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View Poll Results: Should Bradley Manning Get the Death Penalty?

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  • Yes

    11 22.45%
  • No

    38 77.55%
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  1. #1
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    Bradley Manning [merged]

    I usually dont favor the death penalty, only in extreme circumstances. But I'd love to see Bradley Manning with a noose around his neck for treason. Assange and this no lip bastard annoy the hell out of me.

    Leaking the documents serves no one's interest.

    Senator Lieberman should be tried for treason too for claiming the war in Iraq is for Israel's security. Kind of weird when he called for the death penalty for treason.
    "Rarely do we find men who willingly engage in hard solid thinking. There is an almost universal quest for easy answers and half-baked solutions. Nothing pains some people more than having to think.'' - Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

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    Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

    From what i haveread i believe this is the guy who leaked sesitive information
    regarding the USA.
    Coming from a eruopean country the United Kingdom removed the death penalty from the statute books in 1965 since that time there have been numerous public
    pardons because later evidence has show that an innoccent person has been sent to the gallows.
    Only last night i was watching a documentary about the number of people executed in the state of Texas alone.
    Have to admit when they then said how many people were on death row awaiting the needle i was shocked. I do not believe in the death penalty. Though at the end of the day i dont live in the states and i have read poll after poll supporting the death penalty there.
    I personaly know that i could not vote for murder by the state am sure that i will get the usual you dont even live here replies ,i am sorry but 2 wrongs dont make a right.

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    Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

    No. He should receive jail time.

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    Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

    Nah life in a federal prison without the possibility of parole plz

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    Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

    I believe that Manning thought he was doing a good thing. The intent here was not malicious - he was not trying to do something to hurt his country. He did not do it for money or personal gain.

    Let''s not forget that this leak may be a result in part of the military's DADT policy (Manning is gay, and he could not seek counseling for problems he was having without revealing to the counselor his sexuality).

    To the extent that we continue to elect officials who insist on guiding us into the twelfth century, we will continue to suffer the consequences of our national stupidity - and our inability to address the problems of the twenty-first century.

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    Know thyself kallipolis's Avatar
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    Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

    I believe that the United States Armed Forces owes Bradley Manning its gratitude for daring to expose the many weaknesses in the American military's communications systems.

    I also expect the British Government to ensure that Gary McKinnon is never extradicted to the United States as a result of his genius in exposing the many shortcomings in the United States Department of Defence computer systems.

    Both gentlemen should be rewarded with a large bonus in excess of dollars 250,000, and offered a consultancy with the United States Armed Forces to further improve the security of the United States Government's computer networks.

    Just imagine if China, Russia, Iran or an Al Qaeda terrorist group were to infiltrate American military communications with the ease demonstrated by Manning and McKinnon.

    Bravo! Mr. Manning, and Mr. McKinnon.

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    Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

    I think the Death Penalty is too harsh at this point. This latest batch seemed like mostly ... not all ... but mostly petty gossip about certain dignitaries in other countries.

    Where as this may certainly put a strain on relationships with some countries, it does serve a purpose in exposing corruption. Although I obviously wouldn't want to be Assange at this point.

    Speaking of which, I do not believe the charges of molestation and rape on his part. I think that is an obvious smear campaign against him on the part of either the US Government, or the Swedes and simply promoted by our Government. These charges were conveniently made immediately after the previous batch of releases and now suddenly are back in the spotlight again after the latest batch.
    Telling it like it is.

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    Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

    How about having a trial first? Then if he's found guilty of treason, death by firing squad?

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    Know thyself kallipolis's Avatar
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    Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

    Quote Originally Posted by jackoroe View Post
    How about having a trial first? Then if he's found guilty of treason, death by firing squad?
    I believe that the United States top brass should be court martialled for failing to provide fool proof security for America's military communications networks.

    We can thank Bradley Manning, and Gary McKinnon for their undoubted service to the pursuit of liberty, and justice by their exposure of the incompetence of those in authority, who failed miserably to protect the United States military communications systems from potential hacking by America's enemies.

