at all the PII spillages over the last few years. It is more a of a PR thing than a real threat. With our government; until it is a lesson learned thru blood nothing is done to correct it. Usually it is a vast amount of blood too.Otherwise the loss is considered negligible. Look up the death stats used to justify when to pay for traffic lights.

    You would probably be amazed at the many innocuous things that are classified. I imagine you would be equally amazed that there are many commercially provided systems and technologies that the pentagon would like to secure but the congress wont pay. Everything from mini submersibles to worldwide computer systems of all types and varieties.

    That is why what Bradley manning did is so despicable. No lock is fullproof. I do not care what the fuck it is designed out of, if a man made it a man can defeat it. Our open system requires people to hold true to their word. It can work no other way. Look at wiki for spies against the US... you can read thru years and years of such activity. Methods may change but the goal is the same.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


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    Re: Bradley Manning - video report

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post

    No lock is fullproof.

    Agreed, but the DOD made it child's play.

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    Re: Bradley Manning - video report

    Quote Originally Posted by Lostlover View Post
    What exactly has he accomplished?
    Exposed your country as revolting human rights violators and hypocrites? And as if just to prove my point you're calling on the execution of someone that's clearly mentaly ill. Good to see where your priorities lie.

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    Re: Bradley Manning - video report

    Quote Originally Posted by EwanSF View Post
    Exposed your country as revolting human rights violators and hypocrites? And as if just to prove my point you're calling on the execution of someone that's clearly mentaly ill. Good to see where your priorities lie.
    And what psychiatrist or psychologist in that video said he was mentally ill? Pray tell.
    "Rarely do we find men who willingly engage in hard solid thinking. There is an almost universal quest for easy answers and half-baked solutions. Nothing pains some people more than having to think.'' - Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

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    Re: Bradley Manning - video report

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post

    McKinnon has Asperger's. He knows the difference between right and wrong. I hope they lock his ugly ass up too.
    "Rarely do we find men who willingly engage in hard solid thinking. There is an almost universal quest for easy answers and half-baked solutions. Nothing pains some people more than having to think.'' - Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

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    Re: Bradley Manning - video report

    Quote Originally Posted by Lostlover View Post
    McKinnon has Asperger's. He knows the difference between right and wrong. I hope they lock his ugly ass up too.
    The issue is not one of right, or wrong.

    Gary McKinnon provided a great service to the United States Department of Defense by exposing the many shortcomings in the security of its computer networks.

    Imagine had the hacker been a Russian, Chinese or terrorist intent on harming the United States. As a British citizen Mr. McKinnon did no harm, merely exposed the many deficiencies in the DODs security for its computer networks.

    I reckon Mr.McKinnon should be rewarded with a cash bonus, and well paid consultancy with the United States Armed Forces to ensure that the security systems of the DOD are maintained at a level to deny hacking to America's enemies.

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    Re: Bradley Manning - video report

    Manning is a traitor. Execute him.

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    Re: Bradley Manning - video report

    Quote Originally Posted by EwanSF View Post
    People who involuntarily lose control of their bladder are due to stress are clearly not in the best frame of mind. As a matter of fact, does any of the behaviour exhibited by Manning suggest that he was mentaly stable? Why am I even asking you, as if you give a fuck. People like you make your country famous for executing the retarded for christ sake. And well done for skipping over the war crimes in your rabid clamour to justify killing a man who did nothing but release embaressing information.
    Why can't you just say that a mental health professional didn't conclude that he's psychologically impaired? We have to take one person's account as fact and then conclude he's unfit for trial? Really?

    Manning knows right from wrong. Why go sneak in and download the content with such care? Why deny it then? I'd assume he was humiliated for being demoted for hitting a woman and retaliated like a child that can't articulate his grievances. Not only is he a queen, but he's a woman beater too. How manly of the gay guy to hit a woman when there are many more men around him.

    What about that British doctor that killed hundreds of his own patients? If a mental health professional called him insane, you'd advocate for his release?



