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  1. #951
    Evolving...give it a try. Críostóir's Avatar
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    Re: AustinZane.com UPDATE

    Wow, Zane, get better soon.
    ____
    If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocities. -- Voltaire (1694-1778).

  2. #952

    Re: AustinZane.com UPDATE

    I feel better but they are still keeping me overnight again but on a positive note, it looks like a new scene is now up on the site!

    Austin and Bret Catch Up

  3. #953

    Re: AustinZane.com UPDATE

    awww hope you feel better love! Sending prayers and well wishes your way!

  4. #954

    Re: AustinZane.com UPDATE

    Looks like Zane has left AustinZane. He's started a new twitter account, and said so this morning. Not giving any details though, and nothing on the site about it. Obviously without Zane, the site's a goner. Zane has a book out, so if it makes him some money, he's probably done with porn. Zane was the best thing about AustinZane.

  5. #955
    Sex God pmgunnerxx's Avatar
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    Re: AustinZane.com UPDATE

    I may have an update for everyone soon-ish on this ... Zane called me yesterday and for now all I can say is we haven't seen the last of him.

  6. #956
    Sex God yankeesfan's Avatar
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    Re: AustinZane.com UPDATE

    Quote Originally Posted by OwenMeany View Post
    Looks like Zane has left AustinZane. He's started a new twitter account, and said so this morning. Not giving any details though, and nothing on the site about it. Obviously without Zane, the site's a goner. Zane has a book out, so if it makes him some money, he's probably done with porn. Zane was the best thing about AustinZane.
    Zane was my favorite and why I joined the site. Whatever he does I hope all is well.

  7. #957
    JUB Addict Ninja108's Avatar
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    Re: AustinZane.com UPDATE

    It has been confirmed that he left the site. And as some have stated,I don't think the site will survive without him. So enjoy the videos they did leave us and wish both Austin & Zane well with their futures.

  8. #958
    Virgin geekguy's Avatar
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    Re: AustinZane.com UPDATE

    I'm confused. Isn't "Zane" a co-owner? how does he leave? wouldn't it be a close-and-split, like in a divorce?

    I assume some sort of falling-out happened between him and "Austin." pretty major, to end their business.

    Hope "Brett" lands somewhere we get to see him more.

  9. #959
    Virgin pilate's Avatar
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    Re: AustinZane.com UPDATE

    I saw this coming with the infrequent updates. They promised every 5 days between action scenes and if there was only a solo, then every 3 days this year. Instead, the time between updates got LONGER. And I was actually a member of their site, won one of their contests (they posted a blog about it on the website). Communicated to them a few times about not getting it, and several times they didn't respond or if they did blamed it on busyness. I just question one's integrity when you say you do things several times and then don't follow up. As a customer, you expect not to be persistently badgering them when you want answers. And especially since they advertised it on their blog, you'd think they'd have the decency to follow through. Anyway, I quit my membership but gave them another try a few months later. But didn't renew after the three months I signed up for and glad I didn't

  10. #960

    Re: AustinZane.com UPDATE

    Yes, it is true. We have sold the website and parted ways forever. While it's unfortunate the way that things ended between us, I lived wilder, laughed harder, and met some of the greatest people in my life. It's been one hell of a party and I will cherish the memories that were made. Today, I start my cross-country journey back home to Ohio and it's a little bitter sweet leaving the place that I called home for the past 4 years. You can follow me on my new Twitter (ZaneMichaels1) for updates on my post-porn life. My new book comes out October 11th and you can find more info, including excerpts, at ShameAndFortuneBook.com
    Thank you all for your love and support along the way, I appreciate all of you more than I can ever express.

  11. #961

    Re: AustinZane.com UPDATE

    Sadly, as others have pointed out above, it appears that the partnership between Austin and Zane is no more. The future of the web site is unknown. It currently is fully functional. The last video posted was on Sep 18 and nothing has been posted in its blog since 2012-Sep-12 when Zane posted that he was in the hospital "at home." Otherwise, the web site has been silent on any change in the business.