    I do not support the death penalty for those generals convicted for their treasonous failure to uphold the fundamentals of military preparedness.

    I would rather that the guilty parties should learn from the error of their ways, by inviting Messrs McKinnon, and Manning to teach them a few lessons on how best to secure the communications systems of the United States, from hacking by enemies intent on subverting American foreign policy.

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    Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

    McKinnon has Asperger's. He should be shown some leniency. The two esponiages, though, are completely different since Manning has no known history of mental health problems (except narcissism). And yes, we'd all be depressed locked up in jail. His closest friends are saying he's suicidal in military jail.

    I'm curious to see if he'd be smiling with a rope around his bake.
    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    I believe that the United States Armed Forces owes Bradley Manning its gratitude for daring to expose the many weaknesses in the American military's communications systems.

    I also expect the British Government to ensure that Gary McKinnon is never extradicted to the United States as a result of his genius in exposing the many shortcomings in the United States Department of Defence computer systems.

    Both gentlemen should be rewarded with a large bonus in excess of dollars 250,000, and offered a consultancy with the United States Armed Forces to further improve the security of the United States Government's computer networks.

    Just imagine if China, Russia, Iran or an Al Qaeda terrorist group were to infiltrate American military communications with the ease demonstrated by Manning and McKinnon.

    Bravo! Mr. Manning, and Mr. McKinnon.
    "Rarely do we find men who willingly engage in hard solid thinking. There is an almost universal quest for easy answers and half-baked solutions. Nothing pains some people more than having to think.'' - Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

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    Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

    Quote Originally Posted by jackoroe View Post
    How about having a trial first? Then if he's found guilty of treason, death by firing squad?
    A trial goes without saying...
    "Rarely do we find men who willingly engage in hard solid thinking. There is an almost universal quest for easy answers and half-baked solutions. Nothing pains some people more than having to think.'' - Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

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    Know thyself kallipolis's Avatar
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    Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lostlover View Post
    McKinnon has Asperger's. He should be shown some leniency. The two esponiages, though, are completely different since Manning has no known history of mental health problems (except narcissism). And yes, we'd all be depressed locked up in jail. His closest friends are saying he's suicidal in military jail.

    I'm curious to see if he'd be smiling with a rope around his bake.
    Both McKinnon, and Manning should be rewarded by the United States Government for exposing potentially damaging security issues, by ensuring that their generous services ensure that loop holes in the communications systems of the United States military are plugged.

    Better that The Pentagon's top brass swallow a bitter pill, and acknowledge that two young people have been able to embarrass the United States military machine.

    What America needs is not judgement, and condemnation of McKinnon, and Manning but an authentic affirmation, that these two fine gentlemen have served the strategic interests of the United States, by offering both of them consultancy roles to improve the security of the United States Government's communications' systems.

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    Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

    Quote Originally Posted by loki81 View Post
    there are proper channels through which Manning could have alerted his superiors to security concerns. and if he had moral objections to Don't Ask/Don't Tell, he should have resigned/quit in protest.

    I agree to the point that things like secret prisons, civilian death cover-ups, and real casualty count numbers are things that citizens have a right to know... the latest release of confidential diplomatic communications goes beyond the pale, however, and as far as I can tell, serves absolutely no purpose but to damage global security and diplomatic ties.
    I am presuming that you have served in the United States military, and would therefore easily appreciate that the chain of command does not readily invite improvements from private soldiers. Change in the military system is designed to operate from the top, down. This is also the reality in the armed forces of most, if not all countries.

    The current gradually timed release of tittle, tattle by the media has done no more than tell us what we already know. No surprises. No earth shattering revelations. Just imagine, Russia rewards its Mafia criminals for services to the state. What else is new?