    McKinnon has aspergers and clinical depression, making him unfit for trial. Even the tories think so, and are in the process of overturning the ridiculous extradition treaty that your former fuhrer forced on our people. You wont be getting your little show trial you fucking fascist ghoul.
    You're setting a terrible precedent. Any prisoner that has clinical depression can't be held responsible by law enforcement? I wonder too how his depression went into remission when he hacked into our computers.
    Last edited by Lostlover; May 28th, 2011 at 11:02 AM. Reason: additions
    "Rarely do we find men who willingly engage in hard solid thinking. There is an almost universal quest for easy answers and half-baked solutions. Nothing pains some people more than having to think.'' - Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

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    Re: Bradley Manning - video report

    And he skates well over the war crimes and human rights abuses yet again! Standing ovation mate.

    His mental state is irrelevant in that respect. I don't debate that he knew what he was doing, I admire the fact that he did, what does not sit with me is enacting "justice" on the infirm and the fact that you're advocating killing a person over information. He has not killed anyone, nor has persecuted any group of people, nor has he called for the death of anyone, actions that I personaly think puts someone in the firing line. He exposed crimes against humanity commited by your armed forces. As a matter of fact, he did the international community (by which I mean the people, not the UN,) a massive favour.

    And using Harold Shipman as an example holds absolutely no water what-so-ever. Criminaly insane people should be institutionalised. Plus I've got to the stage where I do not believe in prison. It doesn't work as a form of rehabilitation, so all it exists for is to satify the brutish need for social revenge, retribution for imagined offence given against fools like you.

    And once again, mental state is incidental. Gary McKinnon should not be handed over, not because of his mental state or fitness to stand trial, he should not be handed over to a country that I believe to be at its core, as I already mentioned, fascist. Authoritarian state, corporate elite, draconian judiciary, social darwinism as its central philosophy, rampent militarism. Il Duce would have been proud.

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    Re: Bradley Manning - video report

    I'm not ignoring the war crimes. In fact, I was the first person on this entire site to mention wikileaks and even praise it for showing how careless some people in uniform were in Iraq.

    I didn't like Manning handing over classified info to a weirdo Australian who gets some type of weird satisfaction at releasing sensitive American information.

    McKinnon will be rotting at the bottom of a US jail soon. And you can blame British politicians, who you put in office, for having a one-way extradition treaty with us.

    And you're splitting hairs. Both the killer doc and Manning are criminals, as they both violated laws. Manning at the least is guilty of being in possession of stolen property. And depending on how you define enemy, Manning is a traitor and his actions could (hopefully) lead to his execution. I'd love to have front row seats to that as his head snaps back from rope.

    I like too how you can call his actions praiseworthy while also painting him as a mental nutcase. I'd imagine it is hard to be both.
    "Rarely do we find men who willingly engage in hard solid thinking. There is an almost universal quest for easy answers and half-baked solutions. Nothing pains some people more than having to think.'' - Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

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    Re: Bradley Manning - video report

    Quote Originally Posted by EwanSF View Post
    Exposed your country as revolting human rights violators and hypocrites? And as if just to prove my point you're calling on the execution of someone that's clearly mentaly ill. Good to see where your priorities lie.
    Some of what he exposed was good. (good to be exposed, not 'good' good)

    On the other hand, however, the douche was so fucking incompetent and ignorant that could have exposed secret missions like the one that ended with the death of Osama Bin Laden. Putting the lives of your fellow soldiers and innocent Americans at risk because of your own warped sense of importance doesn't make you a hero, it makes you a contemptible piece of shit that deserves to spend the rest of your life rotting in a cell.

    Oh, and you also do a disservice to people that actually ARE mentally ill by claiming that he is. He's not. He's a deluded piece of garbage that isn't worth the clothes he's wearing.