    Zane has provided more information on his new twitter account and fb page. As of today:


    Background image on Zane's fb page (zane.michaels.92) - notice the "former owner"



    Latest tweets on Zane's twitter feed (@ZaneMichaels1) - as of Monday 2012-Sep-24 at 10am PDT (US)

    I hope that Zane continues to keep in touch, at least on twitter. But as Ninja108 posted, I think all we can do is "enjoy the videos they did leave us and wish both Austin & Zane well with their futures."
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails zanesFbBackground2012-Sep24sm.jpg   ZaneTwitter2012-Sep24-1300.jpg  

  12. #962

    Re: AustinZane.com UPDATE

    Actually, Stats, a new scene was put up today. It's Austin and a guy who has been on previously. So, this makes it look like Austin is going to try to carry on, perhaps. We all know Austin & Zane together were the best thing about that site, so I don't imagine that's going to work out very well.

  13. #963

    Re: AustinZane.com UPDATE

    Well this is sad news. But, first and foremost this is a business. This is the frustrating part about supporting porn businesses. Loyal paying customers are treated like crap. Austin posts these "personal" messages on social sites, yet paying customers are left in the cold about the future of the site; fearing that we won't get the content that was promised and that has been paid for. I appreciate that Austine had fun, met a lot great people, but times like this call for professionalism. The people that financially supported him/them/the business are owed more than "the site was sold." Austin and/or Zane have a duty to their customers to be honest about the future of AustineZane.

    The way this went down is really no different than SCM -- which is tragic. Partnerships (and doing business with friends) is very difficult and often don't survive. These guys had a great run, but I bet maturity, personal conflicts, and other stuff took prescedence over business integrity.

    Unfortunately, I'm guessing the next business to go bust is Active Duty. Very similar red flags...
    Last edited by TallOneCA; September 24th, 2012 at 02:21 PM.

  14. #964

    Re: AustinZane.com UPDATE

    Hey guys, just to clear up any confusion, I have retired from filming porn. Austin is still filming and the new owners will carry the site into the next evolution. Yes, you can still enjoy all of our previously filmed Austin and Zane scenes.

  15. #965

    Re: AustinZane.com UPDATE

    Former gay-for-pay porn performer, Zane Michaels and his former partner, Austin Andrews, created an award-winning porn website that took the industry by storm. The chemistry that the two of them created together on screen was unmatched by any other performers and led most to question how “straight” these guys actually were. While many believed they were real-life lovers, their off-camera life was a lot more turbulent. ‘Shame and Fortune’ is an intimate look into the real lives of these two former best friends and how working in the porn industry affected them and details the rise and eventual fall of Austin & Zane.

    The two of them met while working for a different porn company and quickly became close friends. When their boss of that other company began trying to use his power to have his way with the guys, they started a plan that would eventually run him out of business. Without having any knowledge of how to build or operate a website and being two straight guys trying to start a gay porn company, it was an uphill battle from the very beginning. As the industry began to take notice, the duo beat the odds and not only won Best Content Site, but were also voted by the fans to Co-Host the award show!

    The pressures of the industry would take it’s toll on the duo and their friendship started to deteriorate. The two were great at painting a pretty picture in front of the camera but they could only fake it for so long. At summer’s end, the guys sold off their company and went their separate ways. Zane felt that it was important to share his story with the thousands of fans that have supported them along the way. ‘Shame and Fortune’ will take you on their journey from the very beginning right through to the bitter end.

    http://shameandfortunebook.com/about-the-author/

  16. #966
    JUB Addict Ninja108's Avatar
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    Re: AustinZane.com UPDATE

    Indeed..it's one of the reasons I am not willing to give up money for most porn sites anymore. Austin and Zane owened it to their customers to give them a heads but instead simply took the money and left the customers in the dust.
    I'll wish them well but I'm glad I didn't give them money. As for AD,ever since he got busted in NC and moved,it slowly started to go downhill.
    Dynk's response to the Axel case and crappy updates have further made many loyal customers leave. I do think his site will be in done in a year or two.

    And I'll pass on the book. I've had friendships end badly but I will still never put the reasons why out there for the whole world to see.

  17. #967

    Re: AustinZane.com UPDATE

    What was the orginal site Austin and Zane worked for?

  18. #968

    Re: AustinZane.com UPDATE

    Well, Zane certainly incorporated the end of AustinZane.com into his book awfully quickly. Just a week or so ago he was saying the book would be available digitally on October 11. I guess some quick rewriting of the ending?