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    Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

    You know it's something when a Canadian is calling for Assange to be hunted down and killed.

    http://www.torontosun.com/news/canad.../16415546.html
    "Rarely do we find men who willingly engage in hard solid thinking. There is an almost universal quest for easy answers and half-baked solutions. Nothing pains some people more than having to think.'' - Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

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    Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

    Sorry, there have been other spies who's leaks have resulted in much worse results than these have. If they didn't get the DP, there is no reason he should.

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    Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Rexx View Post
    I believe that Manning thought he was doing a good thing. The intent here was not malicious - he was not trying to do something to hurt his country. He did not do it for money or personal gain.
    I might have been sympathetic to this line of reasoning if he had stopped with the video or a few other select items that highlighted abuses that needed to be addressed. But this downloading in bulk of materials from the secure nets is just plain dangerous. It can, will and probably already has done damage to the US military and diplomatic corps that will get people killed. Damage the public will (HOPEFULLY) never know about but will happen none the less.

    What one person calls 'gossip' on this thread is one example, by violating the trust of the diplomatic back channels, untold harm has been done. Wars have been averted through that means of honest open discussion between nations and now it will take years to rebuild the level of trust many foreign leaders assumed they had when talking with the US.

    No this boy deserves anything he gets, he swore an oath of honor to protect that information when he was given access to it. Violating that oath in a specific case of criminal violation of the trust of the American people like the video was one thing but giving out the information wholesale regardless of how 'good' he thought his intentions is nothing but a betrayal of the trust he was given by the American people. Even releasing the video was a betrayal of his honor since there were other means to protest and inform of that injustice without releasing it.

    And perhaps in that is the one thing where the damage done by DADT comes into play. The stigma and pressure placed upon him by the prejudices institutionalized by DADT would be used to undermine and discredit his character in any evidence he submitted through the IG, legal or congressional channels.

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    Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja108 View Post
    Sorry, there have been other spies who's leaks have resulted in much worse results than these have. If they didn't get the DP, there is no reason he should.
    Due to the shear volume of information released, we have no idea (and probably never will) how much damage has been done by these releases. Other spies may have done more specific damage but very few have done such broad sweeping releases and in most cases the information they obtained was not shared with the world at large. People will die from this have no doubt, either directly from the information released or from the side effects the release will have on other actions.

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    Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

    I gotta say, the guy did the world a favour.

    In Canada, and around the world, we now have the unvarnished truth about how Karzai is viewed by our governments and instead of the pussyfooting around, our prime minister has flat out said that he stands by the diplomat's assessment.

    So now we can honestly ask...'what the fuck are we doing wasting the lives of our soldiers and our tax dollars propping up yet one more corrupt whack job and his odious family who are working as much against our interests as for them?'

    It was like a fresh breeze blowing through.

    Sometimes it is good for everyone to know who their enemies as well as their friends are.

    Did these revelations rock the world? hardly....

    Oh. And if people don't think that diplomatic cables and emails aren't being intercepted by the other countries on a regular basis, you are living in a dreamworld.

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    Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    I gotta say, the guy did the world a favour.

    In Canada, and around the world, we now have the unvarnished truth about how Karzai is viewed by our governments and instead of the pussyfooting around, our prime minister has flat out said that he stands by the diplomat's assessment.

    So now we can honestly ask...'what the fuck are we doing wasting the lives of our soldiers and our tax dollars propping up yet one more corrupt whack job and his odious family who are working as much against our interests as for them?'

    It was like a fresh breeze blowing through.

    Sometimes it is good for everyone to know who their enemies as well as their friends are.

    Did these revelations rock the world? hardly....

    Oh. And if people don't think that diplomatic cables and emails aren't being intercepted by the other countries on a regular basis, you are living in a dreamworld.
    So, what are we going to do now that we know Karzai isn't an effective leader? Run from Afghanistan and leave a weak government there? We can't. We have to leave Afghanistan in a position where it can uphold law and order. Right now it can't.

    And I've been reading newspapers that have posted about Karzai's erratic behavior the last two years. Don't be surprised if it comes out that he's a heroin addict.