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    Re: Bradley Manning - video report

    Quote Originally Posted by JB3 View Post
    Some of what he exposed was good. (good to be exposed, not 'good' good)

    On the other hand, however, the douche was so fucking incompetent and ignorant that could have exposed secret missions like the one that ended with the death of Osama Bin Laden. Putting the lives of your fellow soldiers and innocent Americans at risk because of your own warped sense of importance doesn't make you a hero, it makes you a contemptible piece of shit that deserves to spend the rest of your life rotting in a cell.

    Oh, and you also do a disservice to people that actually ARE mentally ill by claiming that he is. He's not. He's a deluded piece of garbage that isn't worth the clothes he's wearing.
    Manning exposed the total lack of security in The Army's communication network. Osama Bin Laden did not need assistance from Bradley Manning.

    The Army's communications network security was so inadequate that a private soldier in the middle of the Iraqi desert could access State Department files, download them and then pass them to Wikileaks without suspicion on the part of Manning's supervisors.

    I gather that access to State Department computer files, via The Army's communications networks has now been terminated. Better late, than never.

    It is crystal clear that Manning has been demonstrating disturbed behaviour patterns, that even propelled his superior officers to recommend his discharge from The Army. Those recommendations were over ruled by more senior officers. Clearly The Army needed Manning's computer/analyst skills, and were prepared to overlook his disturbed personality.

    I have my doubts that Manning will be court-martialled if only to spare The Army severe embarrassment in its failure to sufficiently, and adequately protect the security of its communications networks.

    If Manning is sentenced to a long term prison term, then so should several senior Army officers, who were ultimately responsible for the security of The Army's communications networks.

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    Re: Bradley Manning - video report

    Quote Originally Posted by Lostlover View Post

    McKinnon will be rotting at the bottom of a US jail soon. And you can blame British politicians, who you put in office, for having a one-way extradition treaty with us.
    I doubt that McKinnon will ever be extradited to the United States to stand trial.

    The prevailing mood in the British Parliament is to avoid extradition.

    British public opinion is also against extradition.

    The United States authorities might well elect to soft peddle this matter in the interests of maintaining the harmonious, and close relationship of the United States with the United Kingdom.

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    Re: Bradley Manning - video report

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    DADT being repealed and Bradley Manning have very little to do with one another. Bradley manning is a contemptible piece of shit who doesnt have the moral backbone or character to simply adhere to that which he swore to do. I have no use for cowards and traitors. Manning should be tried, convicted and shot.
    DADT and Bradly Manning have everything to do with one another.

    Manning has personal problems for which he could not get help or even confide in a friend because of DADT. Any other recruit could (and almost certainly would) have talked these problems out with his friends or even a counselor. Manning did not have that option. Unable to resolve these issues in a human way, Manning's problems finally found expression in extreme behavior.

    When you treat people like crap, you get crappy behavior in return. The military has paid a price for its inability to accept homosexuals as normal human beings. Let's hope it learns a lesson from this.

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    Re: Bradley Manning - video report

    Quote Originally Posted by Lostlover View Post
    Total traitor. And a loser. What exactly has he accomplished?
    Actually, Manning may be responsible for the "Arab Spring."

    The documents Manning (presumably) released included many diplomatic cables about Tunisia. It was this exposure of the decadence and corruption of the Tunisian autocracy that seems to have triggered the revolution there.

    Maybe we need to rethink keeping some of this stuff secret in the first place.

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    Re: Bradley Manning - video report

    Great video. As for poor Bradley, he deserves a presidential pardon if he ever gets convicted. And as long as he is not convicted, why is he being locked up in solitary confinement and mistreated? Pinochet and Videla would have been proud of the USA today.

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    Re: Bradley Manning - video report

    BULL FUCKING SHIT. He could have talked to a counselor and the counselor is REQUIRED to keep the discussions private regardless of DADT.

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Rexx View Post
    DADT and Bradly Manning have everything to do with one another.

    Manning has personal problems for which he could not get help or even confide in a friend because of DADT. Any other recruit could (and almost certainly would) have talked these problems out with his friends or even a counselor. Manning did not have that option. Unable to resolve these issues in a human way, Manning's problems finally found expression in extreme behavior.