    As to the last paragraph above, probably a better way of showing appreciation to their fans who supported them would be to not leave them hanging with a subscription that isn't worth anything. Since Austin posted an update today, maybe he's going to try to pull it off a while longer. But I imagine they won't have any subscribers left after another few days.

  19. #969

    Re: AustinZane.com UPDATE

    Quote Originally Posted by TallOneCA View Post
    Well this is sad news. But, first and foremost this is a business. This is the frustrating part about supporting porn businesses. Loyal paying customers are treated like crap. Austin posts these "personal" messages on social sites, yet paying customers are left in the cold about the future of the site; fearing that we won't get the content that was promised and that has been paid for. I appreciate that Austine had fun, met a lot great people, but times like this call for professionalism. The people that financially supported him/them/the business are owed more than "the site was sold." Austin and/or Zane have a duty to their customers to be honest about the future of AustineZane.

    The way this went down is really no different than SCM -- which is tragic. Partnerships (and doing business with friends) is very difficult and often don't survive. These guys had a great run, but I bet maturity, personal conflicts, and other stuff took prescedence over business integrity.

    Unfortunately, I'm guessing the next business to go bust is Active Duty. Very similar red flags...
    ^^ valid points. Given that this happened in the last few days, I'm hopeful that the current az owners will make a statement about their future and not just ignore the issue. At this point they may very well be unsure about where they want to head the business. As various "gay porn press" sites start to report on the change, I'm assuming that there will be pressure to say something. One thing that I've been impressed with is that so far there has not been any finger pointing by the two original principals in the business. (It will be interesting to see what's in Zane's book, due out next month.)

    The other complicating factor, imo, is that Zane always appeared to be the voice of az, in blogs, social networks, etc. Someone in the az biz will have to assume at least part of that role if they want to continue with the same style of web site. az got a lot of support early on from customers, including myself, by being up front (and communicating) about what was going on. Chosing "lockdown" at this point, would be a major loss of customer goodwill.

    As others have said it was the synergy and chemistry between Austin and Zane that was a major strength of the web site. I rewatched the Austin and Brett video from last week with the banter in the beginning. (Austin talks about his recent move - which should have been foretelling.) Although a good start, Zane's absence in the conversation was palatable. Austin comes off as almost babbling and Brett is kind of "what are you talking about". It wasn't bad, but it was kind of like watching Desi Arnaz without Lucy. Austin & Co may choose to take the web site in a different direction, but if they wants to maintain the style of the past, they will need to find someone that can play off Austin like Zane did, at least in front of the camera. Likewise, sexually, Zane liked to kiss, which gave their scenes a sweet bf feel.

    Two years ago, as a startup, a&z had decent name recognition as models, but assumed the rest as their own risk. They created a product that was rather unique. Today, there is a working business, with assets including equipment, reoccuring income, affiliates, customers, and goodwill. The onus is on Austin and Co to decide if there is an act two to az, or whether this will be a slow (or not slow) death march.

    Update#1: "Where in the world is Zane Michaels?": Six hours ago, Zane tweeted taht he was starting his 2000 mile trip home. Assuming that he takes the northern route, he should be pulling into Salt Lake City this evening.

  20. #970

    Re: AustinZane.com UPDATE

    I think there is still a little misunderstanding, let me try again. I have retired from filming but the site is still functioning and open for business. The site is in good hands now and will be fine without me there. I have been writing my book over the past 3 years and I finished it in August. It is an in depth look at the challenges we faced being 2 straight guys creating a gay porn website. It is not a trash piece, it is more of my autobiography and how being in this industry has affected many areas of my life. I have always cared strongly about Austin and he has known all along that I have been writing this book. It is unfortunate that our friendship is not as it was before but know matter what has happened, I will always hold a special place in my heart for Austin and the site. Please do not quit checking out the site because I have retired, I'm sure AZ and GISP will have an amazing run without me. I am a little emotional over my departure because it has been my baby for so long and it was tough to let go of even though I know it is the best thing for me (and the site) right now and I'm excited to see AZ evolve into everything I ever dreamed of and more! Businesses go thru management changes all the time and I have complete faith in the future of the site

  21. #971
    Slippery When Wet
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    Re: AustinZane.com UPDATE

    WAY MORE important to their "porn site" -- is the question, how are these two guys doing in real life?

    It is TRAGIC to see such a GREAT friendship vaporize over what can ULTIMATELY only be TRIVIAL issues...