    His shortcomings are well known. So are his pardons of warlords. He claims he had to do it to survive. I'm not sure but I also am not aware of Afghan cultural habits.
    "Rarely do we find men who willingly engage in hard solid thinking. There is an almost universal quest for easy answers and half-baked solutions. Nothing pains some people more than having to think.'' - Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

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    Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

    So, what are we going to do now that we know Karzai isn't an effective leader? Run from Afghanistan and leave a weak government there? We can't. We have to leave Afghanistan in a position where it can uphold law and order. Right now it can't.
    No. We need to deal with it from the reality of the west not propping up another puppet regime because it is afraid of the what ifs.

    If Karzai is finally not able to function under the pretense of legitimacy, then time to see what goes into his place.

    The Taliban again? Which nations except Pakistan would tolerate that? Not even Iran at this point.

    A soviet style puppet regime? Would that be worse than what is there now? A tribal warlord who would wage civil war? Would that be worse than now?

    The fact is, Afghanistan is a failed state and has been a failed state before the Durand Line or the fall of the Ottoman Empire. It can never be anything but a failed state.

    And no amount of pretending or delaying the inevitable when the Afghani's turn full bore against their occupiers again is going to change this.

    Karzai had the greatest opportunity to create a modern state ever handed to a politician. That he chose to squander it and play the west for fools does not mean he should be supported in this game.

    The best outcome at this point for the West is that the tribes in Afghanistan go to war among themselves.

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    Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    Did these revelations rock the world? hardly....

    Oh. And if people don't think that diplomatic cables and emails aren't being intercepted by the other countries on a regular basis, you are living in a dreamworld.
    The point is not about spying, yes that happens but about violating the private communications between nations which are private for a reason. A great deal of the world's diplomacy cannot be done without these secret discussions in the background.

    There is a world of difference between leaders and diplomats knowing what the other side is saying about them and the whole world knowing. Do you honestly think it makes no difference at all that the Arab Street is handed evidence that the Saudi Princes don't really care that much about Israel and are more concerned about Iran? The fact that those Princes concerns are quite logical and legitimate to outside rational eyes means little to the passions that drive the Arab Street and if those governments were to fall because of it, what would replace them would not be something we in the West would welcome.

  22. #22

    Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stardreamer View Post
    The point is not about spying, yes that happens but about violating the private communications between nations which are private for a reason. A great deal of the world's diplomacy cannot be done without these secret discussions in the background.

    There is a world of difference between leaders and diplomats knowing what the other side is saying about them and the whole world knowing. Do you honestly think it makes no difference at all that the Arab Street is handed evidence that the Saudi Princes don't really care that much about Israel and are more concerned about Iran? The fact that those Princes concerns are quite logical and legitimate to outside rational eyes means little to the passions that drive the Arab Street and if those governments were to fall because of it, what would replace them would not be something we in the West would welcome.
    The 'Arab Street' is the pent up desire for democracy. Of course it would be the wrong kind of democracy for the US.

    As regards the death penalty: it's an act of barbarism.

  23. #23

    Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

    hell to the no. what the fuck ever happened to freedom of speech? freedom of the information act? y'all are going way too far with this shit.

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    Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

    Quote Originally Posted by bynm27 View Post
    hell to the no. what the fuck ever happened to freedom of speech? freedom of the information act? y'all are going way too far with this shit.
    Service members do not enjoy the same freedoms, they are governed by the UCMJ. Send him to the firing squad.

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    Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lostlover View Post
    I usually dont favor the death penalty, only in extreme circumstances. But I'd love to see Bradley Manning with a noose around his neck for treason. Assange and this no lip bastard annoy the hell out of me.

    Leaking the documents serves no one's interest.