    When you treat people like crap, you get crappy behavior in return. The military has paid a price for its inability to accept homosexuals as normal human beings. Let's hope it learns a lesson from this.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


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    Re: Bradley Manning - video report

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeno Lorea View Post
    Great video. As for poor Bradley, he deserves a presidential pardon if he ever gets convicted. And as long as he is not convicted, why is he being locked up in solitary confinement and mistreated? Pinochet and Videla would have been proud of the USA today.
    He won't get pardoned. He'll hang.

    If they ask me to put the rope around his neck, I'd pay my own way to the facilities just to see him go "night night."
    "Rarely do we find men who willingly engage in hard solid thinking. There is an almost universal quest for easy answers and half-baked solutions. Nothing pains some people more than having to think.'' - Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

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    Re: Bradley Manning - video report

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    Manning exposed the total lack of security in The Army's communication network. Osama Bin Laden did not need assistance from Bradley Manning.

    The Army's communications network security was so inadequate that a private soldier in the middle of the Iraqi desert could access State Department files, download them and then pass them to Wikileaks without suspicion on the part of Manning's supervisors.
    Except he was allowed to access certain files for his assignment. He just decided to use his access to look at things totally unrelated to it.
    I gather that access to State Department computer files, via The Army's communications networks has now been terminated. Better late, than never.

    It is crystal clear that Manning has been demonstrating disturbed behaviour patterns, that even propelled his superior officers to recommend his discharge from The Army. Those recommendations were over ruled by more senior officers. Clearly The Army needed Manning's computer/analyst skills, and were prepared to overlook his disturbed personality.
    He wasn't disturbed.
    I have my doubts that Manning will be court-martialled if only to spare The Army severe embarrassment in its failure to sufficiently, and adequately protect the security of its communications networks.

    If Manning is sentenced to a long term prison term, then so should several senior Army officers, who were ultimately responsible for the security of The Army's communications networks.
    He'll be court-marshalled, and he will spend the rest of his worthless life in prison.

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    Re: Bradley Manning - video report

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Rexx View Post
    Actually, Manning may be responsible for the "Arab Spring."

    The documents Manning (presumably) released included many diplomatic cables about Tunisia. It was this exposure of the decadence and corruption of the Tunisian autocracy that seems to have triggered the revolution there.

    Maybe we need to rethink keeping some of this stuff secret in the first place.
    That's totally laughable. Manning had nothing to do with that.

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    Re: Bradley Manning - video report

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    ^I believe that to spare The Army considerable embarrassment there is the prospect that Manning may be assessed as mentally incompetent to stand trial.

    In my opinion Manning has done The Army a great service.

    Just imagine the consequences had the Russians, Chinese or even Al Qaeda managed to successfully penetrate The Army's communication network as a result of such inadequate, even painfully poor security.
    Yes.

    The computer labs at Oregon State University had better security than this! One thing that would have clued them in was that the supervisor could watch and see when files were being copied onto disc; if a large bloc of information was being moved, his screen flashed a warning.

    And for class-specific files, you had to have a code from your professor, and sign in at the desk to indicate what programs you would be using.

    Beyond that, it wasn't possible to reach into faculty or admin files without triggering an alarm.

    Quote Originally Posted by EwanSF View Post
    Exposed your country as revolting human rights violators and hypocrites? And as if just to prove my point you're calling on the execution of someone that's clearly mentaly ill. Good to see where your priorities lie.
    At root LostLover is a bloodthirsty authoritarian.

    Though it's not clear that Manning is mentally ill. OTOH, from the way they're treating him, he probably is by now. In fact, a psychologist I know said it looks to him that they're trying to get Manning determined to kill himself -- and then one day there will be a "mistake", and he'll have access to the means.