    ALL the best to both of you...

    $30 give or take to those of us who subscribed is meaningless...

    "Whatever you do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius and power and magic in it..." Goethe

  22. #972
    Sex God pmgunnerxx's Avatar
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    Re: AustinZane.com UPDATE

    Hey guys I just talked to Zane (he is driving through Utah right now) he wanted me to let everyone know AustinZane is still in great hands and will make a strong comeback. He is trying to put a response here but his new JUB account is awaiting moderation. Also to just to clear up any confusion Austin is still filming with AustinZane.

  23. #973
    Sex God pmgunnerxx's Avatar
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    Re: AustinZane.com UPDATE

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja108 View Post
    Indeed..it's one of the reasons I am not willing to give up money for most porn sites anymore. Austin and Zane owened it to their customers to give them a heads but instead simply took the money and left the customers in the dust.
    I'll wish them well but I'm glad I didn't give them money.

    And I'll pass on the book. I've had friendships end badly but I will still never put the reasons why out there for the whole world to see.
    Please understand there is always more to the store than just what appears on the surface. Also the book was in the works since prior to the launch of the site. I am not sure but I don't believe it covers recent events. If I am not mistaken the book would end with or shortly after Grabby weekend which was back in May.

    *edit* this was meant for my post above but I see Zane did get his post to go through here. He wasn't sure it did and asked me to post for him as he literally is driving across country.
    Last edited by pmgunnerxx; September 24th, 2012 at 05:34 PM.

  24. #974

    Re: AustinZane.com UPDATE

    Thanks PM... Sorry guys for the confusion. Over the past 4 years, I grew closer to Austin than my own family. I am blessed to have been able to have him in my life, I freaking love that kid and I wish him the best with all of his future endeavors. I have horrible separation anxiety which stems fr losing a best friend to a drunk driver in 07 so the thought of losing close friends is really tough for me, especially if my actions are responsible for it. Sure thrre were mistskes made along the way but There are no fingers to point and I am sure if we could go back and change a few things we would. You live and you learn. We have placed the site in the hands of people who I am more than confident in that they will be capable of making it bigger and better than ever. For me, I need to go back home to detach and reset myself, my emotions were getting in the way. I don't plan on coming back to porn but weirder things have happened. This drive has been pretty therapeutic so far and I'm feeling a lot better than the first few hours of the drive. Sad, yes- but not the end of anything, just a lot of new beginnings.

  25. #975
    The Boy Next Door LuvFindsAndyHardy's Avatar
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    Re: AustinZane.com UPDATE

    Good God.....first Amy Poehler & Will Arnett and now Austin & Zane? Rough week for celebrity couples I love

  26. #976
    JUB Addict Windsong's Avatar
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    Re: AustinZane.com UPDATE

    Quote Originally Posted by OwenMeany View Post
    Well, Zane certainly incorporated the end of AustinZane.com into his book awfully quickly. Just a week or so ago he was saying the book would be available digitally on October 11. I guess some quick rewriting of the ending?
    A good point.

    I was one of the many people who would watch an AZ scene (particularly the scene in the kitchen, or the "Valentine's Day" scene) and think, no, they can't just be two straight guys performing for the camera. Without Zane, the site loss one of its major drawcards. I doubt it'll be the same. I adored watching scenes with Zane, he was such a great performer, so sweet (and he bottomed like a champ). And the moments between him and Austin were scorching.

    You can't help but wonder what tumultuous events went on, behind-the-scenes, that led to it all falling apart. I know we'll have the book (a tell-all book. Porn's gotten so high-brow these days ). But that'll only be half the story, you know?

    Still, it'll be a shame to see Zane go. But at least we do have their body of work. They occupy a strong place in my "go-to" scenes, I know that much.

  27. #977
    The Fondling Observer Singularity's Avatar
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    Re: AustinZane.com UPDATE

    I'd be curious to know what's so shameful about making gay porn.

  28. #978

    Re: AustinZane.com UPDATE

    So before leaving the industry entirely, Zane did at least one scene outside of az for m e n. c o m. According to MOP it is a "gay dating game" and will be released this Friday. In addition to Zane it also includes Robert Axel, Tommy Defendi, Tony Newport, and Rocco Reed. It looks cute.