    Senator Lieberman should be tried for treason too for claiming the war in Iraq is for Israel's security. Kind of weird when he called for the death penalty for treason.
    not sure about the lieberman part ........ actually i am - [Text: Removed by Moderator]

    as for our gay friend

    i think death penalty for extreme cases is about right - if what is being reported is true and he is tried and found guilty

    and this is as extreme as it gets
    Last edited by opinterph; December 5th, 2010 at 06:51 PM. Reason: removed direct personal insult

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    Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lostlover View Post
    I usually dont favor the death penalty, only in extreme circumstances. But I'd love to see Bradley Manning with a noose around his neck for treason. Assange and this no lip bastard annoy the hell out of me.

    Leaking the documents serves no one's interest.

    Senator Lieberman should be tried for treason too for claiming the war in Iraq is for Israel's security. Kind of weird when he called for the death penalty for treason.
    Really? I do hope you're kidding, or perhaps you do really miss the whole point of the importance of what Manning and Wikileaks as an organisation does. Countries rob its citizens of liberties all the time with the excuse of "if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear."

    What these do is reveal the blatant hypocrisy of any nation. The cables expose crimes committed by America and show clear conspiracy, corruption and manipulation on the side of America acting as if it is the ruler of the world. Manning, and Assange in equal measure are heroes and should be treated as such.

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    Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Boy Smith View Post

    What these do is reveal the blatant hypocrisy of any nation. The cables expose crimes committed by America and show clear conspiracy, corruption and manipulation on the side of America acting as if it is the ruler of the world. Manning, and Assange in equal measure are heroes and should be treated as such.
    The cables show nothing of the sort. What they've exposed are the types of things that have been happening between ALL nations since the beginning of modern history.

    Don't glorify these men. They don't deserve it.

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    Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

    Quote Originally Posted by kallipolis View Post
    Both McKinnon, and Manning should be rewarded by the United States Government for exposing potentially damaging security issues, by ensuring that their generous services ensure that loop holes in the communications systems of the United States military are plugged.

    Better that The Pentagon's top brass swallow a bitter pill, and acknowledge that two young people have been able to embarrass the United States military machine.

    What America needs is not judgement, and condemnation of McKinnon, and Manning but an authentic affirmation, that these two fine gentlemen have served the strategic interests of the United States, by offering both of them consultancy roles to improve the security of the United States Government's communications' systems.
    What kind of drugs do you take over there? Do you even know how all of this occurred, and the reason why it did?

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    Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gen_Lafayette View Post
    Neither Manning, nor the owner of WikiLeaks should get the Death Penalty. They simply took information they were able to get their hands on and released it. Whomever let them get their hands on this stuff, maybe should. but let's hear the details of how that happened first.
    We know how it happened. Manning had clearance to access some of the information, and because of the relaxed security around the data (part of the 9/11 panel's information sharing recommendations) he was able to access stuff that had nothing to do with his job. He KNEW he was doing something wrong when he did it, and his purpose was to do bad things with the information.

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    Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

    I'm grateful that we're learning what we're learning. It is all going to be in the public domain, and for better or for worse, we're going to have to make the best of it. We can't un-know what we know about our governments via this leak, and all we can do in democratic countries is use the information to understand what our governments are doing in our names.

    There has been a lot of brouhaha about whether lives will be paid for this knowledge, perhaps this is so... I suspect lives will also be saved through this knowledge.

    However, whoever was responsible for conveying the information to wikileaks probably broke the law in an unethical way. The person who copied the files showed no discernment. They had access to everything, and they leaked everything. They were not moved by conscience to share a specific act of troublesome wrongdoing, it was just an info-dump. To me that precludes a defence of legitimate whistle-blowing. "Haha gotcha!" is not the essential heartbeat of freedom.

    Jail is fine, as of course the death penalty remains uncivilised.

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    Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    I'm grateful that we're learning what we're learning. It is all going to be in the public domain, and for better or for worse, we're going to have to make the best of it. We can't un-know what we know about our governments via this leak, and all we can do in democratic countries is use the information to understand what our governments are doing in our names.

    There has been a lot of brouhaha about whether lives will be paid for this knowledge, perhaps this is so... I suspect lives will also be saved through this knowledge.