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    I reckon Mr.McKinnon should be rewarded with a cash bonus, and well paid consultancy with the United States Armed Forces to ensure that the security systems of the DOD are maintained at a level to deny hacking to America's enemies.
    That's been done before on lower levels than this. As an example, a hacker at OSU who managed to bypass the security software and get into admin files got a plea deal where he got a seven year prison sentence -- suspended as long as he worked at OSU "and associated institutions" upgrading their security. That was before what I described above! Friends now say their computer system security is tighter than a submarine hatch.

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Rexx View Post
    DADT and Bradly Manning have everything to do with one another.

    Manning has personal problems for which he could not get help or even confide in a friend because of DADT. Any other recruit could (and almost certainly would) have talked these problems out with his friends or even a counselor. Manning did not have that option. Unable to resolve these issues in a human way, Manning's problems finally found expression in extreme behavior.
    This, plus something else: how many gays did they throw out who had skills that were needed? Translators, communications techs, analysts, and almost certainly computer techs have been ditched out of bigotry. Without DADT, Manning would have been discharged the first time and not sucked back into the system.

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Rexx View Post
    When you treat people like crap, you get crappy behavior in return. The military has paid a price for its inability to accept homosexuals as normal human beings. Let's hope it learns a lesson from this.
    For certain. No one did anything to inspire him, to generate loyalty, to make him feel part of a team. In an all-volunteer army that's still necessary; a military without esprit de corps is a military waiting to become corpses.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeno Lorea View Post
    Great video. As for poor Bradley, he deserves a presidential pardon if he ever gets convicted. And as long as he is not convicted, why is he being locked up in solitary confinement and mistreated? Pinochet and Videla would have been proud of the USA today.
    Pardon? No. He did it, for whatever motive, and can't be allowed to forget that.

    But presidents can also commute sentences. Were I president, I'd do that -- and put him to work. Anytime he wanted to quit, he could go back to the brig.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Bradley Manning - video report

    Quote Originally Posted by JB3 View Post
    That's totally laughable. Manning had nothing to do with that.
    Don't be so certain. The State Department as well as Tunisian dissidents admitted that material in what Manning passed to Wikileaks had a bearing on the views of the Tunisian regime and contributed to action.

    But the pot was already brewing; the leaked material may have been just the straw that broke the camel's back -- of itself, hardly worth looking at, but on top of the rest, the beginning of an avalanche. Or it may have been reading one of those pieces that stirred an activist to say "Time to act", and started the ball rolling. It's one of those things we'll never know, most likely.

    But to deny it played any part is ridiculous.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Bradley Manning - video report

    To you bloodthirsty types calling for death or lifelong solitary or other imprisonment:

    in a technical sense, what he did is arguably not treason. He didn't betray the country to any enemy, he didn't turn over information to some country to give it advantage. Those are the things that make for treason, but what Manning did was to release information to anyone listening/reading, including the U.S. It's as if a spy stole information and didn't just hand it to his employer, but mailed a copy to everyone -- including the ones he stole it from. He made it a level playing field: while the world can read what were U.S. secrets (and laugh at us for some of the things kept secret), the U.S. can see exactly what was released. Ultimately, that's why the Wikileaks release was a ripple, not a tsunami: when the enemy knows something and you don't know either what he knows or that he knows, there is betrayal, there is damage, there is major advantage; but when everyone knows, the advantage is gone.
    It's a new age as far as information; we need a new crime definition.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Bradley Manning - video report

    Quote Originally Posted by JB3 View Post
    He wasn't disturbed.
    Um... all the evidence says otherwise.

    Not excusing it by any means, he deserves a long prison sentence. But clearly he did have issues from the statements he made and the evaluating officers opinions.

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    Re: Bradley Manning - video report

    Quote Originally Posted by hotatlboi View Post
    Um... all the evidence says otherwise.

    Not excusing it by any means, he deserves a long prison sentence. But clearly he did have issues from the statements he made and the evaluating officers opinions.
    Everyone has issues. But the issues he had doesn't absolve him or excuse his actions.