    Zane as one of the contestants


    Tony Newport - another x-az model who is doing quite well these days


    the setup (after Tony asks if he can keep all of them, including the cameraman)


    Tony sucks Zane


    Zane fucks Tony

    It will be interesting to see if this is an indication of who bought az. (I'd link to the article on MOP but j.u.b. censors links to web sites that they consider competition.)
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails mnGdgZane01sm.jpg   mnGdgZane02sm.jpg   mnGdgZane03sm.jpg   mnGdgZane04sm.jpg   mnGdgZane05sm.jpg  


  29. #979

    Re: AustinZane.com UPDATE

    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    I'd be curious to know what's so shameful about making gay porn.
    If you read some of the website he created, you will see he was molested as a child.

  30. #980

    Re: AustinZane.com UPDATE

    Quote Originally Posted by LuvFindsAndyHardy View Post
    Good God.....first Amy Poehler & Will Arnett and now Austin & Zane? Rough week for celebrity couples I love
    I'll bet that Crystal Allen got her claws into Austin just like she did with Stephen Haines!

    WWJCD?

  31. #981
    The Fondling Observer Singularity's Avatar
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    Re: AustinZane.com UPDATE

    Quote Originally Posted by 123kid View Post
    If you read some of the website he created, you will see he was molested as a child.
    What does that have to do with making gay porn?

  32. #982
    Slut coldsweat's Avatar
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    Re: AustinZane.com UPDATE

    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    What does that have to do with making gay porn?
    You don't see how molestation at an early age could cause someone to act out sexually as an adult?

    Of course not all porn actors have experienced abuse but it's certainly an industry with a higher tendency for it...
    Last edited by coldsweat; September 26th, 2012 at 11:50 PM.

  33. #983

    Re: AustinZane.com UPDATE

    Who's the guy who's interviewing Tony New port (second pix)?

  34. #984
    The Boy Next Door LuvFindsAndyHardy's Avatar
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    Re: AustinZane.com UPDATE

    Quote Originally Posted by phunkspunk View Post
    i'll bet that crystal allen got her claws into austin just like she did with stephen haines!

    Wwjcd?
    jungle red!!!

  35. #985

    Re: AustinZane.com UPDATE

    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    What does that have to do with making gay porn?
    Never said porn was shameful. Once again, read his site....he has shame from being molested.

  36. #986

    Re: AustinZane.com UPDATE

    Quote Originally Posted by LuvFindsAndyHardy View Post
    jungle red!!!
    (pride) is a luxury a woman in love can't afford!

  37. #987
    Sex God pmgunnerxx's Avatar
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    Re: AustinZane.com UPDATE

    So I know a few folks were speculating on what may or may not be in the book.... There are some excerpts available now at http://shameandfortunebook.com and there is also a really cool trailer on youtube

    I've been looking forward to this book easily over a year so I know it will be a good one... the trailer and the excerpts imo shows you how deep this book will be.

  38. #988

    Re: AustinZane.com UPDATE

    Quote Originally Posted by statsguy View Post
    [CENTER]
    Zane as one of the contestants
    I'm sorry but he looks like the scary banjo playing kid from "Deliverance"!


  39. #989

    Re: AustinZane.com UPDATE

    Yes, that is a horrible picture of me... But, the scene was pretty fun, however, it was the longest shoot I've ever been a part of!

  40. #990

    Re: AustinZane.com UPDATE

    how are you now? how's the long drive home?

  41. #991

    Re: AustinZane.com UPDATE

    Quote Originally Posted by 123kid View Post
    What was the orginal site Austin and Zane worked for?
    StraightCollegeMen.com

  42. #992

    Re: AustinZane.com UPDATE

    It's not a good sign that they appear to have shut off the comments on the site or are heavily moderating them. And unless I am totally missing it, still no mention on the site of his leaving, which I assume is why the comments are essentially turned off.
    Zane was the main reason I joined and stuck with the site from its inception. I like Austin as well, but not enough to maintain an ongoing membership and I used to love Bret, but with every new tattoo he just looks worse and worse. Bret also used to be very lively with a fun personality so I could look past the excessive ink, now it seems like he has to work up an effort to even say anything.
    Zane gave the site its personality and always served well as its communicator. I cancelled my membership and will take a wait and see approach. The first video posted since this "announcement" is not a promising for the future.