    However, whoever was responsible for conveying the information to wikileaks probably broke the law in an unethical way. The person who copied the files showed no discernment. They had access to everything, and they leaked everything. They were not moved by conscience to share a specific act of troublesome wrongdoing, it was just an info-dump. To me that precludes a defence of legitimate whistle-blowing. "Haha gotcha!" is not the essential heartbeat of freedom.

    Jail is fine, as of course the death penalty remains uncivilised.
    That's the thing. Manning didn't want to blow a whistle. He just wanted to steal as much information as possible, and give it to whoever he could. Whether it was because he hated his country or just wanted to make a name for himself (I'm leaning on the latter), he didn't actually show any care whatsoever for what he stole. (if he had just stolen the data concerning Iraq and afghanistan, and specific data instead of the mass that he did steal, this would have been a whole different story)

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    Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

    Quote Originally Posted by JB3 View Post
    The cables show nothing of the sort. What they've exposed are the types of things that have been happening between ALL nations since the beginning of modern history.

    Don't glorify these men. They don't deserve it.
    What about the release of the video of soldiers in charge of an Apache helicopter executing unarmed, innocent people? The Reuters news agency tried to use the Freedom of Information Act to release the video because two of their employees were amongst those killed, but the request failed and it had to be leaked. Why do you think it wasn't released?

    Not national security because it reveals nothing that is secret, other than damaging video footage showing US soldiers knowingly murdering innocent people. Manning leaked that video, and he's the one thrown in Jail. What happened to those who killed the civilians I wonder?

    That's what make people like Manning heroes. Releasing proof of the murder committed by government arms which claim self-righteousness.

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    Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

    Quote Originally Posted by JB3 View Post
    That's the thing. Manning didn't want to blow a whistle. He just wanted to steal as much information as possible, and give it to whoever he could. Whether it was because he hated his country or just wanted to make a name for himself (I'm leaning on the latter), he didn't actually show any care whatsoever for what he stole. (if he had just stolen the data concerning Iraq and afghanistan, and specific data instead of the mass that he did steal, this would have been a whole different story)
    And you know this how exactly?

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    Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Boy Smith View Post
    And you know this how exactly?
    Look at the data he took.

    Oh and then there's the fact that he admitted that he stole the data to embarrass the US, out of anger against the US Army, and without discerning at all against the petty garbage that was in the first diplomatic release and information worth actually being released.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...eaks-case.html

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    Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Boy Smith View Post
    What about the release of the video of soldiers in charge of an Apache helicopter executing unarmed, innocent people? The Reuters news agency tried to use the Freedom of Information Act to release the video because two of their employees were amongst those killed, but the request failed and it had to be leaked. Why do you think it wasn't released?

    Not national security because it reveals nothing that is secret, other than damaging video footage showing US soldiers knowingly murdering innocent people. Manning leaked that video, and he's the one thrown in Jail. What happened to those who killed the civilians I wonder?

    That's what make people like Manning heroes. Releasing proof of the murder committed by government arms which claim self-righteousness.
    He's no hero. He didn't know that's that what he took. He just grabbed all the data he could and uploaded it. WikiLeaks found that video; manning didn't even know it was there.

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    Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

    They're gonna eat Manning alive at Leavenworth, remember snitches get stitches.

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    Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

    Quote Originally Posted by DeeChai View Post
    They're gonna eat Manning alive at Leavenworth, remember snitches get stitches.
    I would have thought that military prisoners would conduct themselves with more discipline. I would have thought they would be made to by an honourable military.

    I doubt getting stitches is a possible outcome of a court-martial, and in an environment like that, I would expect it to be respected by prisoners who should be worried about paying their own debt to society.

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    Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Boy Smith View Post
    What about the release of the video of soldiers in charge of an Apache helicopter executing unarmed, innocent people? The Reuters news agency tried to use the Freedom of Information Act to release the video because two of their employees were amongst those killed, but the request failed and it had to be leaked. Why do you think it wasn't released?