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    Re: Bradley Manning - video report

    Quote Originally Posted by JB3 View Post
    Everyone has issues. But the issues he had doesn't absolve him or excuse his actions.
    So basically you were just saying that he was not disturbed enough to warrant the insanity defense or something that would get him off. I do agree with that.

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    Re: Bradley Manning - video report

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    BULL FUCKING SHIT. He could have talked to a counselor and the counselor is REQUIRED to keep the discussions private regardless of DADT.
    Apparently, you didn't read your comic book.

    http://www.ep.tc/problems/38/15.html

    http://www.ep.tc/problems/38/16.html


    Military counselors (even military mental health professionals) reported (report) homosexuality under DADT when military patients seeking help confided (confide) such in them. Attempting to seek therapy for any problem in which a homosexual relationship is revealed could (and did) lead to discharge.

    Bradly Manning could not get help for his problems because the military would not allow it. He could not even confide in a friend without risking discharge. None of the normal, human means by which we all seek comfort for the traumas of life was available to him.

    When you treat people like crap, you get crappy behavior.

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    Re: Bradley Manning - video report

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Rexx View Post
    Apparently, you didn't read your comic book.

    http://www.ep.tc/problems/38/15.html

    http://www.ep.tc/problems/38/16.html


    Military counselors (even military mental health professionals) reported (report) homosexuality under DADT when military patients seeking help confided (confide) such in them. Attempting to seek therapy for any problem in which a homosexual relationship is revealed could (and did) lead to discharge.

    Bradly Manning could not get help for his problems because the military would not allow it. He could not even confide in a friend without risking discharge. None of the normal, human means by which we all seek comfort for the traumas of life was available to him.

    When you treat people like crap, you get crappy behavior.
    About the only definitely confidential avenue would have been if he'd been able to talk with a Catholic (or similar) chaplain whose church recognizes the seal of the confessional, and made it a matter of confession. Priests/pastors who stand in such a tradition have proven sufficiently stubborn that the military doesn't even bother to try to break them.

    Confidentiality with mental health professionals in the military is problematic, because the person seeking help is not the employer, the military is -- so the interaction is subject to rules set by the actual employer.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Bradley Manning - video report

    ^ Some chaplains in the military have made news by refusing to consider marrying gay couples and agitating for the protection of anti-gay hate speech within the military.

    And the Catholic church is officially anti-gay, so I'm not sure Manning would have felt comfortable approaching a priest. Even if he had, the vow of silence only applies to the confessional. I doubt that Manning was seeking to confess to the sin of homosexuality as a means of dealing with his problems.

    In any case, chaplains and lawyers (the only people with whom Manning could have discussed his problems with even a hope of confidence) are not really appropriate substitutes for mental health professionals. With due respect to the chaplains and lawyers of the military, they're not necessarily even appropriate substitutes for friends.

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    Re: Bradley Manning - video report

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Rexx View Post
    ^ Some chaplains in the military have made news by refusing to consider marrying gay couples and agitating for the protection of anti-gay hate speech within the military.

    And the Catholic church is officially anti-gay, so I'm not sure Manning would have felt comfortable approaching a priest. Even if he had, the vow of silence only applies to the confessional. I doubt that Manning was seeking to confess to the sin of homosexuality as a means of dealing with his problems.

    In any case, chaplains and lawyers (the only people with whom Manning could have discussed his problems with even a hope of confidence) are not really appropriate substitutes for mental health professionals. With due respect to the chaplains and lawyers of the military, they're not necessarily even appropriate substitutes for friends.
    He wouldn't have to -- just, say, the sin of anger. That would allow talking about what the anger is about, and it's all under the seal. In fact, a good priest would suggest confession to someone plainly troubled, just to make the entire discussion confidential.

    BTW, Rome does not call homosexuality a sin; if you try to confess that, you'll get corrected.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Bradley Manning - video report

    Bradley Manning plead guilty today.


    Now can we shoot him?
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


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