  43. #993
    JUB Addict Hellax24's Avatar
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    Re: AustinZane.com UPDATE

    Whoever bought the site is already ruining it. The newest update is a huge "WTF". How did they go from being a site that featured college aged men to daddies such as Mitch Vaughn? The site was a breath of fresh air for porn and now it looks like it is going in a very different direction and using the same over used models, not to mention those that this site was not meant to feature. The members it seems will be leaving in droves. So Sad it had a great concept and now seems ruined.

    CXXX
    http://www.justusboys.com/forum/signaturepics/sigpic308529_2.gif

  44. #994

    Re: AustinZane.com UPDATE

    Quote Originally Posted by LuvFindsAndyHardy View Post
    jungle red!!!
    For the uninitiated:


  45. #995

    Re: AustinZane.com UPDATE

    partially off topic

    I have to thank a couple of jub posters (LuvFindsAndyHardy and Phunk) for pointing me to the best video I watched this weekend. After spending $10 to purchase a couple of so-so porn videos (cfs), I spent $10 on iTunes to watch “The Women” (1939) – of Jungle Red fame. It was excellent (better than "Aiden & Chandler under the sheets").

    Although sometimes I think some of us feel like little Mary in “The Austin Zane Story,” it remains to be seen how much, if any, similarity there is between az’s story and “The Women”. Zane’s book should help answer some of these questions. At least a lot of the action happened in the right state if not the right city (LV, not Reno). Substituting an all male cast for an all female cast works. And some of the dialog seems appropriate for a gay porn studio. I can’t even decide who to cast as Mrs. Steven Haines, let alone what role Chi-Chi should have.

    There are several good clips from this film on YouTube as well as the original trailer. Don’t confuse the 1939 original with the 2008 remake, which was largely panned by reviewers and film-watchers.

    For more information about this film:

  46. #996

    Re: AustinZane.com UPDATE

    "The Women" usually tops the list of the gayest movies ever made, finishing even before Baby Jane. There are no men in it -- not even the dogs ("there's a word for ladies like you . . ."). That opening montage in the 5th Ave Salon (or what would today be called a 'day spa') is brilliant! Also the technicolor fashion show interlude (fyi Adrian was apparently very straight). It's a miracle that movie made at the height of the Hayes Code got away with Joan's famous last 'kennel' line.



    I've seen little clips of the 2008 remake with Meg Ryan in the Norma Sheerer role. Don't bother. Too painful.

    Bringing this back-to-topic, who in the Austin Zane stable would play the Rosalind Russell role? It really is her movie.

  47. #997
    The Boy Next Door LuvFindsAndyHardy's Avatar
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    Re: AustinZane.com UPDATE

    Quote Originally Posted by PhunkSpunk View Post
    (fyi Adrian was apparently very straight)
    You're kidding right? You basing that on his marriage to butch Janet Gaynor? Can you say "New York marriage?" hahahahahah.

    One of my favorite movies EVER! The dude ranch catfight between Roz Russell and Paulette Goddard alone is worth ten times more than the whole remake ("Did you ever see a horse LAUGH?")

  48. #998

    Re: AustinZane.com UPDATE

    JR's momma let girls dine on her fine fin and haddy?!

    "Bret" is Marjorie Main.

  49. #999
    The Boy Next Door LuvFindsAndyHardy's Avatar
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    Re: AustinZane.com UPDATE

    Quote Originally Posted by PhunkSpunk View Post
    JR's momma let girls dine on her fine fin and haddy?!

    "Bret" is Marjorie Main.
    You're thinking of Janet's "good friend" Mary Martin.

  50. #1000
    Sex God pmgunnerxx's Avatar
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    Re: AustinZane.com UPDATE

    So Shame and Fortune is avail now.

    I'm only about a third of the way in and even with an idea of some of the stuff that would be in it I am blown away by some of the stories in it so far. I will give the heads up that names were changed for the book. I know there has been speculation about Austin and Zanes friendship, the former website and the current one. I can't say this will answer 100% of the questions out there but I do think this will shed light on some things that previously were not obvious to the public at large. I'm thinking of starting a seperate thread for Zane & book discussion (I would guess it would still be in the porn section or should it go somewhere else?). Wondering anyone else reading it or at least planning on it?
    Last edited by quasar; November 3rd, 2012 at 07:21 AM.

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