    Not national security because it reveals nothing that is secret, other than damaging video footage showing US soldiers knowingly murdering innocent people. Manning leaked that video, and he's the one thrown in Jail. What happened to those who killed the civilians I wonder?

    That's what make people like Manning heroes. Releasing proof of the murder committed by government arms which claim self-righteousness.
    As I said before, if the video and things like it was all he released, I might have had some sympathy for this argument but he didn't stop there.

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    Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    I would have thought that military prisoners would conduct themselves with more discipline. I would have thought they would be made to by an honourable military.

    I doubt getting stitches is a possible outcome of a court-martial, and in an environment like that, I would expect it to be respected by prisoners who should be worried about paying their own debt to society.
    Prisoners are still criminals and violent types. There is more discipline and less freedoms in military prisons but don't doubt that violence does happen there just as it does in any prison environment.

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    Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

    I wouldn't have normally said this in the past but I think he does need consequences but NOT death. I thought it was important to expose corruption...it still is but the degree that Wikileaks is heading with all these exposures and planned purposeful destabilization...we are going to wind up eating each other so to speak.

    I am no judge here and so I am not going to call for what kind of sentence he gets but I will say, if I was him, I would not want to die for exposing this horrible truth. I would want to live with the hopes that one day, America won't have to cover up it's atrocities because America wont be doing things that need exposed such as this. I could keep dreaming however...

    I am not in favor for the death penalty. I am in favor of a miracle occurring here in the United States because that's what it's going to take to stop the shit storm we now most certainly face.

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    Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

    It's a different code one lives by when you put on that uniform to serve your country.

    That being said, I believe in the laws and penalties of treason.

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    Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

    didn't hillary just said something like that after all it was good for the us that this leak happened? because they are now just stronger etc .. why would she execute anyone like that?

    and what kind of good christians are you, sitting here, foaming and calling for the murder of a man? it's not even an eye for an eye
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    Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stardreamer View Post
    The point is not about spying, yes that happens but about violating the private communications between nations which are private for a reason. A great deal of the world's diplomacy cannot be done without these secret discussions in the background.

    There is a world of difference between leaders and diplomats knowing what the other side is saying about them and the whole world knowing. Do you honestly think it makes no difference at all that the Arab Street is handed evidence that the Saudi Princes don't really care that much about Israel and are more concerned about Iran? The fact that those Princes concerns are quite logical and legitimate to outside rational eyes means little to the passions that drive the Arab Street and if those governments were to fall because of it, what would replace them would not be something we in the West would welcome.
    And there is the problem.

    Maybe diplomats and nations would be more measured and responsible in their assessments if everyone stopped thinking that diplomacy is some exercise entrusted to the equivalent of 14 year old girls talking about their frenemies behind their backs.

    The old way of Machiavellian diplomacy isn't appropriate in the 21st century.

    And if anyone thinks that the West propping up medieval regimes will stem the tide against fundamentalism, take a look at how the propping up of the Pahlavi dynasty in Iran worked out for the world.

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    Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    I gotta say, the guy did the world a favour.

    In Canada, and around the world, we now have the unvarnished truth about how Karzai is viewed by our governments and instead of the pussyfooting around, our prime minister has flat out said that he stands by the diplomat's assessment.

    So now we can honestly ask...'what the fuck are we doing wasting the lives of our soldiers and our tax dollars propping up yet one more corrupt whack job and his odious family who are working as much against our interests as for them?'

    It was like a fresh breeze blowing through.

    Sometimes it is good for everyone to know who their enemies as well as their friends are.

    Did these revelations rock the world? hardly....


    Agreed!

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    Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

    Life imprisonment.So the little fucker will have to reflect forever whether it was all worth it.....wipe that smug smile off his face.Traitor plain and simple but he's not worth being symbolized as a martyr.He's NO hero,though in any stretch of the imagination.
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    Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    No. We need to deal with it from the reality of the west not propping up another puppet regime because it is afraid of the what ifs.

    If Karzai is finally not able to function under the pretense of legitimacy, then time to see what goes into his place.

    The Taliban again? Which nations except Pakistan would tolerate that? Not even Iran at this point.

    A soviet style puppet regime? Would that be worse than what is there now? A tribal warlord who would wage civil war? Would that be worse than now?

    The fact is, Afghanistan is a failed state and has been a failed state before the Durand Line or the fall of the Ottoman Empire. It can never be anything but a failed state.

    And no amount of pretending or delaying the inevitable when the Afghani's turn full bore against their occupiers again is going to change this.

    Karzai had the greatest opportunity to create a modern state ever handed to a politician. That he chose to squander it and play the west for fools does not mean he should be supported in this game.

    The best outcome at this point for the West is that the tribes in Afghanistan go to war among themselves.
    What I hear is a fait accompli. And I'm not so sure about writing Afghanistan off because of corruption. I also don't like men and women (Afghans and coalition forces) dying in what looks like a mission with no end. I have made threads asking about the progress since Obama's surge. No one seems to know.

    I'm reading Condolezza Rice's sort of autobiography now and she talks about the prevailing attitude before blacks were allowed to vote. And the people thought at the time that blacks weren't ready to vote. It sounds sort of like that when you dismiss supporting the country because of corruption in the government. You can find corruption in every country.

    I'd really like the international community to support Afghanistan in true nation building. I saw an Afghan woman from an NGO speaking on "This Week" yesterday. She was sick and tired of the Afghan way of paying bribes to get things done. She ended her segment with saying that if coalition forces leave, women and children lose. I really wouldn't like that to happen especially considering all the money and lives that have evaporated in this mission.
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    Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

    Quote Originally Posted by JB3 View Post
    He's no hero. He didn't know that's that what he took. He just grabbed all the data he could and uploaded it. WikiLeaks found that video; manning didn't even know it was there.
    He wanted to embarrass a country that has committed some of the most horrendous crimes against humanity over the last century, yet it's still a country that claims to be a moral leader of the world. I'd call this guy a hero. What is it our governments say? If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear? Seems the US has a hell of a lot to hide and is terrified of the power of free speech being exercised by Assange.

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    Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

    Like I said before, there have been others who have done far worse damage to this country... and they didn't get death. If they didn't get executed, neither should Manning.

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    Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

    Quote Originally Posted by JB3 View Post
    He's no hero. He didn't know that's that what he took. He just grabbed all the data he could and uploaded it. WikiLeaks found that video; manning didn't even know it was there.
    No, Manning knew the video was there. It was flagged in the system as super-secret, which is why it attracted Manning's attention in the first place.

    When he saw what it was, he was (apparently) appalled, and then just downloaded a whole bunch of stuff to which he had access. He seems to have assumed there must be a lot more worrisome stuff in the rest of the classified info.

    But Manning had no idea what was in the vast majority of stuff he handed over to Wikileaks. No one human could have waded through all that info in a lifetime.

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    Re: Should Bradley Manning aka the Shit Starter Recieve the Death Penalty?

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    I gotta say, the guy did the world a favour.

    In Canada, and around the world, we now have the unvarnished truth about how Karzai is viewed by our governments and instead of the pussyfooting around, our prime minister has flat out said that he stands by the diplomat's assessment.

    So now we can honestly ask...'what the fuck are we doing wasting the lives of our soldiers and our tax dollars propping up yet one more corrupt whack job and his odious family who are working as much against our interests as for them?'

    It was like a fresh breeze blowing through.

    Sometimes it is good for everyone to know who their enemies as well as their friends are.

    Did these revelations rock the world? hardly....

    Oh. And if people don't think that diplomatic cables and emails aren't being intercepted by the other countries on a regular basis, you are living in a dreamworld.
    I'm 100% with you.

    Give him a reward.
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